Eps 461: Guilt and shame – The Art of Connected Parenting, part 2

Episode 461

Join Alanna Beebe, Julietta Skoog, & Casey O’Roarty, the three founders of Sproutable, as we dig deeper into finding the why of the work we do.  This week, we’re talking about guilt, shame, and self-doubt.  All parents feel guilt, shame, and self-doubt about aspects of their parenting, even us as ‘experts’ – especially us!  Today, all three of us are sharing stories of times we’ve felt (or still feel) guilt, shame, and self-doubt around our parenting.  

Parenting is a place where those hard feelings often pop up.  There are a lot of layers to this, and the power of hindsight can leave us feeling regretful about things we did or didn’t do.  What do we do with these crappy feelings?  What can we do in the moment when we feel shame creeping up on us? 

Guilt, shame, and self-doubt have a lot to do with fear, and it’s powerful to stop yourself when you’re feeling the guilt and shame creep up to ask yourself, “What am I afraid of right now?”  We touch on staying present and the importance of digging into your values.  

The second half of the episode, we ponder why it matters how we show up for our kids when we feel scared and concerned.  How do we hold space for our kids when stuff gets real?  Bringing our guilt and shame into tough conversations just  forces our experience onto them – that’s how we create baggage.  Our stuff gets in the way of their learning.  

So, what do we do? It’s a big identity shift to become a parent – how do we know what the right thing is to do?  The sweet spot comes from moving away from an idea of “the right thing to do” and following your heart, staying connected & curious, and keeping your firm boundaries.  

Join us next week when we’re back to talk about perspective shifting and embracing imperfection.

Guest Description

Alanna Beebe is a certified Positive Discipline Educator. She has 15+ yrs in public health & early learning communications, and equity & social justice policy development. She is a current board member of FoxBox, helping families in long-term hospital stays. She is a former board member for WACAP (now HoltInternational.org), international and domestic adoption and foster placement agency.

Julietta Skoog is a Certified Positive Discipline Advanced Trainer with an Ed.S Degree in School Psychology and a Masters Degree in School Counseling with over 20 years of experience helping families in schools and homes. She draws from her real life practical experience working with thousands of students with a variety of needs and her own three children to parent coaching, bringing a unique ability to translate research, child development and Positive Discipline principles into everyday parenting solutions. Her popular keynote speeches, classes, and workshops have been described as rejuvenating, motivating, and inspiring.

Casey O’Roarty, M.Ed, is a facilitator of personal growth and development. For the last 15 years, her work has encouraged parents to discover the purpose of their journey, and provided them with tools and a shift of mindset that has allowed them to deepen their relationship with themselves and their families. Casey is a Positive Discipline Lead Trainer and Coach. She hosts the Joyful Courage podcast, parenting summits, live and online classes, and individual coaching. Her book, Joyful Courage: Calming the Drama and Taking Control of YOUR Parenting Journey was published in May 2019. Casey lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband, and two teenagers.

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Takeaways from the show

  • All parents feel guilt, shame, and self-doubt sometimes 
  • The power of hindsight 
  • Digging deeper to examine your values 
  • Society’s “supposed to’s” 
  • “It’s much easier for me to see my child be different and make waves, but it’s much harder for me to be different and make waves.” 
  • Parenting is a journey with lots of opportunities to keep practicing 
  • The way our kid’s behavior reflects on us 
  • Accepting and advocating for our children for who they are 
  • Why we like getting calls from school 
  • Leaving room for kids to have their own perspective 
  • “Tell me more” 
  • Why we avoid labeling our kids 
  • Doubting your parenting intuition 
  • Finding the answers for your self-doubt 
  • Moving from stopping behaviors to building missing skills 
  • Worthiness & value are innate

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kid, moment, shame, talk, intuition, parenting, practice, self doubt, feel, guilt, work, conversation, child, story, parents, alana, move, littles, part, experience
Casey O'Roarty, Alanna Beebe, Julietta Skoog

Casey O'Roarty 00:03
Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast a place for information and inspiration on the parenting journey. Just wanted to give you a heads up that from now until the 11th of March, the podcast is being taken over, we've got a limited series happening, you're going to hear about it in just a moment, the art of connected parenting so still the same deep value that you get every Monday here on the joyful coach podcast, but we will be sharing the limited series art of connected parenting for the next little while. And the good news is this limited series is good for all parents, young kids all the way through the teen years. So check it out and enjoy

Casey O'Roarty 00:57
Hey, everybody, welcome back to our super special podcast series, The Art of connected parenting, where we the founders of Sproutsocial are coming together to talk about the power of up leveling how we think about and understand our role and relationship with our kids and with ourselves. Really, just to remind you of who we are and Casey over 30 hosts of the joyful courage podcast positive discipline lead trainer mom adolescent Lead here at sprouted ball with me are Alana Beebe, the managing director, brilliant thoughtful mama, and positive discipline parent educator, and my friend Julieta Skoog. Also a mom, early years lead and positive discipline trainer, I just have to say we are also so much more. Okay. We are so excited to continue to dig into this work with all of you listeners and with each other. Thank you so much for being here and tuning in. Last week, we talked a bit about how, when we're intentional about our parenting, it is an opportunity for personal evolution as well as a cultural revolution. We shared the ways we are actively re parenting ourselves and spoke about the importance of our personal stories, and how our childhood stories translate to how we show up in our own parenting, the ongoing loop of interpersonal relating, right? Make sure you check that out if you haven't already. This week, we're talking about guilt, shame, and self doubt good times real for all of us. Right. So let's just start right there. How has guilt and shame and self doubt? How's that shown up for you all, on your journey of parenting? Well,

Julietta Skoog 02:41
how has it not is the real question, Casey, when did it not show and does it not show up. And they're also different to me. I think the self doubt, as I shared last week immediately showed up the minute I brought my baby home and had a colicky baby and suddenly what I thought was going to come naturally to soothe and care for felt so shaky, which of course it does, as in brand new parent. So self doubt kind of comes along with the baby I feel like or however a child comes into your life. It's that instinct in terms of just keeping them not only alive, but I mean, just the weight of responsibility. It's so major. So that's the part I think for self doubt that has always just lived in and in those waters. But I think as an if you both feel this way, but as a parent, educator, and parent coach, or here at sprouted ball, I get the extra layer of maybe some shame that can grow when my kids were being kids being totally human beings. And just having those extra set of eyes on me, I think is when it can show up when it has the potential to grow. And the petri dish is when I notice it. For you, Alana? Yeah, I

Alanna Beebe 04:08
think that there is the internal process for me. And then there's the external process. And the internal process, I don't have much self doubt, like that's kind of how I live in this world, which is a strange thing. And however, I have allowed to self doubt when it comes in relationship with other people outside of myself, you know what I mean? As in how am I supposed to show up in this situation? So this is where I want to like bring it to the external. So I think that there's this external idea that we all live within wherever we live in the world, whatever community or culture or family we live in, of how we're supposed to show up how kids are supposed to show up how adults are supposed to show up how we're supposed to show up as a parent, how we're supposed to show up as a teacher or whatever, that there's like this role to fill. And a lot of these expectations are just Unknown. Trouble, you know, so for me that you know, just like the baseline of it is, if we talk about, you know, a kid having a tantrum or something, right? The role where we live is we need to stop that tantrum, right? As some of the adult in the situation, you should be stopping as the teacher or the parent or whatever, it's your job to stop that child's tantrum. But really, the reframe right, is that it's okay. Right. So I think it comes into play when something happens when someone's you know, behavior or something comes up, and it's against what is expected, against what's expected by society against what we expected. Any of that, you know, and that's where that rub starts to hit. And so then maybe it rolls into guilt and, or shame or self doubt, or Oh, my gosh, I should have done better, I could have done this differently. And that's, you know, kind of this level of shame and guilt and self doubt. And then I think there's this deeper shame that some of us have, when we know, we messed up, like for ourselves, right? When we really are like, Oh, I do not like how I showed up in that situation, I never want to do that. Again, I don't want to feel that again. And that level of shame is so deep. And that's something that we all feel at some point. And I think parenting for me has been the place that I've like felt at the most, you know,

Julietta Skoog 06:19
that moment when our head hits the pillow at night? Yep. Like, oh, my Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 06:23
or even like just that prompted me to think about a recent interaction that I had with my daughter and her being like, yeah, when you said that, like I did a really great repair. After a very judgmental conversation, I'm doing air quotes, for those of you that are listening, because it wasn't a conversation, it was me sharing what I thought, and then repairing it and owning it. And her response being like, yeah, that was really hurtful and irritating. And I'm so glad that she can articulate her experience of me. And it took a while for me to move through knowing explicitly from her what her experience was of me, right. And I think that was a shame place just because of how deep it felt. And then also, you know, for me, this storyline that my listeners are very familiar with. So I'll just briefly but like, you know, my sweet girl is my teacher, you know, and I teased her about like, Thank God for you, I wouldn't have any content, you know, her just kind of taking us into this foreign land of taking the reins and deciding, you know, what didn't work for her and what didn't fit for her and how, like foreign it felt. And then that sparking my own again from last week, my own inner conditioning around where worthiness comes from. And then my own question of and I still sit inside of this sometimes, like, Did I show up the right way for her? Should I have leaned in a little bit more? Will she 10 years from now be like, you know, Mom, you really dropped the ball. Like, you could have done this, you could have done that? I don't think that'll happen. And when it does happen, I'm going to be like, do you remember yourself at 16? But all the layers that we all go through that we all move through?

Julietta Skoog 08:21
Well, and that gift of hindsight. And so we do you know, in the moment, right, again, the power I should have the the power of hindsight is so you know, when we look back, and we're like, oh, well, of course, you know, or should I, here's what I wish you would have done or what I wish I would have done or what I wish you would have done in those scenarios. And I was just percolating noticing that with my kids being younger, that I noticed in myself when the shame drops, you know, because we've gotten that feedback of like, what you're not going to tuck me in the threat that I gave, and I was like, No, I didn't mean that. Oh, you took it like that and not get to have a birthday. Yeah, what I took birthdays away for the rest of their life. That was good. John was like, thanks, I really appreciate that master. Now clean up, you know how I get into a little bit of a wiggle of just really trying to turn the tables on them or manipulate myself out of it or justify, you know, that's my MO that's where I go to around the idea of mistakes,

Casey O'Roarty 09:32
wheeling, did you even hear me do that in my story when I was like 10 years from now and she's like, why didn't you do that? And I'm going to serve it right back to her like, don't you remember who

Julietta Skoog 09:40
you were? What else was what else? Yeah, but there's those places to where you know, as it creeps in the also reflexes for what to do with that, you know, and I appreciate a lot of your connection between self doubt of the externalizing and internalizing because I think there's a A healthy amount of reflective questioning within our parenting skills of like, what's the right move here? You know, and to be able to actually pause? And maybe not doubt, but shift into that awareness. What does this moment need right now? What is the move as opposed to just being like an immediate, you know, and so kind of the flip side of self doubt is actually that pause that reflection, that presence to just be in the moment and you know, make a decision or try a tool or lean into the all the tools, we talked about the connection, the relationship, that curiosity, and whether it's, we're gonna look back and be like, Well, that didn't work, see, you know, well, then that's it. But like, if we've shown up with authenticity in that moment, and with that good faith in that moment, the storyline changes well, and

Casey O'Roarty 10:48
I think the presence piece that you were just talking about to also allows us to recognize, like for me, of course, Rowan dropping out of high school to preserve her mental health. I mean, any parents gonna kind of freak out, right? Like, we're all gonna freak out about that I had this extra piece around her worth, not in consciousness, but it was a part inside of me, like, what does this mean about her worth, and her value, because that was so drilled in for me growing up, education was connected to my worth, you mean, how everyone else valued her? Well, yes. And also my own, like I had to navigate my own y had to recognize that when I recognize that, of course, there's this added layer, because this is what was held and served to me. And I don't believe this, right, like, but I had to recognize that it had this little part in the experience, I was having to be able to release that, put that to the side and just be with, you know, my emotions, where I was feeling her what she was feeling, and be her advocate, and be your advocate. Yes. Well,

Alanna Beebe 12:02
and I think that when we kind of drop into that, like fear piece of this, right, and when we're really in that, like scared moment, sometimes we latch on to things that we quote, unquote, value to like, kind of tether us, you know, so the reason I'm upset about this is because right for Rowan is because you like Roland needs to graduate high school and get an education to be worth something in this society. And that's what people do, right? It's because you're in this fear state. So you want to connect it to something that makes sense. You can't write any other possibilities, like you're looking and you're stuck, right? But then when you like, come out of the fear state, and you actually are able to go into your values a little bit deeper, right? Like problem solving, and you're in that prefrontal cortex, that part of your brain, that you actually can get deeper, even within yourself, right. And it opens up so much more possibility. And I think that there's this interesting thing, where we think that we have these values, but sometimes it's just our fear state values. And when we really dig in, it's deeper. And this is actually where we lie. It's just because it's reinforced constantly, every day, as we're going through life that it should live outside here, instead of in here. Yeah. So

Casey O'Roarty 13:08
do you guys think that, like if we're experiencing self doubt, experiencing guilt and shame, that there is a beneficial exploration of so what am I afraid of right now? Absolutely.

Alanna Beebe 13:19
Yeah, yeah. So for me, the story that I wanted to bring up in, you know, talking about guilt and shame and self doubt, was my child's gender journey. So my child was born, male transitioned female at three, and now is moving on this gender journey into you know, non binary, and it has been a journey, and it will continue to be a journey, and that's where we are. But in context to this, what you are, you know, kind of framing and all of this is, how are we supposed to be in society? And, you know, I think the like a lot of parents kind of go through this process. And I went through this process, it was fast for me, but this process of, will my child still be loved? Right?

Alanna Beebe 14:06
Will they find love? Will they find connection? How are they going to see themselves fit in and feel connected to their community, into their friends in the greater society, and there can be a lot of fear in that story, you know, it's an easier one for me to have for my child to be different, and make waves. But it's much harder for me to be the one that's different and making waves. Oh,

Julietta Skoog 14:28
Jenny, say that again, Alana, that was so good.

Alanna Beebe 14:33
It's much easier for me to see my child different and making waves but it's much harder for me to be the one doing it. So I can live in their individuality. And I can see the beauty that they are in their diversity and their difference from me. And then when I have to show up and talk about my kid, every time I talk about my kid, I'm advocating for gender equality. I mean, that's just like when you use the pronouns, they them or someone knows my child was male at birth, and I'm saying she her in that moment, it's automatically that conversation, there's no way to avoid it. I might be just trying to talk about going soccer, you know? Simple, right? But I have to have that conversation. It then becomes my own work showing up in society and talking to people, and be like, Yep, this is something that I'm embracing. And this is my story. Are you going to ask me about it to have to talk about it? Now this is drop off, oh, my god, like, how much do I really want to dig into it? You know, and it's because, you know, I'm dealing with my own guilt, or shame, or whatever about being that person that's going to bring that up, you know, make that way, make that person uncomfortable. Don't make that person uncomfortable. Always make sure everyone's comfortable. Always make sure everyone's happy and safe. And, you know, some of this is, you know, growing up as a female in society. Some of this is just my own upbringing from my family. But that is a story that lives within me that I'm constantly counteracting in this guilt and shame cycle, you know, and so I will avoid it. Sometimes I will just avoid using pronouns at all. Sometimes they're just like, eSpin, because I just do not want to deal with it. Because I have to all of the time. You know, it's always something I'm bearing. So for me, that's where it lies. And I get this practice with Espen. And this longer gender journey, because they haven't just been like, Oh, I'm transgender. And there we are, and we get to like, move forward. It's just been this like, long, ongoing change process. I'm like, Okay, here we are, again, and I get to show up again, using different pronouns or having different conversation, and I get to just keep practicing it over and over and over again, you know, it's a

Julietta Skoog 16:34
practice over and over again, with these. However, it's showing up in the story, right, that we get to notice it again, and again, I got it with my third. It was like, okay, third kid. They're all so different. Here's the one that I get the call from the school and the principal is saying, Well, I've never had to call you about the havior before except when she called me because violent did an April Fool's Day prank and I was in the middle of a casino in Las Vegas. How embarrassing is that when the principal called you? And I was literally tell you, I I'm so sorry. I am here for a conference. But other than that, I mean garden, disregard the slot machine. But that idea where it is a journey. I mean, we get all these opportunities to practice when it's going to show up. We haven't ever just wiped our hands of it. Once I got over the colicky stage, it was like okay, now here it's showing up again an opportunity. And I a lot I mean, just what you said around how you know, we have no problem with our kids doing but how it reflects on us is that extra piece that's coming up so when we got the call from the principal, with our youngest around behavior, it was that chance to notice recognize the irony of the messaging. Oh, I should have it together by the third kid. This is what I'm teaching and practicing. So I should want to have all the answers which as we know, the people that are truly in our spreadable community now all of our great messy stories and they love them and I tell them all the time, but that piece of also with my husband being a PE teacher and it happening in PE all that trigger that act is really activation right it's like all these things you messed up but having that chance to really practice I actually I sat up I was like yes, she did. This is something that we are totally practicing thank you so much. We get to join with her even more and be her advocate in that way so it's certainly not you know an outward gender but it is the way she moves She's aggressive she's physical she is does not fit in the box of the girls who play kitty cat at recess. Yeah, someone cuts her in line she's gonna body check them just like she does at hockey and you know, so also that part around feeling the messages, you know of what she should be and say no, actually is the advocate work that I get to do the acceptance that every single child has their own true essence and the Emir story with ro n. So

Casey O'Roarty 19:09
yes, I have to tell the story on this one now, because your story reminded me and you're involved in this, okay? Because I love also like when we can stand inside of that for ourselves. I love how like the people that are coming to us like, Okay, what's up with your kid? And we're like, Yup. I love it. Like, it's like, Oh, I was driving to Juliana's, right, five years ago. And we had just had this whole conversation around how walk into any bathroom in any high school in America and in the handicap stall is a circle of kids passing around a nicotine vape. Right. You know, is all these curiosities? Had she partaken? Like, tell me more about it. We had a whole conversation. And a couple days later, I'm driving to your house Julieta And a call comes in from the high school and I answered and sure enough, it's the dean of students saying, well, we got a hot tip that Rowan was vaping in the bathroom. I was like, oh, did you catch her? He's like, Well, no, it's a tip. And I was like, Oh, this is great. I'm so glad that this is coming up. He's like, Oh, my God, we have full conversations around vaping around the table. And it just felt so good. And the absence of shame and guilt, because I was like, Yeah, dude. I know, we talked about this big

Julietta Skoog 20:33
zactly that part of owning it. Yeah, talking about it, saying, Great, thank you so much. We're working on this. This is what actually we've been practicing at home, too. So we'll keep doing what we're doing. We'll keep tightening up. Let's open that conversation. Thanks for letting us all be here. For her. Yeah. For

Casey O'Roarty 20:54
Leona. Yeah, so and now moving into. So we talked a little bit about like how fear can feed in our own fear. But let's talk now a little bit about why is it so important to pay attention to what's going on for us, because ultimately, and I talk about this a lot with my people of teens, how we all want them to talk to us and share with us and come to us. And you got to know what you're getting into, if that's really what you want. Because if you create that space, and it feels safe, they will. And what they come to you with and what they share with you is a lot to hold, like scared and worried is going to come up has already come up for everybody. I mean, come on, on the parenting journey, it's not going to go anywhere, right things will happen, where we will feel fear and worry. Why does it matter how we show up for our kids in those moments? Right? When maybe they've come to us? Or we've heard secondhand? Something that is really concerning, right? Why is the space we hold or the way that we hold it important? Would you say?

Alanna Beebe 22:01
I think for me, when we show up in a really uncomfortable space like that. And we're bringing up our own stories of shame or guilt. We're managing the conversation and on almost driving it towards a place that we want our kid to be. Right. It's been like a manipulation, you know, and the story, you know, even if we use curiosity questions to ask more about it, are we asking curiosity questions to get them to tell us that they were guilty? Right, to fess up? Like, is that really where we're trying to go? What is the intention behind like, what is this? And so what's really helpful for me is actually to say out loud, either for myself or my kid, you know, this is what's coming up for me, is how I'm feeling in this. And then allowing the process for them to have their own process, write their own perspective, it opens up the learning for them to you know, and it opens up like this possibility of where it could go, because maybe we just want them to tell us that they're actually guilty. So then we can come down and be like, less what you should have done, you know, so we can feel better. And then we'd like, did my job. Right now, I don't feel guilty anymore. Because I came in and told them what they should have done. You know, like,

Julietta Skoog 23:09
Great did my job, right?

Casey O'Roarty 23:11
I love the intention behind curiosity, right? Like, how do you think that made the other person feel?

Alanna Beebe 23:16

Casey O'Roarty 23:19
Versus huh, Wow, I wonder what the experience was of, you know, your friend, when that happens? What signals Did they give you? How did you read that?

Alanna Beebe 23:29
Exactly? I like my conversation with Espen is to flip it on the teacher is, you know, how do you think the teacher was feeling in that moment? What do you think was going on for the teacher, when you know, the kids were doing this, or this was happening, or blah, blah, blah. And then we like talk about, like, what could help the teacher or what could help friends or whatever. But you know, it's just like that processing of their experience, like we talked about in the last one, I want to bring in that. Like, we all have our own story and our own perspective and our own reality that we live in. So when we force our reality on our kids, they don't get to have their own experience anymore, you know. And so if we're coming from guilt, and shame, and blame or whatever, then we're forcing our experience onto them. And then they get to walk with that guilt and shame in their life. And that's the baggage, that's the baggage, you know,

Julietta Skoog 24:17
we talk about in positive discipline, the definition of enabling of getting in the way of our child and their life experiences and minimizing their actual experiences, or that they talk about the consequences of their actions, but just more of that, like minimizing the experience for them. And so I think about that, too, like when we bring in our stuff, it actually gets in the way of their pure learning in that moment. But the idea that fear and worry to me is also that's a healthy signal. That's it like, Hey, thanks for giving me a little gut check here. That's interesting. Notice, ground do the breath pause. Tell me more.

Casey O'Roarty 25:01
Tell me more.

Julietta Skoog 25:02
Tell me more that that in your backpack. And when I think about the littles also, just because I don't think it lands as well, for the teenagers, when you just rephrase back to them a couple of their words, you know, that just keeps them going and keeps them going and keeps them going. And then, you know, when there's you stumble upon those moments to with your kid where you're like, Well, fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time, what if I hadn't been there? They wouldn't have told me that or whatever it was, you know, where you can say, Oh, I'm so glad you told me, we'll figure this out together, you know, Wow, that must have been so hard for you. Or tell me more about that, you know, whatever, like that worry, or part or tell me from your perspective or that side? So you can hold that container for them that nothing is too much for me. You know, I got you. Yeah. Right. So not necessarily because I'm going to tell you what to do, or I'm going to solve your problem. Or that idea also of Do you want to vent or do you want some advice, and I because I work with littles that the developmental you know, stepping stone for that is just like, validating the feelings, holding the experience for them. Same That was really scary for you, you know? Yeah. I mean, when you say like, the fear and the worry comes up to I think about with our littles and physical safety and that idea, like, running across the street, I turned my back for one second, all of a sudden, across the street, I am panicked. That feeling that physiological feeling of bringing them back, saying, Wow, that was so scary. Let's just pause for a moment hold ground, settle. And then practice, practice, practice, you know, and just like getting the call from the principal's office. All right. Notice ground. Thank you.

Practice, practice, practice.

Alanna Beebe 27:02
Yeah, yeah. And for me, it just, it's the story that we have, you know, if we let fear and shame and guilt really get in the way of the story of our kid, then it becomes Oh, my gosh, this behavior is who my kid is. Right? