Emily Roberts is on Talking Social Media and Kids

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Casey O'Roarty 0:00
Joy, joyful, courage, parenting podcast episode 31

so this week on the podcast, I have Emily Roberts joining me in a conversation about tweens and teens and social media, and right this moment, I have my 13 year old daughter standing here. Hi, Rowan. Hi, talking there. Hi, hi. Ro, hi. So Rowan just got on social media. I think you all know that I've been posting about it. We're on Instagram. How does it feel to have your mom following you on Instagram? Weird. Why is it weird?

Rowan O’Roarty 0:46
Because, like, it's my social life.

Casey O'Roarty 0:51
Your social life is completely encapsulated on Instagram. Well, like, because that's kind of sad. Well, like, a third of it is a third. Well, I

Rowan O’Roarty 0:59
mean, like, lot of my friends on Instagram,

Casey O'Roarty 1:02
I know, but do you think that that's like your social that's like the biggest social party that's happening in your life is Instagram? No, okay, good, because that'd be kind of sad. So tell me, or tell the listeners. So we created an agreement, yeah, when you were making that and thinking about making that, what were you thinking about? Because the way it went down was, I said, Oh, I'm kind of uncomfortable with all the time you're spending on your screen. And you were real quick to say, Fine, I'll type in agreement when I get home from school tomorrow. So what did you have in mind when you were doing that? What were you thinking about? I

Rowan O’Roarty 1:41
was thinking about when, when people would post last in the day, for one, but also like times that I wouldn't like mind not being on it. Okay,

Casey O'Roarty 1:55
so you were thinking about one, when would your friends be on it? Yeah, right. And two, when would you mind not being on it? And both of those things kind of align together to come up with the perfect agreement. Yeah, sweet. Does anything weird happen on Instagram? Sometimes, like, what? What's the weirdest thing that happens?

Rowan O’Roarty 2:18
I know, like, you get, like, matched with somebody,

Casey O'Roarty 2:21
yeah? Like, there's a site where people will write in and say, Oh, match me with this person, like people at your school, yeah,

Rowan O’Roarty 2:27
but like, you don't say matching at this person. You ask for a match, and then just match you with someone you think you look good with, but they don't know that they're two feet tall, apparently. Oh, well.

Casey O'Roarty 2:39
And isn't it kind of awkward, too. I mean, because you have to, I've seen it, and then you have to say yay or nay. Literally, yay or nay. You

Rowan O’Roarty 2:46
can just say, like, what the heck? That's what I say most of them.

Casey O'Roarty 2:51
So how's it been on Instagram? Do you think it's more it's added to your social life? Yeah, it's

Rowan O’Roarty 2:56
pretty chill.

Casey O'Roarty 2:56
Does it make you feel more connected to the kids at your school? Yeah? Like, really connected, or just like, now I know more about you. Do you find yourself talking more to people because you're on Instagram?

Rowan O’Roarty 3:07
Yeah? And also, like, I know when, like, there's like, a funny video that happens You

Casey O'Roarty 3:14
mean, like, Damn Daniel, back at it again with the white van. I love you, wrong. Okay, you're excused. Alright. So there you have it. A little, a little tidbit from the what? How old are you? 13 year old. So, yeah, we're going to talk about social media and what's happening online with our kids and all that good stuff with Emily Roberts guidance girl, and I'm so glad that she's back on the show. Let's say hey to Emily.

Hey there, Emily, welcome back to the podcast.

Emily Roberts 3:54
Thanks for having me

Casey O'Roarty 3:55
remind the listeners about who you are and the work you do.

Emily Roberts 3:59
I am the guidance girl. Well, that's the name I we've coined for my website. And I work with teenagers. I'm a psychotherapist. I work with teenagers, parents, young adults and young women. I also wrote a book called express yourself. And yeah, so that's pretty much part of it. I could go on, but I'll let you go ahead.

Casey O'Roarty 4:19
Well, yeah, and express yourself. So I have shared that title with so many parents, and continue to reference it also with my daughter. About chapter four. Go back and read chapter four. I say, if you want to get what you want, go read chapter four. There's more effective ways of doing it. So yeah, express yourself has become a huge resource for me and my family. So thank you for all that you do

Emily Roberts 4:46
and parent, and you can download it. Actually most of Chapter Four on my website. If you go to my website, there's a free download for that chapter for parents, yeah, and for and, you know, the thing is, is, I have a lot of adults who've read it too. Everyone can benefit from you. Yeah, being a little bit more mindful online these days, I think. And so that's really what it's about. It's not just for teens, it's for all of us. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 5:06
definitely. And so you reached out to me recently, a couple weeks ago, about having a conversation about today's topic, and I was so excited. The timing could not have been better. I've mentioned on the podcast and out in the world that my daughter turned 13 in January, and with that, the social media door has cracked open and she's on Instagram, which I got on Instagram early in the fall, just so I understood how good for you. Great. There we go. Tell me about the urgency that you were feeling about coming back on and having this conversation.

Emily Roberts 5:41
I have been having this conversation for a long time in smaller groups, even in parent talks that I've given, but I've just noticed that recently, it's become, not just recently, I've just seen it more and more every single day that so many parents want to be as involved as you are and aren't. Maybe it's because of their own they're just busy, or their kids are way, way more sort of looking technologically savvy than they are. There's just so much going on and so much scary stuff happening behind the screen and behind closed doors that we really need to talk about. And I wouldn't be sharing this with you if I didn't feel so passionate about helping these girls and boys not put themselves in danger. And parents may say, Okay, well, it's a phone, you know, it's just technology. But look at the media. I mean, you put any of these things, excuse me that you know, Google it right? Google, any of the Instagram, Snapchat, whatever. And there's usually something within the past 24 hours with a newsworthy story, something dangerous has happened. And I wouldn't be saying, like, oh, just watch out. I see it every day. There's risky behavior. You take a teen brain, you give it a phone, a phone that has access to the entire world on it. I mean, look, I got in trouble going to the mall. I don't know what I would have done with a cell phone. Oh, god, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 6:56
you know, yeah. Well, and you work, so you work a ton with young girls, and they're growing up in a world where social media is completely a part of their life. In that an article that you sent me that listeners, I will put in the show notes just today from Time magazine, American girls, how social media is disrupting the lives of teenagers. And she really talks about how, hey, you know, the kids that are 1314, 15, they're they've their image, their their life has been chronicled on their parents. That's a great point. Yeah, so they're like, so Immer, you know, it's just been such a natural part of their well, natural quote, part of their life, and now they're at an age where it's becoming ever more available to you. So when in your work, what's showing up with?

