Eps 270: Mental Spring Cleaning with Dr. Aprile Andelle

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Casey O'Roarty 0:03
Music. Hello friends. Welcome back to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of raising our kids. I am your host. Casey o'bordie, positive discipline trainer, parent coach and mom walking the path right next to you as I imperfectly raise my own two teens. Joyful courage is all about grit growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Today's show is an interview, and I encourage you to listen for how grit shows up as my guests and I tease things apart. Thank you so much for listening. I am so deeply honored to lead you. I'm grateful that what I put out matters to you, and I am so happy to keep it coming. Thank you for who you are and for being in the community. Enjoy the show.

Hello, listeners. I'm so glad to be back this week with today's guest. Her name is Dr April andell. Dr Andel is a black woman licensed psychotherapist with over nine years and 10,000 hours of experience in deep dive healing work with amazing clients all around the world. She hosts the do I need therapy podcast show available on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher, and speaks to her community openly, loudly and proudly about mental health, love and life, plus the process of therapy and the strength found in asking for help. She teaches amazing, high, ambitious women and women of color the skills of long, lasting, positive mental health and overcoming stress, overwhelm, anxiety, depression and trauma, including her every April psychological spring cleaning course offered every springtime in April to support the fierce yet sensitive woman achieve positive mental health all year long, she specializes in online and virtual therapy and offers mental wellness support for all through her Mental Health master classes, courses and meditations. She's a world traveler, currently based in Miami, loves all things declutter and minimal lifestyle, except plants. She says, you can never have too many plants and green stuff. I love that is described as that unique kind of person who makes lifelong friends in 24 hours or less, and can often be found on Instagram watching endless reels of laugh out loud, therapy, memes and reenactments, or enjoying a deep campfire style conversation on clubhouse. Hi, Dr Andel, welcome to the podcast. Hello.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 2:55
Glad to be here. Yay. I

Casey O'Roarty 2:58
am so glad that you are here. Can you start off by sharing a bit more with the listeners about your journey of doing what you do and who you are?

Dr. Aprile Andelle 3:10
Absolutely, my journey began a long time ago in the world. No, I'm kidding.

Casey O'Roarty 3:18
Far Far Away, far far

Dr. Aprile Andelle 3:19
away in a far away land.

Casey O'Roarty 3:21
You know, I

Dr. Aprile Andelle 3:22
had several different starts, which is actually really interesting, because once upon a time, I had no idea I was going to be a psychotherapist one day. So one start is when I graduated from college and I came out international business with a briefcase in hand, and I was like, I'm going to rule the world with my heels. So there's one start, and then I also worked in the media world, there's another start. And I transferred and realized that I really loved social engagement. And pieces of my training from business and media was culture and people, and I really just it connected with me on a much deeper level. And I'm telling you those personality tests that we took back in the day. I don't know if you've taken them at all. Oh yeah, I'm

Casey O'Roarty 4:15
an ENFP. Oh, right.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 4:16
INTJ. INTJ, those things, I took them way back when, and I was in high school, and so many times they pointed me to being a psychologist. I ignored every single one of them. I said, Okay, interesting, but I'm going to be a businesswoman. So it that part of that process, of my start came from how I became molded in the world, starting from business, moving to media, and then I landed so beautifully in therapy, which now can combine all of it. That's one piece. Another piece is that I grew up by myself. I was an only child. I had a wonder. Full, loving mother. Have She's amazing. She's a nurse. She gives a lot of care and compassion. My compassion and care comes from her. She's been doing it over 4040, years now, stunning woman, and inside was also a single mother. So she worked at night, when I was sleeping and when I was up during the day she was sleeping. So it was like a switch. So I grew up a lot of my own, and inside of that process, I just learned really hard about how that mental strength part and the weaknesses that you can have, it really does show up inside of those really quiet moments with yourself. So I struggled with depression. Didn't realize what that was. I struggled with not having anybody to talk to. Didn't understand that then, but when I later transitioned into being a therapist, I wanted to be that help to somebody else, if I could help some one person just feel like they have someone to turn to even just one. This is why I'm here.

Casey O'Roarty 6:04
Well, and I imagine what I know about psychology programs and things like that is that you get to do a lot of your own work. So surprise,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 6:16
yes, yes, I call it therapy school. But for me, it was seven years where I went from my master's degree I finished, and I said, I'm still hungry for more, and I knew how I'm always striving for that excellence. And I said, You know what? I want more of this. And so I got my doctorate. It's so interesting how I can say that in the span of 20 seconds, it was seven,

Casey O'Roarty 6:46
yeah, years, yeah. It's a big deal, good for you. And I imagine I just keep imagining too. I mean, there's the studying and the being of the student, but also because of the content, such powerful uncovering of things about yourself along the way, I'm sure, Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 7:06
The interesting thing was, pretty much along that lines, is how much you uncover of yourself. And yeah, for me in particular, I learned things about myself that I didn't quite realize. And I recognize that getting that degree, or even both of them, but just even one from the other, I uncovered new parts of myself. Then inside of the actual program, I was in a very intense program. It's one of the best in the country for my discipline, which is marriage and family therapies. It's just a fancy way of saying, I specialize in relationships, and they're really good at what they do. We have a very strong clinical practice, a lot of research, a lot of training and a lot of book reading. You know, many times we're in the textbooks, and when you're inside of those, particularly the diagnosing textbook. It's the DSM. It reads just like your your life. You start to realize, like, Oh man, I have, I have half of these things,

