Eps 679: Executive Function in High School

Joyful Courage this week is about waking up in the morning and deciding I am going to be intentional with how I am moving through my day and how I intersect with all the twists and turns that are out of my control.

Resources mentioned:

• Eps 678: Executive Function, Middle School Edition (Joyful Courage Podcast)
• Eps 675: When Teen Grades Start Slipping (Joyful Courage Podcast)
• Eps 649: Teen Coaching with Anna Kashner (Joyful Courage Podcast)
• Bolster Coaching (Anna Kashner)
• Book an Explore Call (Casey O’Roarty, Sproutable)
• 2023 study on executive function development, ages 10 to 20 (Dr. Beatriz Luna’s lab, University of Pittsburgh)
• The dual systems model of the adolescent brain (Dr. Laurence Steinberg)
• ADHD and delayed brain maturation (National Institute of Mental Health)
• ADHD executive skills and the 30% rule (Dr. Russell Barkley)
• Rethinking Procrastination: Positive Effects of “Active” Procrastination Behavior (Angela Chu and Jin Nam Choi, Journal of Social Psychology, 2005)
• The Rs of Recovery (Jane Nelsen and Lynn Lott, Positive Discipline)
• The gradual release of responsibility (P. David Pearson and Margaret Gallagher, 1983)
• Transition planning in the IEP (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act)

Transcription

Intro
[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescence. This season of parenting is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth. And man, the opportunities abound. My name is Casey O'Roarty. I am a parent coach, Positive Discipline Lead Trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sproutable. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media. Rate and review us on Apple or Spotify. Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
Welcome back
[00:01:24] Hello, friends. Hi! Welcome back to the Joyful Courage Podcast for parents of teens and tweens, and sometimes young adults. Last week we were together for Episode 678, and I talked specifically to parents of middle schoolers about executive function.
[00:01:54] As promised, today I'm doing part two of that conversation, and this one is for those of you who are parents of high schoolers, kids who are a little further along in the season of adolescence. If you didn't catch last week's show, it's not a big deal. This one stands on its own. And if you've got younger kids at home as well, I'd encourage you to go back and listen to 678 when you can.
[00:02:23] I know a lot of you have kids in both places, middle and high school. You're really having the adolescent party in your household, and you're all welcome here.
[00:02:23] Here's who I'm imagining I'm talking to today. You, parent. You've been at this school thing for a while with your teenager. Maybe the homework conversations have been tough since middle school, and by now the dance has worn thin. You know the script, you know the routine. You ask about school, they deflect. You push, they shut down.
[00:02:47] Maybe you've got a teen who waits until the night before, that last-minute teen, and somehow is pulling things off. And it's exhausting to watch. Or maybe it doesn't get pulled off, and the grade portal is telling you that story again, the one you don't want to read anymore.
[00:03:16] A quick definition for anyone who's new. We're talking about executive function. Executive function is the set of skills our brains use to manage ourselves: to plan, to get started on things, to keep track of time, to keep track of stuff, to hold information in mind, to shift gears when something changes, and to step back and ask and assess, "How am I doing on this?"
[00:03:58] Here's the part that matters so much for parents of high schoolers, and I said this last week too. These skills are still being built. Your 16-year-old's brain is still developing, practicing, and leaning into these skills.
[00:03:58] Today we're going to talk about where high school kids actually are developmentally, what's really going on with the last-minute kid, how to repair and shift a dynamic that has perhaps gotten really tense, and how to start handing over the wheel, which is what this season is all about.
[00:04:38] It's annoying and hard to do for those of us who have spent so much time as our kiddos' external executive function system. It's important now to hand that responsibility over to them so they can really flex those muscles. And just like last week, I'm going to thread in some conversation about kiddos with ADHD through the whole thing, because so many of you are parenting kids with that diagnosis.
Where high schoolers are developmentally
[00:05:08] So let's get into it: where high schoolers are developmentally. Last week I shared about a 2023 study from Dr. Beatriz Luna's team at the University of Pittsburgh. They pooled data from more than 10,000 people and found that executive function grows in a fast burst between the ages of 10 and 15. From 15 to 17, it keeps growing a little more slowly, and it doesn't settle at adult levels until somewhere around 18 to 20 years old. We also know that the brain isn't fully developed until well into our 20s.