Emily Roberts 7:53
Well, here's a few things you bring up such a good point that I'm glad that you mentioned, which is, before a kid is even two or three years old. These days, they already have a social media presence. They already have a footprint, as if you will. Yeah, and so parents often don't understand is, I mean, we think we understand this, but let's be honest, how many times have you gone back and deleted posts from when your daughter was a little bit younger, or your son was a little bit younger? We express our frustration. We express a lot of things. We ask questions through our friends online across the country, across the globe, if you will, and their questions or their statements about our kids. So we're actually creating their digital footprint that they can go back to just like a baby book, except it's digital and it's virtual and and they can see it for the rest of their lives. So there's already that piece, which is for parents to be a lot more mindful, maybe, of what they're posting. I had a girl come in who was being made fun of because her mom posted on Facebook that her little girl was a woman and meaning she started her period, and the boy's mom next door saw that, and me, I think maybe have left it open on the computer. And so the kid came on the bus the next day and announced that this young woman was bleeding. And so it begins, you know, it's like, that's not just a standalone case. It's the fact that, how often do we leave our computers or our cell phones open that our kids can see, even if they're not on these social media profiles? Right? That's a that's another topic, but it's important for parents to be mindful of what they're posting when it comes to their kids or themselves. You know, if you're out of town, please don't post a picture of your vacation. If you know, even though you know all your friends, why don't you wait till you get home? You're also telling people that you're not home, right? You feel the urge to have to share this with the world. Why don't you just enjoy your vacation? You know,

Casey O'Roarty 9:38
yeah, oh yeah. I am completely guilty of that.

Emily Roberts 9:41
We look, we all are. We all are, to some degree, but it's the what's the function for the post, right? And I asked kids the same thing, what's the function for this? Is to say, hey, we're on vacation. Or is it to say, and we're having a great time? Or say, hey, we had the house monitored. Someone's staying there. Don't rob us, you know, like, right? Or is it just to get. Tension. I mean, that's a whole side note, but the truth is, is, we could all be a little bit more mindful of why we're on social media and how much time are we spending with our families, for

Casey O'Roarty 10:07
sure, for sure, and considering that parents are the first model for this behavior, you know, checking ourself at the door as well when it gets and I, you know, I'm totally guilty of this, and we have lots of conversations when we talk about boundaries with screen use, and I'm really transparent and open with the kids when they're like, Well, you do it, yeah, and that's

Emily Roberts 10:31
great. I think the best thing that we can do is be accountable in that way, like you're right. I do, and sometimes I need you to run. I meet too, because it can be really addicting. I have my cell phone is next to my desk or next to my chair in my office, and I also have a plug there to take their cell phones to charge them, so it's not next to them. I find that to be a very good tool, just in case anyone wants a phone out of their kids hands. Offer to charge it, but I sometimes have to have my phone on just in case there's an emergency, and so if I look over and I'm looking away from them, I'll say, I'm so sorry. Give me just a second, just so I can model the appropriate behavior for not being like, Yeah, I'm listening. Because I'm not listening if I'm looking at my phone, that's BS, you know, and kids know it, and adults know it. I call my friends out when they do it, too. It's so frustrating. So I at least try and model that kind of behavior just like you do, which is what we're supposed to do. We're not perfect, right,

Casey O'Roarty 11:20
right? And it is part, you know. And the bottom line is, it is a part of life, of life right now, for sure, and who knows how it will evolve? Ah, and so as a parent, okay, well, before I get into that, so what is showing up? So we're talking social media and teens and kind of the dark underbelly, which I think a lot of people, anyone who watches the news, has heard some of the stories, but you're really in the trenches with these girls in your office and talking to them about the experiences that they are having and engaging in. What are some of the things that are showing up,

Emily Roberts 11:58
and some and a lot of boys, too. And one of the things that I the reason I reached out to you again, is I didn't forget about this. I think I wanted to forget about this because it was so frustrating, and I felt just like I couldn't do anything about it. If you go on Instagram and you search the hashtag or even on Tumblr. But Instagram is one that I look up more cutting for Mia, which is the, which is the bulimia, they people who are promoting bulimia, Gopher Mia, or Anna, which is for anorexia, you have millions and millions. I'm not kidding, probably 7 million.

Casey O'Roarty 12:33
I looked, I looked, and I was like, and I got really sucked in, because it was like, unbelievable, right?

Emily Roberts 12:41
And I have kids who use that as their support, who use that to maintain their their weight or to maintain their behaviors and make them feel like that's their community of people they this is not just a one child I've ever worked with. This is across the board, therapists in other states. And I have talked about this, kids and I have talked about this, it's not just them. One of my girls had 14,000 followers. A kid, she was 14. I was like, how did you do that? I was like, Hey, give me your tips.

Casey O'Roarty 13:10
What's wrong here? For real,

Emily Roberts 13:12
when she was posting suicidal and depressing, but literally suicidal quotes and things about death. Finally, after about a year of working together, she stopped that account and now has like, you know, only 100 or something followers, because it was so hard for her, she was like, I feel like I have to stay depressed to have friends, or I feel like I have to to get attention, because the likes were just so, so important to me. The likes are important to all of us, but it's this beyond likes. This is beyond instant gratification. The scariest part is, if you put your that's those particular phrases in there, no matter what the kid is suffering with or the adult, your access you're getting access to people. You're getting access to information to reinforce the negative behaviors. Unlike Google, because these are you saw yourself. These are images that are frightening, and kids are kids, and adults are using them as almost their therapy. The same thing goes with some of these other apps that are out there. They're using them to get advice and to speak their mind and express themselves, really, in places where it's very they're being very vulnerable and talking about subjects that are vulnerable, as well as asking complete strangers,

Casey O'Roarty 14:21
yeah, do you think that it also, the word that's coming to mind is normalizing? So if I'm a kid who's having a really hard time, and I'm, you know, perhaps cutting or thinking about it, and then I get on there and see how many other people this is, you know, is a part of their world. Then, then maybe I don't feel so different. Then maybe I don't feel so bad about it. Maybe I don't feel so do you think that that's is that something

Emily Roberts 14:48
that's a piece to it? Certainly, there's a difference, though, between normalizing and reinforcing with a brain that is developing and so easily influenced. I think normalizing is more like, See, you're not the only one. There's a lot of people out there, but giving them. Access to how to do it. If you get if you have 400 likes on one photo of your cuts, what is the kid going to want to do on some level, on a subconscious level, even think about that? I mean, our kids brains are going through a massive developmental process between the ages of 12 and 19. They are more easily swayed. We all work. I mean, this isn't just put on a seat belt. You're like, why? You know what I mean? Well, because it's safe, but you're so impulsive, and now it's like, please pause before you post. Kids are like, why? Well, because something bad could really happen.

