Eps 153: Yoga as a Parenting Tool With Naomi Gottlieb-Miller

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Music. Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place for information and inspiration on the conscious parenting journey. The conversations you'll hear on this show are all intended to offer you tools for moving forward, expanding your lens and shifting your narrative to one of possibility, connection and empowerment. When we bring deep, listening, acceptance and courage to our relationships, we are doing our part to evoke it in the world. I am thrilled to partner with you on this path. Hey everybody. Naomi Gottlieb Miller is my guest today on the podcast, Naomi is a mom yoga teacher, self care advocate activist, Air Force spouse and Star Trek nerd. She is passionate about working with busy moms and empowering them to take better care of themselves so they can rewrite the story of what healthy motherhood feels like. One of her favorite things about teaching yoga is making yoga fun and accessible for everyone she works with. Naomi is also passionate about helping people figure out how to make space in their busy lives for a daily yoga practice. Yay. Hi, Naomi. Welcome to the podcast.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 1:18
Hi. I'm happy to be here.

Casey O'Roarty 1:21
Please share a little more with the listeners about who you are and what you offer the world.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 1:27
Okay, so I'm Naomi, and I have been teaching yoga for Oh, wow. This will be my 14th year teaching yoga. I started, actually when I was young. I guess you could say I was 24 when I started teaching yoga and and I look back, or actually, I was 23 when I first started, because I'm like, wait, but I'm turning 37 this year. I

Casey O'Roarty 1:50
got crazy. How that happens? Well,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 1:53
you know, like, when I think about it, it's like, well, this is my 14th year doing it. And, you know, I look back over all that time, and there's this part of me that sort of thinks, wow, I can't believe that I've been teaching yoga this long, and at the same time, I can't imagine doing anything differently. And I often say, you know, teaching yoga saved my life, or not even just teaching yoga, but but discovering Yoga, you know, like becoming a yoga teacher, you know, learning the practice of yoga saved my life, but I think that what it really did is it just shone a light into my life, and it gave me the tools to use in order to turn my life in a different direction. And it was yoga ultimately that led me to where I am now, which is not only teaching yoga, but also offering support to moms like me, who have, you know, really forgotten how essential it is to take care of themselves. You know, have really forgotten the value of being their own person, and really reconsidering the way that we move through the world as mothers, but also as human beings, separate from from mothers. So, you know, Yoga has, has been the key to take me from some really dark, unhealthy places in my life into a much more empowered and alive and awake and aware person, you know, who still has some, you know, major issues, like, I mean, who doesn't but? But, you know, also, like, is dealing with them, I think, in a more conscious way,

Casey O'Roarty 3:27
yeah, yeah. Well, and I really appreciate you talking about your own growth, and the path of growth that is always going to be ahead of us, right? Because I talk about that a lot too. I think that in the parenting conversation, there's this expectation or assumption of, well, like we're all heading to some destination of Utopia, where every, you know, everybody feels good all the time. And I think, like there's that parallel journey with yoga as well, where there isn't really any destination. It's just simply getting on the mat every day and being with whatever shows up.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 4:06
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think that that's one of the things that they share in a lot of ways, and it's a good reminder. You know, I like to say that yoga is not just what you do on your mat, but it's how you live your life. And you know the idea that in yoga, you know, whenever somebody says, Well, I've mastered this pose, I'm like, really tell me about that, you know, like, I'm fascinated, you know, because I've been doing yoga for God. Like I started when I was 18. I started practicing yoga when I was 18, and I'm about to turn 37 you know, this has been nearly two decades of my life, and I can't even envision what it would feel like to master a pose, you know, and in the same way, like, you know, I remember a couple of years ago, I made some post on Facebook where I said, like, really feel like I've turned a corner in parenting, you know. I really feel like, you know, like I just, I really get it now, and I'm on top of it. It. And then, you know, like, the next day it was just totally insane again. Like I felt like I was not on top of it. And then I had another kid, and, you know, threw some more crazy into the mix. And, you know, like, I think some people would look at that and say, like, wow, this really sucks. And I'm never gonna get anywhere, and I'm never going anywhere, but I kind of look at it as like, wow, this is a really interesting adventure, you know, and what a great opportunity to explore myself and my life, and, you know, the dynamics of the relationships that that I exist within, you know, not just with my kids, but also with myself, because that one's the one that I've been in the longest. And you know, it's constantly changing.

