Eps 294: LIVE COACHING Influencing Sibling Dynamics

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Transcription

Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Also in the moment or outside of the moment, but then in the moment, you say, like, okay, you know this is this tool called boot 'em out. So looks like you guys are having a problem. You're welcome to continue arguing. You just have to go out on the back porch to do it. Hello. Hello friends. Welcome to the joyful courage podcast, a place where we tease apart what it means to be a conscious parent and a conscious human on the wild ride of raising teenagers. I'm your host. Casey o'rourdy, positive discipline lead trainer, parent, coach and mom walking the path right next to you as I imperfectly raise my own two kids, joyful courage is all about grit growth on the parenting journey, relationships that provide a sense of connection and meaning and influential tools that support everyone in being their best selves. Today's show is super special. I mentioned a few weeks back that I wanted to bring some live coaching to the show. Today is the first of those live coaching calls that you get to listen in on. I'm super grateful for my guest. She shows up in beautiful transparency and authenticity, and we talk about something that I know so many of us are navigating with our kids, sibling dynamics. I hope that you get so much from this show, and I'm so excited for you to listen. Enjoy the show.

Okay, hey, listeners, welcome. I'm so excited about this show today because we're in experimental territory. A few weeks ago, I said, who wants to come on and get some live coaching? And my Instagram friend Giselle said, Pick Me. And so Giselle, I'm so excited that you're here and willing to play with me and get some coaching live. Oh

Speaker 1 2:03
my gosh, I am more excited than you are. I mean, the resources that you share has that you've shared during these last couple of years that I've been following you have been so useful and has really transformed me. You know, it has transformed me. And I'm trying, I'm going to try not to get emotional, but it has transformed me in such a beautiful way that I felt I was like, Yes, I'm going to ask for this opportunity right away, because it's pretty amazing what you do with us.

Casey O'Roarty 2:33
Oh, well, thank you, and I have to share some gratitude to you too, because you know you can see me right now because we're on Zoom, and I sit in front of this microphone and I speak into it, and I don't always know how things land for people, and it's always so beautiful when I hear from listeners and you've been like a consistent person who will show up and say thank you, or this is how that landed for me, or I really appreciate so thank you for that. Yes, thank you for that. It's always good to know that I'm not just speaking into the void, and that what I'm putting out is useful. So I'm really, I'm really honored to get to both offer this space to you and to solve a very real and relevant problem, or to get you, move you in the direction of finding a solution, and also just really honored that you are willing, because this is a, I mean, it's a vulnerable space, right, like millions of people are going to be listening now, I'm just kidding, yes, yes, but no, I mean, you're, you're, you, you're, you're doing a service to all of us, because and listeners, what you're going to hear is we're going to get into sibling dynamic and sibling fighting. And for anyone who has more than one kid, I mean, yeah, right, yes, yes, it's not just Yeah, it's super messy and it's just real. It's a real thing. So Giselle and I said, Yeah, book it. I sent you the link, and I asked you a couple of questions, so I'm just going to read your response to the questions, and then we'll dig in.

Unknown Speaker 4:08
Does that sound good to you? Fantastic. Yes, awesome.

Casey O'Roarty 4:10
So the first question was to describe the current challenge and who's involved. So you said that your current challenge is how to respond when your kids start fighting and arguing, and they just don't stop, and they keep going back and forth and back and forth. All of this while you're working on maintaining your coolness, your zen, my back flipping, yes, finding the balcony seat, and you find yourself trying to let each of them know that they're you know that they can find their own peace and that they don't need to continue to argue if they have if they understand what their own truth is right. And then the next question was, what is your desired outcome? And you said, I would like to know and learn a successful way to make them stop arguing. And the follow up conversation. That probably need to happen after they've cooled off, and you want to really use these situations to support them on their journey of developing healthy relationships. Yeah,

Speaker 1 5:10
yeah, it's I'm sure I'm not the only one, and as I've been following along in your journey and learning from your journey, you know, sitting in the balcony, it's fantastic, but there comes a time where

