Rachel Macy Stafford and living the Hands Free Life

Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:18
Music. Hello, listeners, welcome back to the joyful courage parenting podcast. Your place for inspiration and education on the parenting journey. I am really excited that you're tuning back in, because I am honored for the guest that I get to be talking to today, and I know that you are going to be really excited. My guest is Rachel Macy Stafford the hands free revolution, Mama. I don't know if you all are familiar with the revolution, but it's happening, and I'm glad to be a part of it. I found Rachel on Facebook. What I feel like it was years ago, and read your blog, whatever post that was, I don't even know, but Rachel, every time I read what you put out in the world, it gets me at my core, and it leaves me feeling so hopeful and so excited to connect with my family. So tell us about you. Tell us about you. Rachel, so glad you're here.

Rachel Macy Stafford 1:25
I'm happy to be here. I just am an ordinary person who is living the same in the same distracted culture that everybody else is living in. And I had a pretty profound epiphany. About five years ago, I was out for a run one morning, and I had this question going through my head over and over, and it was, how do you do it all? How do you do it all? And up until that point, I thought, Wow, what a great compliment. You know, everybody sees me balancing everything so perfectly, but I decided to answer that question honestly, and the answer was, I can do it all because I miss out on life. I miss out on the laughing, the memory making, the playing, the relaxing, you know, all those things that really make life livable and enjoyable. And I just felt like, you know, I needed to make this change. But of course, I was extremely tied to my devices. I was completely productivity driven. And I thought, well, how do I change? Everybody expects me to be this way, and I just started taking little steps to be less distracted and more present in my life. And it turned out to become this amazing approach that I felt compelled to start sharing. And so that's kind of what brought me here. Is just my own journey that I really think other people can benefit from

Casey O'Roarty 3:09
well, and I so value your work because, I mean, this is the actual, actually the first time that I'm hearing your real voice, but, but when I read your blog posts, and when I read your books, I hear your voice saying the words on paper, really talking to me, wow. And I also I'm hearing my own story. I mean, the details are a little different, but I'm really I mean, I just think this is such a powerful conversation to be having, because I know it's my story, and I know it's the story of so many Yes, and I really appreciate how real and raw you are about talking about your own experiences, of of not showing up, you know, just even saying out loud, I am not present For my family, right? And what can I do to make a difference? So you said a little bit about about being inspired to share this with others, but was there any kind of turning point that really compelled you to take your story to the masses? And were you surprised by the by the response that you got?

Rachel Macy Stafford 4:20
Yes. Yes, I it was interesting, because when I started my hands free journey, I did it in secret because I didn't think that I could overcome my distracted ways, because I was really far gone, and so I kept it to myself that I was trying these little strategies, these little attempts to be less distracted, more present, more loving, less stressed out. And so it was about two months into my journey when I decided to tell my husband what I had been working on, and I. I shared it with him one morning he he said, Well, that's strange, because I've noticed something different about you, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it, so he went off to the museum with the children and came back. A few hours later, he pulled me aside and said, I can't stop thinking about this hands free stuff you're talking about. And he said, I looked around and everybody around me was completely distracted. They were not in the moment. And he said, I decided I was going to try to just put push my thoughts of work out of my head. I was going to put my phone in my pocket and not look at it, and he said I had the best time with the girls, and I just felt like that was all I needed to hear, was the fact that me sharing it with one person profoundly impacted those hours that he spent with our daughters, and I thought, okay, you know, I think, I think I know what I'm supposed to do here. And it was funny because my sister had been bugging me for years to start a blog, and because she she knew how much I love to write, and I thought, you know, where would be the best place to put this message where people were distracted, people like myself can read it and, you know? So it seemed a little like off with the message of being hands free, but I thought, well, you know, it's going to take me too long to write a book, you know. So I thought, I'm going to start sharing it now. And it was amazing, because that was extremely hard for me, this person in my community who looked like I had it all together, and I was, you know, plastering that smile on my face when I was really just dying inside. So I knew this would be a surprise to the people who knew me to say, I'm really struggling here. I'm I've lost my joy, I've lost my connection to my family, but I've found a way to get it back. And so I posted it, shared it on my personal Facebook page with everybody who knew me, and within hours, the message had spread, and I was getting messages from not only my friends who also looked like they had it all together, but strangers who said, I need this message. I've been longing for this message. I'm joining you on your journey. And it was all just so affirming to me that this is what my purpose was in life.