Casey O'Roarty 15:33
Yeah. Well, and as a parent, it can be really hard not to give in to that fear that can show up when we think about our kids running wild on the World Wide Web, and we should, and I know, in my experience and where I I've coached and worked with parents like you can see the rigidity showing up in their body. And it becomes, we become really hard headed and really hard lined and really dictator and you know, as a 42 year old, thinking back to being a teenager, so grateful that social media was not a part of my situation, but it also knowing that I project like, well, what would I have done? And I am not the same as my daughter, but I and I was, you know, I was a little bit of a mischief maker, and so, you know, I forget that I'm looking at a whole separate human being who really is growing up in a really different family, a different home, a different experience. And she'll call me out on it and say, you know, Mama, I'm not. You like I'm not. Why do you Why don't you trust me? Why do you think that? Because

Emily Roberts 16:39
I don't trust her friends. The thing is, it's not, yeah, it's not about what we were doing at her age. It's not about what we were not doing at her age. The truth of the matter is, what most, a majority of children are doing these days, and they're still children, we don't give them their driver's license. Why? Because they haven't taken their driver's ed tests yet. They don't legally have access to that. And I may, you know, look kids generally like coming and talking to me like a lot of teenagers do, I'm pretty real with them, like, look, I trust you in a lot of situations, it's not that I don't trust you,

but what I don't trust is half the people, if not more, online, including possibly some of your friends. It's not to say they're not good people, but we don't know what's going to happen given the circumstances. And if you look, I've seen it, you know, I look through their profiles with them. I look at their friend stuff. I'm like, wow, that's a pretty risky picture to be posting. And they're like, Yeah, I know she's really asking for attention or Yeah, but she's, you know, she's got a great body so she can do it. I'm like, You guys are 14 years old. Who's who are looking at these things, right? But that's what I'm saying. Going back to your point is, it's not that I don't trust your daughter, it's that the people online and the things that she can be exposed to are insidious. I mean, let's be honest. Look Look at look at what we're we're seeing on the news, but look at what's on her feed. Look at what her friends are doing, look at who she goes to school with. That's really how it that's really what it is. Even if you know all the parents are they looking at their kids social media? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 18:08
for sure. And you know, but at the same time it is, it's part of our experience right now. And so like, Where does you know? Where

Emily Roberts 18:19
do we draw the line? Right, right? So

Casey O'Roarty 18:20
it's either it's, it doesn't have to be either we say yes or we say no, right, absolutely. You know, the conversation for us was really, you know, the door is going to crack open. And just because you're 13, which you know, three years ago, 13 seemed like a smart, logical number, because all of the websites say you must be 13. And I'd be like, Look, you have to be 13. She'd say, Oh, Mom, you do not. They don't know. I'm like, I know, but it's that, what it says on the website. So we're just gonna go with 13, which was really frustrating to her, but whatever she got over it was,

Emily Roberts 18:57
it was great for you, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 18:59
And now she's 13 and so, but it's, you know, but I've also said that this doesn't mean that now every social media is, oh no, is open to you. That's not what it's about. Let's play with Instagram, you know, let's and I follow um. Our agreement is that I don't like or or post or um comment on her stuff, and I have to ask before I tag her in any of my things, which I think is really respectful. I

Emily Roberts 19:29
think that's great. I think it's a great way that we they should be doing that with their friends as well, right? I mean, that's a great model. That's such a good thing to do. I think all parents should actually start doing that on Facebook as well. And it's

Casey O'Roarty 19:39
amazing to me when I go through her followers to see how many of the kids and it's all you know we it's all kids she knows, or kids she goes to school with. She might not know them all really well, but she knows them. And it's amazing to me how many public profiles there are. Yes. Like that just blows my mind

Emily Roberts 20:01
Exactly. And in 13 is the age that they but how do you have to verify that? All you have to do is put enough? You know what I mean, that kid has a phone not, yeah, it's, there's nothing that's checking your ID because they don't even have an ID. It's, there's so many kids and adults on there who are over 13 or under 13. The interesting thing is, it sounds like you and your daughter have created a really good conversation around social media. She knows she can have it. She knows she can have it with some there's boundaries in place. She can't have everything. She knows you're gonna look through it. Occasionally, there's this beautiful thing called paranoia. And when kids know the parents are watching, they tend to behave a bit better. Even if they're great kids. They know that someone might catch them or they might be watching right? And that's a good thing. It doesn't mean we don't trust them. It just means that some days you might check her phone, some days you might not, and so we behave the way that we would like our parents or our grandparents to see us, right? We don't want to be doing things on there that would embarrass our family or ourselves. There's something that happens, though, with a lot of kids, which is, they have more than one social media website. So there's this thing I need parents to know about, and it's called Photo vaults. Photo vaults is an app that's out there that looks like a calculator, or you can make it look like another app, and it's hidden. It's an app that's hidden behind another app. It's done strategically to hide apps from people who don't need to see them. So for example, if she has not your daughter, but let's say another, somebody else has a another Instagram account, or has an Instagram or Snapchat account, they can hide that. And I found this on one of my kids phones. Her mom told me that she they deleted Snapchat because she was doing inappropriate things on there. Well, she's in session. And I was like, Hey, your Snapchat just popped up. Boom, she got caught.

Casey O'Roarty 21:43
I mean,

Emily Roberts 21:45
I wasn't like, I'm telling your mom. I was like, let's talk about this a little bit more. But the truth is, there are these vaults. There are these things that kids do because they want to have that it may not be that they're doing bad stuff. It really may not. But what's the function for hiding this stuff from their their parents? Right? What is the reason that they go the links to hide all that stuff? Usually there's inappropriate stuff that their friends or they are doing on there, yeah, and it wouldn't have, like, over a million downloads if it didn't, you know, work, yeah, and effective, right, right? So the thing is, is I would really encourage parents to be curious, to look at the phones, to not worry about getting in a fight that one day. I mean, let's be mindful the fact that they do deserve privacy in some regard, but this is their what will happen to a kid if this stuff gets out there? I sat next to a superintendent on a plane recently, and they just had a sexting scandal in there. Was really, yeah, but I mean, the irony, I'm sitting there and talking to him about this, right? And I was like, that's interesting. I just actually did an interview on the news about your school. But moving on, it's true. That's exactly what happened. And the thing is, he's like, but I mean, what this is, parents were upset because we, you know, we suspended the kids that were sharing the photos. I'm like, Yeah, this is what happens. Parents are mad at themselves because their kids are doing like, they're sharing the naked photos, or they're sharing the the bullying posts, and they're creating this stuff. I don't that would be mortifying to happen to any of my kids, right? That I work with. I would be mortifying to their families, yeah, and it stays on their records. It makes teachers not prefer them. It also can really influence it, whether they get into college or not. So I know I'm going a little bit beyond the grain here, but that's where it starts. It starts on these sites, these It does, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 23:30
well, and recently, and it's, you know, and we so Amy Lang, birds and bees and kids ladies, been on the podcast a couple times and when, and she talks about, you know, staying in conversation, brief regular conversations about sexual development with our kids. I think the same is true around technology to regular, brief conversations. You know, I was telling my daughter about that you were coming on and what we were going to talk about and and I mentioned to her, I said about the cutting, the hashtag cutting, and Rowan said, You know what she said? I don't know how I found it, but I saw it too, mom. I saw that hashtag, and I saw these things come up, and I was so sad for those people, for those kids. And it was really it was the cool part about it was, it was a really organic conversation about something that's real and relevant for some kids. And then she went on to tell me about, you know, kids that she knows at her school, that she wonders about. And it was just really, it was a really that's awesome, yeah. And I think that we forget too when we have these conversations about things that are so uncomfortable for us as parents, because they just are that, in that, in those conversations, we're also building relationship. We're sharing values, you know, trust and like, yes, like, I can handle this. I can handle this conversation.

