Eps 184: The Montessori Toddler with Simone Davies

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Casey O'Roarty 0:04
Hey, what is up podcast, listeners, I am so glad that you have found yourself at the joyful courage podcast. This is a place where we celebrate real and raw conversations about raising kids with conscious parenting and positive discipline. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, I'm a facilitator. I'm a parent coach. Most importantly, I am a mom of two teenagers, and I am walking the path of more mindful, intentional parenting right alongside of you. Please know that this podcast is created for you. I create it for you and for our community. And if you love it, feel free to share it with all of your family and friends over social media. Let's spread the word. Let's get as many people as possible listening to this show. Please write a review on Apple's podcast, formerly known as iTunes, and join the Patreon community, where parents, just like you are contributing just a small little amount each month to the show and enjoying perks like monthly webinars and community conversations about the content you hear on this podcast. Check the show notes for links and more details on all of that. I am so, so grateful that you are here and now enjoy the show. Hello, listeners. My guest today is Simone Davis. Simone is the author of the new book The Montessori toddler. Simone is an AMI Association, Montessori International, Montessori educator. She lives in Amsterdam, where she runs parent child Montessori classes at, oh, I should have asked you, Jacaranda. Tell me right. Is that right?

Simone Davis 1:52
Yeah, Jacaranda tree Montessori, there's a yellow, purple tree that grows in the southern hemisphere,

Casey O'Roarty 1:57
beautiful. So that is where she runs her parent child Montessori classes. And Simone is the author of a popular blog, the Montessori notebook. She is also mother to two young adults now. Listeners, I know I haven't been focusing many of my interviews on the early years, so this one goes out to all of you that are living with and loving your young kids. Hi Simone, welcome to the podcast.

Simone Davis 2:24
Hi Casey. Thank you so much for having me on, and I love your energy. So I'm so happy to be here and to share, yeah, my love of toddlers, yay.

Casey O'Roarty 2:30
Well, I am excited to tease it all apart with you. For sure, please share with the listeners a little bit more about your journey of doing what you do?

Simone Davis 2:41
Yes, it all began as it sometimes, often happens with Montessori teachers, that when I had my own children, I kind of was looking at schooling options for them, and they were still not even two years old, and I was thinking, I don't really want them to go to a traditional school where they just put up their hand and pass to see if it's in the test, and it's only to pass tests that I didn't. I was fine at school. I did really well. I got A's, but I actually didn't love school. So I wanted more. I'm an idealist. I wanted more for my own children, and so when we went to an open day at a Montessori Preschool, I fell in love. I was like, Oh, look at all these beautiful materials. Oh, look at this environment. It feels like a house. And look at the teachers. They're so kind and respectful, not only to the adults, but to the children who were present at the open day. And it wasn't really long before I was going to a parent child playgroup with my son, and then I was doing my Montessori training, and 15 years later, it feels like I'm a beginner still, and I'm just starting, but it was really Yeah, it's been such a beautiful process, and I love working with toddlers.

Casey O'Roarty 3:41
Yeah. God bless you. God bless anyone who wants to work with toddlers, is what I say. I too. Have we were talking before I hit record? My two children also started off in a Montessori classroom, and there is something really special walking in to the Montessori environment, where everything you know, in a world where everything is sized for adults, right? You walk into that classroom and it really, truly is sized for small people. Yeah,

Simone Davis 4:13
it feels so calm and inviting, because you realize that they live in the land of giants. I always tell parents who come to my classes when they're looking at their own houses to like, sit on the floor in their living room and see what it actually looks like for a two year old. And actually, mostly you see the legs of the dining room chairs and the artworks like really towering over them. And then we've got really high bookshelves with lots of clutter in them that feels quite overwhelming. And so when you go into a Montessori class, you'll be like, Oh, actually, I can take some of those ideas and put them into my home and just people rave. They say it changes how the whole dynamic in their house runs when they change their environment and start to follow their child and apply the same principles in home as well. It's

Casey O'Roarty 4:49
great. Yeah. So will you talk a little bit about what the Montessori philosophy is all about, especially, you know, considering there might be people listening who just, you know, they. May have seen the the word on schools that they've driven by in their town, but they might not know where does, where does the Montessori philosophy come from? What's it all

Simone Davis 5:08
about? Absolutely, so a traditional education, I say that that's following a curriculum, and in Montessori, it's an alternative education system where we're actually following each unique child on their own unique individual development. So it's a different way of schooling than a traditional approach, where the teacher stands in front of the classroom and lets everyone know what they need to learn today in a Montessori classroom, instead, you have the materials laid out in a sequence on the shelf, like in a maths area and in a language area and the cultural and geography these kind of things, and it's actually the children that are allowed to choose the activities where what they'd like to work on, and the teacher then acts as a guide instead. So if they're missing a certain area of the classroom, how to engage them in that area, or to give them the lesson where they're up to once they've mastered it. And it's not chaos, because you actually have mixed age classrooms with, say, three to six year olds in one class. So the six year olds are modeling and helping the younger children and the three year olds learn so naturally, because they can observe an older child doing the activity, and then by the time they reach that, it's really very natural and easy for them to absorb that

Casey O'Roarty 6:16
one thing that I appreciate about Montessori that overlaps, I mean, so much overlaps with the positive discipline philosophy as well. But one of the things that I really just was in awe of as I watched the teachers in my children's classrooms was the tool of taking time for training. And you know, like you're talking about, there's all these different curriculum or topic areas, right, math and language and geography and world things, and you know, as far as, and there's all these, I love that, Montessori, you call activities work, right? It's your work. I love that, you know, but I really appreciate that the simplest things are broken down in a way that really creates a space where, like you said, it's not chaos. I mean, I think my kids, they had like 20 kids in their class and two teachers, and they're, you know, and they're all making their own choices. And you would think like, oh my gosh, how is that not pandemonium? But you, as a Montessori Teacher, do a lot of front loading with training the kids in how to be in the space. Can you talk a little bit about that and about taking time for training and why it's so important, and something we often, I think, forget, we just expect, and then we're like, why are you doing it right

Simone Davis 7:37
exactly? And even the step before training the children is preparing the environment, the classroom, because we have activities that are laid out with everything they need at the ready so that they can actually manage it themselves and see what's available. And each of the activities then builds onto the next one. So you don't just start a child on multiplication, they will have done such a series of activities before they even get to that point, so that also breaks it down into simple steps for them to digest it and master it and then be ready for the next step. But things like, you have a really gentle way of showing a child, for example, how to take a tray to the table is actually like what we call a presentation, and it seems so silly, but it's if you don't actually show a child how to carry a tray with two hands, then they're going to kind of carry it with one hand like a grown up will, and it will spill everywhere. And then, okay, that didn't work out. How can I do it better? And you may even find that if that does happen, and it does, they don't, they're not like robots and do it perfectly every time. Then older children often rush over and help the younger ones to put things back onto the tray and help them to the table. And then once they're finished an activity, how they would put it back on the shelf, because everything has a special place, and even to replace, like the piece of paper, so that it's ready for the next person. And by doing these things, it's it actually builds, not like if everyone thinks of independence and when they think of Montessori, because we're teaching children to do things for themselves. But I actually also think there's an enormous amount of community, because you're looking after the materials ready for your friends, and that's something that, you know, people are thinking of now, oh, we actually it's really important that we show people how to carry for each other. And I love that that's always been incorporated into the Montessori approach for the last 100 years. So it's not just adding values later. It's building the skills and showing children how to look after their environment as well, and even things like looking after the plants. So if we were showing a child how to water the plants, there's a little watering can, and with the watering can, there'll be a little sponge, because there will be spills, and show them how to carry the watering can over to the plant and how to move the leaves if necessary, to get it into the soil. And then, if there's any drops, how you sponge it up. And then you can go on and look for another plant, or you might put the watering can back. So, yeah, those kind of ways of teaching the little steps is exactly what you were talking about. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 9:51
I love that. I just and I talk about this even, you know, with the parents of teenagers that I work with, we make so many assumptions. Is about kids, about what they can do, about what they can't do, about what they're thinking, about how they're feeling. And, you know, something as simple as breaking down the steps really takes that assumption piece out. And I think, in the long run, saves us from a lot, saves both child and parent from a lot of frustration. So I really, really appreciate that. So you wrote this book, the Montessori toddler, and it's a parent's guide to raising a curious and responsible human being. It's about bringing Montessori into the home environment. So what drove you to want to share about the benefits of this? And I, you know, even as I say that, I'm thinking about, you know, there's the school, like, we, I think we, we compartmentalize, right? Like, what can happen at school, what happens at home, you know? And, and I was, as I was reading your book, I was also thinking about how, you know, when we quote child proof our house, we take things and we move them higher up so they're out of reach. And I love the shift in thinking about, you know, quote, child proofing. I don't think we'd call it child proofing like, I don't know what we'd call it like, child inviting our house, because that's a really big diff. It's a mindset shift.