Casey O'Roarty 7:46
Yeah, I think it's such a gift to the permission that you give for people to say, you know, don't judge me by the smile on my face. You don't know what's going on in my life, or just to give voice to people who feel like they're the only ones, because it's exhausting, because it is exhausting, it's exciting to pretend and and I do, I do hear the humor, and you know, I love you on Facebook, but I'm not that distracted.

Unknown Speaker 8:17
Yeah, exactly, yes, I know.

Casey O'Roarty 8:21
And it is. It's amazing. I mean, going to the park and going to the not even going to restaurants, you know. And it's not only just like parents, but just, you know, adults together, yeah, sitting at the, you know, sitting outside of a movie theater or wherever we go. Now, there's this handy little device that we can pull out and check out for a little bit. Yeah, and it's, God, it's handy. It's and I noticed, and, you know, and it's funny too, because so I just interviewed Amy McCready about the entitlement stuff, and I was laughing with her, saying, oh, man, now this is totally highlighted in my life, and I'm freaking out. And, yeah, you know, and as I read your work and your new book that's coming out, which I'm totally in love with, I'm hearing I'm recognizing myself and my patterns. And, you know, man, recognizing that is absolutely something that I need to actively practice putting down is my phone and as a as a fellow, you know, online person with my business, it's really easy to say, I'm working right now, right? I'm not just put your phone down, mom. Well, I'm working right now. So this actually isn't me being distracted, yeah, yeah, and working from home too and like, how to when am I working? I'm working all the time. Yeah,

Rachel Macy Stafford 9:50
it's extremely hard now to have boundaries. You really have to be so disciplined and aware, which I think. That's what my stories bring to people that they read it and say, Oh, I had no idea that is why I was doing this, or why I was responding so negatively to my child. You know, so so many of my reactions that were so unkind and unbecoming of me were tied to my state of overwhelm, my distractedness, and so that was that was a huge revelation for me, and some of the most painful stories that I share are those stories and those memories I have of yelling at my kids because I was completely stressed out. And so a lot, I think those are some of the most beneficial stories that I can share, because it helps people put things together, like, Oh, I see this is related to this, and this is why I'm doing this. And, you know, so I just, I just think there's so much power in sharing our stories and our struggles and our triumphs so we can learn from each other.

Casey O'Roarty 11:07
Do you forgive yourself?

Rachel Macy Stafford 11:10
That is definitely something that has been very hard for me, and I really just and really the last year. I mean, I've been on this journey for five years, and it, I think it took me about four to really forgive myself and look at my girls and say, You know what, they're they're okay. You know we're all okay, and we've learned from this. And the more, the older they've gotten, the more that I've shared with them. You know, my my mistakes, and what I learned from that, and honestly, I think that might be one of the biggest gifts that I can give them, is that I've taken my mistakes and I've made something good from it, and I've shared it. And so many people have said I thought it was too late, but I just read your story, and I see that as long as I still have today, I it is not too late. I can try, because now I know better.

Casey O'Roarty 12:09
Yeah, yeah, we're I'm in the middle of a middle school girls workshop with a colleague of mine, and the statement that we keep coming back to is that right now is the only time that we have to create something new and different in our lives, right now in this moment. Yeah, but I ask you about forgiveness, because I know that you know when I look back to the the many mistakes, the many moments that I showed up poorly for whatever reason, it's really tough. And the parents I work with as well, it's really tough for them in learning a new way of being to forgive themselves, but we didn't know what we didn't know. I

exactly right. We didn't know we're always doing the best we can with the skills that we have that's so powerful. So I'm hearing, I'm hearing two pieces of this hands free life from you. I'm hearing like the putting down of distractions, but then once those distractions are put down, you're also speaking into a way of being with our kids, which is present, connected, really seeing them. Can you talk into that a little bit? Yes.