Casey O'Roarty 5:43
Oh, yeah, and that's the one that will be with you till the end. Yep,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 5:48
exactly. That's the one that really needs to take care of, right? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 5:52
for sure. And the more we take care of that, the better that we show up for all the other people, all the other curves and turns and twists that is the journey of life. Totally talk a little bit about so in your bio, you talk about helping moms to rewrite what healthy motherhood looks like. What do you mean by that? What does that mean to you? Oh,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 6:16
that's such a great question. I think the idea of motherhood is written by so many other people than us. You know, I think that motherhood is written by sitcom writers all the time. Oh, yeah, I think motherhood is written by mainstream media. I think motherhood is written by, you know, like, sometimes very well meaning mom bloggers. I'm a mom blogger. Like, I mean, you know, so I think that, but, but, you know, like I say, I think sometimes motherhood is written by everybody else, but we don't always take the time to write our own story, you know. We don't always take the time as as moms to say, Well, that's nice, but that doesn't work for me, you know? I mean, there are a lot of phenomenal mom bloggers out there, and I look at them and I'm like, geez. Like, I don't even know how you do it, and that's amazing. And sometimes it makes me feel bad about who I am as a mother, and other times I'm just like, whatever you care but, but most of the time, I kind of look at it as, you know, this is really great, and I have to look at it more as inspirational, or this doesn't. This doesn't work for me. This doesn't fit in with my vision of motherhood, you know, and that's okay, but I think that a lot of times we compare ourselves to those other types of motherhood, you know, like Pinterest motherhood or Instagram motherhood or, you know, like I said, even some of the hilarious, like, scary mommy and, like, I love scary mommy. And then sometimes, like, there are pieces that I read on there that I'm like, wow. Like, all right, you kind of put me in my place a little bit, you know. And so, like, everything is going to influence us, and it's also going to make us feel like we should like it's all the shoulds start to line up, yeah, and I don't think that there's one perfect story of motherhood. I don't think there's one perfect version of motherhood. I think that everybody has to find their own. And so a lot of the work I do within the online programs that I offer, and, you know, one on one coaching that I do is just saying, Well, how, how do you want to be a mom, you know, like, what supports you? Do you want to, you know, be making meals from scratch for your kids all day long. Or, do you want to, you know, be at the park and take do takeout every night like, you know, or somewhere in between, you know, do you like what? What is it that is really calling to you as a mom and and personally? And can you reconcile those things and say, This is who I am, not this version. I can appreciate that version, but it's not me, you know? So that, to me, is, is the rewriting of the story.

Casey O'Roarty 8:56
Well, I really appreciate that. And I think that we have this tendency to forget that what we see through the blogs and through Pinterest and Instagram and Facebook is really exactly what that person wants us to see. Yeah, and it's not a complete picture. And I think, you know, some of us show up on the earth with a really easy going temperament, and some of us do not, and some of us had models that were really healthy, connected examples of what parenthood looks like, and those models live inside of us, and some of us do not. And so I love that, and I also want to acknowledge that I do have fathers that listen to this show as well. So hi dads. Hi dads. I know we're talking about moms, but you're gonna Okay, and I'm gonna invite all the dads that are listening to consider how this conversation applies to them. So that's your challenge, dads. And I also want to kind of parallel this with yoga, because I think that the same thing everything that you just said about. How any of us that have decided to dip our toe into yoga, I think, bump up against all those same things, right? All those same models of, what does it look like to have a yoga practice, and what does it because Instagram, I mean, it's I can get sucked in so deeply into the yoginis that show up on Instagram, and it's fascinating, and they've mastered the camera angles and the speeds, and it's like, oh my gosh, so bendy. And guess what? I'm not that bendy. Like my body is not that bendy. And so, you know, and it's this practice. So how do you see yoga, and the way that you teach yoga and work with moms around yoga as a parallel to this, you know, this ideal that we can get trapped in this, you know, like you said, healthy motherhood. What's the healthy yoga?

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 10:53
Oh, that's so hard, too. Because, as somebody who is on Instagram and, like, I have this, like, major conflict, you know, because I love what Instagram has done for broadening the reach of yoga in the world. You know, there's so many people now who do yoga just because of Instagram, purely because of Instagram, but the dark side is people only want to do the fancy stuff, right? Like, they see those bendy people and they're like, well, yoga is not for me, or that's what I'm supposed to be doing. You know, they see even experienced teachers, you know. Like, the big issue that I have is there a lot of people who are leading these challenges and doing these poses who aren't teachers, who haven't studied, who haven't done training, who don't know their hamstrings from their scapula, you know, which aren't even to, like, scapulas of bone, the hamstrings or muscles, you know, and I look at them and I'm like, I'm just so glad that you're spreading the message of yoga. I just wish that there was a way to make it less competitive and less a popularity contest, unless that the merit goes to the people who, you know, fill out their spandex pants better. And, you know, can do the fancier poses, and not, you know, the teachers who are skilled and, you know, who are really trying to offer something into the world that is clear and empowering and really for everybody. Yeah. So I think that's those sort of parallel universes of Instagram. And so what, actually, what I try to do in Instagram, because I wear spandex. I'm wearing spandex right now, and leg warmers because it's cold in my house,

