Eps 288: Understanding Screens and Setting Limits with Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov

Subscribe to the Podcast

Transcription

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 0:00
When we're talking about these types of truly addictive behaviors, it's like 1212, months of this stuff, of you know, not eating, not talking, not sleeping, really hardcore things. So this is not the case of the majority of parents. Just because your teen does not get off his or her phone when you call them to dinner does not mean they're addicted.

Casey O'Roarty 0:24
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human in the wild terrain of the teen years. I am your host. Casey overti Positive Discipline, lead, trainer, parent, coach and mom walking the path right next to you as I imperfectly raise my own two teens. Joyful courage is all about grit, you guys. Growth, growth, growth, growth on the parenting journey, relationships, centering, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and practicing influential tools that support everyone and being their best selves. You see what I did there, right? Grt, growth, relationship tools, grit. As you listen to today's show, pay attention to how grit shows up in the conversation. And if you're not already on my email list, I'm going to remind you again, join in. I love popping into my subscribers inbox with stories, podcast, news and offers every week. My hope is to make you laugh or at least feel relatable and keep you updated on all the things I'm creating for you. If you're into it, go to joyful courage.com/email, and sign up. And signing up now will get you the seven tips for connecting with your teen over the course of seven days. I'm going to send you one tip a day and break them down, and I promise you, if you put these tips into practice, they will make a difference in your relationship with your kids, so check it out. Joyful courage.com/email. Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the show.

Today, I am revisiting my conversation with Dr Elizabeth milovidov from the teens and screens mini summit that went live in the fall of 2020 Dr milovadov is an internationally known digital parenting coach, author, lawyer and law professor. She is the founder of Digi parentingcoach.com and provides information and support to caregivers, parents and anyone who is looking for the best practices when it comes to social media, internet laws and the internet at large. Elizabeth's publications include the parents guide to parenting in the digital age. The parents guide to YouTube and YouTube kids and the parents guide to digital detox and disconnect. This interview, everyone is regularly referenced by the joyful courage community as being super supportive in finding some chill when it comes to teens and screens. I love Elizabeth. She is pragmatic, she is flexible, and she is all for creating limits for our kids when it comes to screen time, her passion for navigating the digital world stems from her two young tech savvy children. I am super excited to share our conversation again with you all this week on the podcast. Enjoy the show. Thank you so much for being a part of the summit. Elizabeth, yay.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 3:47
It's absolutely a pleasure. I mean, this is, like my favorite, favorite topic, and this is what I do, so I love it. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 3:53
can you tell me? Tell us a little bit more about where your passion you mentioned. You know, you have two young kids, but how did you find yourself really focusing in on the tech world and digital stuff for kids, right?

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 4:07
So it's, you know, it's just kind of one of those journey stories where you start off doing one thing and then you end up doing another, right? So I'm originally from San Diego, and I was a lawyer in San Francisco for a few years, and I always wanted to live in France. I didn't speak French. I didn't know anything about French law, but I just, you know, said, I'm moving to France. So I came here. I'm one of those people. So I came here, and I was studying, and then I, you know, started working. I found a job. I was very fortunate, and I ended up working in tech companies. So before there was, like, Skype, there was video conferencing and things like this. And I ended up working for them, doing internet and technology law. And I absolutely loved it. I just thought, you know, technology, internet, it just, you know, thrilling stuff. I mean, I'm a complete Trekkie and Star Wars. And. Looking at space and tech. I love it. And just, you know, to give a little nod out to all those Trekkies, the first iPad really did come from Star Trek, right? So it's a real thing, real thing. So, you know, I just love this stuff. And after moving back up to Paris and starting my family, I realized that, you know, there was this, actually, I skipped a little part here. I also did a PhD in children's rights, and so it was about that point when I had my my children, that I realized that there was something missing, right? So when we're talking about technology, and we're talking about all the fabulous things that that are happening in the digital age, we don't always think about children's rights. That's not the first thing, you know, when they're creating something fabulous in Silicon Valley, the first thing they're thinking, it's not always, oh, how are children going to use this? And so I really got interested about then. And, you know, because I have my own children, so my boys are 10 and 13, so that means I am knee deep into all of the fun stuff, the crazy stuff. And, you know, I started my own consulting practice, gosh, 12 years ago, and it was digital parenting consulting. And what I realized is I was doing work with the Council of Europe, or with Google and Facebook and different organizations, is that, you know, there would be a bunch of us sitting in the room. We would have government people, we would have academics and researchers, and sometimes we would even have children themselves to hear their viewpoints, which was absolutely brilliant, but we didn't always have the parents. And so I was sitting there thinking, Wait a minute, you know parents, they're the, you know, first line of defense, the first line of offense. We need parents to really get empowered around all of this and and from then on, I've just been going out gangbusters, uh, doing everything that I can to make sure that parents understand what's happening and how they can, you know, better, guide their children. So I love what I do. Absolutely love it. So I hope I won't like keep talking all night.

But I do love this topic, so you just tell me what to stop. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 7:03
you are good, and I'm so glad that you do what you do, because, and I've said this to my kids, you know, straight up, I've just said I am sorry the adults have really screwed you over, because here's these little phones, and I feel like we've been blindsided by just the level of, just the access, I mean, it just it feel, I mean, and I know I'm not alone, because I work with parents. I run parent communities, and it's the same conversation we're all having, the same conversation, which is like, Oh my god. It feels so like I know I should do something. It is, like, the hardest thing, it's this struggle. And anyway, we're gonna get into that, we're gonna get into all of that. And I'm so excited, and there's a lot listeners, I just want to acknowledge that there are so many different topics that could be covered in one conversation. And so remember that this summit is five different conversations. So if you don't hear what you're hoping to hear between Elizabeth and I know that it'll probably come up in another interview today. I really want to focus on teens and their attachment to those little phones, right? You?

It feels so big. And like I said, there isn't a parent of a teen on the planet who's not like, completely living off the grid that doesn't struggle with setting limits and moderate monitoring and knowing like I feel like we're like, in this question of I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. So what are you hearing from the parents that you work with, just around kids and their phones and like, you know, just trying to pry it out of those hands,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 8:54
not so little hands. So I think just going back a second, you had mentioned something really interesting. You were just talking about how we've, you know, put these smartphones in their hands, right? And what we're doing. And I 100% agree with you that this is basically like a huge social experiment. We have no idea of the outcomes. We really, really don't and and we're learning as, you know, as the industry is learning, and that's kind of the beauty of it, and also the shame of it. So I think it's really, it's it's difficult, and it's a difficult, a difficult question. So the parents that I'm working with, again, I'm here in Paris, and so I do a lot of work around Europe, and I do do some things the United States, mostly for the family Online Safety Institute FOSI. But the in general, it's the same. It is really the same. I was in so shells and Mauritius last year, before the pandemic, parents were saying the exact same thing. I was in Thailand in February for a project for UNICEF, for. The exact same thing, meaning they don't know what to do. They understand that, you know, there's this, this is a complex relationship, right? We our teens, they they use their phones in classrooms. They use their phones to socialize. They use their phones, you know, for social media, for gaming, for technology. And there's just it's just so complex. There's so much pressure, and parents are not always sure of what to do and how to handle this. And so I think the fact that technology has become so convenient, we're not just talking about a computer in a child's room where they can have access to the world. It's the fact that they are walking around with a little computer on them in their pockets. That's the that's the struggle. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 10:44
yeah. And, you know, when I asked my community, as I was making writing this interview, I always, whenever I'm doing this, I asked the community, okay, where, what are your burning questions? And really, a lot, I mean, there was a lot of stuff that came up, but what came up over and over again is the question of limit setting, how to support our kids and being healthy with these things, right? Because there's this idea of they're not going anywhere, right? So what is the current recommendation? So you've got your hand, you're in there with the people recommendation for how much teens should be on their phones.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 11:22
You're gonna scream when I tell you that, but,