Simone Davis 11:21
Yeah, it really is. I love what you were saying as well, about actually having to show them things like that. It's a long term game. Because actually, I think going back to our earlier thing about taking the time to show them all the steps, sometimes we're giving instructions from across the room, saying it goes in the bin, it goes in the bin. And for a young toddler, they don't necessarily even know where the bin is, or they're forgotten or they're distracted by something. So it might mean you actually have to get up, tap the bin and say it goes in here. But in the long run, they learn where the bin is and that they know next time when they squeeze their orange juice that the skin will go into the bin. So yeah, that's I love that kind of stuff as well. So yeah, the benefits of a Montessori approach, it all like when I was introduced to one story, I was at a parent child class, and I realized, oh, a lot of these principles will really help if I do them at home as well. And so the people who come to my classes are like, how come they listen to her? So I want to know how I can do that as well. Or, yeah, my child's really engaged when they're in class. Here, I'm going to see if I can apply those principles at home. And people asked me, like, oh, what book should I read about? You know, introducing these ideas at home. Because I really like it. I like how simple it is, but how engaging it is. And yeah, how can I make my house more inviting, as you say, without it also being chaos? And so that's how the book kind of came about. And yeah, after 15 years of working in Montessori, it was really lovely to really realize that, yeah, there's a whole book of information like Dr Montessori books are lovely and rich, but they're very hard to get into and also hard to apply. How would I do that at home? So I made it a very practical, easy to read guide for parents. I

and so then there's not that division between school and home. And even if your children don't go to Montessori school, you can still apply principals. So some people might start in a Montessori Preschool, so as such as your children and then go on traditional school. So how can I still apply some of the Montessori approach, even if they're in a different schooling system. But when they are in a Montessori school, you also find that they support each other so well. So if you have a child who has learned to dress themselves at home, then when they go to their Montessori classroom, they'll be able to, you know, use the bathroom independently and wipe their nose for themselves. And then, if you're you don't go to a Montessori school, you'll still get the benefit of, like your children being resourceful enough to, you know, be able to pack their bag themselves for class, you know, to go to school. Or, you know, I had one mum saying, yeah, she's bringing home her lunch box, and it's full. And I said, Have you thought about asking her if she'd like to make her own lunch? Because then she'll be able to know what her stomach wants. And she said that she did it, and all of a sudden, her lunch was being eaten. She didn't have to make the lunch. They'd been taken away, you know, this battle in their family, and the child was in primary school, not, I think you call it Elementary in the US, yeah. And so a young a young child, can be so capable if you set things up and work with them. And of course, it's not like the child made their sandwich all by themselves on their first day or their lunch. But they scaffold the skills on, like we said before, like building the steps, showing them along the way.

Casey O'Roarty 14:27
Yeah, an exam. So I love the making their own lunch. Everyone. Your children should be making their own lunch. Okay, I just want to put that out there. That's my PSA, they can do it. Train them, teach them. So one of the things that's showing up right now. So my son's 13. He's in seventh grade. He's been making his lunch since kindergarten, and I noticed like, he's really reluctant to like the sandwich is always the last thing that gets made, and it's the thing that we anyway, we have conversations about the sandwich. And then finally, I realized that I. Cheese in these big blocks. And even though he's 13, it's kind of it's challenging to cut this block of cheese. And so I said to him, he's like, can't you just buy it already sliced? I'm like, I am not going to spend the extra money, you know? And then I but then I thought, You know what? But I could slice it like I could slice it and then put it in the bag, and then when it's time for you to make your lunch, it becomes, you know, the sandwich becomes less of a challenge for you. And you know, just one simple thing like that has released him from this feeling of discouragement because this block of cheese is so hard to cut, which is a small example, but it's so it's also so fascinating, because it would have been really easy for me to assume that he was, you know, being lazy or defiant, or any of the other words that we like to use to define teenagers. But no, really, he was discouraged. And I think when I think, you know, when I think about toddlers and parents and the dance that we can get into, I feel like toddlerhood is a it can be a very discouraging time for parents who don't understand development and are doing the best they can with the tools they have, but often creating discouragement for The toddler and then it's just this, like ongoing exchange of discouragement and, you know, and it's like, oh my gosh, I just have to live through this. Instead of what a fun age, I say that. I say that having a 13 and a 16 year old, what a fun age, that was, yes, and it was challenging. But what do you think gets in the way for parents, as far as seeing the gifts that the toddler years bring,

Simone Davis 16:45
yeah, I think we start to think that toddlers are giving us a hard time when actually it's them having a hard time. And when we see that it's not personal, they're not trying to wind us up, then we can actually step back and see. How can I help them? Right now? So it doesn't seem very convenient when your child throws a tantrum in the middle of the supermarket or at home when the spoons are not available that they really wanted. And it's like you say that we don't understand why toddlers need to do it. They need to say no because they need to start to be independent of their parents. So they're in this crisis of independence. So some days you'll find it's like, me do it. Me do it, and they want to be super independent, and then the next day they're probably going next day, they're kind of like, oh, you know, Mama, do it. Mama, do it. Yeah, you just kind of like, Just make up your mind. But it's so hard for them because they're in a process of separation, which is going, like, on an up and down, you know, it's not a straight line by any stretch of the imagination. So I really like to encourage parents to take a step back, and Dr Montessori worked in medicine before she moved into education. So she was the scientist, and would observe the children who were in her classroom and make notes, like in a very factual way. So if you remember in biology at school, you kind of described a plant growing towards the window, so you had to measure it and say it was five centimeters towards the window, and the color of the leaves is this. And you had to be very specific and not like the plants growing really well, or this one didn't do well at all. You know, you'd get no marks. So what she did was did the same with children, like, oh, look, John is moving. He's carrying the tray with two hands. He takes it to the table, and she describes it in a very factual way. And parents say, well, what's the point of all that? But when you actually observe children in this more factual way, almost like sports cards sting if you don't, or you can write it down, then you actually learn to see more detail, like what they're capable of, what is holding them back, like, what's the bit that is getting the way, a bit like the block of cheese. So had you not noticed that the block of cheese was the problem, then you don't know how much help to give them. Or, yeah, like you say, he's being defiant. And the other thing, I think, is also, is like, if you practice that in neutral times of observing your child, then when they really are throwing themselves on the ground, and in a tantrum, you can be, oh, he's lying on the floor. I can see something's not going right. Oh, I see that that noise was really big and gave him a fright, or he's feeling cornered by that person, or then you can actually see how you can help them a lot more.

Casey O'Roarty 19:06
I love that. I talk a lot of well, the practicing in the neutral time, I think is so so so important. Because, you know, if we decide, okay, well, I'm gonna pay more attention when they're throwing a fit and then they're throwing a fit, and are we paying attention? People know we're like, Gosh darn it, why are you throwing a fit? What's your problem, right? Instead of

Simone Davis 19:24
offer them like these gentle hands and say, I'm so sorry that you're having a hard time right now, I'm going to pick you up and remove you from this situation and just, I'm going to actually come back to this later. Or do you know what? We actually don't have time. I'm just going to lie you here. You're safe. I'm getting the things off the shelf. We're finishing our shopping, and I can see you're having a hard time. Imagine if you were a toddler and had that response instead. It's different, isn't