Casey O'Roarty 8:14
right. I can only imagine I have. I have a little pipe dream of going back to school to get my counseling degree. And I'm like, oh, geez, how much more is there to uncover? Much more Casey

Dr. Aprile Andelle 8:25
you're gonna find out all kinds of stuff about yourself. It's fun, it's it's grueling, but it's fun. And I have a small joke I tell some of my friends, even some of my clients. Sometimes, you know, because everything worth being rewarded by everything worth accomplishing. It's worth striving for, and it's worth the struggle through it. Yeah, and because of that uncovering, because of that process of finding out new things about yourself, in therapy school, I I remember one particular day I was in the tutoring lab because we have so much writing to do. So I got tutored religiously, like every single day. I had a wonderful tutor. So I went through that process one day, and I was just talking with a classmate, and she was saying, oh my gosh, I'm so stressed. And I said, Yeah, me too. And then, for some reason, I was just like, said, Yeah. I just, I had two breakdowns this time, you know, just, it just kind of happened. She laughed, and she said, Oh, good for you. Only two, good job. Yeah, it's, it's that kind of thing. But that program, it was amazing. It kind of tore you down and then built you back up. And I truly recognize the difficulty through it. Really was challenging. But man, you such a gift with a gift on the other side, yes, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 9:46
Well, and I love in in coaching, we say, you know, you have to break down to break through, right? Gotta break down to break through. And I definitely, you know, it's interesting to put it in the context of parenting. Just a little side note for my listeners. I remember. A few years back, when things got really intense with my oldest, my teenage daughter, who I talk about a lot on the show. She's given me permission, don't worry. But I remember like, these things would happen, and it would get like, more and more intense over a few days, and then there'd be this blow up, and then it was like, we could come back together. And in my mind, it was as if she was, like, building this wall over a few days, right? Building this wall and then something, whatever it was, like a behavior, or I find something out, or something would happen, and we'd have some kind of blow up in it, but it was what was needed to break down that wall so she could step back into relationship with me. And you're just reminding me of that. You know, how much is on the other side when we move through really tough times. So thanks. Thanks for that absolutely.

Speaker 1 11:02
So tell me about so we are in April, and you've got this cool program that I know is a little too late for my listeners to jump in on, but it's all about psychological spring cleaning. Tell me about what's prompted you to create this program.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 11:16
Oh, okay, well, I shared with you a little bit, and it's just the fact that I'm very transparent with everyone, with my clients, my friends, with my family, my mental health sensitivity is depression, and I know that, you know, a lot of people out there can relate, and it's something that we should all be talking about more, because once we talk about it, we realize we're not alone. And there are many different ways that people can, you know, feed us, encourage us, support us to move again. Like you said through it. Right to the other side of it, my depression started showing up when I was in high school. About that time is when I can pull back and start to realize some of those behaviors and symptoms, and it followed me all throughout my 20s, inside of every single major life transition, I didn't have a lot of the traditional support and environmental cocoon when I was moving through those processes through my 20s and my 30s, so things felt like it hit me harder, and then one of the biggest things was just struggling inside of I was single for a really long time, just constantly, and that was really challenging. So loneliness also triggered my depression. I carried that a lot. I started getting better understanding what it is I go to therapy school, I learned that this is a vital piece of my mental health. So all to say that I truly believe that that long, lasting positive mental health is really possible versus the constant ups and downs. Monday is great, Tuesday is terrible, Wednesday by Friday, you're just on the floor again, and you're constantly in this cycle of picking yourself up. And I want my amazing women and moms and kindred family to feel like they can do this over longer stretches of really strong mental health with me. Once I started really paying attention to it, I started doing small practices to help support that. When I started doing this psychological spring cleaning, it came to me because I just needed a renewal. I need a refresh. And for me, it's, it's something really special about the springtime. I even with my clients, I operate during seasons. I don't know if you do this well,

Speaker 1 13:50
I mean, you can't avoid it. I live, you know, I live, so I live in the Pacific Northwest. So it's so like, the seasons are like a part of the external environment. So I just can't, I mean, it's just, yeah, I love the spring, so I love this spring cleaning idea, because the spring, it's like, okay, it's a, here we go, yeah, new life, yeah, yes. And

Dr. Aprile Andelle 14:14
I think I've always been sensitive to it as well, because that's, that's actually my name, so my namesake, so I've always felt a little bit closer to that changing of, you know, even the world's energy, the Earth's energy, at least on this side of the world, that's, are

Casey O'Roarty 14:31
you a spring birthday?