Speaker 1 5:31
progress so much in reacting and responding to these situations, yeah, but I feel that I am leaving out an important component of the dynamic that happens when they fight and and how we can move on from it,

Casey O'Roarty 5:48
yeah, and so you've got tell me who your kids are. So you've got a 15 year old daughter,

Speaker 1 5:54
15 year old daughter, and a SIX and a 10 year old son. Okay, well, they're both very, very active, okay,

Casey O'Roarty 6:03
very, very active. Meaning, they've got a lot of stuff going on, a lot of things they're interested in. Is that what you mean, or, like, big bodies,

Speaker 1 6:12
I mean, during this, these past six years that I've been living in the United States, I've been in my I've been, you know, learning a lot from other, from many things, and I feel that I want to provide them the space to to grow from their from their extracurricular activities, from their, you know, their creative side and and they are very outspoken. You know, we've developed a culture in our house which has not always been very good in school, but we've promoted an open space to express our emotions, right? So it's yes, yes. You know, I want my kids to feel comfortable expressing their emotions, right? And that comes with that no that back and forth and how to stop it is the biggest challenge. So my kids will tell you when something hurts them emotionally or physical, and they'll tell you when they're happy, when they're confused, when they have any type of an opinion on anything going on. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 7:21
where were you before you were here where I'm

Speaker 1 7:25
Puerto Rican. I'm from Puerto Rico, yes, and I moved to the States six and a half years ago to precisely, you know, give them these opportunities and more.

Casey O'Roarty 7:35
Okay, so, okay, great. So you've got a 16 year, 15 year old, battered 10 year old son, lots of room for expression, beautiful, right? And because they're siblings, they're getting into the muck with each other. I so I do want to highlight one of the things that I loved about your response to the first question. I find myself trying to let each of them know that they own their piece and that they do not need to continue to argue if they have their own truth. This is beautiful, lovely, and something that they will come to understand over time with lots and lots of practice, right?

You? Uh. So the cool thing about siblings is it is a place where they learn about relationships, right? It's a place where they don't have to, like in a peer relationship, there's pressure, you know? There's all sorts of different dynamic happening. But in a sibling relationship, Nobody's going anywhere. Nobody's you know, there's no like, Oh, I'm not going to be friends with you anymore. I'm not going to be your brother anymore. That's just not I mean, they can make that choice when they're adults, but until they leave the house, like they're stuck with this person, right? So it's this, really. It's kind of a double edged sword. On one hand, it's amazing because it's this lifelong or this, you know, early days, practice and being together and and sharing opinion, sharing relationship with parents, bouncing off of each learning to banter, learning that problem solving practice. But at the same time, it's like, Ah, this person never goes anywhere. They're always right here and oh my gosh, they're so annoying, right? So both of those things exist at the same time. So I want to know about what your experience is when they fight. So how does it make you feel? Actually? Will you tell me about the lot like, give me a scenario about the last time where it really felt like, this is what I want to talk to Casey

Speaker 1 9:46
about. Well, I can think of it. I can I mean, I've progressed, and we're still learning, obviously, sure, but I can think of two scenarios, one where I've kept my core. Wool, and one where I was like, where's the chancleta? And I love that podcast that you had, you know, like, I'm like, I'm getting I'm taking off my shoe, and I'm just gonna make them stop, which we know that it did not stop. It just worse. And obviously I felt horrible. And this happened maybe, like, a year ago or something, and then I can think about such a

Casey O'Roarty 10:22
good it's such a it's such a reminder of how our conditioning, right, our upbringing, our conditioning lives so deeply inside of us, even when you, like you, of all people who've been in touch with me, like you're really committed to this journey, and you know, and myself included, like, even when we're super committed to it. It doesn't mean that that conditioning can't creep out. So thank you for being honest about that. So what was going on?

