Eps 273: Casey Interviewed On the Adventure of Raising Teens with Mindy Duff

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Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:03
Music. Hey friends, welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of parenting. I am your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline trainer, parent, coach and Mama walk in the path right next to you as I imperfectly raise my own two teenagers. Joyful courage is all about grit growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Today's show should have been a solo show, but I had the amazing opportunity to be a part of a book launch event last week and was interviewed by Mindy Duff, one of the authors of a new book called motherhood diaries. We had such a good time during the interview that I asked Mindy if she would share it with me so that I could turn it into a podcast. So today's show is Mindy interviewing me because it wasn't something I knew I would be uploading to the podcast. The sound isn't quite as good as it normally would be, but I'm guessing you will be willing to forgive me for that before we get started, though, I want to talk a bit about Mindy and the collaboration resulting in motherhood diaries. So motherhood diaries is a collection of short stories that beautifully weave together the peaks and valleys of power within motherhood, written for moms by moms. Its intention is to be a beacon of light to all mothers at any stage of their motherhood journey. This book is currently for sale on Amazon. Get your copy today. Mindy is one of the authors of this book, and Mindy Duff is a certified holistic health and nutrition coach, a speaker and a published author. Her mission is to help individuals uncover their best selves through the power of nutrition, self care and self love, Mindy and I go on all sorts of walks through this conversation, all of what we talk about, lives inside of the experience of raising teens and tweens. Today, you'll hear some of my story about my daughter and I and how I have learned to see the value of her self preservation skills, about why we need to stop taking credit when our kids are struggling or thriving, and dropping our ego so we really can meet our kids where they're at. Plus lots more, it is always so fun for me to be on the other side of the interview, and I am so happy to be sharing this one with you. Thank you so much for listening. I am deeply honored to lead you, grateful that what I put out matters to you and so, so stoked to keep it coming. Thanks for who you are and for being in the community. Enjoy the show.

Mindy Duff 3:00
Oh, welcome. Welcome everyone. If you are joining us here today, again, I'm Mindy Duff, one of the co authors of the motherhood diaries, and I am just super excited to chat today with Casey o'rourkey. Am I saying that? Right? Casey,

Casey O'Roarty 3:13
you are good job. It's a lot of vowels. Yeah, it is

Mindy Duff 3:19
there. Casey is of joyful courage, and she is a parent coach and a positive discipline coach, and that she specializes in the tween and teen years. And I am very interested in this, because my firstborn is in just entering the tween years, and it's a different ball game. I'm curious to hear what you have to say, Casey, can you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do?

Casey O'Roarty 3:47
Yeah, so, like you said, my business is joyful courage. I've been facilitating positive discipline workshops and training since 2007 my kids were one in four when I became trained up and I sought it out because I needed it. What was super easy with one kid became really challenging with two, plus all of my conditioning, all of the things that I said, I'm never, never gonna do that thing that was done to me like all of that, turns out, was right there on the surface, like, pick me, pick me when I was in overwhelm and stress. And so having been a teacher, an elementary school teacher, and having already been teaching, doing some parenting classes with a different program, I thought, you know, I'm just going to keep adding to my toolbox, and I'm going to check out this program that a dear friend of mine swore by and did the training, and it changed the dynamics in our household. It was super powerful, personally, and I knew after that that this was the work that I was being called to do. And. Uh, you know, I mean, grew as a facilitator, grew as a parent, one of the kind of underlying principles, and it comes from a guy named Rudolph dreikers. He says, to have the courage to be imperfect. And I think that really captures the spirit of positive discipline, and of what I think is a really powerful opportunity for personal growth and development in the context of parenting, right? Like, oh my god, you didn't know you signed up for this lifelong workshop. But you know, sure enough, if you're paying enough attention, the opportunities to continue to evolve as a human are just endless. And that's really been my journey. I started writing about my experiences, because a lot of the people that I taught were like, Okay, but what does this really look like, you know? And so I started writing stories of what it really looked like, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. And just was really candid in my sharing, and sometimes the blogs were, you know, informational, like three tips blah, and sometimes the blogs were really narrative, and it really landed with people, and I started to really enjoy the online space. And this was a long time ago. This was like 2012 and thought, you know, I lived in a small town in Washington State, and my reach was only, you know, there was only so many people on this tiny, slightly redneck town that were open to my crazy ideas about parenting. And so the online world really called to me, and I build a website. And 2014 I started podcasting. Loved that, and you know, my my reach has grown, and now my kids are 18 and 15, and the transition into the teen years was really, like traumatizing in a lot of ways, nothing that I expected. I kind of, you know, thought I've been teaching parenting for the last 10 years, so it's probably not going to be that hard for me. And lo and behold, there was some deep personal learning that was invited with my oldest moving into high school, and that has carried on pretty intensely for the last three years, which included all the things like substance use and boyfriends and friendship and you know, she dropped out of school and completed her GED. She struggled with really intense anxiety and depression, and has come out the other side. She's in her fifth week a vestetician school loves it is thriving. I have total confidence in her creating the life that she wants, which, three years ago, you know, I felt like I was drowning in fear and worry, even with all my tools. And then I have a younger one that's 15, and he's a freshman in high school, and he's, like, super easy going. So I love the tweens and the teen years, because now that I'm kind of have been through, and I'm sure there's gonna be plenty with my son that just hasn't surfaced yet, but it's such an amazing experience to have lived through and worked through and grown through what my daughter and I went through and to be somewhere, to be able to look back and say, Wow, the gifts were monumental in that period of time. And I'm so glad that I I like to say, I let her take the lead, but there was really no choice. I mean, it's either let her take the lead or what I don't know. I don't know what that alter reality would have been. And in hindsight, I realized, like her desire to survive was a lot higher than I realized at the time, and the choices that she was making and what she was declaring, while it just came right in the face of everything that I thought and believed about, you know, adolescence and high school and education, like it was her way of of surviving, of knowing what she needed and what she needed was out of that environment. So, yeah, I love these years. They're hard, but they're awesome.

Mindy Duff 9:22
I Well, there's so many, um, how do I put this learning opportunities in this, this age group? Right? I mean, kind of that final step into adulthood. And you know, when they're kids, we try to protect them and keep them safe, and as they get older, it's harder to do that,

Casey O'Roarty 9:43
yeah. And I think we all want them to grow in their sovereignty, and yet we're like, well, we're not going to give you any sovereignty, right, but, you know, and so we have to be brave enough to allow space for that, which is, you know, absolutely easier. So. Than done, but possible, yes,

Mindy Duff 10:02
for sure, yeah, being able to let them fall and be there, help pick them up. And how lucky for both you and your daughter? How lucky for her to have a mom, even though I'm sure at the time, you're thinking, this is I don't know what I'm doing, this is not what I expected, right? But still, you having the the background and the tools that did nothing but help the situation, and then now, having been through that, you're able to help your own clients so much more, because you can say, Hey, listen, I've been there, right?

Casey O'Roarty 10:35
Yeah, I told, I told her all along the way, like you are making me a better parent coach. This is helping me serve the world, and I didn't always do the right things, like we went through a DBT program, dialectic behavioral therapy, a six month program together, and I actually had her on my podcast to talk about this. But there was a lot of things that I thought I was doing to be helpful that actually were not helpful to her, and she is happy to let me know those things. And I am humble enough, you know, to receive the feedback and not get defensive, which is a practice every day, not getting defensive, not taking it personally and course correcting, you know, catching myself when I slide into those behaviors and patterns. So, yeah,

Mindy Duff 11:25
I think when you say not taking it personally, that's a big one. I know, for me with my own kids, I can be so centered and so grounded in every other area of my life. And then when it comes to something my kids do like they just, they know how to get under my skin for whatever reason, and it doesn't help anything when you when you let allow that to happen. So, yeah, yeah, that's a skill. Yeah, it is. And I think

Casey O'Roarty 11:49
it's really interesting too. Like, even the language that we use, like pushing buttons or getting under our skin, like, what gets under my skin is totally, probably, totally different than what gets under your skin, Mindy, and what gets under the other skin? And like, really, our kids are not looking like they're just doing their thing. It's our, you know, conditioning, and it's our limited beliefs, and it's our baggage that gets pinged. And then we're like, oh, how could you do this to me? And our kids are just like, What are you talking about? Rowan would say, do not make this about you. And that used to drive me crazy, because that's like, I'm a part of this too,

Mindy Duff 12:30
yes, and that's really hard to take that step back and go, Wait a minute. What am I triggered by? Why is this bothering me so much, and how can I set that aside, deal with that later, and then address the issue that my child needs. Yeah, hard, but possible, right? Totally,

Casey O'Roarty 12:46
yeah, totally. It's a practice, and it's a commitment. It's being willing to move out of that ego mind and into what we want most, which is we want to we know our kids want to be seen and heard. So we have to, like, get out of the way, like our egos in the way, and we're not seeing and hearing them because we're all caught up in our junk. We can push that aside and really see them. And you know, like you see the memes all the time, right? Misbehavior is a form of communication, and yet, when it's, you know, when it hurts our feelings, we forget. Wait a minute, this is about like they're letting me typically, when our feelings are hurt, what's happening for our kids is they're feeling hurt for one reason or another, and so that's where you get that's that's where you explore, not how dare you talk to me like that, like, okay, that conversation can happen later. But first of all, what's going on with your with your teen, and how can you open the space in a way that they feel safe enough to step in and let you, let you know? So I love I love this. I love talking about this stuff, and I love working with parents around this, because I know that parents of teens are really struggling right now with pandemic and

Mindy Duff 14:03
so much. I mean, I think, and I know every generation has their own battles with this, but I know just technology and social media that wasn't a thing when I was growing up. So God, Yeah, no kidding, I

Casey O'Roarty 14:19
don't want to been a disaster. I am a just, I mean, I'm already, like a teenager with my phone. My kids are like, Let's compare. Let's compare screen time. Mom, I

Mindy Duff 14:31
have heard that as well, like we have to turn off the TV. Are you putting your phone down? Okay? But just navigating that whole world, it's, it's brand new to everyone. So how do you, how do you keep them safe online? How do you make sure they're not getting too much but then bullying and making sure you're not posting things that are going to prevent you from getting a job 10 years down the road, all of that. I mean, it's such a different world. Yeah, on top of all the other hormones and everything. Else, yeah, well, and like,

Casey O'Roarty 15:02
I mean, the politics and climate change, I mean, like, it's so there's so much uncertainty that is no longer there. Our generation, you know, and like our parents, they were able to just man, like it wasn't, I don't remember it permeating the conversation, plus, considering my family's leanings, it wouldn't have but, like, it's everywhere now it's so in their face. I mean, a lot of times the kids come to me with information that I haven't heard yet, that they've seen, you know, and then we get to talk about, like, oh, well, who posted that, and where did? What's the source? And because, you know, that's a great learning opportunity too. But there's, yeah, there's a lot, and I think that, you know, not to get too woo, woo. You know, you had said, how great for Rowan to have had me as her mom. I feel like we, we chose into this pre birth canal for both of us, you know. And I feel like this generation of kids too, once they kind of are able to move through the like the stickiness of being 15, 1617, and can kind of come to the surface. I mean, I feel like they came to save us for from ourselves. I trust that. Yeah, we just have to, like, nurture them and take care of them and offer the space for them so that they can get to that place of, like, okay, nobody else is going to do it. So I guess it's up to us, you know? Yeah,

Mindy Duff 16:35
I love that offering space. Yeah, that's so important. When you look at their their day, their typical days, where they're at school most of the time, and how school is set up. And I'm not criticizing how school is it is what it is, but there's a lot of you know, there's not a lot of room to spread your wings and test things out. It's you do it this way, or you're wrong kind of thinking, yeah. So yeah, that's a hence for some of these kids that some kids need more expression more than others, and to have that all modeled up all day long. And yeah, you get home and then explode, because home is hopefully safe. So yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 17:14
well, and I think they all need more space for expression. I think some of them are easier going, like I, I think about, I consider myself as a teenager, and I lived in a pretty controlled, privileged bubble, and I got into mischief, for sure, and I was sneaky, and I did the things, but I was also really easy going. Like, never were there, like, if you I'm not gonna do what you say. Like, I think it never even occurred to me that that was an option, right? It was just like, Okay, I'll go to the thing like, I don't want to, but okay, you know. Versus my daughter, who is like, No, I'm not doing that, you know. And it was just and I am like, oh, okay, you know. But then my self expression came out as I went away to college, and didn't have that protective bubble, and kind of, you know, went off the rails for a while there. And it's fascinating. All of it is just really interesting, how things play out. And I don't think there's a good or a bad and the school systems, it's interesting. I think with the pandemic and the kids not being at our our district right now is the kids are going, like, two days a week, my son is home. We have, we have some immune compromised situation at our house, so he's home, but it's like the online learning. It's stripped away all the greatness. For some kids, you know, other kids are like, Oh, I'm living my best life in my bedroom. But for a lot of kids, all of that taken away, and all they're left with is the learning. And we get to be hyper aware of, how are we holding learning? How are we teaching? And the kids I have so many clients whose kids are like, I'm done with this. This is BS. I don't need this, and I do think it's time to reimagine public education. And Dan Siegel, dr, Dan Siegel, he wrote a book called brainstorm power and purpose of the teenage brain, and I'm rereading it right now. And my membership, we're doing a book club around it. And when I saw him speak about it, he said, you know, really what we should do during middle he was focusing on Middle School. He said, We should throw out all the middle school curriculum and give the kids a world problem to solve, and just say, Go, because it's in the years that they are. Their creative exploration is through the roof. They're pushing back on status quo. They're thinking outside of the box. You know, they're the social engagement is high, which can be terrifying when it's a group of teenagers like impulsively deciding to do stupid things, but it's also their peers who are going to come up into the world and change the world together. And so bringing those minds together is so powerful. And you know, I don't know how we can convince. It's the country that that's a good thing to do. But, yeah, wow. Down with Dan Siegel, fascinating

