Eps 227: Problem Solving with Cynthia Klein

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Hey friends, before jumping into this podcast, I just want to acknowledge that we're all self quarantining. So yeah, it feels weird to put out a new show and not have anything about the state of the world mentioned. So I wanted to jump in and just say, I see you, I love you, and I'm hopeful that you've jumped onto my website to see all of the free resources that I've put together for you to take advantage of during this time. Go to www dot joyful courage.com/corona,

and you will see downloadable worksheets for you having to do with routines and agreements. There is access to my family meetings course. There's five different workshops that you can watch for free with a variety of different parenting topics and come froms and yeah. So that's all available to you on the website during this weird self quarantine time, but I just wanted to make sure you knew that. I want to make sure you know that I'm thinking about you and hoping that you're staying healthy and enjoying this extra time to connect and be creative with your kids.

Hello and welcome. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and aren't afraid of getting super messy with it. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline trainer, parent, coach, and in the trenches of the parenting journey with my own two teenagers, each week, I come at you with a solo show or an interview. You can be sure that the guests on the podcast have something important to say, and I am honored to have you listen in as I pick their brains about what it is that they are passionate about. If you are a parent looking to grow while walking the path of parenting, if you're open to learning new things, if your relationship with yourself and your kids is something you are interested in diving deeper into, then this is the place for you. After you listen, I would love to hear from you. Head over to iTunes and leave a five star review, letting others know what you love about the show, or feel free to shoot me an email at [email protected], I love hearing from listeners, and am always quick to respond if you want to be sure not to miss any of the happenings going on with joyful courage, join my list. You'll stay updated on the podcast and events that are happening for parents, both online and live. You can join the list at WWW dot joyful courage.com/join. Yay. So glad you're here. Enjoy the show.

Hi listeners. My guest today is Cynthia Klein. Cynthia is an educator, coach, speaker and author. Through her work, Cynthia helps parents of children from age five to 30, through a strong desire to create a great relationship with her own child. Cynthia's journey to developing herself as a parent began early on by building bridges to understanding and cooperation rooted in mutual respect, she was able to achieve the connection she longed for with her teenage daughter. Oh, that's good. I have a teenage daughter, so that's makes me feel good. Cynthia understands the challenges of parenting and provides solutions that are unique, effective, individualized and enduring, you can achieve results that will change the course of your relationship with your children and your family's dynamic now and for generations to come. Cynthia's education includes a BA in psychology training and human resource development certificate, California and New Mexico, teaching credentials, numerous parent education certificates and life lessons gained from raising a successful daughter who values her mom's opinion. Yay. Her book is titled ally parenting, a non adversarial approach to transform conflict into cooperation. Hi, Cynthia, welcome to the podcast. Good to be here. Yeah, will you share a little bit more about your journey of doing what you do?

Cynthia Klein 4:26
Right? I think people ask that about parent educators, because it's not like you go in and get a degree in it. We kind of find our way there. And I think mine started when I was a teenager, and I just had a really difficult time with my mother, and I didn't feel heard, I didn't feel valued, and I didn't really feel loved by her. So I think this seed was planted there. But then I went on, and I got a degree in psychology, child psychology, and then I went on and I was a teacher. However, it was like that teaching elementary school. Was lovely, but there was something inside of me, like I really have this mission that I want to help create world peace. And it's a big, you know, it's a big mission, but it's like, what I want to do is help create humanistic families and my own and so when I started doing parent education, I had a daughter, and it was around when she was around five years old, and I started getting training, and just from there, I started working with parents, and I realized that I had a real ability to, because of my background psychology, to really understand what the foundation of the problem is, to help parents change, and then I had to change a lot because I didn't have role models for my mother, right to listen and how to support and so I did a lot of my own personal growth. And so I've been loving doing this for about 26 years now, helping families,

Casey O'Roarty 5:55
yay. And I love what you said about world peace, because every time something you know, we see something on the news and adults around the world getting into mischief. All I can think about is, man, if that person only had a healthy sense of belonging and a healthy sense of mattering, you know, the the world would be so much more peaceful and cooperative. So thank you for your work. Today we're going to talk about problem solving. I'm really excited about that. And so much of your book and what I know about your work is really aligned with positive discipline, which is what I talk about a lot here on the podcast. Can you start a bit by sharing and you kind of touched on it a little bit. But what is it that you believe about behavior and parenting? What's your foundation? And I know you've done a positive discipline training, but what else? What else is