Emily Roberts 24:58
I you know, I feel this. Same way in a lot of conversations that I have because I've been building trust with I mean, whether it be one of my friends, my family, I have certain family that are in that particular age group, but also the kids I work with, I'll say, you know, look, this is really uncomfortable for me to talk about too. Like, I want you to know that it makes me as scared too, like I'm completely genuine, because I think that's what kids need to see. I don't know the answer, right? I'm not 100% sure on this. I'm not and no one really is like, I'm not 100% sure if you should text this person back or not. Let's go over some of the ideas and maybe what I would do in your shoes. But we're all, we all need to have those small, organic conversations with them without being afraid of the consequences. And if something comes up or she's like, Mom, I saw this too. You're right. What an awesome conversation that you can have about, okay, so you know, what do you do if you see that? Or how do you talk to them? Because kids are really the first responders these days. They're telling their friends these scary things, whether it be about hurting themselves or someone hurting them, or sexualization. And so for us to have these conversations with them, and just being curious, like, So has anyone at school done that? Or maybe she brings it up organically. That's beautiful, in my opinion,

Casey O'Roarty 26:08
right? And that was something that Amy was, we were talking about on the podcast around sexual behavior. Is not like, Have you ever or what have you done, but really putting it out, like one step further out, like, I know people, or do you know people? Or have you heard about people doing that because it's a safer space to step into for them. And the other, the funny thing, the other thing that happens too, is so I recently sent, I emailed my daughter an article. Well, the article, one of the, one of the many articles about this 13 year old girl who was killed, yes, that she became friends with and on social media, and the response I got from my daughter, she was so annoyed, and she was like, Mom, stop reading about All these worst case scenarios. And so bottom line is, media exists, and the worst stories that are out there are the ones that sell. And so they're right in our face. They're in our feed, right? And so there's again, back to that balance piece, because not all kids, and it's hard to remember with all of that in our face, right? Not all kids are being stalked or groomed or absolutely situations, no, but

Emily Roberts 27:27
they know someone that is, I mean. But I'm going to be really honest, there's a reason that we see all this stuff. You are 100% correct when you say, I actually get, I have to get off Facebook a lot of times when people are reposting things, because it just my anxiety goes up, you know what I mean? And I'm mindful of that. And I like that. She's I like that. She stood up to kind of and said that because it's, she's right. This isn't me, Mom, I can what else do I have to do to show you that I'm doing the right thing? I'm doing what you ask right. And she's right. She's right. If she's not doing things that are risky, we're actually just putting our anxiety onto them, and she's responding in a very healthy way, actually, Mom, I don't want to see this right now. I think that's, I think that's a really unfortunately, you know, she's annoyed, and she can't say it in a different way, but that's, she's right. We're that your daughter's not doing that, but the thing that we as adults need to do is we need to remember that it's not probably your kid. So don't put your anxiety on them about this, but just put it in the vault, because it may not be your kid, but if you continue to be seeing these stories over and over again, maybe it's a light bulb moment to be like, hey, you know what? I actually think I need to take up your phone for a second, not because you do anything wrong, but I just want to make sure the settings are correct. If you're having anxiety about this, there's a reason. Yeah, don't trust your parents. Don't test the mama bear instinct. You know what I mean? The truth is, there are it may not be her. There could be kids that she's friends with that are having those cutting pictures, and you as a parent actually feel responsible because it's on the phone that you guys are paying for, right? It literally is your phone. And that's one thing that you know. I have to say, it's it's a privilege, it's not a right. So if a kid sends a naked picture of themselves, or gets a naked picture of themselves, or even a picture that's bullying, it's on your phone. As an adult, you then can be in trouble for that legally, yeah? Because it's, especially if it's a child, it's then becomes pornographic. Or, excuse me, child porn, yeah, child porn. And I'm not, I'm pretty Yeah, I'm pretty sure that no one's not going to sue you for that. But the fact is, it's on the phone, and that's how they're able to catch people in these texting and texting scandals, kids who have been who have received it, because you can track this stuff, right?

Casey O'Roarty 29:32
Well, so hopefully nobody catches on that. The real reason I liked podcast is because I have all these great guests come on and validate me and help me and my own parenting well,

Emily Roberts 29:40
and and your daughter, you know, the thing is, is she did, let's, let's keep in mind that what she did was really appropriate, mom. I'm really trying to show you the best I can that I'm using this I'm talking to you about it. You keep sending me this stuff, and, hey, it's a little annoying right now, because I, I, I'm not doing anything wrong. Like she's saying to you, I'm not doing stuff wrong. And it sounds to me like she. Come to you if she sees something online that's a little or on one of her social media or feeds that is uncomfortable, because she now knows that you're kind of watching. Yeah, she did. She's she's doing a good job. It sounds like, yeah, okay, good, oh, she'll be happy. So you could tell her that I validated her

Casey O'Roarty 30:15
too. Okay, she'll like that. Well, okay, and so now I'm going to switch gears a little bit, because we are on Instagram, and I do get to check in on her little page and everything. And so one thing that's showing up that is, see, you know, is I, well, I know it's not necessarily tame, maybe surface it is, but you could see how quickly it could become really painful is the way that they rate each other. You know, I'm talking about, yeah, yeah. Like, rate nine, rate 10, even when it's not even, even when it's not even a post that says, rate me, or what's my rating? Like, nothing's asked the kids are just really, like, it's part of the language that they use. Like, Oh, I love this picture. Rate 10, or I love this picture, there's another acronym that's, like, broke BM BMS. And I was like, what is that? So I googled that on, you know, I Googled BMS. What is that? Broke my scale.

Emily Roberts 31:14
Yeah, on Snapchat, is what they do this a lot too. And on other and a lot of these sites, they do it. It's, they did this too, when we were growing up, a little bit like, but it wasn't put all over, you know, the locker Bay, or whatever you you know what I mean. It wasn't like, put over where everyone can see. And I also, whenever I see stuff like that, I ask questions to kids. I'm just like, so what's this about? Like, even if I do know, I'm like, What do you because I want to ask them what they think it's about. It could be completely different. Oh, that's just a number that they that people are putting up there, or it's, yeah, that really sucks. I got a low rating or a high rating. I want to hear what their thoughts are about it, because that's their reality. Now, the other thing I try and talk about is, gosh, wouldn't it feel bad, though, if someone's parents saw that? Or if, like, I don't know, one of your teachers saw that you were rating people. Or how might that feel if you were that person? I don't do it in a way that's like, how are you feeling about this? You know, all therapeutically, because they'd look at me and start laughing, or they would take me seriously. But the truth is, is these are questions that they don't think about in the moment, right? And, and the fact that all your friends have all this time to be rating other people, wow, really, their life is consumed with online stuff, huh? How's that gonna feel when they try and put their academic resume together for college? Yeah? Interesting. So

Casey O'Roarty 32:27
talking a little bit more, because I want to know so, you know, bottom line is, she's on Instagram, right? Our kids are on social media, you know, ideally, we as parents, you know you as listeners, listening with kids that are, you know, whether it's an iPod or a phone or whatever online the kids are on there, and we want, we just want to know, like I want to know she does musically. That's another one that's new.