Casey O'Roarty 12:27
like, I have my leggings on right now. Girl, I'm with you because

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 12:31
I, you know, like, I love leggings, like, I think they're the best things ever. And I almost never wear anything else, just because it's more comfortable, so, you know. And right now I live in the desert and it's hot and dry, so, like, I need, I can't wear jeans. Like it doesn't make sense. Anyway. Back to the more important thing, so, you know, like, I wear spandex too, right? Like, everybody wears leggings, you know. But what, what I try to do when I practice is, you know, like my kids practice with me all the time, you know. So I tend to do these, like, sped up videos, you know, Hyperlapse videos of my kids doing yoga with me, or on top of me or underneath me, or, like, workouts, because I, you know, I do fitness. I don't teach it, but I, you know, often will film myself with my kids because they'll do it with me, and it's completely adorable. And sometimes it's a pain in my ass, you know, to be perfectly honest. And I say that too, you know. I say like they look cute right now, but five minutes after I stopped recording this, like they dropped a big, you know, piece of jam covered toast on my yoga mat, and I yelled, You know, I mean, so what I try to do, is I, you know, I try to post, you know, videos of like, Hey, this is what my yoga practice looks like. People tell me all the time. They say, you know, I don't, I don't have time for yoga, or, you know, I don't have time to get on my mat, or my kids want to do it with me. Or, you know, they, they just, they make it impossible for me to do yoga. And I'm like, check this business out, you know, like, yeah, it's not always perfect, but they don't do it every day. You know, they don't join me every day. And I get up early enough that some days they're not awake yet, you know, like, I make it a priority, like that. You know, when it comes to moving my body, like it is a non negotiable daily priority, you know, part of my daily self care, yeah? But since, you know, like my kids sometimes wake up, it's like, Hey, this is my real life, you know, like, I sometimes do fancy poses too, but more often than not, like I'm just trying to do a downward facing dog without crushing my child, you know, so, so that's

sort of How I try to how to combat, you know, the perfect, you know, Instagram bendy yoga poses with like, hey moms, real moms, do yoga. Sometimes it looks like this, sometimes it looks like this. But, you know, there's a lot of gray area in between.

Casey O'Roarty 14:55
I so appreciate that, Naomi, because, I mean, you nailed it on. The perceived barriers, right? The perceived barriers around, well, I have little kids, I don't have time, I don't have childcare. There are so many resources for dipping your toe in and making it happen and showing up. And I think that whether it's showing up to do yoga, or, you know, any kind of self care practice is going to require you to just do it. Hey, everybody just showing up to check in and invite you to pause for a moment, pause for a moment and consider what the content you are listening to is worth to you consider what kind of listener you are. You listen to the show every week. You're moved into action by what you hear. You find yourself saying, yes, someone gets me. I am so honored to create this podcast for you. I am also really thrilled to let you know that there is a way for you to be in support of its sustainability. You can become a joyful courage patron. Being a patron is giving back patrons pledge financial support that goes directly into the production of this podcast. You can pledge $1 $5 or $10 a month, whatever works for you, and know that it is a win, win. You exchanging energy with me and making a statement about what the podcast means to you. Can I get a big hell yes. Thank you to everyone who has already become a patron. Your support is so appreciated. Everyone else, don't wait. Head over to www.patreon.com/joyful courage, and sign up to be a patron today. That's www dot, P, A, T, R, e o n.com/joyful, courage, all one word, sign up today so so appreciate you and all the ways you support the show. And now back to the interview. Funny enough, just before we got on this call, I went to the gym, and I decided, because I didn't plan on going on this tangent, Naomi, so just bear with me. I like, okay, good. I was, you know, normally I go to the gym and I do the elliptical and I watch, like, Grey's Anatomy, or this is us, or shameless, or one of my shows, and I'm just, I'm like, All right, I get to watch my show, and I just kind of do whatever the workout is, the button that I've pushed on the elliptical. And I don't really, I mean, I get excited by the calories burned, but there isn't really, like, a Oh yeah, I'm gonna do it really hard for 30 seconds and then I'm gonna relax like, there's no plan. It's just like, hey, I got on the elliptical. Yay me, which is better than nothing. And today I went in and I decided, you know, today I am going to look up a TED Talk. I'm gonna watch a TED talk, and I'm gonna look up motivation. And I stumbled upon this woman named Melanie Robbins. Have you heard of her? I have not. Okay, well, I'm gonna plaster her all over my world, because I actually watched two of her talks, and she talks about how there's the autopilot and then there's the emergency break, and those are really the two different parts of our brain, and we get in the habit we have, like a habit loop in the brain, which is the, you know, it can look like hitting the snooze button five times before you get up. It can look like having that moment of, oh, I should do yoga, but I have too many things to do, or the baby needs me, or I'm going to make some food, or, you know, fill in the blank. And then the minute we decide, no, I'm going to do something different, we then have this emergency break that happens where then our ego shows up and said, No, you can't. And it fills in the blank with and this is why, right? So anyway, she talks about this five second rule, and she laughs about like it's kind of a lame name, because most of us know the five second rule about how long a piece of food can be on the floor before we can eat it. But this is different. This is a five second countdown. And so when we have the idea of, I'm going to make myself a protein shake instead of eating this bowl of chips, or I'm going to get on my mat, or I'm going to meditate, or I'm going to take a walk with the kids, that it becomes in that moment right when we have that, that thought, we have about five seconds to act on it before our pattern shows up, and it's a countdown. So as soon as we say five in our mind, right, as soon as we go into the 54321, we've actually as soon as we hit five, we've interrupted the pattern, and we've set ourselves up ever better. For doing something different, and by the time we get to one, she says, One is when we activate or sooner, right? And so even if it's like and the challenge she gives in one of her talks is, tomorrow morning, I want you to set your alarm for a half an hour earlier, and when the alarm goes off, I want you to count down from 54321, and when you get to one get up, because if we wait till we feel like doing yoga, or if we wait till we feel like changing our diet and being better, or if we wait till we feel like doing, you know, not yelling or not snapping at our kids, it's never going to happen. And so, yeah, so this is it's so exciting to me to think about, like, basically tricking our brain. But really, I would say I don't really like the word tricking our brain, but really it's supporting our brain to work for us versus against us.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 20:52
That's totally true, though. And I think, I mean, I love that. I totally love that. And it brings to mind also, like, some of the so I do a lot of like habit change work with my clients and with the programs that I run, because habit change fascinates me. Yeah, me too,