Cynthia Klein 6:50
Do you know I when I hearing this question, one of the the first thing that comes to my mind is, if parents can see parenting as an opportunity for personal growth. Yes, like, like, taking it on that way. Not like I'm going to have a child because I want to make a child a certain way or but it's like, I want to have a child so I can grow so my daughter, who is now 31 and got married in the fall, as I went through so much with her, Yes, that was wonderful to get to that point. Is, as long as I started looking at it is, what do I need to do differently? And what I find parents have, they have they're having a challenge now with realizing that they are the authority, because there's this for centuries, there was this hard power approach. And so I really talk about a soft power approach. So parents get confused, and they go, Oh, I don't want to be harsh. I don't want to be mean. I don't want to and and so what happens is they don't want to be hard power. So they often give up power and because they don't know how to replace it with soft power, which is positive discipline, right? Totally, totally positive. All is all about still having your authority and your power doing it in a way that is respectful. And I think for parents to think about, how do I lead my child to get their needs met in a positive way, rather than how do I control them? So I think if parents, that's what I think about, is parenting. I think that's kind of the foundation of all the work that I do with parents. How do we and what is our language? Really looking at our language like when I talk to parents about what their words are, and what does their child feel so if you're saying you should have known better, or why did you do that? And I tell parents stop. What is the impact of your words on their your child? They go, Oh, that doesn't feel good, but they're so wrapped up into kind of this harshness, which is the hard power. And so I really like to help parents with the positive discipline, you know, do the more of a soft power, but don't give up your power, because they give up their power, and then their kids don't do what they want, and then they get all angry, and then they go back to hard power,

Casey O'Roarty 9:21
right? Well, and I think it's so interesting, too. I mean, I feel like it's really easy for us to sit in. We either have to be and I think this is what you mean by hard power, right? Really firm, but there's no connection, or we choose connection, and there's no firmness, right? Versus staying connected while holding boundaries, I think that's really the aim. And like you mentioned, not having a role model. I think there's, you know, it's a pretty radical approach, and not many of us were raised with models for what it looks like to be firm and connected at the same. Time, and so it feels, it can feel really wobbly. And I think there's a place there too, where, you know, we get to trust that we don't have to be this harsh authoritarian for our kids to grow and develop and learn tools and skills for being cooperative, contributing humans,

Cynthia Klein 10:22
yeah, because that it's with that foundation of the connection, like when times when they're having trouble, you build the foundation then right? So you're when you know how to listen and support when they're having a hard time, so then when you're setting a limit or expectation, then they're much more likely to respond positively to it because you have built a foundation elsewhere. And then when you realize that even when you set a limit, like, Okay, it's time to turn, turn in the cell phone, we're going to charge it now. And if they complain, if parents learn that you just restate the limit, or you don't get engaged, and you watch your own triggers, emotional triggers, right? Like, Oh my gosh, they're not listening to me. They should, and you don't get into then putting them down, then you can, you can keep the relationship and still set the limit. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 11:13
yeah. I think it's always so funny to expect that they're not going to complain.

Cynthia Klein 11:20
They will. Yes, they

Casey O'Roarty 11:21
will, they will. It's okay. You don't need to be mad about them complaining. When I work with parents, it's important to me to also try and illustrate, and I'm hearing you talk into this that it's a scaffolding, meaning it's not just one thing to do or say to get the outcome that you want with your child. And I think often parents will come and and like, you know, using that example that you just use, how do I get my kid off the cell phone? Like there's one thing to do or say, but what I'm hearing you speak into is building that relationship, right, setting those limits, being reasonable, right, being respectful. What are some other ways that you so and I talked to to parents, you know, because it's we can spend all day talking about the problems or the challenges, but it's also parenting is also how we show up when things are going well, right? And what we're creating and developing and nurturing when things are going well, and I like to think of it as like the foundation of a of a home, right? If you don't spend time setting that foundation up, right, the house is going to feel wobbly. So what are some of the things that you share with parents that could be considered as scaffolding?