Casey O'Roarty 19:45
it? Yeah, definitely. It's a lot different. Hey, y'all, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just want to make sure that everybody knows that my book joyful, courage, calming the joy. Drama and taking control of your parenting journey is now available pre sale. It's available, and if you order it now, before May 20, you also will receive the companion guide, which is kind of like a journal. It's a download that you can print out and have next to you as you read the book to support you in really taking the learning deep into your life, applying it to your situation, your challenges, your family, and it'll be ever more helpful. So get your hands on this book. Go to joyful courage.com/book and there will be directions there on how to get the book and how to get your bonus companion guide. I'm so humbled and honored that I get to support you in this way, and I'm super excited to hear about how the book lands for you. And I think, you know, when I was listening to, of course, I can't help but draw the parallels between toddler and teen, but that, I think that we also find ourselves there with our teenagers when, you know, I'm independent, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it, and then the next day, will you do it? I wanna, need you to do it. And that push pull even happens later on. And I know what I hear from parents, and what I experience myself is that question of when to lean in and when to let go, right? And that, you know, and it's mostly with the youngest kids I hear well, if I don't do anything, or if I don't, you know, there's this idea that being an observer is somehow permissive, right? Like when letting them get away well, we can't let them lay on the floor. Simone, are you kidding me at the store? We can't let them get away with that. We can't. Then they'll think that that's okay, right? Which I get is a totally like, it's missing the point. But talk to me a little bit about that dance with parents that we have. Yeah,

Simone Davis 22:08
I think that's so true. For one thing, it's like, I say in Montessori, we help them as much as necessary and as little as possible. So that also kind of like, that battle between us is like, okay, he doesn't want to put his shoes on. I might say, Oh yeah, I'll come help you, but I'm just opening his shoe, and then I actually step back and he takes over the rest of it. So it's like, you slice the bit of cheese. You didn't make the whole sandwich for him. And eventually you might even say, you know, I'm slicing the cheese in the morning, but maybe we could just do that in the afternoon. When we get home, we can have a box in the fridge, and then it's already sliced, and whoever wants to grab it, it's done. And you know, then you can even outsource that bit of the job. But it just is in the morning, when they're all tired, they don't actually want to do it. So again, we're helping as much as we need to, but as little as necessary be so that they can take over more and more steps for themselves. I also like to say and that like, vacillation between wanting you to do it and wanting to do it themselves is also like, do you want to cook every night of the week? Do you want to wash up every night of the week? Sometimes we just want a day off. So sometimes I kind of give them a bit of slack as well and say, Oh, today you don't really feel like it. And you know, then you might open an interesting conversation, and you're like, Do you know what I'll help you tonight. But if it became like every night they're complaining, then it's something that you'd kind of put a limit on and say, You know what? I was happy to oh, this happened actually, with my teenagers. I have a 18 year old and a 16 year old, and it was about breakfast time, and I was like, going up and saying, Guys, it's breakfast time, and we have a house with stairs. And I was getting sick of kind of taking over. I was becoming the mom alarm. And I was like, How come? Let's come on me. I don't know where this kind of slipped in. And so happens,

Casey O'Roarty 23:41
I'm glad to hear that happens to you too.

Simone Davis 23:44
Like, wait a minute Exactly. And then one day you kind of like, Oh, I'm really angry about this. Like, actually, it's not their fault. It wasn't clear to them that, actually, I'm done with being the mom alarm, and they have an alarm in their room, and so I'd like them to take the responsibility for it. And if I have a conversation with them, not in the morning, but at a neutral time, then I can kind of talk to them about it. Oh, you know how late lately I've been coming upstairs to have to wake you up. Is there a way that we can work out? And then my children have come up with such complicated systems, like, Hey, I'm going to have one alarm when I turn it off, then I go back to sleep, then I have another one when I do this. And they have like a system of like, five or 10 alarms, but they've worked it out themselves, and it's really good. And then with younger children that kind of when do I when am I allowing their behavior and when am I telling them it's not okay? Basically, for me, Montessori is somewhere in between. We call it freedom within limits. So the children have a lot of freedom in the classroom to choose, but the limit would be like, we can't go and just grab that toy off somebody else who's playing with it. You know, we're going to wait our turn, and so we won't let someone hit another child. So that's a safety thing. So at some time, when I would set a clear limit, but very much like positive discipline, we send kind and clear limits. So I don't go in there and shout at them and say, You shouldn't, you know, hit the other child. I'm saying it's my job to keep everybody safe. And then I would set the limit like, I'm not going to let you hit the. And but if you're frustrated, you can go outside and run or, you know, is it wise? Are they hitting, or are you really sad? Because you were working with that and they wanted to have a turn, you can use your words. And then I would kind of give them a way that they can deal with these conflict situations in a more respectful way, building the skills again. So it's kind of given them a lot of freedom. But then I'm also really clear. And I also talk to parents about, what are your limits? You know, because if you're just making it up on the spot, it's going to look really flippy floppy. If one day you say no ice cream, and the next It's okay. So decide, Is it okay to have ice cream in our family? It's actually okay to have two ice creams a week in summer, because we really like ice cream. But I also know that if I have more than two ice creams a week. It's not really getting on the healthy side of things. And so we just have a kind of fun, you know, balance for ourselves, because then you can say yes, and it's fun to say yes to ice cream and not have to always say no or find a healthy, vegan version, if that's, you know, you're worried about, you know, health and those kind of things. But I don't mind the good old fashioned ice cream. So