Casey O'Roarty 11:24
yeah, don't tell me, like, two hours or I'm really gonna have a hard time. No,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 11:30
I'm gonna tell you the exact opposite, and that is, there can't possibly be any recommendation, and the reason why? Okay, yeah, yeah. I know all the parents are going, what the reason why is because you're not asking the right question. It's not it's not the screen time, it's not the screen limit, it's what are they doing on those darn little telephones? Okay, so, for example, my 13 year old, if he is sitting there studying Latin verbs, am I going to be screaming that he's on the phone for eight hours, but if he's sitting there playing, you know, I don't know Call of Duty, I'm gonna say, Wait a minute. First of all, you're 13, you're not supposed to be playing that. Do you see what I mean? So, or if they're just sitting there watching, you know, YouTube influencers forever, there is a huge difference with what they are doing on their phones. And that is already the first question that parents should be talking about again, and when we talk about, okay, current recommendation, how much time should they be spending on their phone? I will just give you my cut and dried rule in 2017 I was working with I went to the London School of Economics, and it was EU kids online that they did this research project on families and screen time use. We all sat around in this room, Casey. It was me and Disney and BBC, and, you know, a whole bunch of other people, NGOs, child protection experts, trying to figure out what we could possibly tell parents. And the reason why it was so pressing was because we were in the UK, the United Kingdom, and the American Pediatric Association had just come around saying, Whoa. We messed up on the recommendations before we said no screen time for zero to two year olds. And we had all of these, you know, rules, and now we realize we have to adjust them, because sometimes kids are doing, you know, FaceTime with grandma and grandpa. And they're different things. So they came back and they made something more flexible. So in the United Kingdom, the government wanted to get ahead of it and really try to figure out something. So they asked us, what, what you know, what could we suggest to parents? And so here it is, if your teenager is doing well in school, sleeping well at night, eating well is able to interact with their devices in a healthy manner, then there's not a problem. Calm down. Just, just calm down. You know, take a deep breath. It is okay when we start seeing problems with with phone use and even online use, and even when we start getting into things, you know, they're more problematic use, I will not say addiction, because it's something that addiction is a word that gets bandied around so easily, and it's really a medical condition. When we're talking about these types of truly addictive behaviors, it's like 1212, months of this stuff, of, you know, not eating, not talking, not sleeping, really hardcore things. So this is not the case of the majority of parents. Just because your teen does not get off his or her phone when you call them to dinner does not mean they're addicted.

Casey O'Roarty 14:33
That is really useful. Thank you for that. And I noticed, too for me is I start to get prickly about seeing my kids glued to their phones when I am in my own cycle of overuse of my phone, right? So it's like I know And full disclosure everyone I checked. Last night, as I was writing out this interview, I checked on my handy little iPhone the screen time for myself and for my kids for the last week, and I'm gonna come totally clean. So for me, I had three hours and 46 minutes average for the last week, which friends is low for me. Okay, I'm just gonna say that my 14 year old, my nearly 15 year old, his was five hours and four minutes, which was up 22% from last week. So usually he's a little lower than that. And then my daughter, who's 17, her number was four hours and 27 minutes, which also was up 43% from last week. Granted, we spent the entire day at the dentist yesterday, so that could have skewed their situation, but this is just their phones, right? I mean, it doesn't include watching stuff on my daughter has a laptop. I know she watches a lot of Grey's Anatomy. We watch TV as a family in the evening. Sometimes my son, you know, he'll dive into Minecraft or the other one fortnight. Sometimes, not, not a lot, but I'm in it too. You know, I love the screen time app on my phone, and I'm grateful that my I'm not in a situation with my kids where it's like, I'm gonna control this, and they're on the other side saying, I'm gonna figure out how to counteract this. You know, it's really just a conversation that we like, even today, before this interview, I was like, so I looked up all of our times, and I gotta say, I'm in the lead, which is not normal, and Rowan, you know, Rowan and I are neck and neck, and we kind of all laugh about it, but it feels good to be able to have conversations that aren't just you're on your phone too much exactly

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 16:46
and already Casey. You just hit the nail on the head with conversation. The fact that you are talking with your kids and joking about the screen time is just phenomenal. I mean, this is just huge. I mean, this is like, the best thing that you can do, and you know, just to let them know that you know you're aware, I'm really happy that they let you have access to their phones, right, that they're all I'm sure you're all on screen. Time together. Is that it family screen?

Casey O'Roarty 17:12
I Yes, I was not. I mean, when we'll talk about this, I have one, I have one that's way more willing and like, Ah, whatever. The other one is, like, do not touch my phone, you know. So,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 17:25
right? That's why I said I'm just do I'm really, really impressed, because that is a hard thing. And let me explain to the to your parent listeners who are probably wondering what we're talking about, is just the fact that, you know, a lot of parents ask about parental control software and different things that they can do. And I always say, Listen, you know, just go simple. First of all, you already have things on your phone. So if you have iPhone, then with iOS, you have screen time, then you can use family screen time as you have and I have, if you're on Android, you can use Google's digital well being. And there are ways that people can, you know, see how much their screen time what they're using, if they're using if they're looking at YouTube versus looking at news sites, they can see it all, and that really helps. And parents can also, you know, as you've seen, can set limits on certain apps and say, okay, you know, no more of that Minecraft app, etc. So I think the tech

Casey O'Roarty 18:15
drive is a gigantic black hole.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 18:19
Yep, I'm sure it is. You said your daughter was, what, 17, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's, that's the time. But so I think that, I mean, it's important. And what you've just said, you just, you know, I'm just smiling ear to ear, because I just think that that is brilliant, because that is the best way that parents can really guide their children and by helping them now get that being said, you've given me the time, right? You've told me how much time you don't know what they were doing. Can you imagine if Rowan was sitting there spending those four hours, you know, looking up a fabulous gift for you online?