Cynthia Klein 12:37
It was interesting. I was speaking at a school last week, middle school, and one of the questions I had was like, How many of you want to be a parent that when your kid with even they get older, or even when they're out of the house, when things are really hard, that they know they can call you because You'll listen, and they all raise their hand, of course, right this Wow, because, and then I always ask, how many of you have that from your parent? And hardly any. So like you were saying, like they don't have, they don't have the modeling. So I let them know, it's something we all have to learn. I had to learn this skill as well. And one of the things that I always say, it starts with changing yourself first. So looking at rather that I loved your question. You know, the thing about parents saying, How do I get my child to right? So when I start that with that kind of a question, the focus is, how do I change my child Right, right? So I shift it to, what do I feel, think or do differently to get a different response? Oh, I

Casey O'Roarty 13:46
love that. Say that again. Okay, what do I feel,

Cynthia Klein 13:51
think or do differently to get a different response? So I think of it about a parent child equation. So on one side of the equation is what the parent thinks, feels and does. On the other side of the equation is what the child thinks, feels and does. And there is an influence you don't directly control. And so think if you have any kind of equation, if you change one side of the equation, so if the parent changes what they're thinking, which is where change has to start, they change what they're thinking, then they're going to change how they feel. Their actions will change. It will definitely get a different response from the child, and that's the most direct way to make change, don't we all know that, right? We read psychology, change yourself first. Yeah. So that's the first thing. The second thing is to ask yourself, Who owns the problem?

Casey O'Roarty 14:49
Such a big question. I love that question,

Cynthia Klein 14:52
right? Cool, okay, this issue, who owns the problem? And so I really learned from. Actually from active parenting. Another program that I studied with about kind of three roles, and I put the names to them. You're either a director, a collaborator or a supporter, depending on whose problem this is to solve. So let's say, if you want to get your you want to get out of the house in the morning, that's a big problem for a lot of people without nagging and yelling, yes, it is. So ultimately, you think about, okay, who, who? What's the goal of getting out of the house? Right? Maybe you need to. The parent needs to get to work. The kid, most kids want to go to school. They just have a hard time getting out of the house, right? They they eventually want to be there. So you think, okay, I want us to leave, and the child wants us to leave. So that means that it's a joint problem to figure out how to get out of the house in the morning. So we'll talk about that later too. But the collaborator, and so that's the second thing, what is your role? And then the third is really building emotional connection first, because here it is, folks, you can't control your children,

Casey O'Roarty 16:07
right? Oh my gosh. My listeners have heard me say that so much you can

Cynthia Klein 16:12
only influence Yes, absolutely,

Casey O'Roarty 16:15
100% totally. And you know, it's just so fascinating when we start to notice all the ways that we are creating, the issues that we're having. So the language you use in your book is adversary. And so I'm curious you know, in in the experience that you've had with working of with parents, what are some of the ways that parents show up as adversaries, in their relationship with their kids. Okay, unknowingly, granite, granite. We don't always know that we're doing this, but you know,

Cynthia Klein 16:46
right? They never know it, right? So it, it starts always with our what our belief is, right? Because, again, there's a think, feel, do, cycle and how we think then leads to our feelings and our actions. And so they their attitude is that the child is the problem, bitten, they are to blame. So once you think that way, they then you think, If only my child was or would do, then there wouldn't be this problem, right?

Casey O'Roarty 17:22
So, or even like, you are doing something to me the victim, right? I think that's a place where we get into victim mindset too, exactly.

Cynthia Klein 17:33
So then you feel powerless, right? As a parent, because then it's like the child's the problem, and they're causing you to suffer. You're the victim, and then you feel powerless. So what happens then, when that feeling inside, because, man, we all have these certain beliefs about how we should be treated. As a parent, sure, I would never have done that, right? I would never have done that to my parents. Oh, yeah. So it's this adversarial belief is like, I'm right, you're wrong. You should do what I say. So all of those beliefs that you have that maybe, as an aware parent, you know that, oh, I shouldn't have them. However, it's important to really sit down and evaluate, what is it that's triggering me? What is it that I'm thinking? Why am I keep thinking that they're the problem? So, okay, so they're the problem, then that leads us to then trying to control them. And what has been out throughout time is the way of controlling is what shaming, humiliating, making people feel bad. Yep, threatening, threatening. If you don't, you should have, how many times I have to tell you, why are you so right? Yep, so all of that language is extremely adversarial, because it's simply hurting the child. Then if a person feels hurt, if they're trying to protect themselves, which is one of the five goals that we have, is protection, the way to negatively protect oneself is through revenge. So then they get back at parents, and then this vicious cycle happens. So it starts out with thinking, how am I perceiving this? So again, like I said earlier, if we can see it as this is our problem, like you were saying earlier, about I am part of the problem, and then it actually gives parents power, because you're a part of the problem. You're also part of the part

Casey O'Roarty 19:42
of the solution. Yeah, I love that too, because it means that, I mean, it's like a relief when I really think about it, it's like, you recognize I can't control this person in front of me without, like, engaging in behavior that I'm just not. Willing to engage in and so, yeah, and so I get to do something different, like I can control me. I can, you know, and sometimes it takes practice, right? I get so lit up about that powerful first step in making change just simply being an awareness of what we're doing and becoming aware that we're part of the problem. And I talk a lot about this on the podcast. So for the sake of this conversation, let's just assume that the listeners have done the work of becoming aware and and they're working on just like shifting up the internal experience. And it's so funny, you know, in the positive discipline community, there's ongoing conversation of think, feel, do or feel, think, do? I come from the camp of that, and I really like to go even deeper than just naming feelings, but really like internal experiences and physical sensations. Like, for me, that's the most basic place to start is, wow, my body is really tense, and if I can release the tension in my body, then that's my first step towards, okay, I can change the experience I'm having in my body, then I can work on my thinking. Otherwise, I'm just having like a spin out around my thinking. Does that make sense?

Cynthia Klein 21:22
Yeah, that's great to be aware of that. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 21:26
So again, for the sake of this conversation, assuming that listeners are doing that work, and they've begun to create that scaffolding, they get the not wanting to show up adversarially, and they're working on that connection and respected relationship, which none of this means, by the way, everyone, and you've heard me say this, none of this means that there's no conflicts, right? And it's messy, like even when we are showing up really, really well, we're doing our work, we're leaning into the personal growth and development. This is a messy, messy journey. So Cynthia, I'm really excited to dig into the process with you of when those conflicts and challenges show up, when things feel hot, right? And it's time to figure it out. In your book, you talk about being a collaborator. So tease that apart a little bit more for the listeners, what does being a collaborator mean? Okay? And

Cynthia Klein 22:28
I think what's important, since you have these self reflecting parents, listening, is so if you have an issue and a problem you don't like how it went, so take the time to sit down later on and evaluate it, like what was happening, what was my part? Because that's really the only way you can make changes, right?

Casey O'Roarty 22:53
So that's the pre step right is to recognize, okay, okay, eyes wide open, right?

Cynthia Klein 22:59
So we're talking about, like I mentioned earlier. There's three roles that you play as a parent, and you play them at different times depending on who has ownership of the problem. So you're a director, a collaborator or a supporter. So if you want your child to do something that they have absolutely no interest in doing whatsoever, then you have to give director role strategy. So for example, my daughter was not keen on cleaning the bathroom as a teenager. I don't understand why. So surprising, she didn't, and so I would use the director role strategy of after that or work before play. And I have it in my book, and she approved the message in the book, and it worked every time. Okay, but let's say it's a collaborator, so we would first collaborate. So I mentioned earlier that issue by getting out of the house in the morning. Okay, so let's say you've been a parent and you've been acting like a director. So in other words, you've been barking at people and telling them what to do. That's a director mentality. That's not a Let's collaborate. So what you want to first do is you realize, Okay, I've been telling them what to do. Maybe it's about chores that's a collaborative problem to solve at first. Okay, whatever it is, you have to think, who, whom does it directly impact. So if chores aren't done, if laundry isn't done, the dishes aren't done, cooking isn't done, it will impact your children, right? Even though they are excited about it. Okay, so that's, I

Casey O'Roarty 24:24
like, the getting out the door in the morning, because that's alive and actually really current for me, even with a 14 year old who's in eighth grade. You know, we had the beginnings of this conversation just

Cynthia Klein 24:37
this morning. Okay? So number one, you don't want to have the conversation in the midst of the problem. That's going to be your first step. So what you'll say is, you'll say to whoever's involved in the problem, is, you know what? We're having a problem with getting out of the house in the morning, and I'm acting like it's just my problem. And I think I'm acting in ways you probably don't. Like, is that true?

Casey O'Roarty 25:01
I love that ownership and transparency, right? You need to

Cynthia Klein 25:05
say that. You should say, okay, so because I'm acting this way, we're going to meet together, and we're going to go through a problem solving process to come up with a better plan, because my plan of barking at you is not working and it makes you feel bad. Okay? So you first present it that way, all right, and then you bring everybody together, and the first step on the five step is stop blocking communication. So that's a whole that's a whole process of learning about, when one of your kids is talking, there are communication blocks. You can be saying that shutting them down. You might be they might feel like you're interrogating them. You might, let's say they say something like, Okay, you're sitting down together, you're you're at another time, not in the morning, and you're gonna say, Okay, we have to come up with a better solution. Because right now, what's this isn't working. And let's say you're saying, Okay, let's each go around and say what we feel about what's happening in the morning. What is each person feeling about it? So let's say your daughter says, what, what might be some complaint she might have about you. Can I say? Can I ask?

Casey O'Roarty 26:20
Oh, I Well, my use of the words always and never, okay, all right, that's one,

Cynthia Klein 26:28
right? Okay, so I will just start with that. I don't need to put your spot anymore. All right, I'm

Casey O'Roarty 26:33
an open book, Cynthia. It's

Cynthia Klein 26:34
all good. So let's, let's say your daughter says, Mom, I hate it when you always say always, or you always say never. And this would be a communication block in response. Well, you know if, if you would follow and get along and do things in the morning, then I wouldn't say that. So in other words, that's shutting her down from talking, yep. And she would then think, Well, I'm not going to say anything because you don't listen. So I have a whole list of 10 different communication blocks in my book, of ways that we shut down a person when they're trying to express themselves. Yeah, parents can get very defensive. Oh, man,

Casey O'Roarty 27:17
yes, we can, right? Yes, we can absolutely

Cynthia Klein 27:21
so if so that. So the second step is to listen openly to feeling. So this is tricky. And again, would be like, just even if your daughter says that, or she's says something else, and you're like feeling inside, like, well, if you just or that kind of stuff. So if we can learn to listen and acknowledge even if we don't agree or just say, okay, hmm, okay. And you can even write down notes while each person is making a complaint or what they feel about the morning. If you can imagine having a binder and you're actually writing them down, because when you write down what somebody says, What does it say about what they're saying? But

Casey O'Roarty 28:08
it's important to you. Yes, Hey, friends, hope you are feeling safe and calm and are hunkered down in good health with your family as we move through this weird and wild new normal,

I am interrupting this interview to remind you that the sex ed for parents of teen Summit is less than a week away. People seem to love to wait until the last minute to sign up for things like this, and sometimes they even wait until the event is happening, to jump in on it. Don't let this be you, because you're going to have to pay more as a late comer, and that isn't what you want. Instead, you want to get your registration in now so that you are all squared away and ready to roll with all of us when we start on Monday, April 6, I want to remind you about how this is going to unfold. So you're going to get registered before April 6, preferably today, and then pay $29 to be a part of the summit the morning of April 6, you will get an email from me with a link to listen to the first interview of the summit, and you get to listen to that interview on your own time. There is no specific place that you have to be online or otherwise to listen to the interview. It's yours. You can jump into the conversation over in the joyful courage parents of teens group with questions or support after you listen in. And then each morning throughout the week, you'll wake to find another link in your inbox for each of the five interviews and discussions are going to happen every day in the Facebook group, the interviews are all yours to download and keep forever. Also, my team and I are creating a beautiful e zine like a map. Magazine online to go along with the interviews that include transcripts and resources for you, super professionally presented, also downloadable. Now, if you wait until after April 6, the price jumps to $49 the summit will only be available through April 12, so you really want to get on it. Five amazing guests, powerful, useful conversations. I'm telling you you want this your kids are going through their sexual development, whether you like it or not, this resource is going to support you and being the available, confident, connected parent

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What I love about this is I feel like we make so many assumptions about what our kids think, what our kids want, and it's so, you know, I know that when I've recognized it, it's or when I've had that experience being on the other end of it, it's really insulting. And I feel like when we listen to feelings, when we really listen, and what I say to clients is, you know, the reason that you're listening is you're you want to gain some information. You know, you want to understand better what their experience is. Because sometimes we think we have one problem, but that's not even really the problem, and we don't get to the core of it until we actually hear from our children and our teenagers, specifically around what the problem and barriers are for them. Then we can have a conversation about a problem that by solving it is actually going to be forwarding Exactly, yeah. So I love this,

Cynthia Klein 32:05
and it's like, when I was teaching the other day, I was saying, you know, you have your viewpoint, and your child has their viewpoint. There isn't one viewpoint, yeah, there, there's and this one parent, when they wrote down what they liked about the class, it was like, Oh my gosh, I never thought about that. Like, my yours isn't the right. Yours is just one. And so and so, if you're if you're having a hard time hearing, which can be hard because they're complaining about you at first, that they'll all, they'll just do that at first. And if you're writing it down, it'll help you

Casey O'Roarty 32:43
not take it personally. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah,

Cynthia Klein 32:45
okay, all right. This is just and then everybody goes around and you're talking about what the problems are, and what you'll notice is when they feel heard and not blamed or judged, see, as soon as they feel like, well, if you had done this, then they're going to shut down, and the you can't do any problem solving, right? So okay, so it sounds like, you know you don't like me yelling, and then you might be able to say something like, I get frustrated when, what do you think you'd say?

Casey O'Roarty 33:17
Well, I get frustrated when it feels like it's the same, like we're on a replay, just that it's the same challenge regularly, where I feel like, in the mornings, the issue is, I feel like I'm having to be in the role of hustling people along. And I don't want that job.

Cynthia Klein 33:38
There you go. So you know, then, yeah, I don't want to be your director. Yeah, I know. I don't want to do that so. And then you could say that's why this is so important for us to come up with a solution together that will work for at least we can try one that'll work much better than it is now, yeah, so make sure that kids go first. Yeah, yep, yep. They need to feel heard first before they're gonna hear you. And so, you know, you can have rules about, oh, you know, you might have a Talking Stick, only the person with the talking stick can talk. You might have a rule about setting a time where each person gets a minute. You kind of need to decide what works best for the family. You set a guideline of, okay, when a person speaking, then it's important that the other person doesn't interrupt them, yes, when we're sharing feelings, and so, yeah, set up a few guidelines ahead of time. We want this to be respectful. We want everybody to feel like they're contributing, they're important, and that everyone together is collaborating, coming up with a solution.

And it feels it feels good to be heard.

Casey O'Roarty 34:56
It does.

Cynthia Klein 34:58
So the thing you'll find. Mind, and you have teenagers, so that you know their brains developing, not fully developed another 10 years, but it's getting there,

Casey O'Roarty 35:07
slow trudge. It's a slow trudge towards 25

Cynthia Klein 35:13
however, when they feel like they're heard and you've expressed some things, and then you can say, okay, let's come up with some different possibilities of solutions. So do not ask. When you're doing problem solving. This is, do not ask, What do you think we should do? Because you're asking for the final solution before you've gone through any possibilities. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 35:39
so what about the question of, what ideas do you have?

Cynthia Klein 35:43
There you go. Or, let's say, let's all come up with different ideas. Okay, so even that's even more than what do you direct teenagers or kids directly being asked sometimes it that can shut them down. It can feel like a communication block of interrogation. People are very sensitive, so I always start

Casey O'Roarty 36:05
with that. That's really interesting. I never thought about it that way, because I always encourage parents to, you know, mine ideas from the child first before putting their ideas down. It depends

Cynthia Klein 36:17
what kind of response you get. So I would say more like, let's come up with different ideas. Okay, okay, rather than asking them, because some kids are like, younger ones, like, I don't know. And then if they say, I don't know, you say, Okay, well, I'll throw out an idea, and then we'll take turns, because often kids are saying I don't know, because they feel like they're going to be judged and evaluated, and they can be told, right, that that isn't a good idea. Okay, so, so you're going through this, you're coming up, you know, you're you're step two, you're letting them express themselves. And step three, you're discussing and evaluating ideas. So you're really writing down different solutions, okay, and you say, All right, guys, as a collaborative problem, we all have to agree to try a solution or a couple different solutions. So let's say a teenager isn't getting up in the morning, and the parents having to get up help them get up. So you might be saying, I don't want to be your alarm clock anymore, right? So what are we going to what's one? What's a couple ideas what to do about that. And so teenager might say, okay, you know, and let's say you don't you say, I don't want your cell phone, right? Because maybe they're going to say, I can use my cell phone to get myself up. And you might say, No, we're not having cell phones in the room. What would be another way you can get yourself up? Okay? So come up with different possibilities, different solutions, and the Step four is to make a plan together. Now it's really important to know that, to state it as this is the plan we're gonna try first. Yes,

Casey O'Roarty 37:53
love that. I love that, and I want to make sure listeners heard that right. And we, or we'll say, let's try this for a week and see how it goes. That's one of the things that we say, that I offer parents as well. But I'm hearing it like, I think often we make a plan or a contract and it's like, okay, this is how it's going to be now, forever, exactly,

Cynthia Klein 38:19
exactly. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people got married and divorced, right? They

Casey O'Roarty 38:23
made a plan, they signed a contract. Didn't really work out.

Cynthia Klein 38:28
It didn't really work out okay, and and I think for kids to learn that in life, that we from the best of our ability, right now, we're going to make a decision, and we're going to see how it goes. So yes, I suggest you can say a week, whatever you feel in your family. So let's say, if you feel like you're feel like this is not going to work, and you don't want to wait a week, you might say, let's try this for three days, whatever you feel, what fit or your comfort level is because if, anyways, so you come up with a plan, write it down. Now, I feel like there's two parts to collaborative problem solving. The one part is to actually sit there and make a plan. That's the easy part. The hard part is following through. Okay, so, and I'm sure you do with parent. I mean, you know, positive discipline does a lot. I mean, I love their whole thing about family meetings and stuff. It's wonderful, yeah. So you make a plan to know that follow through won't necessarily be as easy. So please don't get mad with your kids if they have a hard time following through, right? So whenever you make a plan, so you just said, you know, a lot of times you say a week, which is fine, let's say, you say, Let's get together in a week and set a time that you're going to meet, yes, and you're gonna get together. Okay, we're gonna get together on next Friday at this time, and we're gonna see how this is going, if we need to tweak it and make other changes. Now, what? You do during the week, if it isn't working, what are your thoughts on that?

Casey O'Roarty 40:05
Well, I you know, it's what we do is hey, we recognize if there's a deadline or a timeline or we're in the moment. It sounds like, Hey, what did we agree to about the mornings? Uh huh, you know. And then you just get to become a broken record. What was our agreement? What was our agreement? And we get to let go of their eye roll and foot stomping. And then eventually, you know, there they are, fine, okay, right? Yeah, I'll do it, you know. And so it's just kind of that broken record. And how we follow up is by just staying calm and confident and consistent. That's what I would say.

Cynthia Klein 40:48
And if there's, if there's an issue, you may want to say, You know what? I've fallen back into being the one to remind you again, we gotta meet again tonight.

Casey O'Roarty 40:57
Sure, right? It sounds like this solution isn't, isn't we're just, and I think sometimes, you know, it's important to to remember that sometimes our kids are agreeable to a solution because they're just done with the conversation, yep. And so when it is a follow up, you know, when they're not following through, often, that could be part of it too, you know. And to just acknowledge, or, you know, for someone like me coming into this work was challenging. It was hard for me to let go of control. It still is challenging for me to let go of control, but it all. My kids always show me when I've created the solution versus if it's been co created, because if I've created it, it never is useful,

Cynthia Klein 41:37
no, because they'll also blame you. You know, I tried this and it was your solution, and you're thinking, I wait a minute. You agree to it, yeah, so if it comes from them, it works out much better. So again, you can say you're okay. I'm falling back into this role of reminding you, and this is not what I want to do, right? No, you might have to the after then is one of the things that sometimes work. One family I was working with, and they had two teenage boys, and they did this whole discussion. It was getting out of the house in the morning, and one of the issues was that they came up with they didn't like mom yelling at them to put that on the cell phone and get ready. Okay, so they made it right, right. So they made an agreement that nothing could be they couldn't use a cell phone until they had gotten already and the dog had been fed. Okay. Now the next morning, the boys wanted to see if they were going to really be held to task, sure. So the mom used the after, then the work before play, which is looked at the Sun. This one son was, oh, was on the cell phone, and they said, remember, after you get all ready, then you can be on the cell phone. So she didn't even go into the whole agreement. She made it shorter, and he looked at her and kind of smiled. And then he put the phone away. She was blown away, yeah. And then she even had the other son was playing with the dog in the morning, and she said, and she said, what's called an empathy phrase, which is like you're you know, you really love your dog, and your dog really loves you did. She didn't say, but she says, After you get ready, then you can play with the dog. So that's where you can also put some empathy in. And then you can see after that. So I think it's important for parents to see, to understand that I might have to use a director role strategy it's time to or after that. Or two of them collaborative problem solving,

Casey O'Roarty 43:39
yeah, and in positive discipline, we just call that connect before correct or redirect. Yeah, where it's like, I acknowledge you, I see you. And here's the expectation.

Cynthia Klein 43:51
You know, positive discipline knows about not saying but after your Oh, yeah, right, yes, yes, but just erases everything you say beforehand. It says what I'm saying, what I want is more important than right? The connection? Absolutely,

Casey O'Roarty 44:03
absolutely. Oh, that is so, so helpful. Thank you. So in the context, this is my final question for you, Cynthia, and I know you're a listener of the podcast, so you probably know what's coming in the context of ally parenting, which is the name of your book, what does joyful courage mean to you?

Cynthia Klein 44:25
You know, what's interesting with this question? What came up for me is I find parenting, especially teens and young adults, scary, because my daughter was bullied and there was because of that, she had all these girls turned against her, and she was traumatized for many, many, many years, many years. And so she did a lot of challenging, risky behavior. And so I had to feel a lot of fear, and for me to feel that fear and to realize that that's fear for now. And. Then for me to put that fear aside, because to be able to look through my child's current scary behavior, to look at her potential instead of, instead of the actions at that moment, what she was doing because to believe in her, that right now she's doing these things because of her lack of belief in herself, and I think having that feeling about her made her always be able to call me when things were really rough and they got pretty darn scary, yeah, but because of that, that so I see as my courage to have that courage and still Find joy amongst the fear, just not make that everything what I was feeling, to still find the joy and love with her, which made it so she could talk to me and connect with me. And the last starting probably her late 20s, she kind of got it all together.

Casey O'Roarty 45:56
Oh, thank you for sharing that. We just, I just completed a mini summit around adolescent mental health, and I feel like your response fits so nicely in regardless if it's that you know risky behavior because of bullying or just finding ourselves in a mental health conversation, and our kids like Being able to recognize the fear and set it aside so that we can really be there for our kids. And also, what I heard you say too, like, right now is not forever. Yeah, yep. So thank you. Thank you for

Cynthia Klein 46:33
that. There was there was the one scary time she was in the San Luis Obispo. We were driving away, and she was with this guy who was clinging onto her, and I did not know if I'd ever see my daughter again. So scary, I know fear. Yeah, now I'm joyful. Yay. Yeah, she's

Casey O'Roarty 46:50
married. She's married

Cynthia Klein 46:52
a wonderful guy, a guy that's stable and steady and she's gone up and down her whole life, but he was just kind of there, waiting somehow. Oh, that's

Casey O'Roarty 47:00
so great. Thank you for sharing. I think it's really important for parent educators, you know, to because this, there's no like, do this and everything will be magical, right? I mean, it's my

Cynthia Klein 47:12
daughter was, she was sneaking out at night. Oh my god, she told me things later in life. Oh, Mom, I used to do this. You didn't know. Oh, man, when the door was closed, I'm thinking, always keep your you know. She said, The only way you could have kept me in is if you had an alarm on the door, you know. So I went through a lot of stuff my daughter.

Casey O'Roarty 47:32
Well, where can listeners find more about you and follow your

Cynthia Klein 47:35
work? Great. So I think the best place is my website, and it's bridges, the number two, understanding.com because, you know, I love to be a resource for people, and they can find out about my book and my speaking and my coaching and my online classes at Bridges. Number two, understanding.com

Casey O'Roarty 47:57
Awesome. Are you on social media?

Cynthia Klein 47:59
I am. You can the AI, I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn. Oh, my social media person just started Instagram. So I think I'm great. Welcome to Instagram.

Casey O'Roarty 48:10
Cool. I know, right. Great. Well, I'll make sure that all those links are in the show notes for you all listeners, so that it's easy to find Cynthia, thank you so much for coming on and spending time with me today.

Cynthia Klein 48:21
Oh, this has been a pleasure. Enjoyed it so much. Thanks for inviting me.

Casey O'Roarty 48:28
Thank you so much for listening. It is my great honor to create this show for all of you. Big thanks to my producer, Chris Mann at pod shaper, for his work in making the podcast sound. Oh so good. If you're interested in continuing these powerful conversations that start on the podcast, become a patron by heading to www.patreon.com/joyful courage. That's www, dot, P, A, T, R, E, O n.com/joyful, courage. For $5 a month, you will have access to a private Facebook group where I do weekly Facebook lives on Mondays and interview recaps on Fridays. Plus it's a great way to give back to the show that gives you so much. Be sure to subscribe to the show. Head to Apple podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google Play, wherever you are listening to podcasts and simply search for the joyful courage podcast and hit that subscribe button, join our communities on Facebook, the live and love with joyful courage group and the joyful courage of parents of teens groups are both safe, supportive communities of like minded parents walking the path with you. If you're looking for even bigger, deeper support, please consider checking out my coaching offer. Www dot joyful courage.com/coaching is where to go to book a free explore. Call with me and we can see if we're a good fit. I'll be back. Back next week. Can't wait until then. Big Love to you. Remember to find your breath, ride it into your body, take the balcony seat and trust that everything is going to be okay.

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