Rachel Macy Stafford 13:35
You know, people often ask me, Well, what? What does it mean to live hands free and it really, like you said, there's two, two facets of the hands free concept that I've come to embrace. And it's first of all, you're making a conscious effort to temporarily let go of all the hundreds of distractions and just be fully present with someone or something meaningful in life. And whether those distractions are external, like the phone or the over committed schedule, or if they're internal, like wanting things to be perfect or beating yourself up over past mistakes, but all of those distractions, whether internal or external, they pull us away from what really matters. And then there's another part of what it means to live hands free, because I really think that in order to be fully present and embrace this kind of imperfect life is that you really do have to kind of reject the pressure that society puts on you to do it all or to hold yourself up to unrealistic standards, or to be the person who. Like she has it all together and really just trusting that you're doing what's best for your family. Who cares what your neighbor's doing? You know they we I just feel like there's a lot of pressure that we try to keep up with each other, and then we're doing a huge disservice to our family because we're ignoring what makes us feel fulfilled and content. So I think hands free living is just living by heart and allowing yourself to be human, to make mistakes, to learn from them, and just maximizing the time that you have when you are in the presence of your loved one, that that's kind of, it's, it's kind of a complicated definition, but it just, and I feel like it's grown as I've been on this journey. You know, what started out as a as a goal for me to put down my phone has turned into so much more, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 16:04
yeah. And I'm and another skill that I'm hearing it was I listen in to what you're saying. You know that's coming to mind is that that stepping, almost stepping out of yourself and broadening your awareness around, like, oh, right now I'm totally feeding into these, the messages of society, right? Like, recognizing when we are how, you know, from I just put my hands on my head, like, you know when I when it's the sink is full and I, I've been ignoring laundry for four days, and somebody wants to show me their Minecraft, latest Minecraft creation, yeah, it's a physical response of overwhelm, right? And so the practice of noticing when you're there, exactly noticing when you're there, and then having a physical practice of releasing that, that nervous energy so that you can breathe into Yeah, you know what? The Minecraft demo is probably only going to take three minutes exactly. And you talk, you have daily declarations in your book. Yes, hands free, daily declarations, and many of which brought me to my knees just thinking about bringing them into my daily practice. Tell me about how you see these as helpful to your readers well,

Rachel Macy Stafford 17:26
so when I realized that I wanted to live in today, rather than keep putting all the good living off until someday, I, you know, started taking these small steps and because I really wanted to put what mattered back on the priority list, instead of, you know, at the bottom, I wanted it at the top, I needed a vow or a goal, you know, something really specific to what I was going to try to do each day. So one of the very first pieces that I ever wrote was called the hands free pledge, and I honestly still use it today to keep my intentions focused on what really matters, and so like the pledge, part of the pledge is I want to make memories, not to do lists. I want to feel the squeeze of my children's arms, not the pressure of over commitment. I want to get lost in conversation with the people I love, not consumed by a sea of unimportant emails. I want to be overwhelmed by sunsets that give me hope, not overloaded agendas that steal my joy. And then it goes on, but basically it really helped me to pinpoint some specific things that I wanted out of each day. And so when I started sharing other Vows and other intentions, like the hands free pledge with my readers, it really resonated. And when I didn't post for whatever reason, like, if I would take a break for a while on off my social media, they would say, oh, Rachel, I missed you because I didn't have my morning inspiration. I need it to set the the tone of the day. And so I thought, you know, what a great contribution to this book, which is about habits for living or living better, loving more. I thought this would be a perfect contribution, and really help people integrate these habits into their life, if they have these intentions to set the day,

Casey O'Roarty 19:42
okay, Rachel, I just had a really good idea for you. Okay, a daily calendar, you know, the kind where you get it's like a block, and you just rip off day by day. And each day we can start off with wisdom from Rachel. Create that is that already in creation.

Rachel Macy Stafford 19:59
Actually, I. I am, I'm, I'm working on my third book, and it is a daily inspiration book. This was highly requested

Casey O'Roarty 20:09
by my readers. Oh, it's not just me, it's not my brilliant idea. You. You had a great idea,

Rachel Macy Stafford 20:14
but other people saw it too, which is so great. I love, I just love that feedback. And my publisher was so just overjoyed. They thought that was a great idea. And so, in fact, someone just the other day, a reader said, Okay, we really need this one a day calendar, like exactly what you just described. So I thought, Well, who knows, maybe they can make that in conjunction with the book. There could be, you know, like you said something to rip off and post and take with you and, you know, tattoo it to your forehead. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 20:47
I mean, there's, and there's so much in your book, I feel like every time I turn a page, I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna put that on a post it and put it somewhere so I can see it. I mean, it's just you, the way that you write and share your message with the world. It's so powerful. I

Rachel Macy Stafford 21:05
love it. I'm

Casey O'Roarty 21:06
so glad that I came across you and speaking of which, I love that you have a chapter around surrendering control, because I am the first person to admit that I like to be large and in charge. It has, you know, I'm the oldest sibling. Talk to any of my siblings. My brother told one of my sisters. You know, Casey's kind of bossy, but if you just do what she says, you end up having a really good time. So I get to this chapter around surrendering control and the work of being present, and then the flow of what is how do we me? How do I and I know I'm not alone. I know that there's my fellow controlling sisters and brothers are out there. How do we take baby steps to release that grip that, you know, I'm 40, I'm almost 42 years old. I mean, that's many years of this pattern, right? What are what suggestions would you have for someone like me to start to move away from that need to control everything?