Emily Roberts 32:59
Whisper, kick, yeah, with Snapchat

Casey O'Roarty 33:03
million, but even, but, I mean, I the comp, so then, so now, okay, so I'm listening to this podcast, and I'm thinking, hmm, yeah, how much do I know? And I want to go approach my my teen, about it, my tween. What are some suggestions that you have? And a couple have already come up. But what are some suggestions around the angle to take when we want to start having conversations about the dangers that exist without putting our teens, you know, without the big eye rolls, or, you know what, everyone just deal with the eye rolls. Okay, well, of course. I mean, I personally and but we want without putting them into, like, a defense, place where we want to open question conversation rather than close well,

Emily Roberts 33:46
okay, so here's the thing, kids are gonna naturally, just like you and I did this. Well, so and so's parents don't do this. Or so and so's parents, yeah, well, they're not our family. You know what? I mean, it's, let's just, let's get all the what ifs out of the way before we even have this conversation, you know, with the kid. Have these as a parent, what's your goal for here? What is, what is the goal for this conversation you're gonna have 25 more of them. Ask yourself, what's the goal? Is my goal to go online and see everything that they're doing, or go through their phone and see who they're talking to? If so, let's, let's reign in. Let's just come back for a second. Really awesome, but, but, no, I don't even know if you'd want all that that might be too overwhelming. So it could, it could be this, you, my goal is to have a conversation where I feel like my daughter or my son kind of gets a little bit more of an understanding about the dangers of the apps that they're using. Okay, so in the in my book, I have this particular, I guess, what we would call it chapter, little little technique here that's called, it's like the Ask technique. So what it is, it's asking, showing and knowing. So here's what I do. And I do this with my teens all the time. I'm like, okay, so I heard about this app. Can you show me what it is and tell me a little bit about it? I'm curious, because a lot of adults are actually starting to get it. Now. This is the trend, by the way. We. Are we follow our kids now on what they're doing. So like, so some of my friends are on this, can you show me how it works and like, what are the pros and cons of this without being judgmental when they show me that how it works, right? So if you're like, This is ridiculous. Like, why are they rating each other? Oh my gosh. How do they have time to look at 15 second snaps or whatever? I try my best to seriously bite my tongue and ask more leading questions. Like, okay, so, like, what would be something that that I would use this for? Like, how would I have them show me it? Because it actually gives them a sense of control over the conversation. Kids love that. So do we as an adult, as adults, right? But it also gives them an opportunity to show you how they're using it. They can't be like, Oh, let me go through and delete all these bad pictures. It's like, Oh, shoot. Let me show you how I'm viewing this and and they do. It gives you, as a parent, an opportunity to see how they might actually be interacting. Can you give me an example of how you might do this? You know, it's, it's kind of awesome. And I see kids being like, a little bit more excited when their parents are involved in it, right? It's not to say that you're not going to be like, Oh my gosh, this is completely inappropriate. Hold that conversation for later. Let's just get through this piece and then come back to it, you know, after you've thought about it, one conversation at a time, one thing at a time. If you think it's a horrible idea that your kids on, you know, whisper or ask fm or whatever, can we talk about that another time you just gained some brownie points at them, big time for sitting there and watching them look at it right and showing you how to do it. Let's, let's come back and have the conversation about why you're scared out of your mind for them to have that maybe you know 24 hours later or something, after you've pulled it together. Because you're gaining trust. You're gaining you're gaining so much when you ask your kids what they're doing versus telling them what you hear in the news or what other kids are doing, ask

Casey O'Roarty 36:44
Yeah, and so don't assume Yeah. Something that I always say to parents too is the most powerful tool we have, is the relationship that we've built. And I'm hearing you. I'm hearing you say that when we go into these conversations, you know, really the quality that should be guiding us is curiosity.

Emily Roberts 37:01
It did not kill the cat. It did not kill the cat. I'm telling you well,

Casey O'Roarty 37:05
about like, what can I catch you doing? Or how can I manipulate? It's just about honest curiosity.

Emily Roberts 37:13
And the next conversation you can have, or another conversation is, hey, you know, I'm concerned not with you, but like, I've been reading this stuff on the news, and some of my friends have been talking about it, about, you know, this cutting thing, or what do you do if one of your friends posts something like that? Do you like, know what to do? Like, I don't know what I would do in that situation. Actually. Have you seen this? If they look at you and they roll your eyes, you'd be like, No. I mean, I'm really trying to have a conversation. I'm not telling you can't use the social media. I'm just saying I'm concerned, because I feel like you may come across this at some point. Do you know what to do if you do? Do you know why people are doing that? Do you have questions for me that I can help talk to you about? You know, these are, these are things like you said, to have organic conversations about and use what you see in the news, not every day, but occasionally. You know, like I saw this other thing, can you tell me about how kids are using kids are using it these days? Yeah, like you

Casey O'Roarty 38:04
heard about it. Is it coming up in your conversations? And I'm not hearing you, Emily, I want to be really clear with listeners too. I'm not hearing like, just, you know, let them be on every social media that they want, right? Oh, no. Well, let

Emily Roberts 38:19
me, yeah, let's back up first. Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 38:20
let's so let's go to that questions like, how do we gently ease in with them?

Emily Roberts 38:26
Well, the question that you asked before was about, you know, how to have the conversation with these ones that they already have on their phone? So let's rewind the tape for a second, or not, like, not literally, but you know what I mean, let's say we can go back and say, You know what, wait. I've been seeing all this stuff on social media or about social media, and I have some concerns, not about you as a kid. I think you're a great kid. You've been showing me that you've been really responsible lately, and we're so proud of you. I just have some concerns. So before you get an app, if I could do anything for parents, if I could say, here's the guide, here's what it would be before you give your kid a cell phone or an iPad or whatever it is, you have the Apple ID password. They can't download anything, even if it's free without that. So they have to earn that. You have to approve that. And parents used to do that, and now, you know, they got a lot of parents got sick of and I do too. I would get sick of asking, you know, what's the password like? If I can do this, let's be honest, it's annoying, but the truth is, it keeps you in the know. Well, why don't you show me what that app does? Okay, so how can I, how can I see that you're going to be responsible with this? Is there a way that I can check in on it? These are questions that are just like giving your kid a car. You don't just give them the keys. We have to test it out first. We have to have them take the test. You know? We have to have them practice. They have to show good make good decisions, right? We're not just saying, hey, take this huge vehicle and run with it. So starting out with one or two things at a time, and it doesn't mean as a parent, you're hovering 100% of the time or reading through their messages. That's not fair to them or you, let's be honest. Yeah.

Yeah, right. What are you gonna go to dinner with your friends and talk all about what your kids are doing online? That makes for a great conversation. I would be rolling my eyes, right? So it's more about like, look, let's find a balance that works for parents and works for the kids too. If you see that they're making poor decisions, that's a great opportunity to have a conversation about what, because some kids don't know. Like, the truth is, I work with a lot of kids who are like, I had no idea that my parents could see that, or that other people could share that? Yeah, I thought that Snapchat was all, you know, 15 seconds. I'm like, No, I can take a picture of it, yeah, yeah, you know. And they don't know that, and their parents don't know that. So what I mean is, let's give, let's give them one thing at a time to prove their capacity to handle this, right? Everything all at once. No, I can't handle you. We can't handle this as adults, right, right? And if they show mastery in that, they show that they're making good decisions, they show that their schoolwork is getting done and that they're not completely immersed in their phones, we can give them an opportunity to earn another one. Yeah, and it really is behaviorally effective. If you give a child a phone or any sort of device with a million different bells and whistles, what

Casey O'Roarty 41:01
are they going to do? Yeah, play their phone, yeah, 100% of

Emily Roberts 41:05
the time. So why don't we do this? Why don't we reinforce it behaviorally, just like they when we they're growing up. When they were little ones, what'd you do? Just give them, you know, everything that they needed in their room, or they earn the toys. Or did they earn the ability to pay with the four year old toys when they were three and a half? You know what

Casey O'Roarty 41:21
I mean? Yeah, yeah. We waited for the developmental appropriateness of it for sure, and

Emily Roberts 41:26
you took away things when they were using them inappropriately. Because, why? Because, guess what, behaviorally, it's not effective, right? I wouldn't give a five year old or a 15 year old their phone back if they threw it at me. That gets taken away. And in our brains, we need that natural consequence to occur, and you don't always get that natural consequence online, right?

Casey O'Roarty 41:45
Oh gosh, no, it's all screwed up online. I think so.

Emily Roberts 41:49
Let's go back to the biological basis of what works behavioral reinforcement doesn't mean that. Does not mean punishment, by the way, it means, honey, you're showing me that you can't handle all this because your schoolwork is not getting done. I'm going to have to take your phone up for a little bit. You know, you can choose if you want me to take it now or you want me to take it in 25 minutes. You can finish your conversation, but you're not finishing your homework, and so I need to take it up until you can at least show me that you finished most of it. Well,

Casey O'Roarty 42:13
yeah, because the phone, the screen is a privilege, it's not a right. Thank you,

Emily Roberts 42:17
exactly. And we have to help them manage it. And

Casey O'Roarty 42:21
also, I think something that I try to reinforce, too with people that I work with is it's not always that they're being naughty, it's that they lack skills. Of course they do, yeah, and so just assuming that taking something away is then going to help your child, you know, increase their study habits. It'll it might be a piece of it, but there also could be some skill building happening around organization and managing heavy loads of homework or organization and managing housework and like, keep in mind, yeah, I think that's really important too. What are some ground rules if you're, if you're gonna, if you were gonna talk about, okay, we're doing it. We're entering into this world of screens, individual screens. What would you say are some of the bigger ground rules that are kind of the non negotiables? Well, going back

Emily Roberts 43:18
really quickly, what you said about the organizational piece. I think that's really important, because you're right in a lot of ways, but one thing I do know that kids love. They will hate you for a minute, sorry to say, but they do like the availability of having their phone close to them, but not too close, because the distractibility. Here's what happens as adults. You know this too. If my phone is on silent and still vibrates. It's, I'm going to just be distracted. I'm going to look over at it, I'm going to see it, and it's going to take me two to four seconds longer to get back on task, right? Same with kids. So if we're noticing that they are distracted, it doesn't mean we're taking away their phone for the rest of the evening, because that is Get ready for a meltdown. No, it's not. That's not the function. The function is, hey, we got to put this away for a second so we can have a conversation about this. If I notice that the kids on their phone over and over and over again, there's and they're not getting their schoolwork done, let me take that away for a second to see what's really going on here, right? Because it could be the phone, but it could be something bigger, right? Like it could be something that they really are having trouble with executive functioning, and we want to help them. It's not a punishment? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 44:21
well, and it makes sense, because executive functioning is what is being deep in development at the same Exactly. They're not going to have executive functioning that is in mastery mode, because that's not where their brain is at,

Emily Roberts 44:35
right? And so we don't want to look at this as a tool for punishment. And I think that's what, going back to your question that you just asked, Is this isn't a punishment. We do need our kids to have phones. We do so we can get in touch with them. It's not like giving them a quarter of I don't even know how much the pay phone is these days, 50 cents.

Casey O'Roarty 44:50
Are there you get any pay phones in the world anymore?

Emily Roberts 44:52
I mean, there are New York, but yes, but yeah, and I have not seen people use them. So it's not like that's the answer either. The thing is, is we. To develop a healthy relationship with it, and help them develop a healthy relationship with it. And if we see that our kids are, you know, at the table, or if they're in front of their grandparents, or even they're in front of the kids that they're babysitting and they're on the phone, this is a problem, right? They're not paying attention. They're not doing the things that they need to do to get the job done, it's also disrespectful. We have to go back to really, what is respect and what disrespect? Whether it be on the phone, whether it be in conversations with each other, you know, if your kid is mouthing off to you, that's disrespectful. You know, you actually have a consequence for that. Same is true on how they're using their phones in front of you, or how they're using their phones not in front of you, right?

Casey O'Roarty 45:36
So what? So, going back to that last question, so what are, what would you say are, kind of, some, you know, two or three ground rules going into this? Well,

Emily Roberts 45:47
I think there's got to be, that's a great question. Two or three. I don't know if I can think of two or 323. No, no, I'll, I will. Well, because, in

Casey O'Roarty 45:56
the spirit of, you know, I mean, some people saw online that I posted the the procession of the agreement that my daughter and I just came with came to around screen use, and it was a back and forth. And that's

Emily Roberts 46:12
what I love about it. You have to do that. I think for parents giving this is what kids tell me. My mom and dad made it this agreement, or I'm not allowed to do this, or they did this. And I always try and say, Okay, well, can you offer a suggestion, you know, or I bring the family then, like, let's have a conversation about this, versus it being all or nothing. The world is not all or nothing, so giving them some agency to talk about what they want actually makes them more likely to use the phones and use social media appropriately, because they they feel a little bit more entitled, not in a bad way, like, this is my phone. I earned this. Yeah, exactly. So it doesn't mean that you have to take away the phone at a certain hour. Maybe you do, though, because for a lot of kids, they cannot have the phone in the room. Some kids can show mastery and do that. I prefer it beyond the room, just because who doesn't, in some ways, it's a distraction, and it as you and I were talking about, it may not be your daughter's on the phone or your son's on the phone. It could be their friends are reaching out to them and they're having to be the therapist, or they're having to be available for them. And this happens so much so I think having a ground rule of, look, let's come up with a good time to, like, kind of turn your phone in or put it outside your room. Let's also come up with a good way for us to have a conversation. If you feel like it's getting too much, I'm not going to take the phone away from you, because necessarily. But when, when I'm noticing that the phone's controlling you, or that you feel like your friends are just really intense. Do you want me to just take the phone away for a little bit? It sounds crazy, but kids sometimes really enjoy that. Yeah, I, like I said, before I take the phone away for usually an hour, unless I don't take it away, I ask them if they want to put it over there. Yeah, near me. And usually they're like, Okay, can you see If so and so text me, if they did, can you help me respond? Because I really don't want to answer them again. Or, oh gosh, how many times that person texts me, you can see the relief, and it may be more of a conversation to have after they've had the phone for a while, but if you notice that they are not making eye contact anymore, or that they can't they can't finish a sentence without looking at their phone or feeling like they need to be on their phone, that is an opportunity, and it's actually, I would say, it's your right as a parent, to say, Hey, we gotta revisit this contract, because I Don't know who you are without the phone attached, literally to your hand. Well, and that's