Dr. Aprile Andelle 14:32
I am a spring baby. Yes, I

Casey O'Roarty 14:34
am. There you go. See it's all just coming together. Yeah, Mercury and

Dr. Aprile Andelle 14:39
Venus perfectly aligned exactly. So I definitely feel it stronger. So anyway, I just, I feel it more. People often express it during New Years, but for me, I feel it more during spring and New Year's is about goals and setting goals again for your year. But this is just, it's deeper, because we need to cleanse. Yes, since I started doing that, I can tell you that with my mental health sensitivity to depression, I have not fallen to any major depression in the past three years. Wow, three years now. I'm not saying I haven't had bad days. Mind you, sure I'm not saying that. You know, there

Casey O'Roarty 15:19
still are humans.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 15:20
Thank you, exactly, right. But, yeah, I know my major depressions. I know when I'm at the bottom of the pit. I know when I'm falling and I absolutely there's nothing I can do to just even grasp at the walls. I'm falling all the way down, and I stay there until I get the strength to start climbing back up. But I haven't been there in three years. And every time I think about that, I just get all warm and fuzzy. And I really want to teach it to others so that they can learn that this is possible, the ups and downs, you don't have to go through it well.

Casey O'Roarty 15:53
And I love what you said about New Year's being about goals and spring being a different kind of New Year, especially because, in my experience, which is not like, backed by research, but, you know, I get, I get really jazzed about New Year's and the new year, and I set those goals, and I get all excited, and there's all this like energy around January and then february, march. It's like, so it's perfect to have this April experience of like, okay, I get to actually turn and look at where I am right now and make some choices about being less of you know, I don't want to, well, I'm going to use the word victim, being less of a victim to circumstance and experience and more of the influencer of my life, which, you know, that's really what I'm hearing you talk about, is you've decided, you know, I know these things about myself, and I know what I need, and I know what I can do to help myself. You know, keep more of an even keel on the ups and downs, versus being inside of the big peaks and valleys. So that's really powerful.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 17:08
I'm really glad you feel so and I do want to just say that I love that you have that energy at the beginning of the year. It's, it's very it's very titillating. It's a lot of sensation. Yeah, yeah, the whole world is in it. There's fireworks and all the right. And, yeah, it does. Sometimes wither and die, but I know that sometimes those things stick, and sometimes they are still just as meaningful. And what I like to do is with the Earth, with the actual change of how the Earth is flowing and changing inside of, you know, it's very decor with the trees and the leaves and the green, it feels a little bit more visceral. It feels more at the real, and then also more grounded. You know, we talk about how you take off your shoes and you walk along the grass to ground yourself, back to the earth of the energy. And it's something like that. It's deeper, but both, both can have significant meaning. So I'm glad you get all jazzed up for your New

Speaker 1 18:07
Years. Yeah, definitely, well, and I think this is such perfect timing for this particular conversation on so many levels, because it is April 2021, like that's our context, and we are, for the most part. I could feel like I could speak for everyone and saying we are totally over pandemic life, over it, over it. And you know, you know that my audience are parents of teens, and we are a group of people that are definitely feeling the tension and asking, you know, what is this time gonna mean for our kids? Have we done enough for them? Have we been enough for them? Our teens are really struggling with the people that you serve. Who are parents? What are you what's coming up for them around this what kind of conversations are you having?

Dr. Aprile Andelle 18:59
I'm I am having some some conversations of victory, right? So there's this whole process that we've all been in and trying and working and really going through this discovery of the new normal, right? This is setting your life without the expectations of what it was a year prior, right? So I am getting some victory, and people feeling fulfilled and so happy to hear that. So if that's you out there, you know, every victory that you have more power to you, and you know, keep on going. I also get a little bit of the feeling of failure. One of my actually is one of a really good friend of mine. She's like a soul sister. She just described to me the other day that she feels like she's, I'm failing in life. She's got two little boys. One of them does act like a. Teenager and her, I just went to visit her, you know, masked and everything, of course, but her house was out of order. She hadn't gotten dinner started yet. Everything was all over the place, and things were chaotic and hectic. And her older son was just kind of flailing about, just just flailing about. She says, I feel like I'm failing. And I've heard that before, and I really want to encourage your moms out there, moms of joyful courage, this failure thing is, it's it's not, it's not something I want you to subscribe to. The feeling first of all, and this is just a little mental health psychotherapist lesson, feelings are temporary. Yeah, think about it all the time, from that moment to the next a year ago, they're always changing. They're always evolving. So even though it may feel that way for a moment, you don't want to live there, because it'll change. So that feel of failure, you want to think a bit more as just something to acknowledge, rather than something to really take in and believe. If that makes sense, yeah, let's

Casey O'Roarty 21:20
talk a look. Can we play around with that a

Dr. Aprile Andelle 21:22
little bit nice?

Casey O'Roarty 21:23
Yeah, because I know that that's a biggie. You know, that's a big one. I think that's a big one, even outside of this pandemic context. I think parenting, especially as moms like there's just so many we set ourselves up thinking that we're supposed to be perfect, and then, of course, we aren't perfect, because we are human beings. And so that failure conversation is just always ready to pop up. And I'm wondering, so you said, and I love what you said, don't live in it, right? And so speaking to the people that are listening who are feeling that way, what does not living inside of it look like, like, what's the process? Can you take us through a process that'll help us when we have those feelings of feeling because, like, I mean, especially with our teenagers, there are so many things that come up, you know, doors slamming, parents that are feeling really disconnected to their teens, like their teens aren't willing, wanting to talk to them, you know, watching them just, you know, fall apart with the school situation right now, worried about their future. It's and I've been there too. I've been in some really dark times and and knowing in my head, it's not always going to be like this, like knowing those words, but at the same time, the fear of, how could this pass? How is this ever going to look any different, also exists. And how do you support people in being with both of those things.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 23:01
Big, big question. Yeah, I

Casey O'Roarty 23:03
put you on the spot. You sure did 10,000 hours of clinical practice, though. Come on, girl, I

Dr. Aprile Andelle 23:08
got I got you. I got you, though, because I got 10,000 hours, right? You're good. I

Casey O'Roarty 23:12
know I wouldn't have asked if I didn't have total faith. I think

Dr. Aprile Andelle 23:15
that it's broken into two things. One is the care of you, of Mom, it's the care of you as a caregiver, as mom, yeah, as a person, and the other is a caregiver of your teen, right? And that other, that other entity of you. So let me, let me respond first to just the care of mom. Love that. So I think it's really a formation of, how are we doing strong things to improve and maintain good emotional health as a basis, as a foundation, not as an afterthought, right? Yeah, as the foundation of how you're operating every single day. And I can give you just, you know, quick tips that you have heard before. You have all heard before, but it's just, it's just that needing of constant ongoing support and encouragement and reminders to help you to kind of just, just wing back, just wing back to the balance, right? Yeah, one of the things is making sure that you think before you act, you think before you speak.

Casey O'Roarty 24:28
Would that be being responsive versus reactive? Ooh,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 24:31
look at her over here. Yes.

Casey O'Roarty 24:35
Well, I am a life coach.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 24:38
You know this stuff in this life coach, absolutely, absolutely well,

Casey O'Roarty 24:42
and it's all good when I'm supporting clients. It's another thing when I'm confronted by my own children, right? Exactly,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 24:47
exactly. And this is a lesson that they need to learn too, but you're the grown up, so what I share with clients is to kind of think of it in regards to giving yourself. Of timing, whether you're breathing through it, whether you're saying a little mnemonic, whatever it is, I would tell my clients to think about giving yourself five to 10 seconds. And when you are angry and in the moment and upset, that five seconds even it takes forever and you need to count, yeah, one, Mississippi, two, Mississippi, you know, all the way until you get to five to 10. Yeah, that extra amount of time is going to help you to slow down and process, not only your thoughts, but what you think is happening on the other end, with your team, with your child, what's going on over there? What are some of the other possibilities here, and making sure that that sharp tongue that just comes out of stress or anxiety or misunderstanding or miscommunication or confusion or I don't know, or hurt to do, and that was our hurt Exactly. It just gives that a little bit of time so that that sharp tongue doesn't, you know, do damage, essentially, and then we, we just kind of center again inside of that just five to 10 seconds, minimum. How's that? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 26:10
I would say 10. Let's just tell everyone to do 10 seconds. I love that. And what I love about that too is it's something that you know, for many of us, something that I encourage parents to do when it's like, Okay, I'm ready to change things up. I'm ready to shift the dynamic and do the work, something that I want to encourage everybody that's listening to remember to do too, is to this isn't a secret. Like, let your family in on it. Let them know. Like, you know what? I notice that I'm getting reactive so quick with you all, and I'm gonna start practicing doing something different. So I am gonna there is gonna be a delay. If I'm doing my practice, there is gonna be a delay. And if there's a delay, just know that's me coming down and really wanting to understand, to hear you, and to show up in a way that is help, more helpful and less hurtful? Oh, yeah, for you. So I love encouraging parents to get everyone in on it,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 27:10
yeah, yeah. It's just basic communication, because you're doing it as a family unit, and when you're open about it, then you know, your kids are going to see the struggle of how you move from, you know, difficulty, to triumph. And that's it's not easy for you either, but you're still there, working hard at it. You're being

Casey O'Roarty 27:30
right, modeling that, that's it, yeah, normalizing that emotional intelligence journey. I love that yes,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 27:37
and that it's not always smooth, right

Casey O'Roarty 27:40
now, this so not always smooth. Well, especially like the current context, it's just so weird and the uncertainty. I mean, even though I definitely feel like there, you know, everything that's come up in the last year, I feel like has been so important, just the whole shake up of things are not as they appear. So get it together, humans. I appreciate it, and I'm learning myself so much and listening and paying attention. And I do believe that there's an opportunity to move through this time into a new normal that is way better than where we've come from, right? So not just like going back to what we used to know, but really moving forward into a time and space where you know life and people are just more valued, and that whole idea of mental health and mental well being is held up as like, Well, yeah, we all do it like I, for me, I really push my clients and into this. I don't like the phrase self care, because I feel like it just gets overused, but like it's non negotiable. So you saying, hey, let's start with looking at our relationship with ourselves, absolutely, absolutely. If you're standing here saying, I want to create something different in my family. I want to change up the dynamics of my family, there's no shortcut that skips getting your shit together. That's correct.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 29:21
That is correct. And in fact, if there was a shortcut, that is the shortcut actually,

Casey O'Roarty 29:27
right? Yes, yes, yes, exactly, exactly you

Dr. Aprile Andelle 29:31
handle you first. Everything else falls after that. I know it doesn't feel like that once again, that that feeling word, it doesn't feel like that in the moment, but it is absolutely true, and you see this more so over the long run. So, you know, I'm amazed with how moms are so incredibly you know, in always in forethought, always thinking, 510, 15 moves and lesson,

Casey O'Roarty 29:58
I don't know that at all. He serves. Because I think sometimes that forethought takes us places that aren't necessarily, you know, if the forethoughts taking us to dead in a ditch, you know, like, it's just not useful even, you know. I mean, as far as, like, navigating, like, what, what am I gonna make for dinner? And did I pull the stuff out and like that kind of stuff, yes. But I also think it can get us into some mischief if we're not paying attention. You are

Dr. Aprile Andelle 30:27
absolutely right. There's always, like, this line drawn in the sand. If you cross over that line, you know, yeah, the light and the dark, yes, you know. So I'm always just very impressed by that, and I would just say to to use it to to your benefit. And if you know that you have crossed that line, which is that's where you go back to your intuition, your Yeah, your inner voice, your gut. When you know that it's too far, you're too stretched, you are not feeling like yourself, then that's when you absolutely know that those are alarm bells actually? Yeah, it was time to slow down. So

Speaker 1 31:04
I'm guessing, like those alarm bells going off, and even when you said listening to that intuition and inner voice, and you know, there's a lot of clutter that we collect over time internally that really mutes and disconnects us to that inner voice. And so I'm wondering, I'm going to circle back to the psychological spring cleaning, talk to me a little bit more about the process. And is that what it's about? Is it about kind of cleaning up that clutter so that we can be with our highest selves, our inner voice, our intuition, in a more meaningful way,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 31:46
absolutely and so much of it is, I recognize, is, is even before the pandemic, this was something that we always needed to do, for sure, but we, I don't know if there was ever really a practice, unless you're really Good with that, sitting down reflecting, you know, the people who have the Journals,

Casey O'Roarty 32:04
Journal, oh, girl, that's me. I love you. I'm really impressed by you most days, some days, and then parks where I don't

Dr. Aprile Andelle 32:11
I'm usually in a park with trees and green stuff all around me. Yeah, the journals. So whatever floats your boat that, but I've been reading a lot of research lately, a lot of research, and bear with me. The research is saying that there's somewhere around 63% of parents that felt that they had lost emotional support during the pandemic. And that's a I think it was the rapid EC project that did that up in the northeast, 63% of their population. And so I took it upon myself, and I was just going through my clients, and I kind of did my own survey, and the things that I found were just stunning. It was so surprising. These are women between their 30s and their 40s, and they have are both their parents, or they're not parents, and you find that a lot of them are very similar. These things that clutter up their mind are, you know, fear, failure, body image is still there, still present as you get older, the aspects of feeling real, true, romantic love there and still being still a major want, being paralyzed by lack, what you feel you do not have resource to was another one. I had a client mention it as it's like I always feel that there are so many missing pieces, reinforced voices of doubt, reinforced meaning that there is a doubt, and then you come in with your own mind and messages that further sustain those thoughts, lots of imposter syndromes. Another study was also reported how think it was CNN last year, last fall, where they were saying that there was some 617,000 women that had actually left the workforce. Imagine the intentional effect it has on you. Yeah, and these are women, 30s and 40s. This is prime years for career, and they've lost this purpose, this kind of meaning, you know, that righted them, had a big part of their day and who they were, along with, you know, family and their relationships. So it's a big thing, and fear and anxiety over everything, because everything is unknown. So, yeah, there's a lot of correlation. And then you go in deeper, am I enough? Am I doing the right things? Will I be okay? Will my family be okay? Will my child make it? Will we both make it? Will we all make it through this? All those things become this constant, recurring message that I keep saying whenever I'm just, you know. Checking my clients,

Casey O'Roarty 35:03
and so how do you a lot of that resonates with me too, and the the community that I hold and the space that I hold for parents, those are the questions and the worries and the fears and and something that I and, you know, April, I don't know if you know this about me, but the pandemic in my family also came with my husband being diagnosed with cancer. So a year ago, he had this massive spine surgery and quickly followed by a diagnosis of Multiple Myeloma. So we had pandemic and we had dads in cancer treatment, and he, you know, as of today, he is totally cancer free. And, you know, it's not a back to normal, but it's a forward into, you know, what life looks like now. You know, I had a lot of you know, along the way, I've been sharing pretty candidly and openly with my community, and I get a lot of feedback around how strong I am and how optimistic I am and how courageous I am, and I just and part of me is, you know, I take the feedback, I am grateful for the acknowledgement, but the other part of me is like, Well, God, what's the alternative? Like I'm not. I can't live day to day in a place where I'm dooming and glooming what I don't know is going to be a potential outcome, right? And so, and this is something that I try to support my clients with, as well as you know that that whole like be in the present moment, meaning like, be with what is in your control and in your power right now, and then surrender to the idea that you don't know. There was actually a mom that posted in my community recently about her son who is a senior in high school, and, you know, is having a really hard time, and they're not sure that he's going to graduate, and they can't get him a good therapist. And I loved one of the commenters from the community also said, you know, there are so many different stories of success, and you have no idea what your son's story is going to be, and so just being inside of the possibility versus, like, drowning by the uncertainty. Like, that's where I want to live. I want to be, like, swimming in the in the possibility. Because we don't know. We don't know. Yeah, the worst thing possible could happen, but So could the best thing possible. So, right, yeah, that was a, kind of a tangent.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 37:43
That was a great tangent. And Casey, may I just say I've heard bits and pieces. I'm I'm been what I've been listening to, like the later part of your shows, so hearing it in full, right now, you know, wow. And Hallelujah. Hallelujah, yeah. Holly, for real, you know, give him a hug for me. You know,

Casey O'Roarty 38:03
I will.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 38:05
I just it is you had a pandemic on top of a pandemic, I would call that, and I can't imagine what that must have been. But that process of processing, the fact that you had different tiers of crisis, different tiers of emotional response, because you have different tiers of people inside of this family system, it must have been absolutely overwhelming. And there are moments and times for that too. But I'm going to circle back once again and say that as soon as you figure out how you need to show up in a particular time and place, what is going to be the best one? And I know that takes time. Sometimes it's sometimes hard to be retrospective and be like, okay, like, this is what's happening if I were to go a week from today or even a day from today, how would I want to be in this moment, so that you don't regret anything, so that you are taking full notice of things, so that you've slowed down, so that you've been present, so that you've offered support, you've offered kind words, and, you know, held back any sharp tongue, you know, all those things. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 39:21
well, and I love thinking about, like, Who do I want to be through this process, right? You know, whether it's my story or, you know, like I said, My people are parents of teenagers, so like, Who do you want to be your teens are going to bring all the typical things that teens bring, because that's developmentally appropriate. Who do you want to be for them and for yourself as you navigate it brilliant. I

Dr. Aprile Andelle 39:44
know you teach your clients, amazing that that is a gem right there. Yeah, that is one. And

Casey O'Roarty 39:51
it's and it's practice. It takes practice, right? And that's what you're talking about, that spring cleaning and the practices that have supported you.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 39:59
Right? Yes, yes, this and there's three steps. It's really great. Yeah, simple. The three steps. It begins with mind dumping. And I love this part, but it's also the scary part too, because you have to dig deep here. If I tell it to you right now, you're going to be more shallow, as opposed to when you're working with somebody and they're telling you, it's, it's deeper than that, but in in essence, you start out and what are your fears and your worries? Oh, I should preface that by saying, hopefully you do have that journal or that piece of paper, or, you know, some book, something meaningful that you can write these things down into. And I encourage writing visceral with pen and paper of some sort, because it has to be a process of flow, and you're writing down what keeps you up at night? What are your fears? What are the worries? What are the messages that you tell yourself when you make a mistake? What are the thoughts of yesteryear of the coulda, shoulda, woulda. What are the things that you were like? I should have been so much further than here, right? Or what are the comparisons that you have made for yourself to somebody else that are not growing you not when you admiring somebody and trying to reach their level in aspiration or inspiration, but when you are comparing yourself and then putting yourself down all of those things, the worries, the fears, the comparisons, the negative thoughts and messages, what you tell yourself in the deep, dark moments, those things all have to come out. Yeah, release, release every single one of them. And that's why it takes time, and it takes a significant amount of courage as well, because you have to actually say them out loud. You have to acknowledge them. I don't want you to keep them. So it's kind of hard, because when I'm working with a client, I am actually writing down that message. I don't want them to pull it out into the universe. But it's different. When it's it's being taught, you write it down to acknowledge it. You write it down to see it in black and white, and then along that way, you are looking and recognizing Is this how a best friend would speak to you? Would would your best friend say this?

Unknown Speaker 42:26
Right? No,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 42:28
no. Would your spouse say this to you? Hopefully not your relationship, right?

Casey O'Roarty 42:34
Yeah, if so, we have another podcast discussion. Right?

Dr. Aprile Andelle 42:39
Exactly. You just go down the list of all the loved ones, and then they also go down the list of what is the evidence of the contrary, right? And you work really hard to cross all those things out once they've been recognized. And I know that sounds very Woo, but I'm telling you it Oh,

Casey O'Roarty 42:55
that, My people are cool with that. They're Woo, okay, oh yeah, all right. I mean, if they're not, then they, I don't know why they keep listening to me, because I am,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 43:03
I know I'm Wu I am a psychotherapist and but this stuff works. I

Casey O'Roarty 43:07
love it. It's, yes, exactly. That's

Dr. Aprile Andelle 43:10
just step one. That's just the mind dump. And it takes so much courage and bravery to do this. So I often channel Brene Brown. She's talking about, listen your vulnerability is what makes you brave your vulnerability, and you putting the light to the shame that you feel, that's what's going to heal you. Yeah, that's where you're going to find your strength. So bring it out already. It's just very detail, very frank. So I channeled their her throughout that, that exercise, the the second piece of it is to go through and to declutter what does not work anymore.

