Eps 223: Decolonizing Parenting With Yolanda Williams

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Casey O'Roarty 0:04
Hello and welcome. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and aren't afraid of getting super messy with it. I'm your host, Casey awardee, positive discipline trainer, parent coach, and in the trenches of the parenting journey with my own two teenagers, each week, I come at you with a solo show or an interview. You can be sure that the guests on the podcast have something important to say, and I am honored to have you listen in as I pick their brains about what it is that they are passionate about. If you are a parent looking to grow while walking the path of parenting. If you're open to learning new things, if your relationship with yourself and your kids is something you are interested in diving deeper into, then this is the place for you. After you listen, I would love to hear from you. Head over to iTunes and leave a five star review, letting others know what you love about the show, or feel free to shoot me an email at Casey, at joyful courage.com, I love hearing from listeners, and I'm always quick to respond if you want to be sure not to miss any of the happenings going on with joyful courage. Join my list. You'll stay updated on the podcast and events that are happening for parents, both online and live, you can join the list at WWW dot joyful courage.com/join. Yay. So glad you're here. Enjoy the show. This podcast is supported by better help. Parenting is hard. Most of us find ourselves in seasons where we experience anger, anxiety, isolation, we feel alone, like we're the only ones that are having a hard time. BetterHelp is the online resource that we all need. It's counseling. BetterHelp matches you with a professional licensed therapist that is trained in all the things that come to the surface for us, parents, not everybody has the time or resources to seek out a counselor. BetterHelp is affordable and allows you to connect via phone, text or video conference. Guess what? Parenting challenges don't go away. We have to nurture ourselves so that we can show up for the people that we love, and now you can get 10% off your first month of better help. When you use the code joyful courage, go to www.betterhelp.com/joyful, courage, to get 10% off your first month, you deserve it. You'll be so glad you did it. I promise that's www.betterhelp.com/joyful, courage.

Hey, listeners, my guest today is Yolanda Williams. At 37 Yolanda was blessed with her first child after years of believing that she would never have children. She's a single mom, so things are a little bit hectic over there as she juggles momming and her home based business and taking care of herself, conscious parenting is really close to her heart, and she knows what it feels like to grow up without a voice and with violence as a consequence. Raising a black child in a world filled with white supremacy can seem insurmountable at times, but she firmly believes that conscious parenting is activism against racism. Yolanda is raising a carefree child to be her authentic self, unafraid to use her voice to stand up to oppression with unshakable confidence and self love. Yolanda wants to help teach other parents to do the same. She's the co founder of conscious parenting time, whose mission it is to decolonize minds by teaching the art of conscious parenting to raise intellectually, spiritually and socially free black children. She is also the host of parenting decolonized, a podcast on a mission to shine the light on how colonization has impacted the black family structure and what to do about it. I am so thrilled and honored to welcome you to my show. Hi Yolanda,

Yolanda Williams 4:06
Hi Casey. Thanks so much for having me. I really I'm so excited to be here.

Casey O'Roarty 4:10
I am so excited to have you. Will you please fill in the gaps a little bit and share more about your journey of doing what you do?

Yolanda Williams 4:17
Yeah. So you know conscious parenting in this whole decolonizing journey. I really only got on it when I got pregnant, and I'd always been super, like pro black and, you know, really just fist in the air type person, the kind of people that that my family actually has a problem with, they always told me to be quiet, so I'm embarrassing them. But I don't get embarrassed by talking about race. I've always been that person, but I really never understood people's passion about it until I had GIA, my daughter, and just all the things that are happening in the world and things that have happened to me, I just thought about it, and I was just like, I don't want her to grow up, not. Loving herself. I don't want her to grow up not understanding that she has a voice that she can use for change. How can I parent her so she basically is her best self, and that's what that's what led me to conscious and positive discipline. Then that kind of led me on a decolonizing journey. Because I was just like, Well, where are all the black folks talking about this? You know, yeah, I started following all these pages, and I was just like, I don't see any imagery of black children. I don't see them talking about how it is a different experience. It's a, you know, parenting a black child in this country is completely different experience than for white people or any any other even for other people of color, just because of our country's history. So that's when I got into like, Okay, well, since there's this void there, I've always been that really, that kind of person that's like, let me fill this void. And that's when conscious parenting time started with crystal, my co founder. But then I want to take it a step further with parents to decolonize, because I'm really outspoken when it comes to race. I mean, we're Facebook friends, but you see my phone, I do. I don't care if I

Casey O'Roarty 6:07
make you uncomfortable. Yeah, it's good.

Yolanda Williams 6:11
I don't care. Yeah, it is. It's funny, because I was just at an exhibit, a 90s exhibit out here in Arkansas at the Clinton Museum, and I'm going through like, this book of like, Teen Magazine from the 90s, and I was just like, wow, this is the whitest magazine I've ever there was no and I'm saying this out loud, and my sister's like, You're embarrassing us. I'm just like, why are you embarrassed by the truth? Right? I'm not here to make anybody else feel comfortable with with the truth of racism. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable. So that's why I started parenting decolonized, because I wanted just to really talk to black parents and just be like, this is, this is why a lot of us resort to physical punishment. This is why a lot of us resort to verbal verb, you know, verbal demeaning and stuff like that. This is there's there's history, there's things rooted in enslavement and colonization that we need to unpack. And then what I'm finding is there's so many, I mean, most of my fans on Facebook are white women. It's actually really awesome. I'm talking to white I'm talking to black people specifically, but a lot of white people feel comfortable enough to join the conversation, and I really appreciate that

Casey O'Roarty 7:25
good Yeah, well, I'm one of them. I'm one of the white women, and I'm so that's how I found you. You

Yolanda Williams 7:31
know that podcast that you did, that's how I found you. I was just like, Okay, there's somebody talking about race, because I say this. I said this before. People care more about likes than lives. So you're more you don't, you don't want to disrupt, you know, you don't want people in your DM saying, I thought this was a parenting right? You know, a parenting page. It's sort of sort of insulting people say that, like, okay, you know, black folks are parents too, but you were willing to take that risk, and that's why I was like, okay, I can, I can get with her

Casey O'Roarty 7:59
well. And, you know, I appreciate you talking about that whole discomfort piece, because I think that, for one I appreciate anyone. I'm always in awe of people who are really outspoken and, you know, come from that place of it's, it's not my problem. If you're uncomfortable. I am a chronic people pleaser. I mean, my family might be like what, but, you know, for the general public, I noticed that I it is deeply uncomfortable for me to create waves, and we live in this context that cannot be. I can't ignore the context that we live in. So my audience is mostly white parents. And I, you know, I believe that for many of us were so cut off from the experience of of parenting, the, you know, inside of other cultures within the larger society, because of the bubbles that most of us live in. Like I live in a town that is, you know, 99% white. And so it would be really easy for me to say, well, this doesn't affect me, because I'm not, I'm not mingling very much, and then to expand it and recognize and this was something that I was exposed to in college, when I was going through Teacher Education. We read an article about unpacking the white backpack, or something like that. But it was a it was a class around education and race, and it highlighted how you know you I walk into a grocery store and everything around me, from the imagery on the boxes of food to the magazines to the people in line with me, it's all reflecting back to me, my own experience of being white, and it never occurred to me that that was a thing, you know, turn on the TV, although it's getting a lot more diverse now, you still have to, you know, make a point of seeking out, you know, shows with more diversity. With more diversity. But I just think it's so important for everyone who hasn't really kind of woken up to the fact that there that popular culture, you know, so much of popular culture is white, and just that that, in and of itself, carries a message with it. So I'm just really excited for this opportunity to have you on and for all of us to expand and recognize the narrowness of our white experience and to expand that lens to include the not just the consideration like that just feels so small. Oh, and I want to say straight up, right, like I also am blind to my blindness. So I'm sure that throughout this conversation I'm going to have moments where I'm going to say, man, let me try to say that differently or like, that didn't really land the way I meant for it to land, because also, I want to be an example of, like, just stepping into sometimes, the awkwardness that comes with having these conversations. So thank you. Yeah, thank you for being I mean, okay with that.