[00:05:31] So if you've got a high schooler, which you probably do since you're listening to this episode, you're parenting in those finishing years. The skills are still coming online, and they're going to keep coming online after graduation. At the end of this show, I'm going to share a real-life story from the trenches that happened just last week with my own kiddo and executive function skills.
[00:05:56] There's another piece of research I want to add today, because it explains so much about high schoolers. Dr. Laurence Steinberg and his colleagues describe what they call the dual systems model of the teen brain. One system is all about reward, excitement, and what feels good right now. It's very present moment. This system gets really revved up in adolescence, and it peaks in the late teen years.
[00:06:43] The other system, the one that's still in development, is cognitive control: the part that plans, that holds back impulse, that thinks about later. That one grows slowly and steadily into the early 20s.
[00:06:43] So picture these two systems as a car with a powerful gas pedal and brakes that are still being installed. That's your teenager. Reward and excitement right now are coming on strong. Impulse control, cognitive control, and thinking about the future are coming on a little slower.
[00:07:13] The pull of right now is stronger at this age, and that's not a character flaw. When they know their paper's due on Friday and still spend Thursday night online with their friends, again, it's not a character flaw. It's the part of the brain that's still catching up. It's the part that says, "Yes, I've got that paper, but right now my people are doing stuff and I have to stay engaged with my peers." The part of the brain that weighs later consequences and plans is still catching up.
[00:08:00] I don't say this to create an excuse for why our kids do what they do. It's information. It helps us stay curious and compassionate instead of asking, "What's wrong with you? Why can't you just follow through and do what you say you're going to do?" When we learn more about their development, we help ourselves be who they need us to be.
[00:08:23] Now here's the ADHD thread. Research from the National Institute of Mental Health found that in kids with ADHD, the brain matures in the same pattern as everyone else's, about three years later in some regions. They're still getting the same development. It's just delayed, happening a little more slowly.
[00:08:42] We talked about this last week too. Dr. Russell Barkley's rule of thumb is that executive skills in ADHD run about 30% behind age. It's a rough guide, and every teen is different. But do the math for a 16-year-old, and their executive skills might look more like an 11-year-old's: their ability to keep track of things, to plan, to organize, to assess, to manage time.
[00:09:04] Sit with that, because it changes the timeline. A lot of our ADHD kiddos are going to need scaffolding past high school graduation, into college or work or whatever comes next. Those of you who also have ADHD understand this. You have to create systems, routines, and practices that act as an external executive function system while that internal system develops. So planning for a long runway is realistic, and it's loving. It doesn't mean that they're failing, and it doesn't mean that you're failing.
Am I okay?
[00:09:26] As you know, I like to think about this through the lens of the intentional ecosystem. So we're going to start this conversation with you. Am I okay? What about me? How am I experiencing this?
[00:10:09] I want to talk about our attachment to how executive function should look. Most of us have a picture in our head of what a good student looks like. We just do. They write down the assignment. They start on things early. Maybe they chip away a little bit each night and turn things in a day ahead. That's a good student.
[00:10:34] And when our teen doesn't look like that picture, and I didn't have teens who looked like that, we decide something's wrong with them. They're not learning what they should be learning. They're not showing up the way they should be showing up. There's something to fix.
[00:10:34] So let's look at this through the last-minute kid, the kiddo who turns things in at the last minute, because I have a lot of clients whose teens operate this way. They wait until the last minute, and then they pull it off in the end. That's their operating system. And it's so painful to watch.
[00:10:58] I want to say something that might surprise you. Pulling things off at the last minute is a skill in and of itself. There's research on it. In 2005, two researchers named Angela Chu and Jin Nam Choi published a study in the Journal of Social Psychology that drew a line between two types of procrastinators.
[00:11:31] Passive procrastinators put things off because they're stuck, overwhelmed, or avoiding. Active procrastinators make a deliberate choice to wait because they work better under pressure. Here's what the research found. The active procrastinators delayed just as much as the passive ones, but on things like using their time on purpose, believing in themselves, and how they actually performed, they looked a lot more like the people who didn't procrastinate at all.