Casey O'Roarty 18:53
I'm sure that's what she was doing, for sure. I'm sure that's you don't, but it does. It does, you know, just for parents that don't know about screen time on the iOS app that does show, like, how much is social networking, how much is entertainment, how much is creativity and and I can get, and I don't know how accurate you maybe you can speak into that. But, like, I see she spent five hours and three minutes on Snapchat in a week, you know? And, yeah, um, and, you know, there's also, like, some gray, which, I don't know what that means. It's like unknown. I think it's like FaceTime and phone calls and things like that, right? But exactly, yeah, you're right. I don't know exactly what they're doing, and sometimes YouTube is tutorials on things, and exactly,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 19:49
that's what I was going to mention. Same thing with Snapchat and Tiktok. There are fantastic magicians on Tiktok, you know? And actually, even now, a lot of doctors and therapists are on Tiktok. But, you know, that's a whole other thing. But it's just the whole point is that we don't know what they're doing.

Casey O'Roarty 20:04
I found an article, a pretty recent article from the New York Times, and they interviewed a bunch of teenagers about how they feel about their own cell phone use. And it was so fascinating to read about, you know, kids were pretty candid about, you know, I know I'm on my phone too long. It was the whole range. It was kids that were like, I spent 40 minutes on my phone. I'm like, Who are you? Are you a real teenager? But then there were kids that were like, Yeah, I have a problem. You know, I'm on my phone, you know, 1012, hours a day, and they were candid about it, and a lot of them also point out how everyone has bad habits, that this is not a teenage problem. This is a human problem. And when I was reading about all these kids in their response, I was thinking about my clients and myself, where I often feel like nobody else is doing the hard work of setting limits. Yeah, right. And so our kids are then like, Oh my God, you're the only one that makes me do this, you know? And and that is one discouraging for the parents. So any parent listening it, if you aren't just throwing your hands in the air and doing nothing, stop it. It's making it harder for the rest of us. But also, how can we, like, what are you seeing around this with kids and parents and limit setting? Yeah,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 21:29
it really is that that children are teenagers are kind of wondering what's going on. You know, as far as no one else is setting limits, or, you know, I'm watching my parents, you know, they tell me one thing yet they do another. But as far as you know, parents may feel like no one else is setting limits, but I guarantee you that if you start asking other parents, they will tell you, Oh, yeah, we we've set limits, etc. They might be having some trouble imposing those limits, but a lot of parents are really trying to do the right thing. So, for example, something that I've seen a lot is with social media, right? So, and this is with your the younger kids, who are like, 12 years old, where they say, everybody has Tiktok, mom, everybody has Snapchat. I just have to have it. And yet, when you go into the school or you speak with other moms, it's like, no, that's not true. There's maybe three, three young girls that have Snapchat in the classroom. So I think it's also this thing where we feel like everyone else is doing something and everyone else and that's that's not the case. So I do think that that parents really need to focus on their own families and their own expectations, but at the same time, remember that it is a community in, I think it was in the east coast in the United States, where they had a fabulous program that was called wait until eighth and I thought that was brilliant, because it was, you know, a family's getting together and deciding to wait until eighth grade before giving children a smartphone. And you know, this way it was, everyone's in the same boat, so there's no jealousy. There's no, you know, being teased about not having a phone or having a Barney Rubble phone like my children. It's things like that. So families need to really sit there and decide their own expectations and their own values for their family, and then talk with other people, other parents in their community to see where they can align. What

Casey O'Roarty 23:22
do you think is are some of the big mistakes that parents are making with teens and their phones?

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 23:28
For me, I think that the biggest mistake is that parents are not guiding their children on how to use their phones, how to balance, how to have any sort of balance with technology in general. You know, parents are giving kids phones and off they go. You know, there are a few that will, you know, write cell phone contracts or family media agreements and and really try to have their children stay with, you know, some of their guidelines. But for the most part, they're giving them their phone and then they have no idea what's what's happening with it. And you know, our teenagers, I know that they want to act like big people, but they're not. They're really not, and they still need our guidance. And you know, they don't always know what to do. And just because they seem very tech savvy and they're able to finger swipe with the best of them does not mean that they will understand if somebody is trying to speak to them, then they're pretending to be another 16 year old. They're not that savvy. So yeah, for me, I think that's pretty that's the biggest mistake. Yes,

Casey O'Roarty 24:30
yeah, and it's in. I'm going to ask you about this in a little bit, but that retroactive work is really hard. So anybody that's listening with like 1213, like younger teens, do your work now, and everybody else, I'll get to you in a moment. I

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 24:47
100% agree. I was talking to a few parents, and they were saying, you know, what's the most frustrating thing about what you do? And I said, Well, you know, I feel like I'm a dentist. Actually, I'm running around. You know? Talking to these young kids, trying to get them to brush brush and to floss and to do all these great, you know, good habits. And you know, it doesn't happen. And then all of a sudden, you know, the parents are calling me up when there's a cavity, and saying, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And it's like, oh, man, he had just listened, you know, when I was talking to you about cyberbullying or sexting, or, you know, all of these different issues that could possibly happen if you were just listening. You know, this could have been avoided. And so this kind of preventative awareness, it's tough. So I agree with you, for all the parents of children, you know, 13 and under, jump in there. It's you can do it. You can really do it. And for the parents of teenagers, it's not too late. I know that they're not telling you everything, but it's not too late to get in there and guide them.

Casey O'Roarty 25:50
So we're going to talk more about monitoring software in a different interview and just kind of online safety, but I would love your take just simply on checking our child's phones, reading texts, checking social media. You know, there's a group of parents that where it feels really conflicting because of privacy issues. And I think back to like, you know, when we were kids and it was just dragging the phone into our room, you know, the last thing I wanted was my mom at the door with a glass like, listening to everything I said, versus the flip side of that, right, which is, you know, it's like, okay, I'm not going to check that, or the overkill, because I also know there's parents out there that are and I can slide, I can slide into this. Every once in a while has, it's been a long time, but if I'm looking too much, you know, I'm finding what I'm looking for, and it's just not useful. What do you recommend as far as that goes? Yeah, so that is such a, probably not a really

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 26:55
easy. It's, no, it's not, it's not easy. And, and I'm not going to, you know, deflect, but it's really, really not easy, because, of course, as an attorney, and I'm always thinking about children's rights, of course, they have a right of right to privacy, but I also believe that families, you know, parents, are the guardians. They are responsible for their child. And so that also means that parents are the digital guardians, and that they have to protect their children. So I think that there's a, you know, a fine line to walk. And I think that parents who are authoritative, right, who are, you know, loving and kind and setting those rules for their children, I think that that's a bit easier than the ones who are helicopter parenting, checking in those phones all the time, you know, trying to you know, look at every single thing, because inevitably, the children are going to lose trust. The children are going to not do anything on their own phone at all, but they will do it on someone else's phone. Or they will get very sneaky, and they'll learn how to make a fenced account, which is a fake Instagram account. Or they'll be able to use, you know, secret vaults, like the calculator app to hide things, and, you know, you just don't really want to go there. But going back to your analogy with, you know, with us being children, and your mom at the door, you know, it's kind of like the same thing about having a diary, right? You didn't want your mom looking in your diary, but you also weren't going to write down really, really something crazy, just in case she could look in your diary. Yeah, I pretty

Casey O'Roarty 28:24
much wrote down everything.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 28:27
I didn't because I had a younger brother, I had a younger brother, and I was like, No way. So I just think that, you know, that's another thing when I was talking about with parents guiding their children, because it's not even so much about them, you know, wanting to have a private conversation on their phone, etc, but it's for parents to make their teenagers understand that anytime they are online, it is never private. So while they're sitting there thinking that they're having a one on one conversation with someone, or that they're doing, you know, a chat message with someone, and it's just them, and that way they can share that little sexy photo, or they can, you know, make those flirty comments. It's not private. And I think that that is how parents can really help to ensure that you know their children all you know, protect their privacy to a certain extent. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 29:12
and I, as I listen to you, what's coming to mind too, is if your way of finding out what's going on for your kids is by digging into their phone, then you have a bigger problem.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 29:26
Yes, yeah. And the for me, the bigger problem bigger Well, obviously they're not you're not communicating. But the even, exactly, even, even bigger problem is that if they ever found out that trust is gone and they will not come to you, and that's the last thing that you want, because this is the biggest problem that we see in this whole online protection field, is that if children and teenagers were to go to their parents when they had a problem, I won't say, you know, nine times out of 10 it could be nipped in the bud, but pretty close parents, even though they're not tech savvy. Be they will know what to do. They will know that something needs to be done. Whereas a child, a teenager, might think, oh, let's not think about that. Or maybe they'll just go away in time, or perhaps I should just pay that person and then they'll stop bothering me.

Casey O'Roarty 30:14
Yeah, I notice in my experiences that kids have gotten older I do less checking of the phone, and it's always out in the open. It's never like, oh, mostly because I don't know their friggin passwords, which probably I need to. But whatever, it's harder for my, you know, to get my 17 year old to show me you know like her, because she does. You know both my kids. Well, not both of them, but Rowan does have the public Instagram and then a really small, like 40 follower, they call it the spam account, right? And I am not privy to the spam account, which, you know, on one hand, I get that, you know. And she, you know, it is a place where she expresses a little bit more vulnerably to her handpicked crowd that she's constantly, like, taking people out, putting people in. So she's a little bit more guarded, and then with my but she's also got one foot out the door. I mean, like, she's 17, that's

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 31:13
what I was gonna say. Casey, she's, yeah, she's almost 18, but, but already, the fact that, that you even know this, that that she has this smart group. I mean, please, you know. Okay, great, soft, yeah, this is fabulous. Yeah, this is fabulous. It doesn't get any better than this, because it sounds to me like if anything ever did come up, she would know that you were not going to try to ground her until she's 18, that you would be there to help you figure it out. Yeah, for

Casey O'Roarty 31:37
sure. And it's a gut check, right? And we have been through right? We've been through it with her and and and inside of all of our big challenges. And my listeners who have listened to me for a long time have heard me talk about this at nauseum. Probably, you know, the gut check for me is, is she talking to me? Are We Connected? So yes, there's things going on. Yes, I'm worried and looking for support, and yes, we have a really pretty rock solid relationship, and that's always my Okay, we're gonna be okay. The 14 year old, he's always been, you know, I teach positive discipline, and he's been my positive discipline kid. He's like, Yeah, Mom, let's make a routine chart, Yeah, Mom, let's role play that like he's the one that's way more easy going. And you know, it's really like to him, I'm like, Hey, let me check out. Let me look at your phone. And he's like, okay, here it is. I know for him it is useful to know that at any time, I will say, let me check it out. Let's see what you got going on. Who you talking to. I know that that is helpful for him, because he's a lot like me. And you know the mischief is, is, is interesting, right? The myth, super interesting. So knowing that he's going to have to have a conversation with me about any mischief making, which we've had plenty of conversations, um, he's like, I don't really want to have that conversation again with my mom, not because I don't want to get in trouble, but because, you know, it's just, it's a useful kind of, uh, bumper for him, right? But with Rowan, it feels a little bit more like when I really dig into, why do I want to see what's going on on her spam account. It's more about like, I'm just really curious. I just want to see. It's like, you know, if she had a diary on her bed, it would be so hard for me not to be like, you know, I'm gonna be totally honest. It's really hard.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 33:38
I agree. I agree. I think I'd want a little peek myself. It would be very difficult.

Casey O'Roarty 33:42
Yeah, and again, when I think back to myself as a teen, I didn't, you know, we didn't have smartphones, thank God. And I would have done all the things, I'm sad to say, all the things, not because I was bad, but like I said, I was curious, and if I could get access to naughty stuff, I was checking it out,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 34:02
yeah, but this is the whole point. Casey that parents need to remember is, you know what they did at that age as well, and that it's true that technology can provide limitless opportunity for mischief, but parents just have to realize it's just, you know, a different playground, right? You know, different tools, more TechEd up. You know, I've had parents say to me, Oh, my goodness, but what should I do? I caught my son looking at which,

Casey O'Roarty 34:28
by the way, welcome to The Club. Go on.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 34:32
But I'm like, I'm like, take the tech out. Take the tech out. What would you do if you found your son, you know, founds a bunch of hustler magazines underneath his bed. It is the Thank you. It's the same. It really is the same. I mean, of course, the difference is that, you know, technology is 24/7 they can get back online. They can see it again. We have such wonderful things as having a pandemic when porn companies just decide to make porn free. So that way people can, you know. Yeah, yeah. So we have all of these, these things that are going on, but I mean, it really is that that same sort of parenting, common sense, that that we, that we have,

Casey O'Roarty 35:18
and I what I really love when I think about this conversation, and back in the spring, listeners, I did a whole summit on sex ed for parents of teens, and we talked a lot about porn. So I won't go into it too much here, but one of the things I think is really important, like, wow, yes, we take the tech out, and yes, we would take the magazines, if that's what, how they were accessing it. But to think that that's enough, right? Then it becomes a battle between, you can take it away, but I can find it. You take it away, but I can find it. And so, and I know that you're going to agree with me on this. So really, it's, again, it's shifting the conversation. It's not about, I'm going to take this away. When you do that, it's about, let's talk about what you're doing, and let's talk about the impact that it has on you. And let's talk about the players inside of this world you know, and you know how women are treated, and the violence and the lack of vulnerability, and it's not real. And let's talk about the thing, versus thinking that we can just be like, Wow, give me your phone, and that's somehow solving a problem