Casey O'Roarty 21:07
even as I everyone, even as I am fully aware of my habits, and like, my entire journaling session this morning was all about what the hell's wrong with me. I know what I want, and I keep doing the same thing, which is not what's getting me to what I want. So, full disclosure, well,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 21:23
so in that vein, you should check out Gretchen Rubin if you haven't yet. Phenomenal. And what she would say, too, about that five second rule is that she would say it kind of depends on your tendency a little bit. You know that with any habit, there are different types, right? There are different types, right? There are different types of people, and you act in different ways. And I will give like, the very, very tiny, short bullet version, you know, there are people who are upholders, who you know will do it just because you know they uphold. There are people who are questioners who want to know why they should be doing it. So they need an internal reason. So if you give them a reason that's legit, they'll be like, okay, and they'll do it. There are obligers who will, you know, cave more to external pressure when it comes to habits, you know, like they do it for rewards, or they do it, you know, for somebody else's approval, or they do it, you know, because, not necessarily for somebody else's approval, but because somebody else does it or likes it or whatever. And then there are rebels, and the rebels are like, you know, screw it all. And I do what I want. You can't tell me what to do. And I make my own road. I'm a rebel, so habit change can be challenging for me actually. Like the upholders will take that five second rule, and they'll be like, All right, I'm do, I'm getting up, but I'll tell you what, I was never a snoozer. I never snoozed my alarm until, basically, until my husband, until I married my husband, because he's a snoozer, like, he'll, you know, hit the snooze like five times, and up until then, you know, my alarm went off, I'd get up, I'd do my thing, because that was what I did and and now I snooze and I will count down, you know. So my alarm goes off, I turn it off and I'll I usually count down from 10. To be fair, I'll try five tomorrow, and, like, I count down, and I'm like, Okay, 10, nine, eight, and I get to one, and I'm like, well, count down from 10 again.

Casey O'Roarty 23:19
So your snooze button just looks a little different. Yeah, so,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 23:22
but, but at the same time, I love that idea, though, because that that's exactly what happens when it comes to habits. The truth about habits is that you're not going to change a habit unless it's easy. You're not going to pick up a new habit unless it's convenient. You know, like our habits are based on convenience familiarity, you know, like the routines that we're in. So trying to adopt a new habit actually can be incredibly challenging, unless you're an upholder who's like, I'm just going to do that, right? You know, the upholder, for example, is somebody who's like, I'm going to stop smoking. Bam, everything is thrown in the toilet or the trash, like they're just done, you know, and they don't go back ever, right? You know, whereas a lot of other people are going to need something more, you know. So the questioner might say, for example, and again, like, I go to Gretchen Rubin, because I think, like a lot of the work that she's done on on habit change and figuring out as a science is really smart. So I think these two, Melanie Robbins and and Gretchen Rubin, like, they have a lot of synchronicity, but they're probably friends,

Casey O'Roarty 24:21
probably sure they are, everybody in the ticket coffee,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 24:24
like, everybody in be there one day. Yeah, someday? Well, yeah, you know, I always think, like, what would I talk

Casey O'Roarty 24:31
me too. I have a lot of time that I spend thinking about my TED Talk,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 24:35
yeah, you know, like, constantly, I'm just like, what would I do? And then I'm like, I've got to fix my website, so I'm going to go, you know, like, but so like, I just, I think when it comes to habit change, you know, we expect it to be easier than it is, you know. So when mom says to me, you know, even, for example, like, turn set your alarm 30 minutes earlier, well, that's actually really hard, you know, like 30 minutes earlier is a huge change. I would say, set your alarm five minutes earlier. Okay, set your alarm five minutes earlier, because that's much more realistic. Yeah, right. And then build up to the 30 minutes like, you want to wake up 30 minutes earlier? Well, start small, you know, like, set, set your alarm five minutes earlier, and then do your countdown, and then get your butt out of bed, like, well, and

Casey O'Roarty 25:19
one of the things that Melanie Robin says is that it's simple. It's not easy, right? But it's a simple they're simple tweaks. And I think bringing this back to, you know, the parallels between the parenting and the yoga. You know, for me, when I talk about joyful courage and choosing in to this conscious parenting, it's a practice, and we have these opportunities throughout the day to choose to react or respond, right? And I think the same, I know in my experience, that I'd love for you to talk into it. The same is that it's the same journey on the mat, right? Even if it's, am I going to take this a little bit deeper? Do I want to hold this longer? You know? Because even the simplest poses, if it's, you know, if it's a yin yoga class and it's a five minute hold Damn those quote, simple poses get really intense and throughout, you know, I'm just thinking about it at yoga as a practice that opportunity to rub up against the ego, the inner voice that says, Don't do it like this. Like, let it go, give up. Do what's easy. Do you know what I mean? What can you speak into around that inside of the yoga practice and how you support because the other thing too, is making yoga accessible to everyone. Like I just, I'm feeling in this moment all of these parallels to like making conscious parenting available and accessible to everyone, even those people that just feel like it's so out of their reach.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 26:51
Oh yeah. So, oh man. So the thing that I love most about yoga, the thing that I think distinguishes yoga, or can distinguish yoga, from other movement practices, is that yoga, the intention is to move mindfully, to move consciously, right? The intention is to move with your breath, to connect body, mind and spirit, so that you're not going on autopilot. You know, you're not checking out when you're doing yoga, you are feeling into every action you are engaged in, every action, you are asking yourself, How does this feel, you know, do I feel aligned? Do I feel good? Do I feel weird? You know, like, Does this feel right? Does this feel different, like you're in constant conversation with yourself? In fact, I like to think of yoga as a conversation. So if you took class with me, you know, in real life or even online, truthfully, I expect people to talk back to me when I teach, you know, like, I like conversation. You know, I ask questions of my students when I teach, because I don't want you checking out. And also, like, I could talk to myself really easily at home. I don't need to do that in front of a room full of people, you know, like if I'm in a room full of people who've come to learn from me, the only way that we can learn is if we engage in conversation. So one of my teachers once said, There are two different types of teachers. There are facilitators, and there are educators. So a facilitator, you know, and one is not better than the other, so I want to be really clear about that. So for example, a facilitator might lead like a restorative yoga class, and the entire objective of facilitating that class is facilitating rest, right, just getting people to be completely relaxed and let go and just feel really good. And to leave feeling like they're walking on clouds, to leave feeling less stressed out, somebody who's facilitating a meditation class would be the same thing you're facilitating an experience. But an educator teaches, right? An educator goes in and says, Okay, let's talk about this. Let's break it down. Let's understand it more. Let's talk about how it impacts your body, and does this work for you, and does it not work for you? Or do you like it? You know, do you hate it? Why are we doing this pose right now? You know, so. So that really impacted my teaching. I tend to be much more of an educator. I don't often teach restorative yoga. I do a little bit more now because I'm a parent and I need more restorative yoga in my life, but I'm more of an educator, you know, like, the whole thing for me is I want you to be in conversation with yourself, you know. I want you to engage with yourself, and I want to be a part of that. I want to engage with you too, so that if you have questions about it, like, let's figure it out together. Because if, if you're not in conversation with yourself, you know when you're practicing, then you're not really going to know what's going on in your body, you know. And this, again, tends to be why for me, I. For yoga practices and teachers who engage in conversation like, there are a lot of styles of yoga that just aren't for me, because they're much more like, you do what I say. You don't question. You don't I've put you in this pose. You know, I organize your body this way. You do what I say. And then we move on to the next one and and those are very, in my opinion, very checked out practices, right? There's not a lot of, you know, conversation going on. There's not a lot of questioning going on. And, you know, I I like more questioning. I like, I like more engagement. I think that