Casey O'Roarty 48:24
exactly what happened for us, is I just noticed myself on her case a lot. We didn't really have an established plan. And finally, one night, I said, Okay, we've got to come up with an agreement around screen time, because I'm feeling really uncomfortable, and she looked at me, and she said, I'll write one up tomorrow after school, because she was too we are. She was tired of it, yeah, and we're in the practice in our house. This is the way we roll, like we make agreements, we post them in our house, like we've always done this. So she was really quick, like, Hey, listen, just let me write something up. And then, you know, she did, and I noticed that it was, you know, some finer details needed to be fleshed out. And so I wrote a counter offer, and which she agreed to, except for one piece. And, you know, and now we're good. And it's good until it's not right. It's good until one of us feels uncomfortable and wants to say, hey, let's make some tweaks. This is how I'm feeling. And so having an agreement is the non negotiable, like we will exactly boundaries how to get there is a joint problem solving experience. That's

Emily Roberts 49:33
but that's the most beautiful thing, because guess what happens in life? It's not one size fits all. It's also not one teacher says this, and it goes throughout the rest of high school. It's, let's have a conversation about it, because that's really the best skill we can be giving our kids to is it's okay to disagree you're it's okay if I'm not correct 100% of the time. I know it seems like such an ego hit, but it's true, like you're right. Maybe you do need the phone a little bit longer, and I'm sorry I didn't think. Out the fact that your friends, that's the only time you and your friends who don't have class together anymore get to talk, right? You don't know until they bring it up. Well, yeah, and that

Casey O'Roarty 50:07
was like I would in my ideal world, she comes home and, you know, has a good solid chunk of time with no phone before she gets on or no screen. And but the reality is, when she walks in the door, she wants to because she isn't on it on at home or at school, because it's an iPod and it's not she needs Wi Fi, and so when she So, part of our agreement is for 15 minutes while you eat your snack. When you get home, that's free reign for the screen, and then it gets turned off and you do, you know, your chore and your homework until you know, until you're done, and then so that one of the you know, for her, because it was kind of like that, made it easier for her to say, okay, because I gave a little, you know, and I'm controlling, and I know I'm not the only controlling, micromanaging mother on The planet, so which is not a helpful trait when raising a teen. Well,

Emily Roberts 51:04
wait a second, but the thing is, it actually is. Here's why you've got to have you've got to be able to show her that she can develop some healthy boundaries around this, because the parents who don't do that their kids have very little self control when it comes to turning off the phone or putting it away to focus. And we all need someone to take the phone up for a little bit or give us some look, there's movie theaters now that say they'll kick you out if you're on your phone, because it's distracting to other people if you even if you're texting, why? Because people don't have self control, and it bothers other people. So guess what? You're even training her to be a great citizen, a digital citizen in the world when she's an adult as well. So it's like, look, these things are these things are important. The one thing I want parents to also think about is, if your kids huffing and puffing like, No, Mom, I need an hour instead of being like, No, you don't you. Which a lot of parents, they're not going to say it like that, but in their heads, they probably are. Let's just ask them, like, Okay, I'm having a hard time understanding this. I feel like you see your friends at school, most kids are gonna say, Mom, I only have like, one class with Justine, and I never get to see her. And like, this is the time that we talk, aka text. Or if you really ask, like, can you help me understand? Like, what's going on here? I just, I need to understand, so maybe I can stretch the limits a little bit. Yeah, that is awesome, because an

Casey O'Roarty 52:18
invitation, that's an invitation to conversation, rather than it is the highway,

Emily Roberts 52:23
and it's not assuming and what parents and what kids and what all of us do in the world. Really, we all assume we don't ask. We assume she's doing maybe the best stuff on there or the worst stuff on there. We assume she's chatting with her friends about something meaningless. But the truth is, it's if we ask our kids, are smart, they are sometimes they make poor decisions, but they are smart kids. They want to be able to communicate with their friends. They don't. Maybe they'll say, I need to talk to so. And so, because she's going through a breakup, or her parents are getting divorced, or whatever the reason is, and then you, as a parent, you're like, oh my gosh, I totally wish I would have asked before. I decided to assume that she was using it for for a power for a power trip. They're probably not, you know? And so even though their brains are developing, let's give an offer. Give them an opportunity to help, just like you guys did, to help create the contract, to help create the conversation like it's not just your way or the highway. And I do feel like healthy paranoia is important, though she knows you're you look, you talk about this for for a living. You know, you are a parenting coach and guide, and so she's pretty aware that she's probably not gonna be able to get away with much. That's even better, yeah, because she's not going to make decisions that are going to screw her over later in life. For lack of better words, it's

Casey O'Roarty 53:34
true. It's just not her temperament either, right? Like, that's the other thing. We have very different temperaments. Well, okay, now kind of switching gears. Is privacy a privilege?

Emily Roberts 53:46
Depends on what it is. I think that, you know, it depends on the age, and I think it depends on your kid. Really, I have some kids who've made some very poor decisions online, and their parents still seem to think that their phone is their phone, when in reality, I disagree. I think that if your child is sending pictures or engaging in any sort of sexting or texting thing, things that could get them in trouble or the other person in trouble under the age of 17, even though it's a healthy way, sometimes, if you think about it, sometimes better than the other things they could be doing. But the truth is, is it lasts forever, and that's the part that scares me the most. So I feel like if they're doing inappropriate things, what you and your child discuss is inappropriate, because that's another conversation, then we really need to revisit what what kind of use their cell phone should have if they've been caught doing something where it's bullying or they are being disrespectful to other people online, whether it be bullying or just making mean or hurtful comments, that's another thing we have, something called respect and technology. How do you are being respectful online is a very important piece to that too, because it's not just about them, it's about their family, or they're just, you know, are they showing respect to their family and their values if they're making fun of the. People, even if that means forwarding something about another girl or boy, if they're if you find that, then that's something that that's no longer private anymore, because they're not making it private. I think if it's a conversation between her and her best friend and you know whatever, you don't have to look at all of this. But if things begin to crop up right where you start to notice your parents are talking about it, or you see these things on your child's phone? No, you're saving them at some point. Yeah, I the last thing I want, and I think I told you about this earlier in our conversation, was, before we were on the podcast, was if your child is doing something that you think could be harmful for them in the future, or now, you have every right to take away the phone. I don't care about being their friend anymore, and I am usually their friend. I'm like, Look, I care about you too much for you to be using your phone to be sending or it's not like they're sending it because they really want to. Usually there's pressure behind it. I care about you too much. I care about your future too much, and I care about the fact that you're going to feel really bad in 24 to 48 hours when those pictures go around the school. So sorry. I'm now, but I have to tell your parents about this. Sorry, not sorry, sorry. I'm really not sorry. You'll pick me someday. And the truth is, it's not like they need to be punished. Don't punish it. I think it depends on, you know, where they're doing this. When parents punish that behavior, it's shame. They're already feeling embarrassed and shamed. Now they feel like they have no one to talk to. And that creates a lot of the that creates quite a bit of depression. It creates this hopelessness. So what I think parents seem to do is say, Look, we're we're just concerned to help me understand what's going on here. No one's going to get in trouble, necessarily, unless somebody does need to get in trouble, because that's actually a legal piece. But we need to hear the kid out first, and they'll respect you more. They'll come to you more. And I know that's a whole side note of scary, scary stuff, but it's happening, and so that's no more privacy when that happens. It's not like their parents are taking off the door like they used to when we were growing up, but it really is like they cannot have that privacy if they're using it inappropriately in ways that could hurt themselves, right?

