Eps 653: Exploring teen cannabis use with Susan Notis

“Joyful courage for me means feeling confident in my own inner wisdom so that I can be there for others, for my family, but also for the families I help so that they can find joy and peace and love and connection. That brings me joy.” — Susan Notis

Resources Mentioned

• The Perfectly Imperfect Family — Susan’s bestselling co-authored book
• “The Silent Epidemic: Teen Marijuana Dependency” — Susan’s chapter in the upcoming parenting anthology (which Casey is also part of)
• Susan’s website: inbalancelifeandparentcoaching.com
• Susan’s free guide: Leading Through Cannabis Dependency
• Susan’s coaching program: Leading by Example
• The Invitation to Change model / facilitator program
• Beyond Addiction (book referenced by Casey)
• Hopestream Community (Brenda Zane’s resource for parents of kids with substance use challenges)
• HALT acronym: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired (+ S for Stimulated/Stoned)

Contact Susan at [email protected] if you are interested in joining a support group specifically for parents concerned about their child’s cannabis use.

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescents this season of parenting. Is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years. And continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] Hi everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. We are gonna have a very important conversation happening today on the show, and I know that many of you are navigating this challenge. Here's what I know about parenting through something. Scary Information is only part of what we need. The other part is learning how to stay grounded in ourselves when everything in us wants to control.
[00:01:50] Or fix or fall apart. Today's guest talks about teen cannabis use, and she does it in a way that holds the facts and the parents' inner experience at the same time. This episode, per usual, is going to be real and practical, and I think really reassuring to you parents. Susan Notice is a certified parent coach and bestselling co-author of the perfectly imperfect family.
[00:02:17] With over two decades of experience supporting children and families, she brings an integrative whole family lens to helping parents stay grounded and connected, even while navigating high stakes challenges like teen cannabis. Use dependency. She's the author of the chapter, the Silent Epidemic Teen Marijuana Dependency, and an upcoming Parent Anthology Parenting Anthology that I get to be a part of too.
[00:02:44] More to come about that soon. I'm so glad to have you on the show. Welcome, Susan.
[00:02:50] Susan Noris: Thank you for having me, Casey. I'm so happy to be here with you today.
[00:02:54] Casey O'Roarty: Yes. You've spent over two decades working with families and you've written specifically about teen cannabis use, which is not a light topic to take on.
[00:03:06] The teen years in general feels messy and risky to be any kind of, you know, wear any kind of like influencer, expert educator hat. Um, what drew you to this work and what perspective do you bring to it that feels unique?
[00:03:24] Susan Noris: So in my work with parents, I was starting to see a pattern of parents coming to me and having their children have symptoms of cannabis use disorder.
[00:03:41] They thought that their children were just engaging in some innocent teenage behavior, and the symptoms that they were seeing were becoming. To the point where they were having a lot of fear, anxiety, that their child's health and wellbeing was going to be affected for the long term. And what I think was the hardest thing that I was hearing was they were feeling very disconnected from the culture that is in our world right now, that cannabis use is safe.
[00:04:20] It helps us relax. Helps people treat medical conditions. So this culture of, you know, it's just. Weed. They felt very much disconnected from what the world is experiencing and what they're experiencing at home. And so there was a real lack of support around this and I think that there's, luckily, there's a lot of resources now on teen substance abuse, but.
[00:04:55] I feel like cannabis use is its own little separate entity because of this culture in our world right now. So. Just feeling like this heartache for families who are experiencing this. I think parents can start to feel like really disconnected from even their own parental intuition. Their gut, like they know something's wrong and the world is saying it's just weed.
[00:05:24] Mm-hmm. So it can become a very, very difficult time for parents and what I am offering to parents from my parent coaching. Is, how can we trust that gut parental intuition again, how can we meet the needs of our child while they're experiencing an addiction to a substance? Because it is. How we meet them is different than how we are even meeting a normal team.
[00:06:01] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:06:01] Susan Noris: So, yeah. I think also, you know, my model is a little bit different because I do work through an integrated, integrative holistic model. We're not just looking at our mental and emotional life. We are looking at where is this being stored in our bodies? Hmm. How can we support our children? On the whole, one of the things I'm doing a deep dive on it right now is supporting the senses and not just five senses, but 12 senses and.
[00:06:37] How we can nurture those things. Mm-hmm. Because they might not be things that were nurtured in our children's lives as they were a child, because so much is being changed. So much is different now.