Casey O'Roarty 30:36
I love that, because I always want to talk yoga. I want to moan and groan and I want to ask questions, and it doesn't always feel available

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 30:47
and important. Man. Like, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 30:51
well, especially considering, like, there's, you know, I always tell the teacher at the start of the class, like, touch my body. Please adjust me. Please, like, come over and help me be in the have proper form and all the things right? And I also love what you just said and how it connects to something that just last night, even as I worked with parents, I talked to them about and with clients, being transparent in what's happening when it's happening with our kids and with our partners and it, you know? And I what you said about it, you know, it bring it keeps us out of automatic pilot, right? So it's so powerful to be able to say, you know, this is how I'm feeling right now, and this is where I'm pulled to go. And I don't think this is going to be helpful to you or to me, so I'm going to do XYZ to help myself, like the whole dialog and putting it out into the space, I think is so useful to the to us, the parent, but also it's such powerful modeling for our kids and our people to see us actively working through our current moment, especially when it feels, you know, like, Ah, I kind of want to freak out right now.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 32:15
Yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 32:15
don't want to freak out right now, but everything in my body is pulling me towards the freak out. So this is what I'm going to do, right? And I think that too in yoga, you know what I'm hearing you say, especially with the, you know, having that internal dialog that it is a choosing in it is a I'm going to hold this even though my legs are shaking and my sweat dripping off me, even though it's uncomfortable, I'm I'm gonna stay here and be with the discomfort. I think the same that same quote practice is exactly what you know. Myself and others who do this work invite parents into like, yeah, there's a lot I

of discomfort and parenting. Oh, yeah, you know, and we and we can handle it, we can be with it, and we don't realize that we can be with it until we actively choose to stay in the discomfort. Oh, I

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 33:21
love that so much. I love that as a metaphor for pairing thing, actually. And I, I had, I had never really envisioned it in that way. So thank you for that.

Casey O'Roarty 33:29
You're welcome Ted Talk. There's my TED talk. Yeah,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 33:32
there's right there be in the discomfort, but that's, that's actually like, you know, it's a yoga theme. You know, if you went to a yoga class, might be like, we're gonna do standing poses today, and you're going to hold the standing poses for like a minute, be in the discomfort. And on the other hand, you know, like, there are times when you shouldn't be in the discomfort too, you know, like, and I think that's part of the conversation with yourself. It's like, well, is this pain or is this therapeutic irritation? You know, like

Casey O'Roarty 33:58
that phrase, therapeutic irritation,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 34:02
good, right? But it's but. But there's also that fine line, I think, you know, in yoga and in parenting between, you know, is this being in the discomfort? Am I holding space? Am I holding space for my parenting, my holding space for my kids? Am I, you know, being in this really tough moment and choosing not to blow up. Or, you know, is this a moment where, actually, like, I need to release a little bit? Is this a moment where, like, I do get angry? Is this a moment where, you know, I do get much more clear about boundaries, you know, like, there's, I think, you know, that's so much of the parallel between yoga and parenting is so much in that conversation. It's so much in being the disc, in the discomfort. It is so much in, you know, being conscious of the choices that you're making and when you do screw up, which happens for me, like every day. You know, like when you do girl, you know when you do say things to your kids, you're like, Man, I did not. Mean, for that to come out of my mouth at all, not even a little bit, you know, to be able to say, Okay, what would if I What would I have done differently, you know? And to say to my kid, like, hey, you know, mommy shouldn't have said that. Like, that wasn't very nice at mommy. I'm sorry, you know. And you need, you know, and you know, just to be able to say that and to say, you know, if I do that again, you have to tell me that that's not nice. You have to remind me that it's not a nice thing to do, you know, just like, you know, when you hit your brother, I remind you that that's not a nice thing to do. Like, you know, there have to be parallels there, too. And I think being able to create conscious conversations with my kids, and, you know, parallels even between what I'm doing and, you know, what they're doing with each other and what they're doing with their lives, and you know, all of that, like, I think that starts young. I don't think that we teach that to our kids when they're teenagers, right?

Casey O'Roarty 35:57
Well, and I love that, like, it's really helping them to connect the dots. Yeah, and I love that, and we've talked about that before on the podcast, just giving them permission to be our allies and to be our our helpers, our supporters, because life is messy, and this whole human thing is really messy, and we have to ask for help. And, you know, and being transparent, I think, is just so powerful, so powerful. So when you have people, and I'm guessing you probably have people that come to you and say, Well, I I've always, I've been thinking about yoga, or I've always wanted to do yoga, but here's what gets in my way. What are some baby steps that you support parents with so that they can give yoga a try?