Mindy Duff 20:05
concept that, you know, for a long time I used to be a teacher as well, and for a long time I always said, Man, there needs to be another type of school that the way our school systems are set up now, are really great for some kids, and teachers do a marvelous job. Yes, what they have to work with. It's not the teachers suggesting that at all, but there are some kids that are very hands on learners that just, you know, don't make them sit down ever and give them things to do and learn that way. Yeah? But yeah, that's an interesting idea with the middle schoolers. I've never considered that before. Yeah,

why not?

Casey O'Roarty 20:43
Why not? Why? I mean, it would take some some ingenuity. Is, I mean, because it's all like, it's, I mean, just watching my daughter right now in esthetician school, she loves it, like, gets up in the morning, makes her breakfast, does a little meditation, like, goes to bed early. She's 18. She should be no she would be a senior in high school, but she's taken this different route, and she is, like, so excited about what she's learning. She shows up every day. She loves the other people in her class who are a variety of ages between she's the youngest at 18. And I think the oldest person in the class is, like, early 30s, maybe late 20s. And being in an environment with like, mixed ages, like that, it's just plus, considering what we've been through. It's like, thank God. But you know, highlighting the trades, like bringing trades back with like, serious value and not just like, well, I guess you could go to trade school instead of college, but really like embracing it and celebrating it, I think be so useful for kids,

Mindy Duff 21:50
yes, and when they're when they're exploring things that they are interested in and enjoy, then that's just lights them up in a whole different way. And then you see different behaviors at home too.

Casey O'Roarty 22:03
And I get spa treatments every week to go in and let her practice on me, which I did not realize would be a bonus.

Mindy Duff 22:16
Get working on the wrinkles. Well, Casey, one of the focus points in our book the motherhood diaries is around this concept of self love. And I'm just curious how you define self love, and how does this show up with the clients that you work with? How important is it for parents?

Casey O'Roarty 22:34
Yeah, well, there's so much like guilt and and there's so much guilt, especially by the time you get to the teen years, because there's a story that can sound like I must have done something wrong. I must have been doing it all wrong. I'm doing it all wrong. It's my fault, right? Like we put so much blame on ourselves, we take so much credit, and it's not useful. It doesn't make us available to our kids. It doesn't allow us to hear what they need and to see who they are. And so when I think about self love, I really think about being open to that possibility, that there's more to learn and more to grow inside of ourselves, right? So self love is that compassionate exploration, being willing to wait around in our own kind of dark stuff that maybe we were like, I'm really good at putting that away and saying, You know what? It's actually a loving act to take care of that. Yes, right. It's a loving act to take care of that. And so when I work with clients, part of what we do together is we talk about what self care looks like, and like deep and meaningful self care, like running on the elliptical for 30 minutes while you watch Keeping Up With The Kardashians, which is what I have to do if I'm running because I'm like, Please distract me. The fact that I'm running right now is not, it's not the kind of like Soul filling self care that I'm talking about. And so I start with all my clients. We start with a grounding, five or 10 minute grounding meditation. So I've incorporated that into what we do all the group calls that I do my membership, we do this, and I just kind of really try to normalize that quieting of the mind and body. And to me, it's like we can only hear our true selves if we can quiet all the chatter, and like brain chatter, but also body chatter and really come to a place of stillness. And I think that's where that is an act of self love. Yeah, you know,

Mindy Duff 24:48
I love that I love that I love when you talk about, you know, actually, in my chapter in the motherhood diaries, I touched on my own personal experience, my kids are a little younger. My oldest is very nearly 12. But. Taking on their quote, unquote failures as my responsibility, even if it was academics, if it was how they performed on the ball field. You know, we look at our kids as this projection of ourselves, and that's not accurate. You know, they are their own little beings. And you're right. The more you can deal with your own stuff and sit with it and wait in that for a while, like you say, the more you can see your kids for who they are and not how it reflects to you, and then you can parent them that much more more effectively. Yeah, that speaks to me a lot

Casey O'Roarty 25:34
good. Yeah. Well, and it's funny too, how quick we are to take credit, you know, like we would never say, I mean, I think it's definitely easier to feel proud when they're doing the great things. But then, you know, and that, I mean, especially in the teen years, because hyper rash, I was just reading about, this impulsivity coupled with hyper rationality show up in brain development during the teen years. It has nothing to do with you. It doesn't have to do with the rules that you've laid down. It doesn't have to do with the values that you've tried to instill. It is brain development. The kids, they hit a certain age, and they're looking for the thrill of novelty and that dopamine hit and you know, it's not about you. Yeah. So let that guilt go, people, let it go. Be be available. Yeah. Listener,

Mindy Duff 26:38
so let me ask you this. Then, what do you think are the most important things that moms in particular need to remember in regards to parenting kids of this age, the tweens and the teen. I know that's kind of its own. You can do a talk just on that question. I'm guessing well, and

Casey O'Roarty 26:55
I think that the most important thing to remember is that relationship is everything, like relationship is everything. So when you are in that moment where your teen or tween has done something really unbelievable, and you're thinking to yourself, because this is what we do, what do I gotta do to this kid to make sure that this doesn't happen again, I want you to catch yourself, because what that kid needs the most is to know that you've got their back and so relationship comes before working out consequences. Relationship is everything, no matter what your kids are getting into them, knowing that they've got a healthy adult who sees them and is holding space for them and their mischief and their wildness is what's going to help them move through this time much, much more powerful than thinking that if we have the right consequences and the right rewards, somehow They won't make any mistakes that is short sighted. So that's really what I hold as sacred in the work that I do with parents. Is relationship, relationship, relationship, relationship.

Mindy Duff 28:12
That is a huge reminder, because in my 12 short years of parenting, I have found that there I have one child that I have never found the most effective consequence. We'll put it that way. It's not like there's ever some consequence where he went, oh golly.

Casey O'Roarty 28:28
Thanks mom, that again. Yeah,

Mindy Duff 28:30
thanks for that consequence. This is gonna work out perfectly. That doesn't work like that. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 28:35
it's because they get into mischief because they're lacking skills. So it doesn't mean that they're going to be in the moment and think, Ooh, did I do this? Because last time I got in trouble? No, they don't have the tools to self regulate, enough to reflect like that, yeah, where they become teenagers and that hyper rationality shows up, and they're like, should I? Shouldn't I? I probably won't get caught. I'll do it, yeah?

Mindy Duff 28:59
And that's our fault lines. When we look at that, we're going, how, what are you What were you thinking? How, yeah, you know, and to them like, that's not like, yeah, they're

Casey O'Roarty 29:09
like, I have no answer for that. I wasn't thinking. Didn't

Mindy Duff 29:12
know to think about, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 29:14
yeah, yeah, yeah. Fascinating.

Mindy Duff 29:19
Um, well, I have a couple other questions here, actually, that I've thought of. So this is even from my own personal use. How do people work with you? What kinds of Do you have group coaching programs? Do you have visual

Casey O'Roarty 29:31
so what I have is I work one on one with clients. So I do have just a handful. I don't have a huge coaching practice. I like to keep it pretty minimal, but people sign up for three months and they get two hours a month of coaching with me, which is awesome, and then full permission for like SOS texts and emails between the time I do quarterly run a five week parenting class. For parents of tweens and teens, and that'll be in June. Is my next course, and it's called parenting for the season you're in, heavily based in positive discipline and but it's only for parents of tweens and teens. I've totally graduated from the littles. I send the littles somewhere else, and then I also have a membership program that's just for moms and and just for moms of tweens and teens. And the membership program, we do two two hour group calls a month, every month, and then some months like this month, we're also doing a book club, and it's such a fun place for me because it's where I get to experiment with all my things. So I have a big free workshop happening later this month about minimizing risky behavior during the teen years, and like, Thursday night, I I'm gonna run it in my membership and let and get feedback and kind of play with it. So once a quarter, I'll be I do that in the membership, and I, once a quarter, I also do a big free workshop, just for the for anyone. Oh, and I have a podcast. I have a weekly podcast that's free, and in all the podcast places, it's called joyful courage. And I alternate between interviews with people that are inspiring to me and solo shows of me just sharing what I think.

Mindy Duff 31:18
Well, I can already tell, just based on this interview, you are a wealth of knowledge. And I know looking over your website, I mean, it's just this a very interesting concept to have a coach for being a parent. And of course, we would. We have coaches that help us get into physical shape. There are relationship coaches that help us with you know, maybe your partner parenting is another, just huge piece of the pie in our lives. And, man, don't we all want to who doesn't want to be a good parent?

Casey O'Roarty 31:48
For sure? Yeah, for sure. And just like we're throwing down money for those select sports and those, you know, Air Jordans, or maybe it's just me and my huge, tall basketball playing son. You know, it's it's a great investment. It's a great investment because it's powerful to shift out of resistance. Because I think especially during this time, there's so much resistance to what is happening around us and to the changes that our kids are going through and the opinions that they're trying on, and to shift to a more open, delighted place. It makes it so much more fun to be our adolescents. So that's really, that's always my agenda is like, How can I help this person just shift so that they can enjoy this versus resist it? Yes, and then that influences the kids behavior too. When we're not always like, why are you doing that? Like, then it's not about like, my mom, you know, it's like, why am I? What am what is going on? Oh, they don't seem to be reacting very much. Like, I wonder if you know. So,

Mindy Duff 32:55
yeah, and there is such a stigma around that that age. I mean, you use, yeah, the phrase fun in adolescence. And I don't think that's a phrase that gets thrown around very it's not we just kind of mentally think, okay, if I can just get through the next couple years, I can just get through the next few years. And it doesn't have to be like that.

Casey O'Roarty 33:12
No, it doesn't. And that's because that's coming from someone who, you know, it's not like, Oh, I did all the right things. And so we haven't had any problems like this. Remember, this is coming from someone. Next kid opted out of high school, you know, we dealt with a lot of the things, people, you know, and, and I'm still here saying, like, you know, I don't think I would change much. Like, what's what's grown inside of that has been so powerful. So

Mindy Duff 33:41
that's awesome. Well, I have just been delighted to talk with you here today, and I'm extra delighted that you have added to our grand prize package. So for those of you that are watching, we have a grand prize on Mother's Day. We'll hold the drawing. Tons of amazing prizes, but Casey has shared her journey to joy video series, which i i wish i could win it. I'm not eligible, darn it, but there will be a grand prize post. Well, there'll be several, but there'll be one coming out later this week, so keep your eyes posted for that and Casey. How can people find you?

Casey O'Roarty 34:18
The best way to find me is to go to my website, joyful courage.com and you can all the other links are there. I'm I'm joyful underscore courage on Instagram and joyful courage on Facebook, and those are the places that I hang out. Cool, awesome.

Mindy Duff 34:35
Thank you. Thank you so much for being here with us today. We'll put some of those links in the comments to your website and such, and I'm sure if anybody has any birding questions, they can get a hold of you that way. And yeah, for sure. Yeah. Thanks again for

Casey O'Roarty 34:53
chatting with me. Yeah. Thanks for having me. This was super fun. You. Family. Okay, thanks again for listening, my friends. If you feel inspired and you haven't already, do me a favor and head over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. We are working really hard to stand out and make a massive impact on families around the globe. Your reviews help the joyful courage podcast to be seen by even more parents. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Also follow me over at joyful underscore courage on Instagram and Facebook. We love connecting with you on social media. Don't forget, sign up for the minimizing risky behavior workshop that's happening may 20 at www, dot joyful courage.com/risky, big love my friends. Have a beautiful week.

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