Casey O'Roarty 43:54
Like looking at the mind dump. Oh yeah, you look at the using it. Okay, so it's Yeah, and I love I just want to before we get into decluttering, I really appreciate looking for evidence for the contrary, and so I just want everyone to understand, like what that means, because it's so power. It's such a powerful exercise, that I want you to kind of make sure that you land it

Dr. Aprile Andelle 44:18
so when that's happening in your you. You have certain messages of yourself. For example, I, I, I'm always

Casey O'Roarty 44:30
right, like, even just, I'm a terrible mom, right? I always yell at my kids,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 44:33
exactly do your kids who are hanging on your arm with you right now, looking all lovey dovey up at you. Are they? Are they going to say that same thing, that you are a terrible mom all the time? Oh, I'm laughing

Casey O'Roarty 44:47
because I'm thinking that the parents of teenagers wouldn't care what their teens were saying if they were hanging on their arms right now. But you're right, yeah, like I Yes, correct. You know. The evidence is contrary, and the things that we do for our family fly in the face of the some of the self talk that we hold as truth about ourselves. I love that. Every

Dr. Aprile Andelle 45:11
now and then you get a thank you, you know, yeah, I know. Every now and then it happens, you get a big hang in there. Parents hang in there. It happens, you know, and those are the contrary moments that you have to remember.

Casey O'Roarty 45:32
Okay, step two, Declutter. Yep, decluttering.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 45:35
What's, what are those things on that list? What are the confidence killers? What are the coulda, shoulda, woulda that you get out and what also is misaligned to who you are today. And this past year has definitely taught us that. So your same coping strategies may or may not work from your coping strategies a year ago. And it's the same thing with who you are today may or may not work with who you were last year or 10 years ago, if you're still holding on to the dream from 10 years ago, does that still fit with who you are today? If not, you gotta cross it out, and that's okay. And you do. I like to do Marie Kondo through this. That's who I

Casey O'Roarty 46:15
like. Hey, Marie, you've got a whole team. I love it. There

Dr. Aprile Andelle 46:19
we go. Yeah, so declutter fades. Is all throughout that, and it's fun that one's fun half the time, people realize that everything gets crossed out just about, yay, right? The final step is the shine. Shine is making sure that you focus on what brings you joy, what brings you peace, what brings you that mental wellness, what keeps you in the present to enjoy life. And these things are where you're doing a lot of instead. I call them instead because instead of what you are were doing that wasn't helpful, or you were thinking that wasn't supportive or kind or productive, what are you doing instead? One of those things is making sure that you're self coaching yourself with what I call power affirmations. These affirmations are not just I'm going to be okay, but they have to be strong enough to cover I am such a terrible mom, they have to be large enough to cover that over. So they have to be a powerful affirmation. You know, I am an amazing mother because of a B or C,

Casey O'Roarty 47:30
yeah, I'm a kick. I show up, yeah? I show up every day, wanting to be in relationship and taking care of my family, even if they're not showing up. Well for us moms and dads like I think that that's not, that's kind of the work, right? Is, it's letting go of the external. I mean, you know, in certain contexts, of course, the external is giving you feedback about how you're showing up. But the teen years are these really unique, weird times where we can't necessarily judge ourselves by how you know, these adolescents are moving through their experience, you know, and that's really hard. That's much harder than I ever realized it would be until I actually was parenting teens. But you know, it's an inside job right now, in parenting this, this period of time, is such an inside job. As far as like and like, God, they're being little shits, and I'm gonna show up like this, right, right? I'm gonna keep knocking on the door and telling them that I love them and going in for the hug even as she, I mean, my daughter was like, like, said, perfected this move this, like, pivot, slide away, move anytime I went to try to touch her for a while, and it, I mean, broke my It killed me. But I didn't stop trying, right? I didn't stop trying.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 49:03
And you have to make sure that you are reminding yourself and coaching yourself through those moments that this is why I'm doing this. This is why I'm doing this. I'm a great mom. I'm going to be there for her. I'm going to, I'm going to show up every single time that she gives me that look, and she does that every single time, and you just, you just move through it. The thing is, it's going to leave you stronger on the other end, it's hard to do, yeah, but you do it, and you also give yourself Grace during this time. You practice really positive coping skills, you nurture your relationships, yeah? And you you just you recommit to these dream goals that you have for yourself, your family and your loved ones, you recommit, you know

Casey O'Roarty 49:43
what? Like, I talk a lot about the teens, let's talk about the parents, because it's just, so, you know, it's just, it's really where the work is. And my husband and I went to couples therapy as my daughter was just moving into high school, and I will never forget her saying, like, right now. Now the most important thing you can do for your teenagers is to get a life and work on your relationship. And that really stuck with me, because I think it's really easy. And maybe because of the pandemic and us all being underfoot all the time, maybe it's now part of the problem is that we just are too we're too close physically to everybody in our family right now, and so it's really easy to get a little overly obsessed about what everyone's doing. I can't, you know, not me, just

Dr. Aprile Andelle 50:34
kidding. Never you know.