Yolanda Williams 11:04
It could be so awkward, and that's why, you know, I have the stance on when I'm on, when I'm posting about race on my page, that if I feel like you are generally asking a question, and I don't feel like you're trying to center yourself when you asking this question, I will politely answer it, but my job is not to educate White people on racism. That's not the job of any person of color that that place, that space that I've created is actually not is for black people. But, you know, I put on this, I put this on the conscious parenting page, like, you're welcome here, but it's not centering you. It's centering black parents and and so. But what I want is for when people ask questions, to feel like they're not going to be attacked, and to feel like I want because I know it's uncomfortable. I know that a lot of people are just are really curious. They want to change, and I don't know how to start, because so much of what they know is it's like, it's just ingrained in whiteness, yeah, and whiteness is like, is is not like being white. And whiteness are two separate things. And I don't think people really realize that because whiteness is like a it's a construct, just like races. And so when you talk about whiteness, when you see people say that it's not like an attack against white people, because you can't help that. And you were born where I was born. Where I was born like, you know, saying you can't help what you came out the womb as, but the construct of whiteness, of white supremacy, of, like you said, of everything centering white people and everybody else's other that is, that is the construct of whiteness and and so understanding that in the context of parenting, a lot of, I mean, I heard growing up like, don't get out and act stupid in front of these white people, and that we should stick with them. And just like, who are they, you know, like, Why? Why? Why are why is there a standard that I must live up to that is, like a white standard. And so that's part of the whole decolonizing process where we're just like, you know, everybody here, you know, is on a equal, and they're not equitable yet, but I am equal, and so I don't need, I don't feel the pressure of, you know, that judgment that people feel when they go out and all eyes are on them and these white people are looking at me. I'm just like, I don't give a damn. Look at me what? Like, I'm just that person, like, I'm looking right back at you, right? It doesn't, I don't feel, I don't feel judged, and that's because I've, I've done this work, but it's very difficult. I mean, because our culture does judge black parents more harshly, period,

Casey O'Roarty 13:39
and their kids, yeah, and yeah, will you tease apart a little bit more the subtle and not so subtle ways that parenting has been colonized? Because I'm guessing. I'm just making a guess, but I'm thinking probably some of the listeners like the whole idea of parenting being something that's been colonized might be kind of foreign to them. So what does that mean to you?

Yolanda Williams 14:00
Well, I mean, as as white people, you're you're not colonizers, but your ancestors were, and so, yeah, it would be foreign to you. But as someone who is an ancestor of an enslaved person, it's sort of like we got to look at how we parent and and, okay, for instance, sorry, because sometimes I get kind of now you're good. For instance, there's a book called Post Traumatic slave syndrome, and she just talks about how it's different from PTSD. Her name is Dr Joyce ducroy. I believe her last name is, and she had a video, and it did a really great job of explaining this, of how you might get two parents in a room. One is white, one is black, and the white mom is talking about her son and uplifting him and making him feel really great, and and, and really encouraging. And the black mom might be like, you know, yeah, he's he's great now, but he has to improve in this way, and he's ahead. Like he's a nightmare. And, and the white mom was like, wait a minute, he's actually doing better than my son, you know? And what, what Dr Joyce pointed to was, now, take that back into like slavery times, you know, you have a black mother in the field with her child, and you know, the the master might come over and just be like, oh, you know, look at him. He's getting he's looks, He's smart, he's getting older, and she starts to denigrate him

in order to protect him. She doesn't want him to be snatched from him. You know, I'm saying so that kind of behavior has been carried out throughout history is like we denigrate them to protect them. We want to protect them from being snatched from us back then, but today, we want to protect them against police brutality. Yeah, so we are super hard, you know, really, really tough on them, that tough love, that that is sort of like a cultural people we're known for, you know, tough love, rules, restrictions, hard behavior. If you look at imagery of black parents, if you Google that, you're not going to see a smiling face, you're just not you're going to see a hard face. You're going to see one that looks like she's yelling. And that's just a cultural and a lot of us, I mean, you know, a lot of us don't spank our kids, but that's just like a thing. That's what people see when they think about, when they when they see, hear about black parents. And so if you understand that a lot of stuff that black parents do is out of protection and fear, you can be like, Okay, I see it, but, but to take that a step further for me, I have to try to teach people how to not parent from that place of fear, right? Because anytime you do anything out of fear, it never goes right. It's always toxic,