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 36:20
exactly. I mean, this is really the crux of it. Here is that they are going to see something, and it's going to be, you know, it could be their curiosity. I mean, let's face it, I don't know how many of your parents have sat down and gone onto a search engine lately, but if you put what is sex on any search engine, Google, Bing, they will tell you, right? And they'll tell you in words on the first page. And then you can click to images, and you can see things, and then you can click to videos, and yes, you can watch things, yeah. And so it's, it's all there. And I think that that is what you know, parents need to remember, is that our children, they're curious. It's natural for them to be curious, but when they when they are, when they have been exposed to something, you know, it's just, as you said, parents, they can't just react impulsively. They can't just freak out, you know, we have to sit down and talk with our children about what's what they saw, about the images, you know, and to use the correct language, right? So that way they can, they can understand that this is not what real relationships are like, you know, because pornography is, you know, it's designed to to stimulate and so it's completely different. And I think that, you know, in the follow up questions have making sure that they know that they can come back and talk to you, because it probably won't be the last time. But for me, I think the biggest, one of my favorite resources, with with everything, was talking about this whole sexualized generation of what's happening now, whether it is young girls, you know, 789, posting the pictures of themselves on Instagram, and it's all very sexual is looking at a website. It's called culture reframed, and they are absolutely brilliant. They have Gail Dines has a TED talk, just a 13 minute TED Talk, talking about, you know, what can happen to young boys when they see porn. And let's face it, it's at 1011, years old, when they're seeing this stuff, and it's brilliant. And they also have free courses for parents. So really, I always feel like my role is to to curate and define the best content and resources for parents, and that is like the place to go to have some free resources to understand what is happening and to help parents raise porn resilient children, children who know what to do and what to say if someone's trying to show them pornography. Yeah? Sorry, sorry Casey.

Casey O'Roarty 38:52
Listen, I'm not new, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that you know at the at the end of the day, what you said, like, No, our kids knowing they can have conversations with us is so huge, right? Like, and that all has to do with the embodiment of being able to handle having really uncomfortable conversations. Yeah, right, because it's not so much like, but I'm available. I told them they could ask me questions. It's, what's your posture as you're having these conversations, like, how is your jaw set, you know, and are you willing to listen and hear them without Yes, from a non judgmental place, which when we're talking about our kids in porn, it's really hard. Of course, it is non judgmental. So practicing that is so huge. And, you know, teaching them, guiding them. So I'm hearing you using these words, and I love I'm gonna check out that website. Yeah, they'll be cultured on your speaker page, right? But you know, for me, I think about that internal guidance. System, yes, right? That that we want to cultivate in our children. So what are some tips that you have for parents around like, what is, what does it look like to guide them? Well,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 40:12
it's basically, I mean, it is so much of what you've said about, you know, to to listen to them, to ask those questions. And it's not just hearing them, it really is, you know, listening and, you know, not always putting up your point of view, but really trying to go down that whole Critical Thinking journey with them. And so, I mean, critical thinking is something that I stress so much with parents about, you know, to really ask all of those questions, who, what, where, when, why? How? But to not ask it in an investigative mode, but just in a, you know, be curious, be really, you know, out there and let them know that it's not that you don't trust them, it's that you, you know, you're just sitting there, you know, there's some, you know, some cray, cray out there, and you, you're just trying to make sure that they are armed in the best way possible to handle it on their own, and that is your job as a parent, right? Is to is to raise them to be resilient, to get out there and do what they have to do. And I think it's funny, just as I'm listening to our conversation is that so much of what I do is pointing parents back to, as you said, that intuition, that that internal guidance system for themselves as parents, to realize that just because I see something with tech or I mentioned internet service provider, it doesn't mean that they just shut down and say, Oh, forget it. And it's the same thing with our children. You know, the things that we're teaching them to, to recognize when they feel uncomfortable or if they feel ashamed, or, you know, or or in the opposite side, when they feel really happy, you know, to what makes them really happy when they're posting something, when they're sharing something great about what a friend's success, you know. So that way they can continue to do those positive things. And, you know, I always say, kind of, you know, keep the good and get rid of the bad. Yes,

Casey O'Roarty 42:04
right? Because these aren't the these aren't evil, these little, oh, there's so many awesome things about them. So coming back, I want to bring it back to just simply play and tease apart limits, because I don't think that we throw them to the wolves and say, good luck with monitoring yourself and how much phone use you have. I don't think that that's useful. I'm not a part of that camp, and I know that they need some space as especially as they get older, that they need space to to be able to notice like, well, what does happen when my phone doesn't just shut down automatically after three hours. And how can I my son's constantly like, can you just let me see how I do? You know, and they want that space. I'm not going to tell you what I say to that question pretty much, like,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 42:57
maybe one day.

Casey O'Roarty 42:59
But so talking. I know, again, I know that there's listeners who have younger kids, pre teens, young teens. So let's start first with that younger crowd. So what are some important, maybe some important, limits that you think parents should consider establishing at the beginning, as far as like time?

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 43:19
I think that for all technology, right, not just smartphones, but iPads and gaming consoles and computers, for every single thing that parents should really think about, a family media agreement or family media contract. And when I say that, I know parents are rolling their eyes, please. I don't mean some hardcore 10 page document, you can just make a chart, if you want to put it on the refrigerator that just says, you know, what are the rules? What are the consequences if the rules are broken, and you know what has to be done first? So for example, in my house, just a little chart that talks about, you know, what homework has to be done, how these rooms have to be clean, etc, etc. And then, you know, they can go ahead and play an hour of Fortnite, but of course, there are consequences when things don't get done, and that's just the way we roll. I think that parents need to keep that in mind for everything. The reason why I think smartphones are especially troublesome is because we use them for communication. I hear about teenagers who want to use them, keep them in their rooms because they need an alarm. I'm like, come on, parents, go get a an alarm clock. Okay, they don't need their smartphones in their room as an alarm clock. And the reason why I'm going to tell you two reasons why this is from another fabulous research project called wireless risk assessment, and they have found, you know, proven studies that Wi Fi is not so great for our children's health. And so, for example, my boys do not put their phones in their pockets because there are, there can be repercussions on fertility. Reality. So there's, there's a whole bunch of stuff with Wi Fi, right? And when you think it makes sense, when we put them in a purse or in a little guys can have, like, a little backpack or what have you, you know, or you can wear, actually. But my, what my 13 year old does, really, he takes a fanny pack, slings it over his shoulder, and he puts it the phone in his fanny pack.

Casey O'Roarty 45:18
Oh, good fanny pack for back everyone, by the way. Case You Didn't Know, they're much cooler now than they were in the 80s,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 45:26
as long as they're not neon, I think you can roll. Yeah, I think that that, you know, this is when I really want to talk about common sense, and I don't mean this in any sort of parent shaming way. But, you know, we always talk about no cell phones in bedrooms. And, you know, parents always say, oh, but they have, and it's not for any sort of bad or sneaky reason. It's just think about it, any sort of device in a bedroom or in any room where the child feels that it's intimate, it's dark, it's late at night. Think about you when you were a teenager on that Princess phone. You know, when you were talking to I don't know who I had

Casey O'Roarty 46:04
my online. I don't know what my parents were thinking, Yeah, me

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 46:08
too. Me too. And I had my little princess phone, and it was just, you know, I was, I was just chit chatting, just, you know, sharing away. And I think that that is the whole idea, is that, you know, it can just seem more intimate, and that's all and that if, and I also think it's important that parents remember, you know your teenager, you know your child. So a lot of the things that I've been talking about, if your child is a complex child, if your child has different challenges, or if you've already had, you know, problems with consequences before, please, you know, be, be stricter than you would need to be. If your child has not then, you know, then, you know, loosen up on the on the brakes. But really, you know your child best. And I think that parents need to really set out those expectations, you know, and just make it clear. Don't just common sense. Don't use your phone when you're driving. Don't use your phone when you're crossing the street, you know, what's the, what's the, what is the rule for your phone at school, pay attention to that. What about when we're going out to dinner, or even at the house, you know, for a family meal, it's all of those types of things. And I think really importantly for teenagers, to make them feel more included in this conversation is to ask them, you know, ask them to help you set some guidelines, not only for for you, but not only for them, but for the family. I know right now, I'm ashamed to say that my boys would say, Yes, Mommy, you shouldn't be on your phone so much. Okay, they got me, you know, did, of course, please, please. So, I mean, I think that those are some of the things that parents need to think about. And for goodness sake, they don't have to invent all of this stuff on their own. You know, there are, there are family media agreements out there. There are Facebook communities. There are, you know, communities in California, in Washington. I mean, everything is already there. Do you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just have to start rolling it around in your own home. And

Casey O'Roarty 48:06
I think, like talking about that, I think it's really important to highlight that the first agreement that you make is only the first agreement, right? Like, I think that we get in our heads where it's like, okay, yes, I've laid it out. This is how it is, follow the rules without realizing, like, well, we may have, you know, first of all, if we're coercing an agreement from our kids, you know, it's probably not going to be something that's followed very well, because, like, I love that you brought up, bring them into the conversation. Have them help in creating the boundaries I think that's so important for buy in and will up the likelihood that there will be good follow through. And a word about consequences. So anyone who's listened to me for a long time knows I'm not a huge fan of imposed consequences. However, when it comes to screens, screens, and I want everyone who's listening to hear this. Screens are a privilege. They are not a right. Screens are a privilege, and privilege without responsibility equals entitlement, right? Oh, can

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 49:15
we make a bumper sticker for that? I love it. Where I

Casey O'Roarty 49:17
heard that first was from Jane Nelson, who wrote all the positive discipline books, so I'm going to credit her with that. But privilege without responsibility is entitlement. So when there is you know, when responsibility isn't which means, like, I'm going to live up to this agreement that I made, then it's you know. And the way that I say it to the kids is, you know, so you're this just shows me that the boundaries a little too wide. So we're going to bring the boundary in a little bit to support you, so that you can kind of be in the training in the training field again, so that then everybody feels like, okay, the skills are there. We can push the boundaries out a little bit. So it's not about like, Well, you did it wrong. You didn't do it, and now I'm mad at you. So, so hand over the phone, right? Like it's a different Exactly.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 50:05
Love that, and I and just to add to that, as far as this whole idea about it being the first contract or the first agreement, I also want parents to remember the flexibility. You know what you tell that 10 year old is not going to be the same as the 13 year old or the 15 year old or 18 year old, and these things change, they evolve, and that it's absolutely fine. And I think it's also really, really important that parents realize that they can kind of make it a rite of passage. So any time that they give their child a new device, they can say, oh, let's break out some new agreements. Let's break out some new rules, or you add an upgrade to something, you know, get creative. Use the holidays, you know, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, use whatever you can as this is a celebration. I trust you. You have more responsibility. Now. Let's write it all out and figure out how we can make this work. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 50:57
and sometimes we'll even say if it's if it's new. And I just want to say this, especially to those of you that are listening who are like, oh gosh, I haven't been doing this. And now I'm going to jump into it, something that is really helpful too, is to say, hey, let's try this for a week, and then sit down again next week and see how it felt, and see where we can tweak things, and then try it, you know, and then move on from there. I think it's really helpful for kids, too, to know like, Okay, I'll try this for a week Exactly. And then you kind of get to see where the gaps are, right? Yeah, where we feel like, ooh, actually, I know I said that, but I actually need it to be a little different. And the kids get to say it so flexibility.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 51:38
They grind. Yep. I agree.

Casey O'Roarty 51:40
So what about also, speaking of, I see you out there all the parents that have older teens, and they did not start really well with any kind of contractor agreement, and now it's like, oh shoot, I've got to rein things in. And I haven't been super strict about this. What do you think, what are some openings that you can offer for those parents to start the conversation? Because kids, they get really defensive, like you. I mean, I'm sure you've seen it. It's like a caged animal. Sometimes, when it's like, hey, I want to talk to you about your phone use, they're

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 52:15
like, right, right, right, right. Well, I think that this is, again, that part where parents have to be creative because, you know, yes, it's they haven't imposed all of these things or followed these tips, and it's okay if they haven't, you know, seen anything or heard anything crazy just until right now, then that probably means your teen has handled it. But one way that you can, you know, get into that conversation is just by using, you know, the media, you know, what have you heard on on TV, or what did you see on Facebook? And just be like, Oh my gosh, did you, did you hear about that? You know, what's this whole Tiktok thing? You know, what's going on? I heard that like, you know, you can see these sex dances, or sexy dances on to, what's that about, you know? And just, they're probably gonna say, Oh, Mom,

Casey O'Roarty 53:01
I've seen your sexy dances on Tiktok. We need to have a conversation.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 53:06
Exactly, I think that it's, you know, there's just, you can't just go into this in that accusatory tone. But it's really just being a, you know, of course, as with anything being curious and saying, Listen, I'm not trying to police you. I'm just trying to find out what's going on and to let you know that I'm here to support here to support you. And I also think that parents need to to remember that sometimes they may not be the first line of defense. And so to make sure that your older teens that they have an aunt, an uncle, a neighborhood a neighbor friend, Eagle Scout leader, I don't know another trusted adult that they can speak to because, you know, let's face it, they don't want to tell us everything. Yeah, and

Casey O'Roarty 53:43
I'm even thinking about, I've gone into some conversations that I know are gonna be tough conversations, and before we even have that conversation, I start, I slice it even thinner and say, you know, I want to, like, for example, I want to talk to you about current phone use, and I know it's a hard conversation for us to have, and I'm going to be bringing it up with you tomorrow, right? But I just want to say to you right now that this is something that's, you know, been tapping on my shoulder, and I think is really important, so I'm giving you a heads up that this conversation's coming, yeah.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 54:19
And I would also even add to that, as far as giving them the heads up, that when you do have the conversation, and this is for any of these conversations, you know, that it's not when the teen is tired, hungry, angry because they got a B minus, you know, pick the right time. And it might also, like I said, be some of that no brainer time where they're just helping you wash the dishes and it's just, you know, it seems you know, it seems less stressful. Yeah, yeah. You have to pick your moment parents. You can do it. You

Casey O'Roarty 54:47
can really do this. You can do it. And it's not when you it's probably not going to be when it comes to your mind. I know for me, I'm like, oh, I want to talk to them about that, and then I have to check myself. I'd same thing with my husband. Yeah. I like to have all the conversations the minute he wakes up and he's like,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 55:06
I do it.