Speaker 1 10:48
So I can't even remember. It was really like in the heights of the pandemic here in Florida. I cannot remember. You know these kids, you're touching me. Don't look at me, don't, you know, she said something mean to him, he responded. And that just did not stop. Okay, that's, you know, I kind of, like, reacted. And then, like, think of another scenario where, then again, you know, my teenager has not slept enough because she's a night owl, and then we want to do things in the weekend, and she needs to wake up because, if not, she's stuck at home. And then she gets mad, you know how it goes? So probably we were going to the beach or something, and I woke her up real early. So you know how that day is going to start, and anything and everything will just sparkle a discussion. And, you know, I'm trying to teach my little guy, which I feel blessed to have a boy, that I can really help him be a better generation. And I'm telling him, Listen, Armando, keep your cool, you know. And the older one like, please stop. This is not going anywhere. Do you Do you realize that this is not going anywhere? And just like repeating, own your piece, own your piece. And I felt wonderful because I did not have to get involved.

Casey O'Roarty 12:11
Great. So when they fight, when they start to get into it, right when they start to get into it, how do you feel in those moments. What's an emotion? Balcony,

Speaker 1 12:23
right? The balcony, right? And

Casey O'Roarty 12:26
so, how does it feel as you observe your kids fighting with each other and not responding when you're asking them to stop? How does that feel for you?

Speaker 1 12:39
Well, how does it feel?

Unknown Speaker 12:43
Yeah,

Speaker 1 12:44
I mean, I feel that I own my peace, okay. I feel as in I'm in control of my peace, and I am not going to let them take me off okay, and I am trying to make them stop. I don't know, but I'm not desperate. I'm still my cool. I'm owning my piece. I am just listening to them in the back arguing, you know, back and forth. And I'm just like praying stops. Casey, let me be honest. I'm just like praying and just stops, right?

Casey O'Roarty 13:20
So one, one route that we take is like, I'm staying outside of it, I'm letting it happen. I'm taking care of myself, which is a really powerful and important practice, right? And then the other part of your question is like, and what does it sound like to help them kind of process, move through it, because it's yes in the moment, right? In the moment, the best thing we can do is, as long as it's not a physical confrontation, right? So everybody listen to me when I say, if it's a physical confrontation, you get in there and you keep everybody safe, yeah, so that's the thing. But when they are having a hard time and interacting with each other in a way that's hard to listen to, where you're doing your practice getting into the balcony seat, it really is powerful to allow them the space to be in the muck and in the experience of relationship, because that's really what's happening. Now, one thing to keep in mind too, that's all well and good, but the other piece is having those conversations after the fact before the fact, like, hey, guess what? Life comes with conflict. Right relationship comes with conflict right now. Conflict exists, and it looks like brother and sister or mom and daughter, or dad and daughter, you know, like we live in this little micro experience where we all get to feel the whole range of emotion because of the relationships that. We're in with each other. So in our family, what are the things that we value, right? And you as a family, like, what do we value? Do we value honesty and kindness and what else is there?

Unknown Speaker 15:17
Yeah, respect. I

Casey O'Roarty 15:19
mean, yeah, respect. Okay, great. So you generate, yes, yes. So you're generating, like, these are the things that we value, and there's going to be things on the list Giselle that you value, that your daughter might be like, I don't really care about that. And that's, that's fine, that is what it is. But at the end of the day, we've got to be able to solve problems with each other. So supporting the kids with some ideas around you know, sometimes you know little brother, your big sister, man, she makes you crazy. What are some things that you can do for yourself, right? And if you want to bring in that language that you already use around, how do we because it's one thing to say, right, like, own your piece. It's another thing to like, know what that means, right?

Unknown Speaker 16:16
I figure it's too complex for probably.

Casey O'Roarty 16:18
I don't think it's complex, but I think it's something that you get to, like, tease apart, right? And say, like, what is you hear me say this all the time. What do you think it means? Okay, you know. And then, and then being the practice of it, like, when is it easy to own your piece, right? When is it easy to own your piece, and when is it harder? I would say you had said before we hit record, like, in the car, when the bickering starts, like, yeah, in small, confined places, it and now we're pissed off. Like, it's really hard to own our piece. In the car, when you're sibling is, you know, it's on top of yours is looking at you wrong, right? You get to own your piece, and this is what it looks like in that scenario. So I think breaking down, and this is really important. I think we're really good at this. When our kids are little, it's like, okay, taking time to train right, teaching them how to do things, breaking things down into small steps. When they get older, we kind of expect, like, Come on, get it together. You guys, forgetting that they're still developing those tools, right? They're still developing the tools that are required for them to let it go, right? I don't know if you ever say that, but I say that to my kids all the time, just let it go. Yeah, you know what letting it go means defeat to them, right? Letting it go means I'm saying that somehow I don't matter and they're more important. Like, they're making meaning too. So you get to, like, unpack that with them and talk about that. Like, what makes it hard when I say, you know, let it go or own your piece. What are you hearing? Right?

Speaker 1 17:59
So what you're saying is that after after this happens, we go back to that phrase of owning your piece. What do you understand? Because in the moment, I can't,

Casey O'Roarty 18:15
oh no, not in the moment. Yeah, and I would say, not even after the fact. I would say, like, tomorrow, don't wait. Don't wait for it to be a reflection. Just like, open up the conversation right now. Like, hey, guess what? There are more sibling conflicts in our future, because that's what happens when you have siblings, right? So let's talk about some ways. And I want everyone to hear this too, not just you, Giselle, I think that we really want there to be a solution so that our kids don't fight. And I don't have that sorry, I would charge a lot of money if I could give you that solution. But really, what we can do, and what we want to do is keep is like, bring it down to adult roar. Because the beautiful thing about conflict is that's when they're flexing their muscles. That's when they're flexing their resiliency muscles and their problem solving muscles. You know, is when there is a real conflict happening. That's when they get to practice or choose whether or not they're going to practice something like self regulation. Yeah, because a lot of this comes back to self regulation, right? Because they flip, because the sister does something, and it ticks off the brother, and now he's out of control, and her mirror neurons get triggered, and she's flipped. And you're doing your work, owning your piece on the balcony. In the meantime, you're, you know, your kids are really dysregulated, so having conversations beforehand about that, I'm curious what it was like for you growing up with your siblings,

Speaker 1 19:53
I was raised by my single mom and my brother. My brother is two years older than me. Mm, hmm. And I was always more dominant, and he was my older brother, but, you know, I don't know. So

Casey O'Roarty 20:09
you were feisty. Did you guys fight very much?

Speaker 1 20:12
I guess we did when we were little and when we were like in middle school and high school. No, my brother is a very chill person, you know, now I don't even remember why we fought when we were little, honestly, but I know that we probably, you know, had our times and and then my mom passed away when I was 16, and we kind of like had a, you know, refocus and set goals and do things right moving forward. So we never had any problems after that. But I don't have, I don't recall, I don't I don't recall having many fights with my brother. Okay?

Casey O'Roarty 20:53
And you were closer in age too. Yes, we're to a certain age. Okay, so when your kids fight. How do you project their relationship now into the future? Or do you

Speaker 1 21:08
okay one day he doesn't want her to touch her or nothing, and then the next day, she's telling she's He's telling her, Karina, I love you. Thank you for bringing me ice cream. And they're all They're both fans of each other's sports, and they want to support each other and cheer them up. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how it will look like. I mean, she my daughter, you know, she looks up for his future in sports and and, and my brother, you know? I mean my son. I think, I think my daughter looks more into him and for his well being and, like, I can't stand her, yeah, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 21:57
So you see a little bit more of a softness from the daughter to the Son, versus the son looking up to the daughter, yes. And I would

Speaker 1 22:05
say Casey, this is like more recent, because my daughter has been sleeping more, and we know how that goes. Everyone listen

Casey O'Roarty 22:13
to that podcast. It's a really good one about sleeping more nicer. Yeah, yeah, she doesn't hear me, yeah. Well, and another piece around sibling dynamic too, that we talk about in positive discipline is it often is related to how secure the kids feel in their relationship to their parents. So I'm curious too, like, what does special time and connection look like with the kids and with you? And do you have a partner? Yes, my husband. Okay, so you have your husband. So what is, what is connection look like? If you were going to ask the kids like, who they thought got more, probably use the word attention. That would make the most sense to them. What would they say,

Unknown Speaker 23:02
um, can you explain that again? Like, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 23:04
so you know our kids, so you know belonging and significance. I talk about belonging and significance and feeling connected to the family, right? So, um, feeling like they're seen, they're understood, they're heard, having a solid connection with mom, having a solid connection with dad. How is that looking for your two kids right now?

Speaker 1 23:32
Maybe, maybe that's a I don't, I wouldn't be able to answer in their behalf. I wouldn't know, but I can, I can share that, you know my husband, you know he has, like, a more steady, not a steady, job, but you know he's his responsibilities are more rigid, you know, so I'm the one that most of the time is bringing in, Taking, talking, yeah, troubleshooting in school and sports and he, you know, and our family times. I'm an Enneagram eight, so I'm always looking for fun and adventure. So when we are able to be together, we're always, you know, either camping or boating or in the beach or in a game or something like that, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 24:21
yeah, yeah. So you do have your family time. You make sure that you have time together as a family. Do you think that the kids do the kids tend to have so sometimes in families, kids will fall into different roles, like he's the sporty one, she's the smart one, or she's the sporty one, he's the smart winner. This one is more challenging. He's our tough one. This one's the easier one. Do you think that your kids fall into roles like that? What are they?

Speaker 1 24:52
I say my daughter is, she's a dancer and she has good grades. She's like very similar. Uh, well, she would not say that, but she's very self motivated and completing her task. I basically have backed away from her high school responsibilities, and because, at the same time, because of my experience growing up, I just let her, you know, figure things out and and be responsible for whatever consequence she has in school and whatever. And she has good friends and stuff. And my son, my son, he is very active, as I mentioned, and he's very sporty. He is very athletically gifted in in sports, but he cannot stand still. You know, he's the one with the behavior, okay, or things like that.

Casey O'Roarty 25:41
Okay, so my guess is he's probably one that could use some like one on one time with mom and with dad that have nothing to do with his behavior and just everything with I see you, I love you just as you are, because what happens is when they start to feel like that foundational connection is a little bit shaky, and it has nothing to do Giselle with whether or not you're a good mom, like you can be doing all the things. They have, their filter, they have their meaning making, and if he probably knows like I'm the tough one, I'm hard for my teachers. I can't sit still. Everybody's bugged by that, but I can't help it. So he's making meaning and then income sister, because it's kind of hard to hold that, especially for at a 10 years old, it's hard to hold that. You're kind of a lot for people, right? And so you kids want to release some of that. We'll call it pain, some of that discomfort. And the best way to do that is to pull other people into it, like sisters walking by, and I'm kind of feeling a little bit edgy, and so maybe I'll just like, give her a little shove, right, or make a weird face at her, and then Sister, you know, it's annoying, and so she responds, and then the buildup happens, right? So a proactive thing to do, and I know like parents that are might be listening right now are like, wait, what? What does this have to do with sibling dynamic, this whole one on one time? But what happens is, as he feels more secure in his relationships, he's going to become more easygoing, right? Not like a whole different kid, but as far as, like, that discomfort of Ugh, my role, and everybody's always irritated by me, you can kind of smooth that out, and then the need to be in conflict and to pass on the pain. We'll call it kind of lessons, right? It lessons. So that's one piece that I'm going to encourage you to do, is really get into one on one time. What's his name? Remain?

Unknown Speaker 27:50
Armando.

Casey O'Roarty 27:52
Armando. That's a great name, Armando. So really let him know. You know what Armando? I want us to have a little bit more Mother Son time. So, like, a couple times this week, would you like to go on a bike ride with me? Should we go to the park and kick your soccer ball around? Like, whatever? Let Him decide. Obviously, it'll be something active, because he that's what he likes to do. And so you're going to meet him there, but really enjoy him, like, really, like, relish that one on one time with your sweet little guy who can't stop moving right and then, as well having conversations the whole family, like, how are we going to navigate conflict with each other? What are some things that we can do, that we can commit to doing when we when there's a problem between us. What are your ideas, right? So bringing it to the table and having it instead of like you two kids and you're fighting, we're done, right? Instead of it looking like that, have it really be like we're we're a family. Yeah, we're a family, and sometimes we're going to have conflict. And so what's important to remember, how do we want to interact with each other when we're feeling mad? What is the language we can use when somebody's pushing our buttons right? How can we let them know and then, how do we the other person? How can we receive it in a way that, you know we can then change our behavior.

Speaker 1 29:30
One of the things that we we practice here is like, if we're having a discussion, is going nowhere. We stop conversation right there. I'm like, listen this in ex, whoever this is going nowhere. So let's just when we're cooled off, we can bring back the conversation, and we could talk about it again. Yeah, he's so funny because now my little guy, he was like, You, if he's mad at me, he's like, Mom, I don't want to talk to you. I. Hmm. And I'm like, okay, you know. And I you know, like, Okay, perfect. That's okay. We can talk about it later, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 30:05
good, because we can't they. You can't access the part of the brain that you need for problem solving when you're you have dysregulation going on, right? So that's really smart. That's smart of him, and that's great modeling on your part, because you've shown them, like, because when you're in that loop and not getting anywhere, it's because people are still flipped. There's still dysregulation going on, and so you really want to make sure, like, Okay, let's go take care of ourselves. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to go do some deep breathing, or I'm going to take a walk around the block. I'm going to help myself calm down so that we can solve this problem. So I'll be calling you back together later on, so that we can take a look at this and figure out what, what's going to make it useful, so we can all be in the car without fighting like, what's going to what's the solution for being in the car and making

Speaker 1 31:00
it Yeah, listen. Um, Casey, so my question is, or what I think I'm hearing you say, is that, when the comfort happens, let it cool by itself, and not too long after, come back to the conversation and break it down like, hey, because you know, if I ask them one more time, how do you feel, they're gonna walk away. Yeah. But well, and

Casey O'Roarty 31:32
I don't know, Giselle, I don't know that it's so important every single time to be like, Okay, let's talk about what just happened, right? Right? I think it's bigger than that. And you kind of lift up and out of that a little bit and just say, you know, so in the moment, I think one thing you can say in the moment is, like, sounds like, you guys are having a hard time. Do you need help? Or can you solve your problem? Okay, right? So that, and I let them know ahead of time, like, Hey you guys, I noticed that, you know, when you're kind of getting into it with each other, sometimes I step in, sometimes I don't. So what I'm going to practice is asking if you need help. Okay? And you can either say, yeah. I mean, because my kids, I'm like, oh my god, stop with the bickering. And they're like, Mom, the only person that has a problem is you, because they're just like, they're actually having fun with each other and but I can't stand it sounds like bickering. It's, I have to leave, you know, I have to leave the room, because it drives me nuts. But they're actually fine, yeah? Seriously. Like, oh, my God, you're killing me. So that's another thing too, in the moment, also in the moment, or outside of the moment. But then in the moment, you say, like, okay, you know this is this tool called boot 'em out. So looks like you guys are having a problem. You're welcome to continue arguing. You just have to go out on the back porch to do it

Unknown Speaker 33:04
right, not in front of me, please,

Unknown Speaker 33:06
right? Well, and

Unknown Speaker 33:07
that's the he's not here, yeah, just

Casey O'Roarty 33:10
please, you know, you can head out, because what happens? And this is something we talked about with my son when he was younger, because he would have these big emotional outbursts. And it was like, it was like, it was like a black hole, like he would have this emotion, and we'd all like, slowly get sucked in, and then everybody's and so I would talk to him about that. You know, you are welcome to be in your emotion. You are welcome to be so so sad, or so so mad, or so so whatever. You just can't do it in the middle of the living room, because in the middle of a living room, you pull us all in. And so what the follow up was he would have his emotional experience, and I would say, Hey, I see you having a hard time. Can you be in your emotion quietly? Or do you need to go to the other room, you know? And he was little and or like 10, you know, he'd be like, I'm not going to the other room and I and then the follow up is like, Well, can you walk to the other room on your own, or do you want me to walk with you there? And then, kindly and firmly, arm around the shoulder, let's go. So sometimes, you know, and you get to kind of be in the dance of seeing what your kids need in the moment. But sometimes it is appropriate to say you guys are welcome to bicker and welcome to argue. Can you please do it outside? Okay, I gotta do that when you're in the car. But

Speaker 1 34:33
no, no, that's great. No, like, very, very recently with him, I bought him a journal, awesome, a pen with an eraser, and because he's, you know, is having some challenges in school with his behavior and stuff. And we saw a movie recently that was about these kids that were writing in their journal, like, their experiences and stuff. And it was very impactful for him. And so I told him, like, Listen. Um, whenever you're angry, whenever you want to, you know, you have this notebook, and you don't have to share with me, you know, like, write it down. This is where you can put how you feel, what's bothering you don't have to, you know, because he doesn't like writing, you can just do drawings or just put words or whatever you want. Because I I'm trying to give him different, expose him to different.

Casey O'Roarty 35:25
Yeah, yeah. I think that's really smart. I think that's really smart for both your kids, right? Is just reminding them that there's lots of ways to express how they're feeling. And so again, coming back to what you want, which is like, there's no real way to get to, like, not have our kids argue. It's going to happen, right? It's going to happen. It sounds like you're you're really practicing staying out of it and keeping and taking care of you, which is you're a million steps ahead of a lot of people. That's awesome. And now a couple other things you can do, especially as you are in that calm body, like I said, is asking, do you need I notice you're having a hard time. Do you need help? So that's one. So it's stay out of it, or check in. Or you're welcome to argue, please do it outside,

Unknown Speaker 36:17
exactly right? And

Casey O'Roarty 36:19
you can let them know ahead of time. Like, Hey, be explicit. Like, this is what I'm going to start doing when you guys are arguing. And I just want to give you a heads up so you know what's coming and let them know and ask them to, like, is there any is there, like, another option that would be useful to you? What do you guys think? Right? So you're just kind of like, Hey, this is a thing. It happens the way it's happening isn't working for me. I'm looking for solutions, and here's what I'm going to start practicing.

Unknown Speaker 36:49
That's pretty helpful. Yeah. And then the

Casey O'Roarty 36:52
follow up conversation too, again, can sound like, like, Hey, do you want to process what went down earlier? I mean, if somebody's crying and has been, like, emotionally or physically hurt you definitely, I would definitely say, like, tell me about what went down. Like, even if the how do you feel thing is triggering. Like, tell me about how this all played out. Like, I'm curious about because I'm noticing your your sister's crying. What do you think she needs right now? What can we do to make this right, right. So supporting or your brother is crying. What do you think he needs right now? How can we make this right? So supporting them in the practice of making amends, and then ask them like, is this something we need to do? We need to tease this apart? Or can you guys do that with each other? Or are we good here, right?