Casey O'Roarty 16:54
right? Yeah, that's always a human thing. For sure,

Yolanda Williams 16:57
it's a human thing parenting work, yeah, money, if you do have a fear, there's desperation there, there's toxicity there, and nothing good ever comes from it, especially when you're doing that with children. So you know that's the difference between, I think, when you're parenting black children as a black parent, because I know that there may be some listeners who have, you know, white parents who have black children, but I think that experience is different too. While they might understand that that that their black child's life is going to be different from theirs, they don't have the experience as a black parent right to they haven't gone through the systemic racism that many of us have gone through. I mean, I was called a nigger at 11 years old on the on the playground, and that's when, that's when my whole journey, and I was just like, Oh, okay. Like, that's when I realized, like, there was some distinct differences between me and everybody else at the school, and that's that's when I really started looking at at race when I was about 11 years old. And I can't protect my child from that. I don't think any parent can protect their child from that, but what we can do is give them the tools and to help them, when that does happen, talk with them through it, and let them know that, you know, they're not supplied because they were. I was feeling shame, like I did something wrong and I had no one to talk to about it. So that's that's kind of what I want to help parents learn how to do. I want you to understanding like, yeah, you have a right to be scared. It's scary out here, but you don't have a right to project that fear and turn that fear into violence or demeaning type words onto your child, because it just creates violent people and aggressive people, people who are not in tune with their emotions and don't understand conflict resolution and don't understand just how to have good relationships, you know? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 18:44
well, and this is just as I listen to you and I think about, you know, my own kids, we're on the playground too, and how they're treating people, and the conversations that we're having around race and ethnicity and differences and similarities, and how important it is for all of us to be having these conversations with our kids, because that child that called you a name has parents too. And you know, it's, it's our work, it's our work to, I mean, kids are gonna screw up, and there's a lot of influences, yes, and we're that number one. And so what are the conversations that we're having with our kids about what to do and what to say when we you know, when things don't go our way, or we're intimidated or confused or embarrassed or whatever, the experiences that we're having, how do we solve that in a way that isn't hurtful to the other person or doesn't bring in, you know, I mean, hurtful doesn't even that feels that doesn't feel like a big enough word. So thank you for sharing your experience with that so as you're having these conversations and inviting your listeners and the parents in your community. Into shifting their mindset and recognizing more deeply where their response in parenting is coming from. Have you gotten any pushback? Oh, yeah, yeah. What does that? What does that look like?

Yolanda Williams 20:13
So from and it's because a lot of parents still believe you need to hit your child, and they need hardness. They need tough love in order for your child to keep them out of trouble, so even just in the black community. But, and that's Yeah, and I was gonna say it's a lot of that is just child ism in general, right? It's just like, I need to control my child's behavior. I need to train my child. My child. My mom actually told me that recently, I need to train GIA, and I'm like, she's not a dog. But that's, that's the biggest pushback is, well, if I don't, if I don't, hit him now, Neil, the police will hit him later, or something like that. But what I always remind them is, when what's his name? Tamir Rice, when he was killed by the police at 12 years old in the park with the toy gun. He wasn't doing anything wrong, right? You know, Trayvon Martin was just walking home and got followed by some dude and got shot. And even though people went crazy on Mike Brown, he wasn't even doing anything when that whole thing started, he was literally walking in the middle of the street, and the police drove past him and said, Get the f on the curve. And then he says something back, and that's how it all started. So our kids may already be targeted just because they're race, nothing that you can do okay is gonna stop them from stop a bad police officer or a bad teacher or someone who is just a racist from being that person. And so our home needs to be a safe haven. It needs to be a place where they practice using their voice and saying no and standing up to authority when they're wrong. But a lot of homes, you know, are really what is authoritative, and it's just like, This is my house, yeah? You know, authoritarian? Yeah, authoritarian. You can't, you can't close doors in my house. And I always have to remind people this is their house too. You know, this is gia's home. What I look like telling her she can't do, sir, like, of course, there's always rules and there's discipline, but what I don't ever want her to feel like is that, because this power dynamic, I pay all the bills, so I have all the power like and that's how you get people who grow up and abuse other people, because they now have power, right? And they want to, they they are like, Okay, well, now this feels I'm about to just transfer some of this abuse over as well. So that's the biggest pushback, is I need to abuse, or I need to see the funny part, they don't see it as abuse, right? They even a pop, like, I'm popping my child. I'm trying to keep them safe, right? How about you just cover that socket up, you know? So I have a lot of right? Yeah, it's okay to it's okay to control your environment. I had that conversation with my mom. I was over there, and I every time I go over there, I move stuff, because she is two and and so she's like, I'm not moving stuff out the way. And I'm just like, okay, she's gonna touch it. I don't know what you want. Yeah? No, she need to train her so she doesn't I was like, No, you need to understand that she's two and she has no impulse control. Well, you guys did this, yeah, because you used to smack us. So, you know, you learn through pain, right? But that's not the kind of lesson that I want her to learn. I want her to be free to touch things and explore and be curious and learn about the environment around her, yeah, but she needs to be able in this safe environment and not one that is full of objects that she can choke on, because you think she needs to be trained like a dog. So I was just like, either you moving or just don't come over anymore, right? You know, yeah, like, those are the boundaries. Yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 23:43
was one of my, one of the first of my friends to have a baby, and I had them trained to push their coffee tables to the side when we came over, right? So it's really, you do it, I