[00:11:31] Now, other researchers have pushed back on how rosy that picture is, and I don't want you to hear the message, "Just let them procrastinate, it's great." We still want our kids to expand beyond that one operating system, because the last-minute push has costs: sleep, stress, and no room to get anything wrong. If we're studying at the last minute, we're not really retaining what we're learning for the long term.
[00:12:10] What I do want you to hear is that there's a real question underneath the behavior. Is my kiddo choosing the pressure because it works for them? Or are they avoiding because they're overwhelmed and don't know where to start? Those are two very different kids, and they need different things from us.
[00:12:33] If your kiddo has ADHD, that's one more layer. Dr. Barkley describes ADHD brains as living in "now" and "not now." When the deadline is far away, it doesn't feel real. When it's tomorrow, it finally lands: "Okay, shoot, I have to do this." A lot of the last-minute pattern lives right there, and judgment about it only makes things heavier for our teens.
[00:12:55] This is where fiercely committed, lovingly unattached comes in. We're fiercely committed to their growth, and we get to stay lovingly unattached to the exact form that it takes. That's your work.
[00:13:25] So here's a question to sit with: When I picture my teen as a student, whose picture am I using, theirs or mine?
Are we okay?
[00:13:25] Now we've gone from that outer layer, our own experience, into relationship. So let's talk about relationship. If you've been at the homework fight for years and years, the dynamic has probably set in, and I want to invite you to take an honest inventory of the energy you've been bringing.
[00:13:54] Has it been frantic? Has it been judgmental? Checking the portal three times a day, leading with what's missing, leading with what they're not doing well? You get to name this. Name it to yourself first. This is the part that takes courage. It takes courage to recognize how we have actually been influencing the dynamic with our kiddo. But this is also the place where things can start to change.
[00:14:16] Last week I said I'd come back this week to talk about repair. You've heard me talk about repair before, but I'm going to review. In Positive Discipline, we use something called the Rs of Recovery. Jane Nelsen and Lynn Lott teach it in four steps.
[00:14:36] The first step is to recognize that you made a mistake. You recognize that you've contributed to the dynamic, and you do it without beating yourself up: "Well, here we go. I've actually been a part of this. I've been bringing a certain kind of energy that hasn't been helpful." Then you take specific responsibility for your part. After taking responsibility, you reconcile, which means you apologize. So: recognize that you influence the dynamic, take responsibility for it, reconcile, and then resolve it by working on a solution together.
[00:14:58] With a teenager, it could sound like this: "Hey, I need to talk to you. I'm realizing that I've been really on your case about school this year. Actually, I've been on your case about this for a long time, and I don't think it's been helpful. In fact, it's probably felt pretty judgmental and not like a useful support system for you. I'm really sorry about that. I want to figure out a better way to talk about school and support you in it. Would you be willing to think that through with me?"
[00:15:26] And then let it breathe. Your kid might shrug. They might roll their eyes. They might say, "It's fine," and leave the room. All of those are okay. You've planted something. Repair with a teenager is usually a process more than one conversation or one moment, and they'll be watching over the next few weeks to see whether your behavior matches your words.
[00:16:04] Are you pausing before talking about school? Are you showing up curious before judgmental? Are you wondering what their experience is? What are you shifting in your own behavior that creates an invitation for them to be willing to talk more about school with you?
[00:16:04] And if you're hearing this and thinking, "I don't even know where to start the repair in my house," that's exactly the kind of thing I love helping parents sort through. You know where to find me. You can book an Explore Call at besproutable.com/explore. We'll get on the phone, you'll share a little bit about your family, and we'll figure out what kind of support would actually help.
[00:16:31] Once there's a little more trust in the relationship, once there's more curiosity in the room, you get to create something new. What you get to create is a space where your teen gets to experience their own brain.
[00:16:58] You can ask questions like: "When do you work best? What helps you get started when you really don't want to? What's the hardest part? Is it hard to start? Is it hard to stay with it? Is it hard to finish? When you've pulled off a big assignment, what made it work? I've seen you pull things off. What was helpful that time?"
[00:17:15] This kind of curiosity grows their metacognition. Metacognition is the skill of stepping back and noticing how we think and how we process. It's one of the last executive skills to develop, and high school is a great time to start practicing it. Your neutral, nonjudgmental curiosity is the external metacognition that helps them begin to build those muscles. But first, we have to recognize what the relationship is like when it comes to talking about school and supporting them with these skills.
Does our house actually work?
[00:17:57] Now we're going to move a little deeper into the ecosystem and look at systems and routines. Does our house actually work? Let's talk about systems and routines and the big shift for high school: your systems become their systems.
[00:17:57] There's a framework teachers use called the gradual release of responsibility. It comes from two education researchers, P. David Pearson and Margaret Gallagher, back in 1983, and teachers often sum it up as, "I do it. We do it. You do it." In Positive Discipline, we call it taking time for training: you watch me, we do it together, I watch you, you do it on your own.
[00:18:23] First, the adult models the skill. You get to model the skills you want from your kiddos. Then you do it together, with the adult guiding. Then the student practices with support close by, and finally, they do it on their own. That's how teachers do it, and it's the same thing at home. The key is that the scaffolding comes down a piece at a time.
[00:18:45] So think about where your teen is on that path for each skill. Maybe for planning the week, you're still in the "we do," sitting together on a Sunday night while they map it out. Maybe you sit together and check the portal. That's awesome. Maybe they're ready for you to say, "Hey, we've been planning your week together. This week I want you to do it on your own and come show me."
[00:19:27] "Show me your system for this. What's your routine for checking which assignments your teacher has entered in the portal and which are still lagging? Do you know what's missing, or where you're behind? What's your system or routine for this?"
[00:19:27] They might say, "I don't know." Then you know: okay, this is something we're going to do together for a little while so that I can eventually hand it off to you. Each skill can be at its own stage, and the goal is to keep moving them toward doing it on their own before they launch, and getting out of the way.
[00:20:14] In practice, this means your teen designs the plan for schoolwork, for a big project, for finals and studying, and you review it with them. If they want to do homework at 9:00 with the music on and it's working, it might not be your hill to die on. If it isn't working, you look at that evidence together.
[00:20:34] Screens are a big part of this too. In Episode 675, I talk about agreements that protect time for school and sleep, so go back to that one if you missed it. With high schoolers, those agreements need to keep loosening as they show they can manage more, because in a year or two or three or four, there won't be anyone doing it for them. They're going to be off on their own, managing all of this.
[00:20:54] If your teen has ADHD, this is the time to help them build their own toolkit. Last week I talked about externalizing, putting information outside their head where they can see it. In high school, that becomes their system instead of yours: their own phone calendar, their own alarms, their own checklist. Help them experiment with what works for their brain, because they're going to take that toolkit with them.
What do I do right now?
[00:21:12] And then there's the in-the-moment. What do you do in the moment? What do you do this week? Start by asking before you advise. Always, always, always.
[00:21:31] One of my favorite in-the-moment tools is curiosity, asking before you advise. When your teen brings up something about school, stop before you do what you normally do. Instead, say, "Hey, is this something you want help with, or do you want me to listen?" And then honor their answer. That one question tells them you trust them to know what they need.
[00:21:52] If you've got that last-minute kiddo, try a debrief after the deadline passes. Wait a day or two, until everyone's calm, instead of doing it in the frantic moment the night before. Ask: How did that feel? What worked about doing it that way? What did it cost you? Did it cost you anything? Keep it neutral. Keep it curious. The goal is not to lead the witness. The goal is to help them notice their own pattern so they can decide whether it's something they want to keep.
[00:22:11] And know when to bring in support. Sometimes the relationship can't carry the mentoring right now, and that's okay. An executive function coach can be awesome. Back in Episode 649, I talked with Anna Kashner. She's an executive function and life coach for teens who works with people ages 14 to 26, so that would be a great place to start if you're curious about what coaching could look like for your child.
[00:22:52] There are a lot of other people working with teens on executive function as well. Sometimes outsourcing it, so that your whole job is to connect, have that one-on-one time, and be an enthusiastic supporter, is great.
[00:22:52] And if your teen has an IEP, here's something a lot of parents don't know. Under the federal special education law, transition planning has to be part of the IEP by the time the student turns 16, and the school has to invite your teen to the meetings where their goals after high school are discussed. So encourage your teen to go and to speak up. Advocating for themselves is an executive skill too, and they'll need it in college and at work. There are all these ways we get to encourage these skills as they develop.
A story from my own family
[00:23:34] I want to tell you a story before I wrap up today. I'm recording this on October 28th, and just last Friday I got to go see some live music with my girlfriend. It was really fun. I got in the Uber to go back to where we were staying, checked my phone, and there was a text from my son to our family group chat.
[00:24:02] It was very well written. I was really proud of him. It started off with, "I'm okay, I'm okay. Everything's okay, but I did get in an accident." It wasn't his fault. And that's the text no one wants to get. Just to remind you, my son will be 21 in a couple of days. He's a junior in college down in Arizona, so it felt very far away.
[00:24:25] I saw the text, got back to where we were staying, and FaceTimed him. He was fine. He was back at his apartment, and he told me how everything went down, what he did, and how he showed up. And I'll tell you what, it's hard to be so far away and not be able to swoop in and take care of things for him.
[00:24:44] He's having a full experience of leaning into his executive function skills. He's putting all of those skills to the test. He's engaging, he's following up, he's taking things into consideration, he's thinking about the future. He's having to navigate phone calls with lawyers and insurance and police officers. He's gathering information. He's keeping a paper trail.
[00:25:10] We're supporting him from a distance. My husband has been an amazing supporter for him, reminding him, "Do X, Y and Z." He's not doing it for him. Ian has to do the things. But it's incredible. Every piece of what he's doing to follow up after this unfortunate event falls under executive function skills: planning, prioritizing. It's a lot, and he's in school. He's holding all the details in mind. He's keeping his emotions steady enough to have the conversations with all the different people, and, like I said, following through on the next step and the one after that.
[00:25:37] And this is the same kid who was not a superstar in high school. The same kid I've told you about on the podcast, with all the tardy notices that came via text. All the things that felt like, "Ah, why can't you just be better at this?" And now here he is, 20 years old, being put to the test, and he's showing up for it. All the skills I didn't see a lot of, or consistently, in high school are continuing to be built and continuing to be practiced.
[00:26:25] Again, research says executive function settles in somewhere around 18 to 20, and here he is, nearly 21, using it when it really counts.
Wrapping up
[00:26:25] So all that to say, if you're watching your 16-year-old wait until the night before, if you're asking, "How are they ever going to handle life?", it's being built. The scaffolding you're putting up now is part of what they're going to stand on later. They will be able to handle their own life. It'll be wobbly, and they'll make mistakes, because that's developmentally appropriate.
[00:26:44] Here's what I want you to walk away with today. High school is your teen's journey, and the launch is close. Calm down. Take a breath. Pull your shoulders back. The scaffolding needs to come down piece by piece, and that's the point. When you're willing to let go, it can look a little wobbly. Your job is to help them understand and learn about how their brain works so that they can take that knowledge with them.
[00:27:29] If you've got a middle schooler at home too, like I said, go back to Episode 678 and listen to that one. We talk about building the scaffolding in the first place, and it pairs really well with this episode.
[00:27:29] I know I've already mentioned this, but if you want support, if you want someone to help you sort all this out and tease it apart, book an Explore Call with me at besproutable.com/explore. We'll get on the phone for 20 minutes. I'll hear a little bit about your family, and you'll see if working together is a good fit. I'd love to talk with you.
[00:27:52] The kids are all right. The kids are all right. Thank you so much for being here today. I hope you took away a lot of nuggets from this episode. I appreciate you. Like I said, take a breath, pull those shoulders back, and find that confident authority. You've got this. I'll see you next week.
Outro
[00:28:25] Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sproutable partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you, Danielle, for supporting with the show notes, as well as Chris Mann and the team at Podshaper for all the support with getting this show out there and making it sound good.
[00:28:25] As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass this episode on to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content. Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids of all ages, and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at besproutable.com.
[00:29:02] I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.