Speaker 1 37:41
So, so you're, you're, you're, what I understand from what you're saying is, like, also have them figure it out between them too, yeah, not only me. Like, okay, how are you doing and how are you doing? No, no, no. Like, it sounds like you guys were having an argument and having some problems, and I hear you say, like, do you guys need my help? But then reflect on how their relationship was, maybe, you know,

Casey O'Roarty 38:12
yes, and if they get in a fight and then they're able to resolve it like it's over, right? You don't really need to always. But one thing, when you know, when you do notice those glorious moments later on, you might say, Hey, I noticed you guys were really getting into it earlier, and then everything kind of calmed down. What was, How did you solve that? What was your strategy? So you're highlighting for them, like, oh, you used tools. What were they? And then, you know, later on, couple days later, a week later, they're having a hard time, and the drop in becomes, sounds like you're having a hard time. I wonder, you know, Remember last week when you had an issue and you guys worked it out? I wonder if that is the same kind of solution you could come up with for this scenario, right? So you're using past success and bringing it in, yeah, but really, it's about having faith in them, because a lot of their bickering is like, when's mom going to show up? Right? I hear you, yeah. So you get to realize one and have do that special time with little Armando. Right. Armando, connect with sister. What is her name? Karina. Katrina. Karina, because as she gets older, even though our teenagers act like they don't want anything to do with us, they still relish that one on one time, even if they're not acting like it. So get that one, get that one on one time. Just keep it up, you know, and trust that they've got what they need.

Speaker 1 39:45
Yeah, it's it's pretty amazing when we then hear from their own mouth solving their or reflecting on their certain situations. Yeah, a lot of hard work, for sure,

Casey O'Roarty 40:03
oh yeah, and a lot of repetition and a lot of modeling. When my kids were younger, we called it making it right, you know, gotta make it right. Gotta make it right. And it was always prompted, and it was always prompted, and it's always really lovely these days when one of my kids, without any prompting, owns up to the other like, Oh, hey, sorry, sorry that I was being kind of a jerk earlier, right? Like, yes, because they mean it, you know. And they want to be in relationship with each other, and they want thing. My son, especially he's more like me, where it just feels good, When Everything Feels good. My daughter's a little bit like, I'm still pissed, so I'm going to make you feel bad. But yeah, it is. It's really special, but it does take a lot of practice, a lot of practice, a lot of repetition, a lot of modeling. But I have no doubt that your kids will grow into well adjusted, cooperative, contributing members of society. So,

Speaker 1 41:02
yay. This was super helpful. And, you know, I feel super blessed to be able to have this opportunity to be here with you and sharing my vulnerability, you know, and my challenges with being a healthy parent. Yeah, yes. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 41:21
I'm gonna, I'm gonna close it out by asking you the question I ask all my guests. Giselle, do you know what question it's gonna be?

Speaker 1 41:29
What does joyful courage mean to me? Yes, I'll try without not tearing up. Oh, well, um, I say, I would think that joyful courage is, is, is, is writing out the journey, you know, is being open to the ups and downs, and understanding that there is a meaning to everything that happens to us, and only when we show up and we lean into those challenges, is that is where we become courageous.

Casey O'Roarty 42:13
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much for that and for being here with me.

Unknown Speaker 42:19
Thank you so much. Casey,

Casey O'Roarty 42:26
oh, man, wasn't that so great. I'm so grateful to Giselle for coming on and sharing her challenge and being willing to be coached and play with me here in the podcast. Thank you again for listening. If you feel inspired and you haven't already, will you do me a favor? Head over to Apple podcasts and leave a review. Please. We're working so hard to stand out and make a big impact on families around the globe. Your review helps the joyful courage podcast be seen by even more parents. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Also follow joyful underscore courage on Instagram and Facebook. I love connecting with you on social media. Don't forget to come on over to joyful courage for parents of teens on Facebook, that's a private free group for parents to get support as well. I want to give a big shout out to my daughter Rowan, who does all of my show notes so that all the links that you want to see are there. Thank you for your help. Rowie and Chris Mann from pod shaper, who is my podcast editor, he works hard to make this show sound good for you each and every week. Thank you so much, Chris, all of you listeners, so grateful for you, so grateful for you. And don't forget, just like Giselle reminds us when you're in it, I want you to remember. Take a deep breath, follow it into your body, find that balcony seat and trust that everything's going to be okay. Have a beautiful week. My friends

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