[00:06:49] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:49] Susan Noris: In this social media culture and Yeah. Screen culture that we live in. And so yes. It's just this, it's more of a whole,
[00:06:58] Casey O'Roarty: yeah.
[00:06:59] Susan Noris: Holistic view that I think is maybe a little bit different than just. Putting band-aids on, or just finding ways to communicate. And so looking at the whole,
[00:07:09] Casey O'Roarty: I talk a lot and we talk a lot about this, and positive discipline is the iceberg metaphor. And what I'm hearing you talk about is not just. How do we get our kids to stop?
[00:07:19] But really looking at what's under the surface. And I'm glad that you brought up screens 'cause it seems like this time and space is, there's a few things happening, right? There's the screen addiction, the social media influence, and the up level in potency of cannabis. 'cause I mean, I'm gonna be honest, when my kids were younger and were experimenting, I was like, well.
[00:07:47] I'd rather they were getting stoned than getting wasted drunk, you know? And there was a lot of like my own, I don't love that they're doing this, but it's better than this other thing. And you know, full disclosure as well, we are a family where the adults do engage in cannabis use, you know, it's legal and it is something that on occasion.
[00:08:10] Is, you know, shows up in our house. And so that was also like, oh God, how do we be this way? And still doesn't feel like the right model. And so it is messy. And I just wanted to say that out loud because I want the people who are listening to feel seen and heard inside of that. It is really messy and I'm excited to hear more about your.
[00:08:34] Process of working with people. I think parents also are operating on some outdated information. So can we talk a little bit more about how today's cannabis is genuinely different from our generations? Cannabis. 'cause I was in college and I remember if we wanted to pay a little extra, we could get this, we called it the sexy mey, which was mm-hmm.
[00:08:58] You know, a little bit better weed, but still nothing compared to what is being sold today. So can you help us understand better and why it matters for us to, as we think about our teens and their use,
[00:09:13] Susan Noris: so. In the chapter, I do a deep dive on the science behind it and a lot of statistics, but I'll boil it down to a few important ones.
[00:09:23] The levels of THC and marijuana has gone from. Two to 4% in the nineties when maybe some of us were growing up.
[00:09:34] Casey O'Roarty: Yep.
[00:09:35] Susan Noris: To 15 to 25% now, and I am not just talking in street weed. I'm talking even about the weed that is being sold in dispensaries.
[00:09:47] Casey O'Roarty: I thought it was even higher than that.
[00:09:49] Susan Noris: It may be. I don't know.
[00:09:51] It may be like we're trying to talk about this a little bit more and there are new studies coming out. Frequently now.
[00:09:58] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:59] Susan Noris: I'm so happy to see this. Even the New York Times recently has really had to step up and they apologized for their approach to reporting on cannabis, and they're seeing now through studies that, oh, we need to think about this a little bit differently.
[00:10:18] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:18] Susan Noris: Because the science is coming out on a fast pace, so it could be even higher than the 25%, but. Why those numbers are important is because our teenagers don't have the part of their brain developed where they can. Thoughtfully go through and make clear decisions. Mm-hmm. And so they're, so that's the pre-frontal cor cortex, and then the part where they're operating from is the amygdala.
[00:10:52] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:52] Susan Noris: And that's the feeling part of the brain. Right. So THC makes. Children feel good, and what happens when they are repeat putting this in their body is because they're operating from this feeling state. What feels good is being repeated and repeated and repeated. And that develops pathways that lead to dependency on the product to feel good.
[00:11:23] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:23] Susan Noris: So some other statistics that might be helpful for parents to hear is we are at a place where one in six teenagers develops a cannabis use disorder and ER visits are rising 90%. Of ER visits for teens and young adults, ages 15 to 24 are because of cannabis use and symptoms that come from cannabis use.
[00:11:57] So really some of the concerning behaviors if parents haven't yet. Had the experience of their children experimenting with marijuana yet, or using it on a regular basis. Some of the really concerning ones are people are seeing psychosis. Mm-hmm. Their children are having psychosis, psychotic breaks.
[00:12:18] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:18] Susan Noris: Some are even having signs of schizophrenia. Long-term use is now. Being proven to lead to schizophrenia. In some people, they are having a lot of gastroenter, gastro GI problems. Uhhuh one of them is a very severe vomiting hyper menis disorder. Yeah. And. The vomiting can be very concerning, especially because I talk about this term in the chapter Riting, because when they're vomiting it is also a very painful experience, and they are shouting at the same time.
[00:12:59] They're what? So it's this shouting.
[00:13:01] Casey O'Roarty: Okay,
[00:13:03] Susan Noris: so they're screaming. It almost sounds like a screaming.
