Eps 377: Deepening our Curiosity with Nancy Albright

Episode 377

My guest this week is Nancy Albright, a friend and fellow Positive Discipline Parent Educator.  

Nancy and I go way back, and I’m thrilled to chat with her today about deepening our curiosity with our teens.  She tells me about her new book, “My Teen and me: 20 meaningful questions to ease your frustration, build trust, communicate, and connect with your teen.”  We talk about how to stay curious with love & presence, and how to pull back on your fear & worries.  We cover the importance of pausing & explicitly asking your teen what they need – advice, help problem solving, or just someone to listen, as well as what to do when you’re met with irritation or withdrawal.  We wrap up touching on giving yourself love, compassion, & grace in your parenting and the power of presence.

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Takeaways from the show

  • Deepening our curiosity with our teens 
  • Curiosity with love and presence 
  • Pulling back on your fear and worries 
  • Pausing & asking our teens what they need – advice, help problem solving, or just someone to listen
  • Your needs vs. your teen’s needs 
  • Staying curious when your teen is withdrawn or irritated 
  • Creating a safe space for your kids 
  • Giving yourself love, compassion, & grace 
  • The power of presence 
  • Your story is not your child’s story

What does joyful courage mean to you 

Courage doesn’t mean that you have everything figured out.  It doesn’t mean that you’re not afraid.  I think it’s bringing those joyful moments when things are scary, looking at those little pockets of joy and being courageous in moving forward – that’s what joyful courage means to me. 



Nancy’s Book: My Teen and me: 20 meaningful questions to ease your frustration, build trust, communicate, and connect with your teen 

Nancy’s Website

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Nancy Albright, Casey O'Roarty

Casey O'Roarty 00:04
Hey, welcome to the joyful courage podcast a place for inspiration and transformation as we try and keep it together, while parenting our tweens and teens. This is real work people. And when we can focus on our own growth, and nurturing the connection with our kids, we can move through the turbulence in a way that allows for relationships to remain intact. My name is Casey already, I am your fearless host. I'm a positive discipline trainer, space holder coach and the adolescent lead. It's browsable. I am also the mama to a 20 year old daughter and 17 year old son walking right beside you on this path of raising our kids with positive discipline and conscious parenting. This show is meant to be a resource to you and I work really hard to keep it real, transparent and authentic so that you feel seen and supported. Today is an interview and I have no doubt that what you hear will be useful to you. Please don't forget sharing truly is caring. If you love today's show, please pass the link around snap a screenshot posted on your socials or texted to your friends. Together we can make an even bigger impact on families all around the globe. I'm so glad that you're here. Enjoy the show. Hi, listeners. My guest today is Nancy Albright. I'm so excited to introduce her to you. Nancy is a mom, a parent, educator, coach, author and TEDx speaker, who has been offering families workshops and support since 2013. She is passionate about helping ease parents frustration through creative ways and thought provoking questions that create connected and loving relationships with their teens. Hi, Nancy. Welcome to the podcast.

Nancy Albright 01:56
Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been a while. Yes, I

Casey O'Roarty 02:00
know. I'm so happy that you're here. Listeners, Nancy and I go way, way, way, way, way back in

Nancy Albright 02:07
2009. Yeah, I'm

Casey O'Roarty 02:08
trying to remember how did we first meet? What was it?

Nancy Albright 02:12
So I was searching, I think like online or something about parenting because my daughter Sadie was six months old. And yeah. 2009 and I found your workshop. And I was like, this woman sounds amazing. I really want to be the best mom, I can be because I lost my mom at 16. And so I was like, I want to do it. Right. You know, I want to learn all the things. So I took your class, my now ex husband and I took your

Casey O'Roarty 02:42
class. Was it in a church? Was it a workshop? I was I remember, it's like a group was in a church basement, right? I think seventh row. Oh my gosh, I'm having a flashback. Now. I remember a lot of wood. That was a long time ago.

Nancy Albright 02:58
Yeah. So now my baby Sadie is almost 14. So and it's thanks to you, though. So I'm so grateful for you and how you share your message and shine that light?