Rachel Macy Stafford 22:15
Well, I'll, I'm gonna share the most profound step that I took to stop managing my life and my people and to begin to just simply let things be and kind of work out as they were meant to be. And what the just this single step alone just really opened up a whole new world to me. So I thought this would be the best tactic to share. And what I call this is a hairbrush offering. And I was inspired one morning for so this was the first time I ever let my child do her own hair for school. And granted, she'd been asking for years, could I please brush my hair? Could I please do my own hair? And I was it was, of course, a frantic morning, and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror, and it was really disturbing. What I saw this extremely unhappy woman who looked tired, hopeless, angry. And I saw my daughter also looking at this hopeless, angry woman. And I thought, if words could speak, she's wondering where her mom went. What happened to my mom? And I just had the sudden urge to hold out my hand with that hairbrush. And I said, How would you do it? And she kind of looked shocked, because, you know, when did I ever say that? It was like I was holding a spider in my hand, and she picked up the brush, and she started brushing her hair, just softly, and she got to the end, and kind of like, just pulled the hair over her shoulders, and she looked incredibly peaceful and incredibly happy. And she looked up at me and she said, Thanks, Mama. I always wanted to do that. I thought to myself, what else have I been depriving my family of by always having to do it myself, do it my way. Do it hurriedly, do it efficiently. And what am I missing by gripping the hairbrush, gripping life, you know, by the throat. And so it was interesting, because that. Simple phrase, how would you do it? It stuck with me, and I realized I could use it on my husband, instead of micromanaging the way that, you know, he put his clothes away, or decided what he was going to wear when we went out, you know, or folded towels Exactly. And I thought, my and my older daughter, who's messy about the way she goes about things, but she does it in her own way, if I just step back and let her do it. And even, you know, when I would go to teach kids at church, and I thought, you know, I don't have to be controlling them the whole time. I can, I can let them do things for themselves and see what blossoms. And it was so interesting because with that, that phrase, I began to note when my my inner manager, you know, wanted to freak out about something I would, I I would listen to that, you know, that agitation inside me, and I would know, okay, this is when you need to say, Well, how would you do it? And you just, you see the other person, just like, ah, you know, okay, this is so great. I I'm going to get a chance. And then what piece it brought to me to know I didn't have to be in control all the time I could surrender, and sometimes it ended up working far better than what I had planned. So it's such a huge life lesson for me when I get anxious about, Well, I haven't heard back from the publisher, or I don't know what's going on with this, and why is this taking so long? I think to myself, it's okay. You don't have to be in control. You've done all you can, and now let just let things be. And to me, that simple phrase just opened up a whole new world. I

Casey O'Roarty 27:07
I love that question, and what a gift, because they're going to be adults one day, and if they're micromanaged their entire childhood, and then they get into the workforce, and somebody wants to know, well, how would you tackle this problem? They won't have had very much practice if we continue to tell them what to do, when to do it, how to do it, not to mention the power struggles that show up when we think it can be like that, right?

Rachel Macy Stafford 27:35
Exactly. Yeah, that's a whole nother story there. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 27:39
for sure. Oh, thank you. I'm excited to practice that question with my people, for sure, and I think they will be thrilled to hear it coming out of my mouth.

Rachel Macy Stafford 27:51
You might see the look of shock,

Casey O'Roarty 27:54
yeah, well, it's definitely an area that I that I practice. You know that I grow, but I know there's a lot of a lot more growth opportunities for and that I have grown in already. So that's a good thing, too. And you know, I teach positive discipline, which is based on the work of Alfred Adler and his theory. I don't know if you're familiar with Alfred Adler, but his theory is that human behavior is motivated by the needs of belonging and significance, and that, you know, typically, we get into mischief when our perception of how we fit or if we matter is gets skewed. I mean, that's where we're going from, from our own individual perspective, right? So, right? It seems to me that a lot of the hands free message supports a child's sense of belonging and significance, yes and when. Because when we're present with our kids, they feel connected. They know that they matter, not necessarily saying it out loud, but just in our holding space with them. You, I loved reading about your dad and your routine with your dad and his note to you. Will you talk about the note that he wrote to you and then the reflection you made on after school time? Yeah.