[00:13:06] Casey O'Roarty: Ugh.
[00:13:07] Susan Noris: Vomiting at the same time. And so I have heard some parents say that that was the breaking point for me. I couldn't, I could not hear my child do this anymore. And it can become like a daily thing. Hair loss.
[00:13:19] One way to get through to the teens sometimes is like understanding like, oh, you're seeing that hair in your. Shower.
[00:13:29] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:30] Susan Noris: Because you're losing your hair. So there's a lot of symptoms that are very concerning and you know, people are ending up in the hospital or these things.
[00:13:41] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. I have a real good friend who's an ER nurse who's shared some of this with me.
[00:13:46] Mm-hmm. Especially around the psychosis and the kids that are coming in that can't stop purging. It's really scary. It's
[00:13:53] Susan Noris: very scary.
[00:13:54] Casey O'Roarty: So. And I feel like that kind of answers my next question is what are, what are the indicators that, you know, your kiddos have moved past that experimentation into something that deserves more attention?
[00:14:07] I think it all, you know, even as I say, that's something that deserves more attention, I think, you know, and hearing you talk about that limbic system, part of the brain and how it is more developed than the prefrontal cortex, and I really want everybody to hear that they've heard me. Say it before, but their novelty seeking and decision making is developed quicker.
[00:14:35] You know, impulse con, you know, I impulse impulsivity, right?
[00:14:39] Susan Noris: Yes.
[00:14:40] Casey O'Roarty: Quicker than their risk assessment. So, and you know, reminding everybody that teenagers aren't, you know, if they're thinking like, oh, I could get in trouble for this. Actually many of them. The next thought is, but I probably won't. Mm-hmm. And so they are making some pretty significant choices in that moment, operating from that limbic system.
[00:15:03] So that's part of the teen brain development. And we talk a lot here, Susan, about relationship and openness and I think a lot about critical thinking. And while I do, you know, would rather that my teenagers. Not make some of the choices that they were making. I also, what was even more important to me is that they were learning how to think critically about the choices that they were making and if there was anything that they were doing on any kind of regular basis, you know, let's talk about what is your relationship?
[00:15:41] To that what, you know, how do you know when it's, you know, getting ahead of you or getting in the way of your life? And these are the same questions that I'm asking them now as college students, you know, who are doing really well and I don't have a lot of concerns. Mostly because they are open and honest and willing to, you know, regularly endure.
[00:16:06] Mom saying, so how is your. Relationship with partying these days. I mean, I have one kid at a, at the University of Arizona, which is where I went, which was a giant party school, still is, and another one that, you know, less so, but their willingness to talk to me is one of the ways I feel like has been a huge deterrent for things becoming, you know, super problematic, you know?
[00:16:36] Here's what I see and I know my relationship with my kids is unique to my relationship with my kids and we're not all there. And hindsight is 2020 as well. Mm-hmm. Where there are a million things that I would do differently. Yes, yes. But one thing I wouldn't do differently is just really nurture a space where they feel like they could, you know, be honest and, and talk to me.
[00:17:00] And
[00:17:00] Susan Noris: Absolutely.
[00:17:01] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And you know, I feel like we can have all the right information. I know for me, I had moments of this, right? I can have all the right information and still feel really frozen. Right? Fear is real, especially as our kids tip into, you know, behaviors that are. Clear indicators that our spidey senses are like, what's happening?
[00:17:21] This is like a bad after school special, what's going on? And one of the ways that we take care of ourselves as parents is to minimize and to talk ourselves out of our intuition and our fear because it's just so much to sit with and it feels so big. What's happening for parents internally when they're in the middle of this experience?
[00:17:47] Why does that interstate matter so much, do you think, for parents to be considering?
[00:17:52] Susan Noris: Yeah, so I agree with just about everything you said and yeah, the fear is very real and why it's so important for us to be in touch with our own emotions and around this and. Addressing our own emotions in a healthy way.
[00:18:13] Mm-hmm. Is because our children are sponges. I know that we talk about this a lot in the early years of a child's life, especially that we need to be somebody who our child can imitate. But I really think. It lasts for their entire childhood. We are their model, and it is a little bit like the theories of quantum physics.
[00:18:43] What we give out, we're gonna give back. And so if we are in a place of fear and overwhelm. We are not going to be seeing back the kinds of things. The relationship is just not going to be what we're looking for and what we need to see in a relationship in order to influence change in our child. So yeah, it's all those things of.