Casey O'Roarty 03:09
Well, I'm so thankful for you. Because 2009 I was only two years into my own journey of parenting and facilitating positive discipline. And I kind of cringe a little bit to imagine my facilitation way back in the early days. Thanks for hanging in there with me. Thanks for the amazing.

Nancy Albright 03:27
Like, when you don't know what you don't know, someone else who comes in with knowledge. It's just like,

Casey O'Roarty 03:35
right, good. Yay. Well, I'm glad that that was your experience. So we worked together. You know, we were both in the same town and we'd run into each other. I feel like you maybe jumped into other workshops of mine along the way, but talk about your personal journey of then not only being a student of positive discipline, but really going for it and folding it into what you were doing in the world.

Nancy Albright 03:59
Yeah, um, so like I said, I lost my mom when I was 16. And I know that's like a later age. But I wanted to be the best mom I could be because I didn't have mine. That was like my draw. So when I had Sadie and I took your course I was like, How can I learn this so that I can teach other parents to be great parents to understand how their kid is developing and so I don't know if I told you this. I took God oh my God MIDI. Who is now in this incredible source. I took her parent educator course for three days over a weekend in downtown Seattle. She was my trainer to Oh, okay, maybe you like recommended her property it seemed like so I took her course and then I just started you know, hosting workshops for parents. I started coaching parents, with the littles because I had like, I feel like I've coached as I go with mine. You know, it was not a teenager, but it was just to help other parents really understand In the frustrations of their little ones, or their middle schoolers or their elementary schoolers, you know, and it allowed me to really live that message for my own daughter, right? Because when you're teaching it, you can't like you got to practice what you preach. Yes. So it really helped me do that. And I'm continuing to do that, like, I read the books just for me, you know, your workshop was for me, like I was like I want to do for me, but then I was stuck. So

Casey O'Roarty 05:27
yeah, well, and I love that. Going back to what you said about how facilitating teaching strengthens our own personal practice. I remember, while I was the parent educator for a co op preschool years ago, as Rohan was moving into high school, and things started getting really hard and messy, and I was in my like, Oh, my God. And like showing up in front of these parents of toddlers and preschoolers and working really hard not to come across as like, you have no problem. Like, what do you even complaining about? Eat? They don't like anything that's not pasta or bread? Who cares? I've got real issue. Keeping together, you know, keeping it together? Yeah. And yeah, showing up for the parents that I work with now. And loving that, you know, we'll focus on things like our personal self regulation and self care and showing up with curiosity. And then immediately getting off my calls, walking into the room and having an opportunity to do exactly what we were just talking about with my own family. It's so powerful. And sometimes I'm sure that you have this do like, and sometimes I really mess up and I get to bring that I think we get to bring that to the people we serve to and I don't know about you, but I'm grateful to my family. I've said this a million times that they let me share. Because I think there's something really attractive to working with someone who is willing to talk about Yeah, I got really controlling. I messed up, I yelled, or I XYZ because ultimately, it's a human experience, isn't it?

Nancy Albright 07:20
Yeah, yeah. And I really believe that when we're vulnerable with our children, because we aren't perfect. Like, you know, I like to say that we've never well, I've never parented, this teen, or this toddler or this, whatever the age, they are, this moment, and this child, so it's brand new, right? And so being vulnerable with your kids, I have found, even with children like that I work with, it's they get vulnerable with me. And they feel that trust, right, the power of vulnerability, it's an opening. So it's so huge to be able to say, Hey, I made a mistake. I'm sorry. I'm not perfect. Please forgive me, you know?

Casey O'Roarty 08:00
Yeah, yeah. And holding space for parents to share their own vulnerability around like, this was a tough one, right? Being able to hold a space that feels safe for parents to be really honest about what's hard, as well as such an I love it. It's such a gift. You wrote a book? Yes, yeah. You wrote a book. So talk about this book that you've created, and what inspired you to write it? Tell us about the book?

Nancy Albright 08:31
Yeah, so it's called my teen and me. And what inspired me to write it was, you know, as working with kids all of these years, you know, I want parents to be able to have really beautiful relationships with their kids. And so I felt that, you know, what you taught me what I've learned from books, what I've learned from workshops, everything I've learned from different people on positive psychology, like all these years into 20 questions that parents can ask their kids to kind of be vulnerable and kind of diffuse some of these really tough topics. And so I was like, Okay, I signed up for this book course, you know, and I was like, Okay, I didn't know what I was going to write about. And I was like, Okay, send me something that, you know, I can talk about that I'm really passionate about and I was like, teens, you know, I talked to Sadie about it. Like what questions I talked to parents, I talked to different teenagers. So it's more like prompts that really helps parents. I feel like also look at their journey as teenagers.

Casey O'Roarty 09:36
Yeah. Well, and I love the way that your book is laid out, because it's like a workbook. It's so practical, you know. And while there are many books on my shelf that I have read some of slash most of slash, a little bit of write. It's so nice to pick something up. That is immediate. Practice. It's immediate practice. You know, and really focuses in on my favorite tool in the positive discipline toolbox, which is curiosity. Yeah, right. I mean, your prompts your 20 questions. So listeners, Nancy has really designed these questions to get below the surface of the iceberg, right? I talk a lot about the iceberg on the podcast, and we talk about, you know, I say, the top of the iceberg is like this blinking neon sign, like pay attention to me. And it's so hard to remember like, that's not actually where to go. That's an indicator to go deeper, and to find out what's happening with our kiddos, what dropping our assumptions and really finding out what's happening under the surface. And these prompts and these questions that you asked throughout the book, are such powerful starting points for people because you're really supporting and scaffolding that tool of curiosity. I think when we look at the world through curiosity, so much becomes available to us, like I said, dropping our assumptions, and getting curious about how our kids feel. And it's such a relationship builder. So talk a little bit about the tool of curiosity for you, and really your process of digging deep with these questions.

Nancy Albright 11:25
Yeah. So I love that I love that you asked this because I love curiosity. Because when you're curious if you're really curious, instead of you know how we get how moms we get, like, Well, did you blah, blah, blah, that's not gonna happen. That is not curiosity, right? It's all about the tone. I feel like curiosity also has to come with this loving tone. Right? Right. So curiosity allows you to be really present and listen to your child. You know what I mean? Yeah, because I know I do it. I nag. Sometimes I tell I'm like, do you remember this? Like, that's not curiosity. And we know this through positive discipline as well. Can you tell me more about that? Right? Yes, I know, like, and it opens a conversation. And if they don't want to talk, that's fine. While you can, I would love to talk about it later. Right. But curiosity, even not just in a relationship with teenagers, but your partner with friends, like, you come from a place of almost love instead of like, wanting to change something or a situation, it just gives you that present moment to learn more about your child, to see what you said, the iceberg what's going on underneath, you know, right? And if they're not ready, they know that you ask that. So at some point, they're gonna be like, Well, my mom asked this, like, Let me think about talking to her, or him or her, your dad, you know, whoever your caretaker is.

Casey O'Roarty 12:58
I love that. It's so we don't realize that we have an agenda all the time.

Casey O'Roarty 13:05
Sometimes we are just like, I asked questions, and they don't want to talk to me. It's like, wow, it's deeper. And I liked that you said, bringing that love and listening. I also think about, like, bringing our authentic self being willing to say, I don't understand or I'm scared or, you know, help me see what your experiences and really going after it as a way of building relationship. Yes. Also, I think we have this really unique opportunity to help our kids connect the dots, right? Because they might be engaging in behavior that we don't love. Or that, you know, the tip of the iceberg is like Alert, alert. And we get to ask questions that ultimately we hope, over time, become questions that they're asking themselves, like, how could the fallout of this be and am I okay with that? Right, or what are the risks here? Or how do I feel or what is getting in my way? Right? And I love that when we parents, and it is work. It's not just, you know, I mean, I'll speak I think for both of us, right? You know, like you already said, it's tone, but it's also like really getting clear on our why like, why am I asking this question? What am I hoping for here? And if I'm hoping that they get to my way of thinking, then it's like, okay, okay, good. Let's start again, because that's ultimately a leading question and they can sniff us out and I know Sadie's nearly 14 Yeah. Oh, she calls me. And as she gets older, it gets even harder because they are like, Listen, I've got your number and just Like, I've got your number, but like, I know who you are. Yeah. And it's obvious when you're looking for an answer. You know, it's obvious when you are looking, you know, and I say that to my son, especially because I think we have a dynamic where I have to be like, Listen, this isn't about what I want to hear. This is really about exploring what's going on for you. Like I have to be explicit around that. Yeah, to give him permission to let go of his mama pleasing tendency, which whatever we can. That's a whole nother podcast.

Casey O'Roarty 15:36
Yeah. So there is that work to and really pulling back our own layers, right of our fear and our worries. Your book is organized by different topics, right? So talk about how you chose where to get curious, with our kids. In your book.

Nancy Albright 15:56
I have my book here. So for each chapter for each topic, right? I chose topics that were really near and dear to my heart, like, losing someone you love, or like eating disorders, which is something that I dealt with for a really long time. What it does is it asks the question, and then it gives you kind of a prompt, but then I kind of share something like to think about, like with your child. So getting curious, you know, for example, like getting your help and support, right? It's like, do you need me to listen? Do you need suggestions? Or do you need my help? And then I go into this question gives us superpowers, right? Because you're not just assuming they need help. You know, sometimes my daughter's like, I'm like, Oh, let me help you with your homework or whatever. You know, I'm just assuming she's like, Mom, I got it. She's like, you don't you're not even that great at math.

Casey O'Roarty 16:46
By the way, let me humble, you're

Nancy Albright 16:49
just like, I got it, I can figure it out. So I kind of give, after asking the question, it's not just the question, but it's kind of giving you a guide as to why this question is so important. And then giving you a writing prompt like this one, it's how would you feel if your partner or your teen or your friends asked you this question, right? When they saw you struggling? Instead of jumping in to help you? What would you appreciate? Hey, do you need my help? To just want me to listen? Do you need my support, right? And you're like, Oh, okay. And my partner has done that with me, you know, and I've done that with Sadie. Not always, you know, my mom, and I still don't try to jump in and rescue because that's what we do. But it's really helpful. And so the whole book is laid out, it has 20 Different topic, you know, two questions to topic. And then I go into explaining why it's important, or what you can do. I give you resources, you know, like, you're one of the resources, you know, all these people who can go to someone else for help, because this isn't like your answers to every question you've ever had. Right? Right. It's this like, it's a catalyst to starting to ask those questions, those hard questions to

Casey O'Roarty 17:59
well, and what it really highlights is how powerful it becomes when we can explore and tease apart curiosity and language before we show up in front of our kids. Right? Because I think there's a tendency, you know, I feel it, I'm getting ever better in my practice at pausing. Hold on, is this the time, right? Pausing, and really thinking thrill? What I want to say and what I want to understand better, and what my internal experience and my emotional experience is of, you know, the topic or the conversation so that we can show up in a really regulated way. Yeah, and I love that you include the superpower question, because I talked about that on the pod too. And with my clients, and Rohan is been my guide in this, like, do you need me to listen? Do you want my opinion? Do you want to problem solve? What do you need right now? And sometimes I get like big eye rolls, you know, and that's fine. I get to do my own work of not being like, what?

Casey O'Roarty 19:16
Just trying to know how you need me to help. I get to check myself, but it is really useful and so deeply respectful to I think for our teens to get to become clear on what it is that they need from us. Right? What is it that they need from us? So I love that question. I think it's so, so powerful. And sometimes I will say, Well, let me tell you what I think and then I'll pause and say, oh, sorry, hold up. What do you need? So listeners, like if you're thinking like, Oh God, I always jump in with suggestions like it's okay. Just go back and pause and be aware and grow in your awareness and You know, ask them what it is that they need. And if you just can't stand it, and you have to let your feelings out, grab a piece of paper, grab Nancy's book, write it out, you know, because sometimes there is that need to release it. That's your need versus your teens need, right?

Nancy Albright 20:21
Yeah. Yeah. And I wanted to just say something like really encouraging parents. Because, you know, habits, it takes like, what is it 24 to 64 days to break, right? So if you're in the habit of constantly jumping in, right? It's just praying that pleasantness into that moment, and just be aware that you're doing that I think, for parents who like, or that you react, you know, yeah, instead of responding or reacting, it's like, you don't have to have it all figured out right? Now, you can just be like, Okay, I'm aware that I'm doing this and bring that again, present moment to how you're reacting to your child, and just make it a daily practice. And before you know it, you're going to be like, okay, pause. And then you're not gonna be perfect. Always. I mean, we get triggered our kids trigger us,

Casey O'Roarty 21:06
it only takes 68 days, everyone to stop being total fixer of your children. Well, maybe not. You know, I think if we can be an acceptance of this is a lifelong journey. And as soon as you feel like, Oh, I've got this, there'll be something new, a new person, a new developmental stage, a new challenge relationally that will invite you into even deeper practice of that. I have a good friend who said, you know, I wish it was linear, but it's not. It's like a spiral, right? And we keep bumping up against when we start to become aware and really dive into the work. It's like, okay, I've got this now I've learned that thing. And then we move around the spiral. And it's like, oh, here's that thing in a different package, in a different light, but again, inviting me into and for me, it's always like inviting me into surrender, inviting me into letting go, inviting me into recognizing that, while I have great ideas, everybody else seems to as well.

Casey O'Roarty 22:11
And they get to decide, right? Oh, God, that life lesson kills me. But what kind of advice do you have for the parents that you work with? Who are in a dynamic with their kids that when they, you know, work through the curiosity and work through the prompts, and then approach their kids they're met with, you know, irritation, or withdrawal or a shut out? How do you support parents in navigating that.

Nancy Albright 22:40
So I'm just gonna read some thoughts that I have here. So again, going back to, like, as parents, like really tapping into yourself and showing yourself that compassion, and that grace, and that love that you've never parented, you might have parented other teenage kids, but not this one, right? They're all different. And although I only have one, each one's different. And so it's giving yourself you know, that grace, first of all, and then I think, with the positive discipline, what I love about it is, you know what, I love you, and I'm here when you want to talk, and don't give up, like, keep saying it to your kid, because eventually, they're going to know and they're going to realize, you know, what, my mom, my dad, my caretaker really does love me. I'm going to open up to them, you know, and it's just about the daily practices that we do with our kids. Like, you know, with Sadie, I'm like, is there anything you need help with today? Or is there any way I can support you? You know, she's like, No, but just knowing that I can be there for her I think is like, okay, and sometimes she does. She's like, mom, like, I want to talk about this friend who's being whatever, you know, so, compassion. You know, I love you, and I'm here. If you want to talk and then just be present, there's nothing you can do. You can't force them to eat to talk to poop. Like, I remember. That's what I was gonna say. He was literally like, I have no control of these things.

Casey O'Roarty 24:05
Yeah, and you still

Nancy Albright 24:07
don't. And so it's just allowing that space for your kids over and over and over and over, every single day. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 24:24
Yeah, I appreciate that. And when it's coming up for me, as I listened to is we get hooked into how things should look, we get hooked into specific timelines. I know again, Rowan, my teacher, you know, when we would have a blowout, and I was ready to make things right. And she wasn't. I remember how hard that was for me. What I know now looking back, you know, and we use that language like, hey, I want to make things right. And she would look at me and say, I'm not ready. And I remember feeling like you are weaponizing this tool like, now looking back the hurt that she was feeling was lingering, right? Yeah. And that was an iceberg place that was a place to get curious around. What is going on for her that it's so hard for her to let this go? Where can I be better? In the moment when I think back to that time, like middle school, early high school years, it was just irritating to me. It was like, Why are you hanging on to this? You know, and then it became like a power struggle around making amends, which is Yeah, so messy. Right. Whatever. That was a missed opportunity. We figured it out. We're great now. But you know, I think that it's so nuanced, right? And I love that the first thing you said for this was Grace for ourselves. Because it's so easy to sit in the outward looking towards what's wrong with my kids, that they don't want to be in conversation, right? And to hold our kids a certain way, versus okay. What's going on with me? Right? Where is possibly, there's something for me to clean up or own or take responsibility of, because, again, it's a dynamic, it's a relational dynamic. And one, it's developmentally appropriate for our kids to pull away when they're teenagers. So there's that. There's also, you know, the fact that, again, our kids have our number, meaning they've been dealing with us since day one. So if the space even as we say, I'm here for you, I'm ready to talk when you are. And if the space has been a place for me to actually let my kid know why they're wrong, or, you know, critical or judgmental, then of course, their self preservation is going to say, I'm not going to answer that question. I'm not going to be vulnerable with you. I know what this is about. Right? And so that self compassion around, okay. And that's funny, because I can see this in my relationship with my husband, too. I'm like, tell me how you feel. And then I'm like, Yeah, that's stupid. You know, not literally, but kind of, yeah, it's like, come into this space. And let me like, throw daggers at you, basically. So recognizing that owning that, and doing the cleanup over and over and over again, to really create a safe space. Right. And I'm wondering for you, because then you've mentioned eating disorder is a part of your history. And I'm wondering, like, when you think about safe spaces for our kids, the safe space that you needed? This is kind of off the cuff, Nancy, I hope that's okay. Yeah, please. But I'm wondering for you, what did you need, as you, you know, in your experience of being a teen and being a young adult who struggled in that way, what did you need around safety?

Nancy Albright 28:07
You know, I didn't have anyone at all. And that was another reason I wrote this book, you know, because maybe I'm remembering, right? I don't remember everything. I mean, I'm sure there was people there that were like, Hey, you want to talk or whatever. But there was never one person that stood out that even took the time to tell me that bulimia would damage my body. Right? Or that there was other ways to cope with my grief. Right? There was nobody there to explain that, to me had even one. I mean, my brother was a drug addict, like he was getting into drugs. So I'm trying to manage him my dad's working nights, like, I felt like so alone. And if it just one person had said, hey, just one conversation here. Let me tell you what I know about your mom dying or like this thing you're doing that is, you know, going to damage you later on or things like that. Just holding that space for me would have just been so comforting. You know, instead, I had people you know, from church, and it's a whole other story, but like, judging me, and, you know, being a racial profile, you know, all of these things, instead of just all I needed was just somebody to know somebody really cared about me. Yeah, you know, and that

Casey O'Roarty 29:20
would have made them seeing you and your struggle. Yeah,

Nancy Albright 29:24
you know, it's like, oh, it's gonna be okay. Time will heal. No, it wasn't friggin okay. Yeah. And yeah, time will heal. But when you're 16, and you just lost your mother, like, you know, when there's no one else your dad's like, going through his own stuff. And I kind of talked about that in the book a little bit about, like, my story around that, but just let them know, you care. Like, yeah, I am here for you. Like, if I don't know the answer, let's figure it out together. You know, we live in such an age where like, that was the 90s like internet was not a thing, right? You know, and even if there is It's like, Google is not a partner that can't comfort us. Right? Right. You're going based on other's opinions. Just one person that says, I really care about you. Let's kind of figure this out together. I will help you.

Casey O'Roarty 30:13
Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah. Well, and even like, I see you struggling, and I love you. Yeah. Even that opens a door. Even that opens a door. And I'm thinking again, about these kids that kind of shut us out. And the dynamic that some of the parents that I work with her in, like, how do I get them to even, you know, be willing, and I think, like, to listeners listening to Nancy's story, and you know, to what we talked about here on the pod, like, even just the baby, a step can just be like, I see that you're struggling. And I love you. Yeah, right. And then pause and just be with that. And let go of this idea that okay, if I say that, then there'll be like, Thanks, mom, and pour it all out. That's not necessarily the unfolding, but it is working on supporting a belief for our kiddos. Like you needed, like, you matter. Right? Yeah, you matter to somebody, and how that would have changed, or influenced, perhaps the outcome for you, and how you were coping with that grief? Yeah. This is deep stuff. It's deep stuff. It's so good. What else do you want to make sure that you leave listeners with today, Nancy, as we wrap up? What are your hopes for this book?