Casey O'Roarty 57:01
Yes, yes, thank you. And I have one last question that I've been asking all of my guests that doesn't have anything to do with social media, or maybe you can spin it so that it does. You know I can. What does joyful courage mean to you? Emily,

Emily Roberts 57:17
means being brave and not afraid to speak your mind and to speak your truth. So I think that goes for parents too. Don't be afraid of if your kid has a tantrum or gets mad at you, especially when your intentions are good. And for me, it means being unafraid and unapologetic about speaking the truth so I can help others. You know, if it offends people. I'm so sorry. That's not my intention. My intention is to, is to express myself. Yeah, and you know, if

Casey O'Roarty 57:48
you offend I always, I'm ever more like, Wow. You were offended by that. Get curious about that.

Emily Roberts 57:56
Because you know what the thing is, I always, if I ever offend anyone, I've noticed as I've gotten older, I like, wow, my intention was never to do that. I'm really and the truth is, I'm really sorry if it did. Yeah, I'm really sorry if it did. I hope that we can move beyond this, because what are my intentions, right, to try and help you. And I think that goes for so many people. You know, if I love what you just said, Get curious, right? Why? Why did that offend you?

Casey O'Roarty 58:19
Yeah, because we're so we get so uncomfortable. And I think when we are uncomfortable, that morphs, that doesn't feel like it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel powerful, it doesn't feel like we have any Oh, but actually, but then if we can move into blame, if we can move into defense, if we can move into anger, then it's like, okay, I have something to hang on to, but uncomfortable. Whenever

Emily Roberts 58:43
I'm uncomfortable, I've kind of done this thing lately where I'll, like, be mindful, and I'll pause for a second. Why is this getting under my skin? Or why does this make me uncomfortable and it gives me so much more power? Because I'm like, oh, because this is something, this is a new concept for me, or Ooh, because that does not that scares me a little bit, and I think that's why I'm getting comfortable, right? Comfortable, right? But as long as I can try to figure out why, rather than just just, you know, getting offended or getting upset or getting frustrated with somebody, I man, does my energy shift, you know what I mean? Wow, like, I feel like, so I feel like, more inclined to want to talk to the person too, because I'm like, can you tell me a little bit more about that? This is very interesting. I'm curious because I'm totally having a reaction right now. It's not necessarily you, you know, it's my stuff. So, yeah, but I think I really love your I love your podcast, and I love all your listeners, and I just hope that if they have any questions, to reach out to me or you. And you know, we want to help them. I want to help their kids. I want them to feel more empowered, not afraid, you know, don't be afraid by the news again. Yeah, that's scary stuff, but be informed by it, right? You know, yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 59:48
definitely. And you know, I'm gonna have listeners. I'll have links to get you in touch with Emily and her website. And where else are you on social media you're speaking of. Everywhere, everywhere.

Emily Roberts 1:00:01
No, I'm on Twitter, at guidance girl, M, E, M, and Instagram and Facebook. I think they're all the same. The Tumblr page, I think I don't usually go on there, but a lot of my some of my teens, have showed me how to use it, which is a very interesting conversation. I think

Casey O'Roarty 1:00:21
we laughed about this last time you were on the show, like, I don't know how many moms are on Tumblr. Yeah, I could be wrong. I'm making an assumption there. But

Emily Roberts 1:00:29
well, and the truth is, is, you know, we I actually created that page because they wanted to know more about it, and I had two of the girls that were having some trouble with Tumblr helped me out with it. And so it was a learning experience for both of us. You know, they were, they were like, Whoa, you're an idiot when it comes to this. No, they're, you know, they're like, Wow, this old person. But it helped me see what they were doing, too. And like we said before, I think, you know, asking our kids to show us these things gives them a sense of pride too. Like, this is my generation. I know how to do this. And also then it's helping us feel more connected to them. So ask, don't assume,

Casey O'Roarty 1:01:05
yeah, yeah, I had a little side story, but I'll keep it to myself, and maybe you can send me a couple of articles too that I can link to in the show notes. That would be great. Just like I said, like

Emily Roberts 1:01:17
I said, if they go to my website, the guidance girl.com, they can download chapter four, which is most of chapter four, which is the digital drama and texting troubles, Chapter of my book. And I actually have had many adults also write me and tell me how helpful that book was. That chapter, excuse me, was for them, because a lot of us just need to pause before we post sometimes to see if it's really a good idea. Yes, yes, myself included, I wouldn't have written this book if it wasn't, you know, something that I had struggled with too. So no one's no one's getting off the hook here and saying that we've all done things that we're always proud of, but we could be a little bit more mindful of what we're doing online. And I hope that parents and their their teens can do the same thing.

Casey O'Roarty 1:01:59
Thank you so much for coming back to the show. Thank

Emily Roberts 1:02:02
you for having me.

Casey O'Roarty 1:02:03
I'm so excited, and we'll have you on again. Okay, great. I look forward to it. Yay. Thanks, Emily. Thank you. Emily Roberts guidance girl, she's the bomb. I love talking to her. We always talk for so long and the conversation is rich and feels like there's more that we can always be saying. So if you enjoyed that conversation, please, please, please, feel free to send me some feedback. Casey at joyful courage.com, is a great place to get a hold of me. I promise I will answer your email. Also, the live in love with joyful courage. Facebook page is a great place to join in conversation with the like minded joyful courage community. We talk about podcasts, we talk about parenting, we post articles and tips and challenges and celebrations and all that good stuff. And I want you there too. So join us. Search for live and love with joyful courage on Facebook, also I'm on Instagram, joyful underscore courage and Twitter and Pinterest, although I'm not a very good pinner. Anyway, there's lots of places you can find me, and I'm really excited to be heading to Boise this weekend. I'm doing a teaching parenting, the positive discipline way training for new parent educators. I was just in Albuquerque last weekend doing that same training, spreading the good word of supporting parents and families on this amazing journey. And I'm a coach, man, if you like what you hear and you think, hey, you know what? I'd love to work one on one with Casey. Shoot me an email. Head to my website. Joyful courage.com/coaching. For more information. All right. Big, gigantic. Love to you all this week. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing, thank you for downloading. I love you, and I'm so glad that you're finding this offer helpful. All right, my friends, here we go into March. Big. Love you.

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