[00:19:11] Being in touch with ourselves and grounding ourselves and being able to regulate our nervous system so we can respond to our children in a way where they feel safe.
[00:19:24] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:24] Susan Noris: And comfortable to be in communication with us. Yeah. Is really important. Yeah.
[00:19:39] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. I think about how unintentionally we can show up in that space, and it's energetically, our kids now have to take care of us because we're so freaked out, you know?
[00:19:54] Susan Noris: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:55] Casey O'Roarty: And they're already holding. Everything that's happening under the surface of the iceberg. And so it just adding to that weight.
[00:20:07] And you know this, the flip side of that, you know, is, and listeners, I'm pulling back my shoulders and I'm opening my heart and I'm imagining the experience that a teenager has when the parent comes in and is. We got this. Like I've got this, I've got you. I can take care of myself. Yeah. This completely freaks me out.
[00:20:33] Let's be emotionally honest with our people and the foundation is rock solid. Like the difference in our response, you know, can completely change the shared space and really develop opportunity for our kids to be. Honest with themselves, which I think that's the most important piece, right? Like we all wanna hear what we wanna hear for sure.
[00:21:00] And hearing what we wanna hear is not the same thing as our kiddos. Being able and willing to say, I have a problem. This, I can't stop this. This is taking over my life. I need help. I'm scared. I'm ashamed. I'm guilty. Being with those things when they've had this tool. To avoid all those things. Right.
[00:21:22] Really quick and easy. Mm-hmm. And, mm-hmm. Yeah. So I appreciate that. And, you know, with our, let's talk a little, so there's the parent experience, which listeners, you know, I've got, you know, endless shows about navigating our own emotional experience. Let's talk a little bit about just the relationship with our kiddos because.
[00:21:46] You know, we can give all the information. We can lecture for days, we can send the blogs, we can send the research, we can try to punish them when we find out they're continuing to use. We try to control the situation for our own. You know, sense of security and none of this is useful. None of this is useful.
[00:22:09] Mm-hmm. I know that there are temperaments that respond in a way that makes us feel better. Like there's a temper, you know, there's some kids whose temperamentally that are willing to, you know, comply with the right. Mm-hmm. Consequences and rewards. At what cost? That's a whole nother podcast, but most of our kids, this is not what's gonna be helpful.
[00:22:33] And so what is the research and your experience and your practice of working with families? Actually say, influences change in a teenager who is misusing cannabis?
[00:22:48] Susan Noris: Right. So the research shows, and in my experience, that lasting change is only going to happen when your child is motivated from within. They have to want the change.
[00:23:07] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:07] Susan Noris: And so that makes us approach it in a different way. It's more about supporting. The things in their life that are going to build up their life forces so that they are in a place where they can identify what is going on the deeper level and they can then reach out for help. So this situation really.
[00:23:42] Makes us step away from all the things that we maybe intuitively or instinctively want to do. Like share all the information. Yes. And lecture about all the things we're learning in the research. There's a time and a place where we can share those things, but a child needs to be open to it. And so how do we nurture?
[00:24:09] Oh, that space where they feel like they can listen to what we have to share. It's really going back to the basics of almost like how did we nurture our 3-year-old? Mm-hmm. I mean, I really have been doing this thinking and like, wow, we just have to approach them with warmth. You know? Yeah. It's like dropping the harsh, reactive kind of communication and how can we come to them and have this kind of, even the tone of our voice is like, I love you.
[00:24:50] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:51] Susan Noris: And. You know, just this warmth that just makes them feel safe and comfortable. So I know that's like an easier said than done, and it's hard to put into words sometimes, like what exactly that looks like, right? Yeah.
[00:25:06] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and it's so annoying. It's just annoying that it's so like. Long game, you know?
[00:25:13] Right. Well, it's interesting because I had so many clients who were coming to me and one of the challenges that they were having is that their kiddo was using marijuana, and I feel very solid in my foundation of positive discipline and the tools, but I was a little uncomfortable. I needed to know that how I was supporting the parents like lined up.
[00:25:39] Basically with what was happening in the substance abuse support world, and so I actually did go through the Invitation to Change facilitator program. And I was so relieved to know that it is. So, there's so much overlap with positive discipline and the tools and the strategies and the mindset. And as I supported parents, I remember one, there's a book called Everyone that's called Beyond Addiction that's really useful.
[00:26:10] And I had one of my clients say, oh my gosh, I can't, I can't stand that book because it doesn't make it stop Like she was. Really like, I just wanna know what to do to make it stop. And I think what you're saying here and what we're talking about is there is no magic wand that change comes from within and there's no forcing that.