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 36:48
Oh, yeah. Okay, so the first thing that I say to parents is very similar to what I said about the waking up earlier. I say start small. I think a lot of parents presume that they have to do like a 30 minute practice or an hour long practice, because that's what they do when they go to a yoga class. But that's not the case. I say start with five aim for five minutes and do your favorite pose, if like. And this is for people who've been to yoga before. So I want to, you know, create a little bit of clarity there. If you've been to yoga before, think about your very favorite pose, even if it's shavasana, like, which is, you know, for those who are not as yoga savvy, shavasana is that very final pose in yoga, which is basically like adult nap time, where you're lying on your back with your eyes closed, which I did not fully appreciate, by the way, until I was a parent. I just want to be 100% about that. But, you know, so for some people, it might be Child's Pose, or it might be shavasana, or it might be downward facing dog, or it might be cat cow. Doesn't really matter what it is. Do your favorite pose and then do it again, you know, and then do another pose that you remember. Doesn't matter what it is, you know. Again, it could be doing all of the like, lying down poses. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, this is for you. And just start there. I often, you know, like, I will suggest things to people you know, like doing cat cow or doing a sun salutation if they're more familiar, or do like, three standing poses. Like, there are a lot of ways that that, that you can use up that five minutes. But you know, usually I'll just say, like, these are some of the things you can do. Here are some ideas, like, pick your favorite poses. Do all of them. Set a timer, you know, set a timer for five minutes. When that timer is done, you're done, like, walk away. And you might be pissed off, like the timer's done. You're like, wait, wait. But I want more, you know, like, nope, call it good and walk away. Because the truth is, is that, you know, if you leave wanting more, you are so much more likely to do it tomorrow. Oh, I love that, you know, like, if, if, if you sort of keep going, and then you kind of run out of steam, you're just like, that was okay. Like, but if you leave sort of going, Wow, I really wish that I'd had more time. You are so much more likely to, you know, make the time for it, you know, to make your practice more of a priority. So that's kind of where I start. I personally have some resources for people who are newer to yoga. So I have a beginner series that's on YouTube. In my YouTube channel, it's just five videos, and they're all less than 20 minutes. I think most of them are 15 minutes, but it's kind of walking people through the, you know, foundational aspects of yoga, and breaking down some of these poses, because they can be really confusing.

Casey O'Roarty 39:39
I'll be sure to have Naomi's links to everything she's talking about in the show notes, for sure. Thank you, Thomas,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 39:45
all easy to get to. And I'm also going to be offering that as an email series, so that you know, because people go on YouTube and they'll do like that first beginner class, and they're like, that was fun, and then they won't do it the next day. So so I'm going to offer that as an. Email series too, so that people can get that in their inbox like every day, like these five classes. But I also have a free program called Transform chaos to calm, and it's a seven day program. It's actually technically eight days. I call it a seven day program, but it's, I'm kind of being sneaky, because there's one more like aspect to it, and it's daily yoga and meditation. And I teach in that free program how to do a five minute practice every day, basically based around one pose. So you get a single pose every single day, a video of me doing that pose, and then, like, some of the other poses that you could do with it, you know, like, what you what might you do if you only did downward facing dog like, what else would go really well with it, you know? And I give some, you know, hints for how to incorporate yoga into your practice and into your everyday and, you know, just some habit change sort of stuff in there. And I also offer daily meditations, you know, in the form of audios, so that people who want a little bit because usually people who do that program are like, I do a lot of yoga, but not enough meditation, or I'm pretty good at meditation, but I don't do yoga, so they kind of like use it to fill in the blanks. But in the very first part of that program, I teach people how to create a weekly mantra. And so the very first day is, how do I set myself up for the week ahead? You know? So a mantra. The word mantra simply means the two. It's a tool for your mind. Okay, so word man is, is like, Is your mind, is thoughts and tra, this is in Sanskrit, just by the way, made up. I could just

Casey O'Roarty 41:38
mantra according to Naomi, right? Totally, trust

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 41:42
me. But the word tra it, you can think of it as like a loom, you know, or a machine. So mantra is a machine for your thoughts. So it's a way for you to process your thoughts and to use a particular word or phrase to help you navigate your own thoughts and to move through your life or your week or your day a little bit more intentionally or skillfully. So I start with that in the free program, and then every day, you know, you get, like, a new a new pose to practice. And so what a lot of people have said is like, Oh, I didn't realize how easy it was to practice yoga. I just do one pose. It's awesome. And that's it, you know. So those two I think are, are my, my best tools for people who want to add a little bit of yoga into their lives.