Casey O'Roarty 25:58
I don't mind ice cream, either Simone. In fact, I really like it. So what about talking specifically about toddlers and their emerging language? Right? Sometimes I hear from parents, you know, because, again, the overlap, the Montessori overlap with positive discipline. A lot of our work, whether we're taking time to train or being curious about what has happened, or engaging kids and talking about how something made them feel. There's this idea that language, that their language, has to be at a certain place, that they have to be able to articulate things, but I am guessing that you would say something different. Yeah,

Simone Davis 26:45
so I actually has studied my Montessori training, and it's from birth right through toddlerhood, and from the very youngest age, I'm talking to the little babies about how they're feeling so if they're crying, I'm using a lot of questions like, Oh, are you telling me that your T shirts pulling up right now, or your nappies wet? Should we go and have a look at that? And even a conversation with a two week old baby could be that you poke out your tongue, and if you watch, they really try and stick their tongue out to you as well, and then you do it back. So it's really lovely to recognize that they're trying to communicate, and we're already teaching them conversation from such a young age. Dr Montessori also recognized that children under six has an absorbent mind, so they're basically like a sponge. And so we tell them, Oh, this is an apple and this is a banana. But we don't take the time to say, Oh, look, there's a Labrador, there's a golden retriever, there's a West Highland area, or whatever name of dog. So we can give really rich language around any kind of theme. You could even say what going for a walk in the park? Oh, look at that acorn, you know. And I wonder what tree that comes from. And you could talk about oak trees, and if you know. And then all of a sudden you realize how limited you are in your own vocabulary. You're like, I'm gonna have to look that up. I don't know what bird that is. So I find that really lovely, and it's amazing the connections that you see like a toddler make. So you might be reading a book about an octopus, and all of a sudden the child will jump up, run over to the basket, and they've like, got found an octopus in the classroom, and they've brought it back and matched it. So you can see that even if they can't say the word octopus, they're making those language connections. And their receptive communication is even greater than their verbal communication. So we just keep realizing that they've got an absorbent mind, like a sponge. And I always say to provide a really rich language environment, and an environment where they feel safe to try. So if they say, but the ball, I say, Oh, you wanted to show me the ball. So I don't correct them, but I just say it back to them in a way that uses it in a correct pronunciation. So it's always a very supportive environment. We never kind of say no to a child who's learning. We just kind of keep giving the same information again and again and then they self correct it over time, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 28:58
again and again and again and again. I mean, I think that that's one of the things, right? Like, that's, that's something for parents who are feeling frustrated, I think to remember is to just get comfortable with repeating yourself, because if repeating yourself is a problem for you, you're going to be very frustrated through your entire parenting journey.

Simone Davis 29:18
Yeah, people will say, Oh, my child's going through a hitting phase. And I'm just like, I understand. And you might just have to keep saying, I can't let you hit. I can't let you hit. But the more that you're calm and clear and you know, you're consistent, okay, I'm going to put the child down now and show them that I'm hurt. And then one thing I forgot to mention earlier is about not is making amends at the end as well. So say the toddler is throwing themselves on the ground, and rather than them learning that this is okay, the thing that makes it not okay is that if they actually have, you know, thrown things off the supermarket shelf, or they've hit me and I'm really sore I am once they've calmed down, you know, like Diane Siegel talks about the prefrontal cortex, and that you flip your lid and once the lid kind of comes. On again, and if not, maybe you can put that in the show notes to video.