Nancy Albright 31:39
My hopes is that again, you know, like I said, first of all, parents give themselves love and compassion. You know, we are so hard on ourselves. It's like, that baby pops out. And they have a little bag of guilt. And they're like, here you go, you know, and they hand it off, but like to say, you know, and then forevermore, we're always feeling guilty for something, we're not doing something good enough. We're comparing ourselves to other parents, like, give yourself love, compassion, and grace, like, you're gonna figure it out. You know, and I think Dr. Siegel says in his book, it's like, just be present with your kid. Like, when you bring presents to right now, to this moment, there's no room for judgments, there's no room for anger, there's no room for other things, just curiosity and presence. If that's all you're gonna remember from this podcast, like for your kid, that is going to make a world of difference?

Casey O'Roarty 32:33
Yeah. Okay, I want to go on another little ride with you. Like, I love that, even as I listened to you say that, I want to make sure to point out, like, if you are sitting across from your kiddo, and you're like, Okay, I'm present. I'm in the room, and you're still spinning out in fear. You're not present. Like really get to the nitty gritty like presence is okay, I recognize that fears in the room. But I'm not going to let it drive the ship, I'm really going to be here for my kiddo. Bringing it back, I'm really gonna stay curious. Leaving my fear my assumption, you know, my opinion over there. In the corner of the room, it can be I see you, it's you're here. And I'm going to really be inside of the relation that's happening, the relating that's going on, between my child and I. So that's really powerful. Thank you. Thank you.

Nancy Albright 33:29
Yeah, thank you for clarifying. Yeah. Yay. Yeah. Now, like, Artola Oh,

Casey O'Roarty 33:36
my God. Do you know that I got to hang out with him and Maui last fall? I didn't really hang. I mean, me and like, 600 other people. It was very intimate. That's hanging out. That's hanging out. Yeah. I took that thread and ran with it. Because I think that there's a lot of talk about being present. And, you know, it's just like when they were little, and we encourage parents to create special time. And I remember the all the stay at home moms in the room were like, Fuck special time. I'm home all day long with these kids. And it's like, well, yes. And yeah, how many minutes? Are you really dropped in? And on the level, and letting the space be really about the kiddo? And so yeah, you know, it's clarifying. Yeah, you know, and I know, you know that too. For the listeners, right? presence means I'm thinking of a couple of clients of mine. When the kids get into mischief, and we've got our own baggage, whether it's, you know, a mental health situation or a substance use situation or, you know, their sexual development, whatever, when we come at it, and we have our own baggage. I love it when parents are like, Oh, I know why it's so hard for me to be present with this because I have my own trauma around them and when you can recognize that and then you go find a therapist, to support you in Moving through it so that again, you can come back and offer that presents for your child because your story is not your child's story. Right? Yeah. Whoo. Little side road that we went down. Oh, Nancy. So my final question, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Nancy Albright 35:19
So, you know, Courage doesn't mean that you have everything figured out. It doesn't mean that you're not afraid, right? I think it's bringing those joyful moments when things are scary, like looking at those little pockets of joy. You know, and being courageous and moving forward. You know, that's what joyful courage means to me.

Casey O'Roarty 35:41
Yeah. Where can people find you and grab your book?

Nancy Albright 35:46
So my books on Amazon? Yay. It's been released. Yeah, it's been released about a month ago. Okay, you can find my website it's AOA dot WTF? Yes, that is a handle a oh a oh a stars stands for art of attraction. So WTF. And I have other things I do teens I do help I work with, you know, personal development and all of these different different things, but you can find you know, you sign up for my website, you kind of get a little gift. There's a parenting, and you know, whatever questions you have, you know, whatever support I can give you. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 36:27
awesome. Well, thank you so much for spending time with me, Nancy. It's so good to see you. Oh,

Nancy Albright 36:32
I know. I know. We live on opposites now way

Casey O'Roarty 36:35
I know opposite corners. Well, thank you for being here. Listeners, check the show notes for links on the things that Nancy shared, you know, resources that were mentioned. And yeah, thank you. Thank you

Casey O'Roarty 36:56
thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my spreadable partners as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at B spreadable.com. Tune back in later this week for our Thursday show and I'll be back with another interview next Monday. Peace

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