[00:26:33] But what I do appreciate, yeah. Like how can we be in relationship with our kiddos? And I think about, you know, any kind of risky behavior, any kind of. Behavior that we are not thrilled about. We become really hyper-focused and our teenager becomes that behavior. And I always try to encourage parents to remember they are a whole human being and there's all this other parts of them that we get to, like you said, nurture and remind them of and provide opportunities to lean absolutely into.
[00:27:10] And while substance use can definitely, and any kind of addiction really infiltrate a lot of that wholeness, it is not all of who our teenagers are.
[00:27:22] Susan Noris: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. That is one key thing is to notice the other good things that are there. And make them feel seen. Yeah. Seen for who they are outside of their use.
[00:27:38] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Susan Noris: I did read somebody recently who was an addiction counselor, which I am not, just to be clear.
[00:27:45] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:46] Susan Noris: For teenagers, and what they boiled it down to is many teens when they a, are asked, why do you use. They say, I am longing for, there's this longing, and I feel like this is like this, almost these soul forces that in their body that are just not feeling fulfilled.
[00:28:12] So these are the things they say that they're longing for. Connection.
[00:28:15] Casey O'Roarty: Yep.
[00:28:16] Susan Noris: Warmth and intimacy. Not the intimacy that comes from. A romantic relationship, like physical intimacy. Mm-hmm. The intimacy of just the warmth between
[00:28:27] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:28:27] Susan Noris: Two people, right? Yeah.
[00:28:28] Casey O'Roarty: Yes.
[00:28:29] Susan Noris: Um, common peace. Common peace for children who are navigating neurodiversity.
[00:28:36] Okay? They're in a world that is so hard to navigate with their neurodiversity, and they can come home and find calm and peace finally, from cannabis use. So, and. Other things were a sense of purpose. They were, you know, they've had a longing for purpose, you know, right now, like in teenage years, all their, I watch my 17-year-old and I'm like, she's just this like kid who just constantly studying and doing all the things to get into college, but really where's her purpose in that, right?
[00:29:19] Yeah. Like we need to. Find purpose in life and it does develop over time, but they are longing for that. It is part of becoming a teenager and what are we doing to support that, you know?
[00:29:30] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:29:30] Susan Noris: So, and one of my, my favorite things to think of when they're longing for something is longing for exhilaration.
[00:29:41] Casey O'Roarty: Oh yeah. Novelty.
[00:29:44] Susan Noris: Right. So how do we take all those things they're longing for and find other ways of nurturing them outside of the cannabis?
[00:29:53] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:54] Susan Noris: So, you know, all that healthy risk taking kind of behaviors that can happen for teenagers. Get them out there doing that. You know, like provide them with opportunities.
[00:30:08] Yeah. Like we're gonna go to the ski mountain, you know? Yeah.
[00:30:11] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:30:11] Susan Noris: You know, there's just ways of nurturing all the things that they're longing for.
[00:30:16] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:17] Susan Noris: In the ca that they're finding in the cannabis.
[00:30:21] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:30:21] Susan Noris: You know?
[00:30:22] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And I mean, when you list off all those things, if there was a pill that could bring me all of that, give me the pill.
[00:30:27] Right. Like it makes sense. And that's something that I really appreciate about both the Invitation to Change program and the positive discipline work is this idea that behavior makes sense. Mm-hmm. Right. And oftentimes, you know, challenging behavior is a solution to a problem that we don't know about.
[00:30:51] Right. Right. And I think that those, absolutely, those two. Little mantras are really important to remember. And you know, if it feels impossible, you guys, it should, because our systems suck. Like finding purpose in a education system that is not child-centered, that is outdated, that is underfunded, you know, like it makes sense that our kids are.
[00:31:20] You know, some of our kids are lost. It also makes sense that some of our kids are enduring because temperamentally they've, you know, they're able to stay like, okay, I'll jump through the hoops. It's fine. Right. Whereas other kids are like, what are these hoops? Screw these hoops. Or you know, I mean, my daughter who's been on the show many times, you know, completely dropped out of high school and at the start of 11th grade it was too much.
[00:31:50] She was navigating probably some neurodiversity that we didn't know about as well as significant mental health challenges and had to just completely withdraw. From school, from the world. It was like this crazy reset. When the pandemic happened, I think it was her dad got her a T-shirt that said Socially distant before it was cool and it was actually really useful to her that everybody had to stop.