Rachel Macy Stafford 29:21
Well, so my dad wrote an email to me about, I don't know, I think it was about a year into my journey, and it said, I'm sorry that I was not a hands free parent while you and your sister were growing up, and I'm sorry for that, and I didn't need my dad to tell me, You know what he was sorry for, because I knew. But what I told, and eventually told my dad, and I've shared with other people, was that I. I know what he was sorry for, but I remember something more, something much more important than that, than the things that he did wrong. And I remember so my dad was a college professor, and I went to school at a kind of like a special laboratory school that was on the campus, and I had to walk about 10 minutes each day from my school to his office. And I walked there every day after school for over a decade, and I would always find my dad sitting at his desk surrounding surrounded by a piles of papers and books and and although the empty chair sitting next to him was probably for a colleague or a social work student, I always believed that the empty chair was for me. And my dad would look up from whatever he was doing and he would smile, and then he always did the same thing. He had this black felt tip pen that he used to grade papers, and he would always put that pin cap on his pen, and that, to me, was kind of like my signal that my dad wanted to hear about my day. And so I would sit down in that empty chair, and my dad would just listen and nod, and sometimes he would, you know, have something to offer. But I just remember thinking to myself, just by the way that my dad looked was, I think that hearing about my day is the best part of my Dad's Day, like I really felt like that. And so I just look back on that time, and honestly, I cannot remember a time when he said, I can't talk right now. Rachel, and I mean, he, you know, he wrote his dissertation, he had incredibly challenging faculty issues and budget cuts, but honestly, I don't remember him ever saying, I can't sit with you right now. And you know, my dad was far from perfect. He lost his temper. He worked too much and and went through some really rough bouts with depression, but he always listened to me even through the rough patches, and that's what I remember most, and so that really gives me hope. And I love to share this with other people, because I think, you know, I'm gonna make mistakes today. I'm gonna I'm gonna fall short in a lot of departments, but I can do something really well. I can listen. I can look up when she walks in the room. I can look into my husband's eyes when he gets out of the gets home from work. And I can listen by nodding and smiling and making that person feel like this is the best part of my day. And I've just learned from that that unconditional listening or attention can just be as important as unconditional love. And so I love, I just that that's really my favorite story in the book, too. I just, I just think it's so powerful and so healing,

Casey O'Roarty 33:17
yeah, and it just, you know, I think that as parents, we're really quick to think and remember and judge ourselves about around our mistakes. Yeah, and you know, having a really tough dinner time can negate the whole rest of the day where you were really connected and involved and playful with your child. And so I love, I love the contrast between his note to you and then your memory of how he was for you. It's so beautiful. And one of the activities that we do in positive discipline is I ask parents to think back to how you know to a person in their life who showed them, who let them know that they mattered deeply to them. And the prompt is, you know, what did they do or say? And then the participants come up with a list. And one time, I was a parent educator at a local Co Op preschool, and one of my former students, I was a had been a classroom teacher years ago, and I had a former student who ended up being a young mom, a very young mom, and she was now a parent at the Co Op, and she was one of my favorite kids, and I was able to do some things with her outside of the classroom, kind of bring her into my life as well. And when it came time to do this activity, we went around the circle and and it was her turn, and she looked right at me, and she said, My person took me. Outside of my situation, and showed me something totally new and different. And I knew that she was talking about me, and I was just right. I had a hard time holding it together to finish up the activity. And I, you know, and in my experience, I knew that we had had a really strong connection, and I was close to her family, and but I had, you know, to hear her speak into those words. That was really special for me. And I'm sure that, as your dad reads your book, you know, and has probably talked to you about that like you said, I'm sure that that was such a gift for him as well. I think that we all do so many things Right, exactly, and there's always room for improvement. You're so right. That's

Rachel Macy Stafford 35:46
a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 35:49
And you also talk about setting boundaries. And when I initially started that chapter in your book, I was thinking, okay, yeah, that's okay. Now we're really gonna get into it, setting those boundaries, right? Yes, exactly. I was immediately drawn to how subtle you were in your language and how boundaries show up in all different ways, boundaries with ourselves, boundaries with our partners, with our kids, and that our kids learn by our example, and they also learn by how often we communicate with them about their lives, right? Exactly? Can you speak into this whole boundary piece a little bit as we wrap up? Sure.