Yolanda Williams 23:54
don't come Yeah, yeah. I

Casey O'Roarty 23:55
mean, it's like, it's either going to be fun to hang out or not, or we're just not gonna Yeah, yeah. Well, and when you were talking about, you know, just that the word dignity is showing up for me, too. And when, as a positive discipline trainer, when we work with teachers, we talk about this dignity double bind that can happen in the classroom where a child might get into a little bit of mischief or is perceived to be getting into some mischief. And so the teacher, you know, is kind of lays down the law, and it puts the child in this dignity double bind where it's either let go of their dignity and follow directions, or hang on to their dignity, but potentially get in trouble. And I, too have had parents and go through work with me and say, well, what's the point of focusing on solutions? If my kids in front of a judge, that's not going to be the feedback they're going to get us, and the judge isn't going to say, well, how might you have done that differently? And my response is, well, you know, this is also a way of creating an environment for your child to grow. And develop in so that they're less likely to be in front of a judge.

You know, look, and that doesn't even take into consideration the way that the judicial system is already set up to discriminate against people of color, but, and I recognize that, but just this idea of dignity. And, you know, the other thing that we talk a lot about in positive discipline is the importance of a sense of belonging and significance. Right in our kids, that when kids have a healthy sense of belonging and significance, you know, they show up, for the most part, cooperative contributing members of the family. And when that sense is off, when their perception of how they belong and whether or not they matter is off, you will. It'll show up in their behavior. And now, as I was creating this outline and thinking about the conversation that we were having, we were going to have, I imagined, I tried to imagine, living in a society that continues to show a standard of how to be, how to look through this white filter, or this filter that isn't who they are, right, that leaves out black kids or any kids of color, and how found like foundationally, that sense of belonging and significance gets shaky, and then the result could be, you know, that the behavior is how kids show up, comes out in the world, might come from that place of insecurity, or could show up as defiance or submission, which none of that is what we want for our kids. So in your work of supporting parents and helping their kids, well, creating an environment right of that belonging and significance piece, and then helping them to be in the world and still hold that belonging and significance. How do you How does that look? Yeah. And does that make sense? Like, does that, yeah,

Yolanda Williams 26:48
okay. No, it does. Well, you know. And a part of that too, when you were saying, like, some of the some of the consequences right of basically growing up around white supremacy is internalized racism. Internalized racism is, is when a member of a minority race starts to internalize all the negative messages that have been put out in the world. And will either work, it will work really hard to try not to be that thing. So for instance, did you watch the movie the love you.

Casey O'Roarty 27:23
I read the book. My kids read the book, and we went and saw the movie. Yeah. So good. So

Yolanda Williams 27:27
you see how she had to be like two different people. She felt like she had to be two different people. And that was that was really hurting her. She just felt like she could not be herself around these white these white folks at the school, right, and having to have dual personalities because of how the risk of being perceived as ghetto or that type of black person it it's a microaggression. It wears on us. It makes us just feel it's just, it's tiring, you know? And when it comes to children, we can talk to them about, like, what that that means, like, how that feels. But for their young minds, they're just like, Why do I gotta do this? You know, like, it's like, it's ridiculous. And they in that pressure to constantly suppress who they are is a lot to ask of a child. And so that's one of the consequences, is just constantly having to feel like you have to suppress yourself, and that's where that code switching comes in, which I refuse to do. Now, some people have to do it. They feel like they have to do it. Where I'm at in my life. I just feel like, if you I'm not code switching, so if you don't like the way I speak or the things that I say, don't hire me. Don't have me around, because I'm not going to change who I am to make white people comfortable. So

Casey O'Roarty 28:35
code switching just to be super clear. That's when that's like what you're talking about in the movie, where you show up a certain way in a certain place with, you know, certain people around, like maybe at work or at school, and then you show up, you know, more authentically as yourself somewhere else. Is that? Just to make sure that listeners understand code switching,

Yolanda Williams 28:54
yeah, it's like, the is what we call it, white voice. You know, when we get on the phone with, we go on the phone with a manager or something like that. It's like, we switch our voices to so we don't sound black, right? Like there's this perception around like, what black voices sound like? What black sounding names are gonna how they're gonna perform at school or at work? And so code switching just means, like, people have actually changed their names in order to avoid being discriminated against. And that's some BS. So we

Casey O'Roarty 29:23
live somewhere in a time when that is even a 2020,

Yolanda Williams 29:28
still doing this. This is still a conversation. This is crazy, and it's it's really frustrating, especially when you have younger kids to try to explain these things to them, because they're not going to get it. And so, yeah, but, but they're going to come up against it. You have studies that show that teachers how they how they're perceiving black children and these unconscious biases they have starting in preschool. They did a study how black boys are watched more closely in preschool and what. When you watch anything more closely, it starts to do the thing that you wanted to do, right? That's just like physics, I think so like so they're looking for a behavior, and they end up finding it, and these black kids end up getting punished more school to prison. Pipeline starts to happen, starting in preschool. And so what I one things that I'm doing and when things that I talk about often. And to some people's like chagrin, I love that word, but yeah, some people's hate that I talk about this, but I don't allow White dolls in my house. I don't allow books with white protagonists, and that is simple. I have books with like characters, like bears and stuff. But I don't allow White dolls. I don't have art. All my art is of, like, dark skinned black people, and all the books and her dolls are mostly dark skinned black people and black girls mostly. And that's on purpose.

Casey O'Roarty 30:58
Oh, you don't want, like, fully developed women for your daughter, why not Yolanda?

Yolanda Williams 31:04
Why not? Sorry, they got a couple barbs. Okay, but, but yeah, like, it's just if I don't there, there are studies that also show that instilling a sense of cultural pride very early on helps them, helps counteract the racism, racism and microaggressions that they undoubtedly will come against when they're a little bit older. So, you know, having all this imagery around her, where she where I'm instilling this cultural pride, talking to her, you know, in a really positive way about being black, and showing her all the amazing things that black culture. I mean, you said earlier, like pop culture is mostly white. It's not. That's

Casey O'Roarty 31:42
a lie. As soon as it came out of my mouth, like, that's not the right word for

Yolanda Williams 31:46
me, though I know what you mean, because it's appropriate, but it's right. It's mostly, you know, popular culture is black culture. And yeah, and that's been for a really long time, um, since this music and all this other stuff like it is, is black culture and so, but what we see it the most popular people may be maybe white or like lighter skinned black people. So even though I'm a lighter skinned black person, and Gia has my complexion, the art and the dolls, they're darker skin, because there is still a lot of stigma against dark skinned people. So I want her to, I want to normalize. So this is beautiful, right? Black is beautiful. This dark skin is beautiful, this kinky hair is beautiful. And so when she goes out and someone trying to say anything to her, she's gonna be like, What are you talking about? You know, you won't be able to tell her anything, because she's gonna feel very strong about herself. I can't, I can't, I can't filter in the Met, the message that she's going to get from around her when she goes to the store and she sees the books and the magazines, or she talks on the TV and she sees the white characters. I can't help any of that. What I can help, though, is like, the the things that I allow in my house, and, you know, I've gotten pushback on that, and like, well, the world is multicultural, and she has plenty of time to see the world and see his multiculturalism for now, right.

For now, she's going to we're going to normalize and center blackness in this home and discuss race from positive perspective, and discuss history from a Pan African perspective, because if we discuss it from an American perspective, it still really, it still perpetuates inferiority. So I'm not doing that. So these are the big things I have to do.

Casey O'Roarty 33:36
Yeah, well, and I love the I have not heard the word like that, centeredness, word before. So thank you for that. And I love how you know, because my question was around belonging and significance. And what a EASY Quote, easy way to just bulk up that foundation of belonging and significance simply in like you're doing, making sure that in her, you know, her main environment, because she's so little, you know, is this place of celebration of who she is and is a reflection of who she is. And, yeah, sorry, you're getting feedback that that isn't okay. And, and, you know, it's interesting, too. I

listened to this. There's a podcast, and it's only, I don't know, it might have been somebody's like school project, because there's not very many episodes. And then it stops, which kills me, but it's called 1619,

which was the year the first boat of African enslaved people showed up in, you know, in the history you know, which was the beginning of of enslaved people in the United States. And it just connects the dots to black history and and like things like access to health care and education, and even, you know, the. The first police forces that were created, were created to track down and keep you know, quote, in line runaway slaves. And it you know. And like all of these dots like you, that you know you talk about, and we society talks about institutional racism without really going back to the beginning of like, how did this happen, you know? And it's such an interesting show, and I learned so much in the few episodes that exist. I'm really hoping that they are going to make more. Because, again, it's like, you know, what we learn in school, the history that we get in school, and mainstream television isn't telling a full story. It's

Yolanda Williams 35:44
not even telling the story is whitewashed. It is sanitized. If you really look at like, American history, and it's, you know, including, you know, black history in that, you will go, you'll be like, Why this? I did not learn the truth because you don't, you don't learn the truth and that, and that is on purpose. You know, the people who are writing these books, they center whiteness, and it's not like, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna I'm an evil person, racist, and I'm gonna write these, although the people, the daughters, the daughters of the Confederacy, did that on purpose in the south, like my niece actually has a Arkansas history class out here. And what do you think they're teaching? They're not teaching the truth. Okay, yeah, so, but so they did that on purpose. But for the most part, I don't think it's like necessarily an insidious thing. But what I think is that is insidious in the way that white supremacy is centered, in a way that it still perpetuates racism, systemic racism and oppression in the feeling of inferiority, the fact that when we only talk about black history from the from enslavement, is a problem. There's so much history, and it's so rich, and yeah, that's part of it. But, I mean, can we move on? There's other parts of black history. There's so many scientists and composers and artists that don't get any play, you know, we got MLK, we got George Washington Carver and a few other people, and then everybody else, you know, it just kind of like resigned to nothing, you know, you don't hear about them. And I think it's a shame. And so I think, you know, it's a call to action too. Like, it should not just be this one, this one month, 28 days. No. Like, Black history is American history? Like, if you really want to learn about the history of United States, include black people in it and teach your children outside of school, because what they teach in school, especially if it's a white suburban school, it's not going to be enough. Kids are going to come out into this world, just completely ignorant to American history. So when we tell them stuff, they're just like that. That's not true. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 37:46
and the resources are there. I mean, the resources are right, yeah, if we're on a, you know, if you're, if you're, you know, listeners, you're listening to this, it might be new information. Might not be new information. If you're feeling, which I hope you are feeling, called to think about and act on, how you can expand the experience that your kids are having and the education that your kids are getting, you know, seek it out. Seek out. You know, whether it's exhibits that are coming through your town or your city. And you know? And I think there's different, you know, if you're someone that's in a urban setting, I feel like there's a lot more resources, as far as, like, exhibits and events, right? And then more rural areas, or even, you know, just pockets of whiteness, like I live in, it might be more challenging, but it doesn't mean that we get to just say, Nah, it's not that big of a deal. Or I'm not gonna I'm not gonna figure this out. I'm not gonna learn more. So do you have and even as I say this, I'm thinking about you saying it's not my responsibility to tell you,

Yolanda Williams 38:58
actually, no, I actually learned, if you have Amazon Prime video, they have a lot of documentaries by Henry Louis Gates Jr, who did, like a whole African American sort of history documentary, and it's like four, three or four parts. So there's that one, there's African civilizations, which I thought was really interesting, because a lot of people don't talk about, you know, people want to start at like, Greece and Rome as, like, the center of civilization. And it's not like Africans were, like, doing the damn thing when, when people in Europe were still, like, not very civilized. So there's African history. There is black and Latin America, which I thought was really, really informative, because people don't really realize how black Latin America is. There's an evolutionist one on there. There's all kinds of videos on Amazon Prime, yeah, check them out if you just make it. Make it part of your you know, video night, I don't know, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 39:58
well, and, you know, I think is something. That I know is happening for me as I, you know, learn and grow and listen and is I, you know, you get to a place where I've gotten to a place now where I really notice what like even going to the movies and watching the trailers for movies when it's a cast of all white people, I notice. So you know, listeners, just listen to this conversation again. Notice if anything comes up for you where you're feeling a little prickly, because that's a great place to dig in and be curious, right? Because we are all living inside of this racist, white supremacist society, and it's up to all of us to learn and grow and take action to, you know, make it a better place for everyone. Yeah,

Yolanda Williams 40:49
I definitely, I definitely encourage anyone who has, who really does feel sort of like a thing that comes up for them. Maybe they're feeling slightly attacked, or feeling like this isn't necessarily true, or maybe what I'm saying about like, having no white dolls, maybe that is offensive to you. Like, think about that. Because, you know, do your do your kids have black dolls? Like, is it? Is your library decolonized? You have? Do you make it a point to buy books for your children that are that? That where the protagonist is a person of color. You know, these are things that that you have to be intentional about, right? Just like I have to be intentional about, like, instilling cultural pride into Gia. Y'all have to be intentional about just opening up the conversation and and your minds and your children's minds to other races and cultures. I

Casey O'Roarty 41:39
love that super and that's a simple step, right? So, if you know parents, when you go into your child's classroom or into the local library, and you're aren't seeing people of color, as you know, celebrated authors, or like you're talking about with the characters in the book, like, just make a point to talk to the librarian you know, let it be known that that's what you want to see more of. And sure enough, because, you know, a good story is a good story, right? And it's important that we get to see representation of everyone. And we're all learning like, I feel like an infant inside of this Yolanda. I feel like I'm just like, scratching my own the surface for myself and and still feeling awkward and wonky inside of it, and I'm still gonna have the conversation. Yeah,