[00:32:19] Right, because I think that gave her a little bit of cushion to be with what she was moving through. But yeah, I mean, it makes sense that our kids are struggling. And I have a mantra that I really love, which was shared with me kind of off the cuff from a friend of mine, which is the idea of being fiercely committed and lovingly detached.
[00:32:43] I talk with parents about this idea. You know, I have no doubt about the fiercely committed part. You know, the people that come to me, the people that talk to me, I know that they are fiercely committed to their teenager. It's that lovingly detached from the outcome. Absolutely. Part that is so hard, and I feel like, you know, we forget that there's a whole range of possible outcomes, which Yes, includes the absolute worst ones.
[00:33:14] Includes the absolute ideal ones, but more than either of those is everything in the middle.
[00:33:22] Susan Noris: Yes,
[00:33:22] Casey O'Roarty: absolutely. Right. And so, mm-hmm. You know, I know that it can feel impossible when you're terrified. For your child's safety, how do you help parents be with like, you shared, you know, like this kind of longer game that does not include, you know, the, the, the quick fix, perhaps conditioned approaches that we are passed on to us parenting wise or even that we see out in the world, which again is that punishment, reward model.
[00:33:55] How do you help parents be with. Just the timeline of change.
[00:34:01] Susan Noris: Yeah. I think that when you do hear stories of the kids that were 15 and using, and it took them two years to accept help and now. They're in their twenties and they are thriving. You know, I do think hearing other people's stories can be really helpful so that you can step back and accept that this is a long process.
[00:34:35] I think that doing the inner work, I know that in invitation to change in that model, this, this is a big part of many substance abuse models, is the parent. Stepping back and doing their own work.
[00:34:52] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:52] Susan Noris: And I know that is so counterintuitive in so many ways, but when you're focusing on your work and they're seeing you doing your work, they can start doing their work too.
[00:35:06] Mm-hmm. And I wish there was a movie that we could have just on kids with cannabis use disorder to give parents hope. Yeah. Because. It is, it's very, very difficult to sit with the pain and the fear.
[00:35:23] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:24] Susan Noris: Over this long period of time that it takes to accept help and you need to, I think creating a support system is really helpful.
[00:35:33] Mm-hmm. I. Have been called to set up a, a support group for moms of teens that have cannabis use disorder.
[00:35:41] Casey O'Roarty: Do it. Susan, please do it. I'll send people to you. I have four that just came, popped in my brain.
[00:35:49] Susan Noris: Yeah, I, I think that just having that support. System is so important, and knowing that other parents out there are struggling in the day to day, and it is, I, it is very lonely.
[00:36:01] It can be very lonely. I have one client right now who just cannot get over the loneliness that she feels because everyone who she talks to is like, what It is just weed. What are you talking about? They might need to go to rehab. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So finding, finding some people and. Maybe I'll do this support group
[00:36:32] Casey O'Roarty: as I'm listening to you talk about that loneliness. You know, I think about kids with eating disorders. I think about just all sorts of different challenges that can come up during the teen years and how. We hang on so tight and one of the things that I try to remind people of is. Right now is a snapshot.
[00:36:56] We're in a snapshot of a long timeline of life. It doesn't feel long. It feels so urgent, like these year, like we gotta figure this out and we forget ultimately. We are our own people and our teens are their own people, and they're gonna continue to grow and develop and, and, and learn about themselves and, and learn about themselves in relationship to other people in relationship to substances and relationship to food and work, and, and it's really.
[00:37:30] Important, I think, to keep that in mind. And I get, because I experienced how it feels to, you know, drop into my own social media and seeing, I remember seeing, you know, all of my, the parents that I were, my, you know, the same, our kids were the same age and watching like all of the accolades and the graduations and the this and the that.
[00:37:55] Can feel like this is only happening in our family. Mm-hmm. And I just want anyone who's listening right now to know that is not true, first of all. Yeah. And that there are resources like Susan, like myself and Susan and I were talking before I hit record about the Hopestream community. Brenda's been a guest on the podcast and that's an incredible resource for parents whose kids are, you know, are in substance abuse disorder.
[00:38:25] Susan, if a parent finishes this episode and thinks, okay, I need to do something differently, what is one or two like explicit places for them to start? What does, you know, kind of leading with clarity versus fear actually look like on a regular afternoon? Where can they begin?
[00:38:45] Susan Noris: So on the idea of a normal day, you know, your child comes home, maybe you've gotten a phone call from the school that they skipped outta school early.
[00:38:59] And they stroll in and they smell like weed and you're just bubbling under the surface.