When mine comes in the door, I'm always like, Hey, did you know? He's like, Okay, wait, just let me breathe here. And I never know what's wrong.

Casey O'Roarty 55:17
So you mentioned about the phones not being in the rooms, and I have to confess to something, and I'm curious as to your feedback. So I was really good at no phones in the room. We had some comical moments where I would catch my daughter literally crawling down the hallway a couple years ago, and we would laugh, but it was still like, this is the limit. And then something like, we we've had a rocky couple of years, and something happened, and that loosened up. And what I do do, we mentioned the screen the family screen time, so their phones do shut down at a certain time, and then they come back online at a certain time, and they're in their room all night so they can listen to, like, there's a couple, like, a, like, a headspace, a meditation app. And so I'm wondering if I'm fooling myself. I

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 56:12
don't think that you're fooling yourself, but I would just suggest you read again wireless risk assessment, because, you know, you don't really, I mean, just think about it this way, even with our the internet service provider, right, the nice little box that you have that's giving you your cable right? You're not sitting there sleeping with your head right next to that. Are you? No, no, no,

Casey O'Roarty 56:34
there you go. No, because it's not my room.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 56:37
So maybe you should put your phone with your cable

box. Okay, okay, yeah,

just because, you know, that's already just one thing, that's just the health reason. But if you're, if you seriously, if your child's the teens, their phone is, you know, shutting down, etc. I mean, that that really is the issue is that the phones are on that there's the blue lights, you know, it takes longer to fall asleep, they receive notifications. You know they're they're waking up, beep, beep, beep, etc. So if you know, if the phone is really off, then it's off. It's not, it's not a big deal. And that's probably the same thing with the Wi Fi. Yeah, if it's off, off, off, there shouldn't be that much of an issue. So no, don't worry. But like I said, I really do like to make sure that parents think about this and that they know about this and and actually, I was a, I was at what was it was for European ombudsman of children rights, so all of the children's rights commissioners in Europe, you know, and we were at this meeting, Casey, we were flabbergasted to hear this doctor do This report on wireless risk assessment, and we all swore from then on out that we would always bring this up whenever we talk about Internet safety, because nobody ever talks about it. So that's all I'm saying about that. And if you're the phone is shutting down, it's winding down, it's fine, okay,

Casey O'Roarty 57:54
okay. And so the last little thing, not so little, that I want to talk to you about and again, I might just need to have you come on my podcast and talk about this outside of the summit. But I know it's a thing, and I know it could be a whole nother interview, but talk to me a little bit about cyber bullying. I feel like it was like a hot issue, and I don't know if it's just because of my little family unit or society as a whole, but it doesn't feel like there's as much conversation about cyberbullying, although maybe it's just, maybe we just talk about trolls now or cancel culture, right? But what's going on?

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 58:36
Yeah, so I think that you know, cyberbullying is still happening and the trolls are still out there, and all of that online hate and negativity is still there. Unfortunately, the problem is that it's become banal. You know, we're just gonna We're so used to it that it's like, oh yeah, whatever, here in Europe, which, again, is, in my opinion, still pretty representative of what's happening around the world. For example, at the helplines here in France, every year, we get together with the other European countries, and we pull together the majority of calls that we are receiving from children to the helpline to the free helplines in European countries. Every year, cyberbullying is number one. And you know, parents are always concerned about Stranger danger or grooming. It's never it's like, you know, less than 5% of the calls it's really like, and even throughout these statistics, it's something like 24 to 27% of the time. It's cyberbullying, where kids just don't know what to do. They are being harassed. They feel badly. They are seeing kids being bullied. They are being bullied. They are the bully, right? It's all the things, all of the things. It's, it's still out there, and it's so easy to do, you know? And it's 24/7, and it's, you know, you can sit there and bully someone is by simply just, you know? I. Adding really nasty comments on YouTube again and again and again on all the different posts that they've had. There is cyberbullying in Google Documents, right where the kids are all doing online documents together, and they're just, all of a sudden, just trashing each other. I mean, cyberbullying, it's, it's everywhere, and this is, I think it's a really important point for anything that is not so great any of the negative things online. We can find it anywhere. It's not going to be on a certain platform. You know, there's no point to sit here and talk about Tiktok or Snapchat or Facebook, etc. This is it's on everything and and it's really important that parents talk to their their children, just about all of it about, you know, just digital citizenship and just about digital responsibility and what to do if you see something. Because I think a lot of parents don't realize that, you know, we immediately think about the child who is being bullied, and we say, oh, you know, bless That's so sad. But we also don't think about the child who is the bully, and because there are some serious consequences there, nor do people think about the kids who are watching this stuff, they also are affected. So when we talk about, you know, what can we do? How can we get our kids to even open up? It's, again, those conversation starters. It's, it's, you know, letting them know that you heard about something in the media, that you saw something that you're concerned, you know it has nothing to do with them, but that you know you were seeing that in France, there was more cyberbullying. What have you for that? I think again, that one of the best resources that I know of is in the United States. It's called the Cyberbullying Research Center, and they have fantastic little 10 top tips for parents, things you know, what to do if your child is being bullied. What to do if your child is bullying and it's just it just makes it really even things like, you know, how can you recognize if your child is in a bullying situation? And I think I would say overall, for everything we're talking about, not just cyber bullying, sexting, all of this stuff, the whole online in world, and the engagement of our children. Parents, you know, your children, right? And you so, you know, when something is a little off, when they start acting a little nervous, when they start shutting the screens. Yes, some of it can just be regular, regular teens, you know, being funny, they don't want you to see what they're working on. But, you know, some of it can mean something more serious, and I think that's what parents have to be a little attuned to, is that, you know, this, this digital age, this online world, brings so many fabulous, fabulous opportunities, but the risks are, there. They're small, but when they happen, they are so icky and huge. It's just not fun

Casey O'Roarty 1:02:45
well. And I love that this conversation that we're having right now that you all are listening in on, like, use it right? Go to your kids and say, oh my gosh, I was listening to this great interview between two brilliant women, and they were talking about, right? And they were talking about limits on cell phones, or they were talking about cyber bullying, or, you know, pick one of the many topics that Elizabeth and I have shared today and use it as, you know, an opener. And, you know, really just follow up, because I'm curious what you think about that, or do you like I'm thinking right now I'm going to ask my son today, I'm going to ask him, like, do you see people tearing people down, and in comments like, where do you I'm I'm curious as to where he's seeing it, because I'm guessing he's seeing it, yes, and I guarantee you he's

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:03:36
seeing it, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he's he's seeing it. But I think what's also interesting too, is that follow up question is, how is it making you feel? Yes, because I really think they have become desensitized to a lot of it, because they see, you know, it just happens, you know, all the time. For example, you know, I'm African American, and I think that something that, you know, a lot of the kids don't think about is like, you know, you're watching a YouTube influencer or, etc, and there's rap songs, and all of a sudden they'll drop the N word, and it's just like the kids are getting so used to these things. And, you know, or anti semitism, or, you know, sexism, exactly, you know, you hit like a girl. You know, what does that mean? You hit like a girl. Come on, let me show you how I hit like a girl. You know, I'm six foot one. Yeah? Exactly, you know. So I think it's all of those things that we have to remember that are happening, that are, you know, our children are being exposed to, and that if we want them to grow up to be, you know, resilient and responsible, digital citizens, we have to get in there and tell them, you know, how we roll what we think is appropriate behavior and, and, I mean, it's fairly easy to do because they're our kids. Are cool, you know, think about how cool it is to sit there and have a conversation with them and, you know, to find out, hey, well, what's happened? Have you seen that? No, I can't believe that. Wow, that's really cool. I've learned so much about four. Fortnite and Minecraft and YouTube influencers and all kinds of just by asking they want us to be involved in their world until about 17 or 18.

Casey O'Roarty 1:05:12
Well, and I think too, like even as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, oh man, because I know way more about basketball players than I ever care to know. And I do have moments where I'm like, Ian, this is not an interesting fact to me, and I've got to check myself right, because he is telling me he does want to share what gets him excited. And you know, I'm also thinking one of the things, I just have to share this story so both of my kids, my son's kind of still in it. My daughter's moved out of it. But are really they both have had their time with just the mumbly SoundCloud rappers, yes, and it's super explicit and it's funny. Every like, three or four months in my teen parent community, it'll be like, usually, a parent of like, a 1314, year old will say, like, Oh my gosh. I can't believe the music my kids listening to. It's like, you know, exactly when they discover it, and then they just deep dive, and it is. And one of the things I said to my kids one time as I listened to, you know, one of the guys that they listened to is, how would it feel to be in the hallway? It's like, would you want to hang out with this person if they were just speaking this? Like, how would that feel? And, you know, of course, first I get a huge eye roll, because they're like, oh God, here comes the lesson, right? Really, like, I would be so uncomfortable to hang out with someone who was talking about my body parts using all the words and like, saying the things that they wanted me to do to them, like a porn star, like exactly

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:06:51
the same thing to my boys, making them laugh. I say, Oh, so it's okay if I come up to your school and start twerking. Is that what you want?

Yeah, oh, I can really pull something off for you. Oh, my gosh. They're like, come on, please don't embarrass me. No, no,

yeah, but yeah, no, I but there's just, there's so much good out there. And our kids, I mean, they gosh, I mean they are so fortunate. And I really think that parents, I mean, they can do this. They really can. And I think that, you know, the work that you're doing is just that vital, vital step to that they that they need. Because, quite frankly, they don't need me. If parents just talk to their kids, they don't need to understand all of the intricacies of the digital world. They just have to get in there and do some positive parenting and make sure that they got their children's back and that they're communicating. It's just that simple, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 1:07:45
and I think if you're not, if that communication really feels like you're really stuck there, parents, you know, take a couple steps back, and instead of dealing with the screen issue, start building relationship, you know, start spending some more time together. Start to nurture the environment until it becomes a space where your kids feel safe having real, honest conversations with you, because until that feels like you know, until they really believe that they're not going to be judged or criticized, they're not open. So work on that relationship.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:08:21
There you go. I like that.

Casey O'Roarty 1:08:24
How's that? For a little wrap up,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:08:27
it's excellent. Makes me want to go talk to my boys.

Casey O'Roarty 1:08:30
Um, so thank you so much. Thank you. Oh gosh for coming on and talking to us and sharing your wisdom. No,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:08:38
my pleasure. Like I said, this is, this is my this is my jam. I love this, anything, digital technology, my goodness, I love it. Talk everything.

Casey O'Roarty 1:08:47
God bless you.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:08:49
I know somebody has to write. Some adult has to love that stuff.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:52
Will you

Casey O'Roarty 1:08:53
please? We complete things here? Will you just let listeners know where they can find you and follow your work? Yeah,

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:08:59
for sure. So the best place to actually hang out with me and other parents is my Facebook group, which is the digital parenting community. And we've got parents and grandparents and child online protection experts and cybersecurity specialists and even child psychologists all there, you know, on standby, offering resources and support. And then the other best place to find me is just my website, which is digitalparentingcoach.com, and and that's it. I mean, once you get to those places, you will find me. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm I'm on all the social media. You can even find me on Tiktok. Are

you on Tiktok? Yeah, all right, yes, I

am. Everything is always the same. It's at Digi parent coach, and you can find me in all of those places, even on YouTube, same thing. You won't see me dancing. I won't be doing the Renegade, nor will I have on kitty fin. No, did I mention I'm a lawyer with a PhD, yet no twerking.

They might do. My California bar away.

Casey O'Roarty 1:10:02
This has been so fun. I'm so glad to be in conversation with you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I know it's late in France where you are, so

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:10:11
yes, but thank you.

You're quite welcome. It was a pleasure anytime I enjoyed speaking with you. It's I'm just thinking about Ian and Rowan right now.

Casey O'Roarty 1:10:20
They're good ones. They're good ones.

Dr. Elizabeth Milovidov 1:10:23
Good, good. You take care. Casey,

okay, yay. Wasn't

Casey O'Roarty 1:10:35
that so good, so good. Thank you again for listening. I really hope you enjoyed the interview. Don't forget that you can get the seven tips for connecting with your teens when you sign up for my email list, joyful courage.com/email and you can find and purchase all of the summits at joyful courage.com/. 2020, Ms. All of these links are in the show notes. Don't worry about that. Also be sure you follow me in all the places I'm at. Joyful underscore courage on Instagram, and just straight up, joyful courage on Facebook. We have a really awesome Facebook group called joyful courage for parents of teens, if you want to be more in conversation with the community, and if you're feeling super inspired and you are a super fan and you haven't already done this, please do me a favor and head over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. I work really hard to stand out and make as big of an impact as I can on families, and your review will help this show be seen by even more parents. And if you're like, I don't really want to do that. Another way that you can be in support is by snapping a screenshot and sharing it on Instagram or Facebook. Tag me and I will repost it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Be sure to follow me and all the places like I already said, I love connecting with you. Okay, friends, let's sign off by taking a deep breath, a nice juicy inhale, riding it in your body, exhaling, releasing it. Find your balcony seat. Lift up and out and find your balcony seat. For perspective from this place, trust, know, believe that everyone's going to be okay. I will see you next week.

See more