Casey O'Roarty 50:35
But I want, I want, as we kind of wrap this up, I want you to talk a little bit about because I know that people are curious for more and want to know more about you. I was going to have you guide us through a grounding. You have this great blog post about the mindful morning routine, but we're not going to be able to do that, so I want you to just tell my people where they can find you and all the ways that you offer support.

Dr. Aprile Andelle 51:00
Oh, absolutely, and all of your listeners are more than welcome anytime I can be a support. So right now, I live at April and dell.com it's just my name.com, that is it. And you can go there and find I've got masterclasses and meditations are actually going to be starting in this summer, because we need those mindful moments just to kind of stop and center and pivot. But meditation is going to be fun too. You can, you know, go into what I call dream state, and that's one thing I'm doing actually in the course. And, you know, hopefully one point in time listeners will be able to enjoy that, but you're always welcome to join that. And I do a monthly mental health masterclass every single month, and that's going on right now and usually towards the end of the month, so listeners can still join me there. And is that

Casey O'Roarty 51:54
like a what like a one shot webinar? Or is it a few sessions? What does the masterclass entails a

Dr. Aprile Andelle 52:01
one shot web allowing me online, and let me give you just a few tips. I can hold you over, because another thing is about when you're doing mental health and you're doing it strongly and well, it's ongoing. That's my favorite word in therapy. It's on going. You brush your teeth every day you write every single day. You know it's the same thing. So ongoing support, for sure. I also have a do I need therapy? Discovery call, Hey, do I need therapy? Let's talk about it. Most of the times, answer is yes, right? You know, I

Casey O'Roarty 52:41
mean, come on, we all need therapy. We absolutely we should have, just like we have, like wellness every year, check ins with our, you know, our general practitioner, yeah, this should be part of the annual, even though they ask a couple questions, like, there should be a proper therapy appointment. I think for everyone annually,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 53:00
I petition. I'm in Florida. I'm in Miami. I petitioned that in Tallahassee. At one point, I'd love to go a good job to the, you know, up to Congress, and be like, Hey, this is a thing. Awesome support. But yes, I hope that too. So you know, your your listeners are always going to be welcome. I'm going to keep it open and throughout the summer. So if you come in and you join for our discovery session, just put in the code joyful courage. 21 and your listeners are going to get not just like 10% off or 25% off. I'm giving them half off. So wants to come through Come let's have a chat real quick. I always leave you with this is the recommendation I have for you. These are some key people, some key resources. Could it be me? Could it be somebody else? And these are the tips that you would need inside of really working through therapy. And again, you have them if you join me, or if you start working with anybody else. I would love to do that for joyful courage in your Oh,

Casey O'Roarty 54:03
that's so generous. Thank you so much. And listeners, I'll make sure there's a link for that in the show notes, so you'll be able to get your hands on that and take advantage. And the

Dr. Aprile Andelle 54:13
other thing is just, um, every April is literally every April. And to be every April. It's going to be every springtime. So if you're joining or listening now or later, just go on to the website every april.com, and you know, join for the wait list. And we're going to do it again every April. And I'd love to pray too. Awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 54:33
Well, and I always complete my interviews with this question, what does joyful courage mean to you? Dr Andel, Oh,

Dr. Aprile Andelle 54:45
that's such a wonderful question. Joyful courage to me means being able to experience every single day me authentically doing exactly what brings me joy. I. And whether I have courage or not, right? Yeah, whether I have courage or not, I'm going to step into it, because on the other side of that, there is joy, and I would love that, oh, and lots of green stuff and water, and all the drink your water hats and, you know, all those things so joyful courage. And I think it's just living a really authentic life that leaves you with joy behind

Casey O'Roarty 55:25
beautiful thank you so much. Thank you so much for all your time. It's been so great to get to know you and to have this conversation likewise

Dr. Aprile Andelle 55:35
and to your listeners. Well wishes to each and every one of you. You're stronger than you think. Remember George Adair said, everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear, so just move through it. You're going to be better for it, and you guys are amazing, just just as you guys.

Casey O'Roarty 55:58
All right, thank you again for listening. If you feel inspired and you haven't already, do me a favor and head over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. We are working hard to stand out and make a massive impact on families around the globe. Your review helps the joyful courage podcast to be seen by even more parents. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Also follow joyful underscore courage on Instagram, find us on Facebook. We love connecting with you on social media, and don't forget as a member of the joyful courage community, you can access counseling and get 10% off your first month at www.betterhelp.com/joyful courage. Big, huge. Love to you. I will see you next week. Bye, bye.

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