[00:39:06] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. I can
[00:39:07] Susan Noris: feel
[00:39:07] Casey O'Roarty: it in my belly just having you say that.
[00:39:10] Susan Noris: You know, you're just like, really, the number one thing you can do is take space. When you're at that bubbling point
[00:39:20] Casey O'Roarty: mm-hmm.
[00:39:20] Susan Noris: Take space and walk away. 'cause if you cannot respond in a way that is calm mm-hmm.
[00:39:29] And loving.
[00:39:31] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:39:31] Susan Noris: It, it's this beast is one that you have to approach your children with warmth and Right. And with boundaries, like boundary setting is something I do with parents very much because having clear boundaries is also very important. So it's not like loosey goosey, oh, you're warm and you're loving loosey goosey.
[00:39:53] We're gonna drop all boundaries. But yeah, so I'm thinking of that Tuesday afternoon. You walk away and you allow space for both you to ground yourself, but also for your teen to be in a place where they can listen. And so, I don't know if you've heard the acronym halt?
[00:40:16] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:17] Susan Noris: But that is one that I have on my bulletin board and all this is.
[00:40:23] You don't approach a child for a meaningful conversation if they're hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And then I put an S on the end.
[00:40:33] Casey O'Roarty: First stone.
[00:40:33] Susan Noris: Uh, for first Stone. That's great. I love that. I, it really was originally for stimulated, like overstimulated for those neurodivergent kids you have. And somebody said to me once, well that's never like if I'm waiting for that to happen, that's never.
[00:40:52] But I think that I've had some very wise parents tell me that they sat with their child. Even in, you know, their child's asleep and stoned and wasted and they just plop themselves at the bottom of the bed with their computer to get their work done or whatnot. Mm-hmm. And they are awaiting the moment when their child is able to be present for conversation.
[00:41:21] Yeah. And,
[00:41:22] Casey O'Roarty: and what's an opening to that conversation? You're calm, their needs are met, this space is ready. What are some, like, what are some back pocket openers that listeners can take away from this conversation? Just to start to create a space that feels like healing can begin and that realness can show up.
[00:41:47] Susan Noris: One parent I was working with recently just felt like she had exhausted ways of communicating with her child.
[00:41:55] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:55] Susan Noris: And one of the things that I shared with her that I think she's finding success in is just stating, I love you and I want the best for you. Mm-hmm. And I am here to help you.
[00:42:13] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:14] Susan Noris: Get to be that person when you are ready and I am waiting for you.
[00:42:19] Just having that openness like you are not going to, so they know that you're not going to jump down their throat or scream and yell and be reactive. So yes, knowing how to communicate in a way, and I know that you work on this a lot with parents on your podcast. How to approach them so that they feel safe.
[00:42:46] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:47] Susan Noris: In coming to when they're ready. So that's one thing that I have found recently was helpful for a parent. And one other thing that you can do is approach from the back door. Like not even ask questions, not even state things directly about them.
[00:43:07] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:07] Susan Noris: Like use our own experiences and just like.
[00:43:13] Start blabbing like, oh man, I'm remembering a time when, oh my gosh, I did this thing and I was really scared and I was really there. And you kind of tell them about experiences you have had overcoming beasts in your life.
[00:43:28] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:43:29] Susan Noris: And. One mom said, my teenager doesn't wanna say anything back to me whenever I talk to them.
[00:43:34] Well, you can just blurt it out and it's out there.
[00:43:37] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:43:37] Susan Noris: And one of these days, perhaps you're riding in a car next to them side by side and they are like, oh no mom, you shouldn't have done it that way. And they wanna, you know, weigh in and conversations start to happen and, yeah. Planting that seed and it can grow from there.
[00:44:00] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. I think there's something really powerful about showing up in our own imperfection. You know, 'cause what you're talking about right now, it's living out loud, right? So it might be, hey, I'm noticing casually, right? I'm noticing that this thing is getting in my way. I think I'm gonna try to cut back, or I'm gonna try to stop.
[00:44:18] And man, it was really hard. I noticed this, I noticed that. And then move, turn, and burn like that doesn't need, you know, listeners, you've heard me say this. Sometimes we put things out and if there is an agenda, they will sniff it out. So part of that work too is just really working on strengthening our ability to be authentic, our ability to be neutral and like, you know, we talk a lot about curiosity and curiosity questions, not because it's a ploy, but because we're genuinely curious.
[00:44:53] And one of the things I remember saying to my kids. One of my kids was, you know, it seems like things are really hard and life shouldn't feel this hard and I love you. Right? And so appreciating, yeah, those small little drop-ins and really having faith and trusting the process and trusting yourself and trusting.