Yolanda Williams 42:28
it's completely okay. Yeah. I think, you know, if you find people who to do come at you and they're angry, you know, I know that for some people, that is like, Man, I tried to learn and I got so much anger back at me. Just please know that it's not necessarily back at you, unless you're doing something really egregious. It's, it's, it's a frustration. Sure, it's a frustration over the entire system and over this whole feeling of just just having to even explain these things still, you know. But we, we, I know at least. I can't speak for everybody, but I know that I me personally black people, we we cannot dismantle white supremacy. That is on white people to dismantle white supremacy, but sometimes what it takes is to have these awkward conversations for you to understand. You'll be willing to have these conversations, be willing to feel uncomfortable, and me being willing to sort of extend myself a bit in order to help people grow and learn. I am all for allies. I am all for you know, people have this perception against like the Black Panthers. They were actually an international organization. They work for white people constantly, and that's because they understood, like, in order for this world to be a better place. We all have to work together in order to dismantle these things, but mostly we have to be willing to bring white people into the into the conversation, and have it with them, and help them understand sometimes, like this is, this is what this is, yeah. And sometimes you might get some anger, but I still encourage you, you know, if it's something that you really want to Okay, search out the information yourself. If someone is just like, I'm not getting paid to do this because I've had someone say that on my Facebook page, right, right? You know you're right. They're not getting paid to educate you. There's plenty of resources for you to educate yourself and just continue that journey.

Casey O'Roarty 44:18
Yeah. Well, thanks for the Amazon Prime tips too. I'm excited about that. So in the context of decolonizing parenting and all the work that you do, what does joyful courage mean to you? You

Yolanda Williams 44:32
know, when I think of joyful joyful courage, it makes me think of this quote by Audre Lorde, and it's like the basis for everything I do. She said, raising black children, female and male in the mouth of a racist, sexist, suicidal Dragon is perilous and chancy. If they cannot love and resist at the same time, they will probably not survive. So that's like love and resistance is what joyful courage is for me. I mean, I have. To have courage to change the status quo, and I have to model what joy and unconditional love looks like inside my home, because Home is where security and safety is and love and as scary as being a black parent is, sometimes I can't tell you how much joy it gives me to be raising my daughter in this revolutionary way, and to watch her grow into an amazing black woman like it gives me a lot of joy. I love

Casey O'Roarty 45:25
that. Where can listeners find you and follow your work?

Yolanda Williams 45:30
Um, so I have my podcast, parenting decolonized, and you can find me on iTunes, Spotify, Google, Spreaker, anywhere you listen to your podcast and also on my website, parent to decolonize.com as well as the parenting decolonized Facebook page. And then, you know, I still have the conscious parenting time Facebook page where we sort of discuss things, not as, you know, racy, as as as my other page, but I we try to really focus on on teaching there. So that's conscious parenting time. And on Instagram, it's, it's CP time,

Casey O'Roarty 46:09
okay, okay. And listeners, you know, I'll put those links into the show notes, so it'll be easy for you to find yolando and her work. Thank you so much. This was so great. Thank

Yolanda Williams 46:18
you. I really appreciate you having me on. Thank you listeners for being open to listening to this message, yay.

Casey O'Roarty 46:27
Thank you so much for listening. It is my great honor to create this show for all of you. Big thanks to my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper, for his work in making the podcast sound. Oh so good. If you're interested in continuing these powerful conversations that start on the podcast, become a patron by heading to www.patreon.com/joyful courage. That's www dot, P, A, T, R, e o n.com/joyful, courage. For $5 a month, you will have access to a private Facebook group where I do weekly Facebook lives on Mondays and interview recaps on Fridays. Plus it's a great way to give back to the show that gives you so much. Be sure to subscribe to the show. Head to Apple podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google Play wherever you are listening to podcasts and simply search for the joyful courage podcast and hit that subscribe button. Join our communities on Facebook, the live and love with joyful courage group and the joyful courage of parents of teens groups are both safe, supportive communities of like minded parents walking the path with you. If you're looking for even bigger, deeper support, please consider checking out my coaching offer. Www dot joyful courage.com/coaching. Is where to go to book a free explore. Call with me and we can see if we're a good fit. I'll be back next week. Can't wait until then. Big Love to you. Remember to find your breath, ride it into your body, take the balcony seat and trust that everything is going to be okay.

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