Casey O'Roarty 30:03
Yeah, no, I talk about it a lot, and I will put it in the show notes to remind everybody where to find it. So thank you.

Simone Davis 30:08
Yeah, you know to calm down once they've calmed down. And toddlers, particularly, you hear them kind of have that big sigh like that, and then you're like, Okay, now the prefrontal cortex is ready to hear, like, I'm really hurt. Can you see this red mark? And then, like sometimes they kiss it better. Sometimes they might go and get you a wet cloth. Maybe not. If you're at the supermarket, we don't force them to apologize, but we're showing them how to make amends, so that, again, in this absorbent mind, they're learning how you do right? If they've tipped things off the shelf, then we're going to help place everything back as best they can. You know, we're helping them. If they've scribbled at home on the walls, then again, once they've calmed down, then they make amends. And you can also do that with older kids too. So for example, my son had a friend to sleep over, and they asked if they could use some marker pens in once they'd gone to bed. And I said, Yeah, no problem. That's fine, but in the morning, there was marker pen all over the sheets, and I didn't want to be like this strict parent. I go, Oh, you're never allowed to have a friend over again and get really angry about it. But I also didn't want to kind of say, oh, that's fine, don't worry. I'll just wash it. So in one story, we get them to make amends. I'm like, You know what, guys, we're going to really need to clean those sheets. Can you grab them off the beds? So they grab them off the beds. And then I got a bucket of water and some soap, and they were there with the cloths, like, trying to rub it off. And I'm like, Okay, I think we've got most of it off. Let's put it in the washing machine. We put in the washing machine and then the next time they the next time that kid came over to sleep over, you know, it just wasn't a problem. It's kind and clear they know exactly that. I'm not going to let them get away with everything. But I'm also not being super bossy and mean about it. It's just life happens, and I'm going to help you to make that bride again. Yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 31:37
I love thinking about making amends for the sake of making amends. Versus like, you should feel bad, you know, there's that message of, well, you did something wrong, you should feel bad about it, so you better, you know, make it right. Versus like, this is a life skill, like we screw up, and personal responsibility is something that, you know, I'm always trying to move towards in my own personal life, and absolutely something that I want my kids to move towards, and it doesn't have to be coupled with added commenting by me saying, like, look what you've done. I can't believe you've done this. How could you, you know, or even the toddler, and you know, I think even with the toddler falling apart at the grocery store, yes, you know, putting things back where they were. But also if we, you know, because often a flipped lid is contagious, and sometimes we aren't our best Montessori parent, positive discipline parent, and we get a little snappy and unkind. And you know, once that prefrontal cortex is back on for both people to come back and say, even to our youngest kids, it wasn't okay for me to say that to you, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I was hurtful. And the next time you're having a hard time at the grocery store, this is what I'm going to do to help myself so that I can help you better. And again, it's that that modeling that I so appreciate. They have to see the skills modeled to be able to then learn to embody them over and over and over again, right? Yeah, I love

Simone Davis 33:07
that idea of the do over. It's like, what I should have said is this, and what I should have done is this, and you can really model that for kids. Okay, we didn't get it right first time, but next time, I'm going to try again. And also, what I really like is with the making amends. It's related to the thing that happened, because some people say, Well, you were misbehaved, so then three days later, you're not going to be able to go to the zoo. It's like, for a total of particularly that is so unrelated, and so far, like it's there's no relationship, where, if someone's done something to hurt someone, it's like, how would you make it up to them? And yeah, so I think that it's a lifelong skill, and I also love that in teenagehood, we're still using the same principles, and so, yeah, you never it what I love. You lay the groundwork now with toddlers, and then you get it back when they're teenagers, and you'll still use them from time to time. You'll need the same skills. I remember when my son first rolled his eyes at me. He was about 10 years old. I'm like, I quickly went and ordered the positive discipline for teenagers book. I'm like, oh, I need to know what to do. And when I read it, I went, Oh, these are actually the same principles, because they're so much the same. And also I use the same skills with adults. It's really just how to communicate in an effective, respectful way,

Casey O'Roarty 34:16
totally How to Be a human. Yeah. What would you say is the most important thing for parents of young children to know in order to shift into the Montessori mindset? Okay,

Simone Davis 34:29
I think it's really about trusting your child that they're on their own unique timeline and that they're they're different to everybody else. Every if you have two children, you'll know that they're different. Even though you're parenting them, they'll have a different experience. But to trust that your child will develop the best way they will be. So I like to think of a toddler as a little seedling, that you're planting the seeds, right, and you're growing this human being and this little seed, actually, I think even in positivism, they have a similar exercise that you think you look at a. Plant. And you say, Can I turn this plant into a cactus? You can't turn into a cactus, but you can make it the best version of that plant that it can be. And I think of us as planting that seed as well and nurturing it so that we really recognize that each star is individual. How can I support and help them become the best version of themselves?

Casey O'Roarty 35:16
Oh, I love that. And I love that because it transcends the early years. You know, I think that they continue to grow, and we continue to nurture and be curious and be in wonder of all that they are and who they are becoming. And, yeah, oh, thank you for that. I don't know that positive discipline talks about it like that. So I really appreciate that. Well, my last question that I love to end with is, what does joyful courage mean to you? Simone,

Simone Davis 35:48
yeah, so I love that there's joy in that, in the title of your podcast, joyful courage. Because I do think you can bring joy back into parenting. Like when you think of parenting a toddler, like you mentioned, it can be hard work, but actually, when you see the world through your child's eyes and see that they're not trying to give you a hard time, but they're just kind of super curious, they grab that toy out of that child's hand because they want to play with it right now, that's as simple as it is. It's not that they're trying to be naughty, and so the courage to follow your child support them like I'm not going to let you take that toy. Let's wait together, but in a very kind and gentle way, and then you'll just find you're more relaxed as a parent, and you'll enjoy seeing what your toddler can show you, because they have so much to show us about being in the present moment. They'll spot those weeds growing up through the pavers as you walk down the street. They remind us to really slow down and to enjoy every bit of life, because I even just used to spend half an hour going to get the newspaper with my son, and we'd walk across the road. It was a block, but it was such a delight to just slow down and enjoy all those little moments and those little toddling legs. I just yeah, I'm so grateful for that that time and that I didn't let it pass me by.

Casey O'Roarty 37:01
Where can listeners find you and follow your work?

Simone Davis 37:04
And if they can go to my website, which is the Montessori notebook.com and that's got more information about the book and all my social media kind of handles I hang out mostly on Instagram, so they can find the link there. Too.

Casey O'Roarty 37:16
Great. And so, and the book is coming out as the book isn't out yet, right?

Simone Davis 37:20
It will be officially out 19th of March, so it's very soon, on the shelves in your local bookstore or via Amazon like a favorite retailer. Yay.

Casey O'Roarty 37:30
All right, listeners, I will make sure that all those links are in the show notes so that you can keep up with Simone and get your hands on this really beautiful book. So thank you for all the work that you do in the world, and thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

Simone Davis 37:46
Thank you Casey, keep spreading that very happy spirit of yours. It goes a long way. Thank you

Casey O'Roarty 37:55
joyful courage community. Thank you so much for tuning in each and every week, big thanks and love to my team, including my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper, be sure to join the discussion over at the live and love with joyful courage group page, as well as the joyful courage business pages on Facebook and Instagram. Subscribe to the show through Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, iHeartRadio, really anywhere you find your favorite podcast. Also, I mentioned Patreon at the beginning of the show. Check it out. Www.patreon.com/joyful courage. This is where you can contribute to the show and take advantage of patron perks like content rich monthly webinars and deeper discussions about what's being shared on the podcast, you will like it. Www, dot P, A, T, R, E, O n.com/joyful. Courage, any comments or feedback about this show or any others can be sent. Casey at joyful courage.com. I personally read and respond to all the emails that come my way. So reach out. You can also sign up for my bi weekly newsletter at joyful courage.com just go to the website. Sign up for that. Take a breath, drop into your body, find the balcony seat and trust that everyone is going to be okay. Big Love to each and every one of You have a beautiful rest of your day

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