Rachel Macy Stafford 36:29
So an interesting thing happened as I'm trying to transform my own distracted life, I realized there was something quite powerful going on, and that I was giving my children a chance at living a present, joy filled life in a distracted culture, because I was simply modeling how to do this. And so, you know, for example, when we're using healthy technology use and having healthy boundaries. Our children learn there's a time and a place for these devices, and it doesn't have to be an appendage, you know, an added appendage. It doesn't have to be carried around with us. And on the flip side, if we always have that phone in our hand, or we always have our face in the screen. Our kids are going to learn, you know, okay, the device takes priority over the humans and the and the real life. Expect experiences, and so one of my most effective motivations for maintaining just a healthy work life boundary is to just envision my kids in the future and what is going to make them feel fulfilled. And so I just think about, you know, Natalie and Avery being on their own on a Saturday. And I think, you know, if I want them to be awed by a morning sunrise, I must take time to be awed by a morning sunrise now. And if I want them to think, hey, you know, today's a great day to go screen free. I'm gonna go off the grid and go hiking, you know. Well, then I must show them what a joy it is to go off the grid on Saturday, you know. And so if I want them to just listen to the crunch, you know that the leaves make when you're out for a fall walk, or look at the blue sky and say, Gosh, look at that beautiful color. You know, then I I've got to do that myself and and also, you know, something unrelated to to the phone. But another boundary is, if I'm going to respond with peace and kindness to them, that's what they're going to learn. You know, we're having a conflict, and I say, hey, remember, we're on the same team here. We don't, we don't have to fight. We can work this out. Maybe someday when they're having a conflict, they'll think, oh, yeah, I don't need to tear this person down. I can remind them that we're we're on the same team, we both want what's best for us. And so, you know, I just think my ultimate hope is for my kids to yearn for all that life has to offer, you know, a life of love and contentment and fulfillment, and I want them to do it with open hands and open heart and open eyes. And the only way that they're going to see how to do this and grasp that very foreign concept, really, that kind of is rare now today is to see me, see. Successfully doing that in in my life, and so that that's just like, huge, huge motivator, if you, you know, if you're having trouble putting those boundaries in, just remember, well, when they're 21 and they have a free Saturday, what do I want them to sit in front of the TV, you know, all day or whatever. Do I want them to just squander away their life? Because we we could easily do that.

Casey O'Roarty 40:30
Oh, Rachel, I wish you were running for president. I totally vote for you. Thank you, that one Oh, I hope that everyone that's listening, if you're not in the revolution, if you're not pledging to go hands free and really start like Rachel said, modeling the behavior that you want your kids to one day embody. Now is the time. It's never too late. Thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today, Rachel, I so so appreciate it

Rachel Macy Stafford 41:03
and a pleasure. Thanks, Casey

Casey O'Roarty 41:06
and to all you that are listening. If you liked this, if you want to find out more about Rachel Macy Stafford, you can go to her website, yep, go to your blog. Tell us the name of all and all the places that they can go.

Rachel Macy Stafford 41:19
Okay, so you can go to www.handsfreemama.com that's my blog, and then the hands free revolution is on Facebook, and I would just want to add those two places have an incredible community of supportive people that just really just are so heartfelt in their comments, and they share their ups and downs and help each other. So that's a great place if you want some support for living hands free. And I'm new to Instagram, my sister in law said it's time to get you on Instagram. So I said, Okay, you if you can do that, go for it, so you can find the hands free revolution on Instagram, and then, like you said, I have a new book coming out on September 8, and I'm so excited right now, my publisher is offering an incredible deal for anyone who pre orders hands free life, they get a free ebook download of my New York Times best seller, hands free Mama. So that is rude until September 7, and you can find that by just Googling hands free life, it'll come up great.

Casey O'Roarty 42:28
Oh, that is so exciting. What a great opportunity for people to get both of your magic offers. Thank you. Oh, and listeners, if you liked this podcast, don't forget, I love feedback, so let me know in the comments. Let me know through the Speak pipe app or please, please, please, go on iTunes and write a review. If this is a podcast that you look forward to hearing more from, that you binge listen to, which doesn't really sound very hands free, but leave an iTunes review and let other people know that what you're hearing here is making a difference in your life. All right, thank you so much. Rachel,

Rachel Macy Stafford 43:11
thank you, Casey. Have a Great day. You too. Bye,