[00:45:16] You know, even, you know, our kids' own sense of self preservation, right? Like right now, self preservation is through unhealthy habits and behaviors and yes. It's a, it's movement towards self-preservation. So I think adding to being able to kind of add to the menu of options can also be really useful. Ah, this is, you guys okay?
[00:45:44] You're listening. I'm sure people are listening and they're like, Ugh, just tell me what to do and what to say. And I think that the fact that we haven't is a testament to how complicated this challenge is. So if you are feeling like. I needed more than this. I see you. I get it. I know I did too, and it's being inside of that discomfort.
[00:46:12] Getting more comfortable being in the discomfort, getting more willing to remind yourself, this is a long game. I believe in myself. I believe in my teen. I know that there's resources. All of that is gonna support you in being who they need you to be so that they can. Take those sometimes micro movements towards that internal desire to change.
[00:46:39] So thank you Susan, for coming on here and being willing to talk about this slippery tricky, you know, really hard topic. Do you have a free downloadable guide for parents somewhere?
[00:46:56] Susan Noris: I do. I have a free downloadable guide with some suggestions of things that can set you up for that moment where they want to accept change.
[00:47:06] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah,
[00:47:07] Susan Noris: it's called Leading Through Cannabis Dependency, and I have that, and then that is a lot of the work that I do in my ST coaching program.
[00:47:18] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:47:18] Susan Noris: Which is called Leading by Example, and it's just doing all this inner work that we're talking about. Yeah. In order for our children to model back to us Yeah.
[00:47:29] The things that we want to see in them. So if I could just also talk briefly before we close.
[00:47:36] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:47:37] Susan Noris: I wanted to just share there is this. Long span of time, often that it takes for the change to be wanted. I do want to just say, yes, be patient, but also know that if your child is really showing some severe symptoms that are very concerning, please, please.
[00:48:03] Seek professional help.
[00:48:05] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you. Yes.
[00:48:06] Susan Noris: And sometimes you just can't wait. They need help now. And I do want to say that there is unfortunately this marker of 18 years old that it's unfortunate, but we cannot send our children to treatment or keep them in treatment past the age of 18. They have to want it and stay there.
[00:48:32] But on their own. And yes, I am a firm, firm believer and let's get them wanting it before they go. But staying in treatment can be really hard, and that is almost the part that involves. That's helpful for you to have the say on whether they can come home yet. Mm-hmm. So it's not, I'm not putting this out there to for fear, but please, if there are signs that this is going to be physically something very damaging to your child mm-hmm.
[00:49:08] Their brain or their physical body, you know. There can be times where the waiting just can't happen, so reach out for help. I am not a certified addiction counselor and I, but I am happy to share resources with families if they need it for where you can go out for. The help that is needed in those emergency situations.
[00:49:32] Casey O'Roarty: Well, tell us where can people find you and follow your work and get the guide?
[00:49:35] Susan Noris: So hopefully you'll put in the show notes. I'll, but I'm gonna have
[00:49:39] Casey O'Roarty: you say it out
[00:49:40] Susan Noris: loud,
[00:49:40] Casey O'Roarty: but it'll be in the show notes for sure.
[00:49:42] Susan Noris: Yeah. In Balance Life and parent coaching.com. It's my website and there's a link to this resource as well as a few others for parents.
[00:49:53] Casey O'Roarty: Wonderful.
[00:49:53] Susan Noris: Yeah. I'm happy to connect with families. I offer free consultation if people just need an ear and, yeah. Yeah, because sometimes we just need the ear and that's okay. Even if you're not coming to see how I can help you with one of my programs, I am always. Happy to be an ear to somebody in this situation of struggling with the teen with cannabis use disorder.
[00:50:18] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And what does joyful courage mean to you, Susan?
[00:50:22] Susan Noris: Hmm. So, I think joyful courage for me means feeling confident in my own inner wisdom. So that I can be there for others, for my family, but also for the families I help so that they can find joy and peace and love and connection.
[00:50:54] Casey O'Roarty: Hmm.
[00:50:54] Susan Noris: That brings me joy.
[00:50:56] Casey O'Roarty: Yay. I love that. Thank you so much for spending time with me today and just peeling back all of these layers. I really appreciate you and I appreciate the work that you're doing in the world.
[00:51:09] Susan Noris: Thank you so much, and you as well.
[00:51:16] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you Danielle, for supporting with the show notes. As well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or.
[00:51:39] Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content. Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.