Casey O'Roarty 42:31
Oh my gosh, I'm totally signing up for your seven day program. Is that something that's just like all the time, like downloadable, it's although not

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 42:38
quite yet I need to put a new website, but it's very interesting.

Casey O'Roarty 42:42
Soon. Okay, well, tell me when, and I'll make sure that this show goes out so that we can tell the people

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 42:47
it will be up by that time. I 100 promise.

Casey O'Roarty 42:53
All right, so in your own website, oh,

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 42:56
it's like, you know, it's crazy. I

Casey O'Roarty 42:58
know, believe me, I know so in the context of all that we've talked about today, what does joyful courage mean to you? Naomi, so

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 43:09
I love so part of the reason that I was so jazzed to be featured on your podcast is that I love the idea of joyful courage. I think, you know, when I think about joyful courage, you know, like, there's a part of me that is actually reminded of a dear friend of mine who died, not to get all dark and sad, but she loved climbing mountains. And, I mean, she was six feet tall. And, like, I mean, basically, like, all Amazon woman, you know, and she, like she would just take on everything with this zest for life, you know, and in everything that she did, you know. So whether it was climbing mountains or trying to raise a puppy or doing, you know, stream samples, you know, like checking water, it was just with this, you know, absolute, utter joy. But she was also, you know, like she would take on these challenges, and she would do it with just this like, you know, a life is meant to be lived and, and so I, you know, she, she passed away, actually, in 2005 so it's been quite a long time. She was young, so she was 23 she had not yet turned 24 and it was the same year that I got my yoga teacher training, and I try to live my life with that spirit. Now, you know, with the idea of like, you know, this zest for life, you know that things are going to be hard, things are going to be challenging, but damn it, I am going to climb that mountain. Because if I didn't, how would I feel, you know, if I didn't, you know, like, what, what would my life really feel like to me? And so that's sort of the try, the thing that I try to, you know, teach my. Kids, and it's really, you know, challenging, sometimes, you know, to encourage them to climb mountains. My kids are five and not yet two, but I want to share with them, because, you know, my five year old has has that in her. She has that unquenchable thirst for for life, and she is so joyful and so, like, I think of her when I think of joyful courage, I think of, you know, this idea that, like, life is meant to be lived, and it is not easy, and there are challenges, but those mountains are meant to be climbed no matter what. Yeah, and so, you know, that's I try to impart that to my kids, you know, even in the really mundane moments. You know, when we're sitting at home and watching TV instead of outside climbing the mountains, yeah, but you know, it's like, you know, what do you want to do? How do you want to live your life? You know, like joyful courage. I think that it's like, that is a beautiful vision of how I want to move through the world.

Casey O'Roarty 46:00
Thank you, beautiful. Well. And then finally, where can listeners find you and follow your work?

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 46:06
So I am super duper easy to find. I'm all over the interwebs everywhere. Although I am not the most tech savvy person, I'm working on it. So my website is conscious, healthy mama.com. You can find me there. You can find me under that same handle on Instagram and Facebook, and I'm pretty active on both of those. I'm on Twitter, but I don't really pay much attention to that. You and me both. It's like, it's a thing that, like, I use it more for activisty stuff, to be perfectly honest, I don't really like pay attention to it for business anymore, for like people. But on YouTube, I also have a YouTube channel. And my YouTube channel, I offer weekly yoga practices that are all less than 25 minutes, except for one, one that's more than 25 minutes long, but they're all really short, and they're free. So you know, if you want to start a yoga practice, I have practices that are meant for beginners. You know, they're almost entirely meant for beginners and people who are newer to yoga. I don't really offer any super duper advanced stuff on my YouTube channel. So you can find me there under Naomi Gottlieb Miller, that would be the easiest way to find me, although you can probably find me under conscious, healthy mama there as well. But the YouTube channel is Naomi codley Miller, so yeah. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 47:25
listeners, you know, we will have all of those links in the show notes, Naomi, thank you so much for coming on and talking to me today. This has been so fun.

Naomi Gottlieb–Miller 47:36
Oh, it's been super fun for me, too. Thank you for having me. I I've loved every second of it. Yay.

Casey O'Roarty 47:46
Joyful courage community, you're amazing. Big. Thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper. Be sure to join in the discussion over at the live in love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business page on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, or really, anywhere you find your favorite podcasts, you can view the current joyful courage swag over at the web page, intention, cards, bracelets. E course offers the membership program one on one coaching. It's all waiting for you to take a look. Simply head to www dot joyful courage.com/yes. That's joyful courage.com/y. E, S to find more support for your conscious parenting journey. Any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent to Casey at joyful courage.com. I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. Reach out, take a breath. Drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay

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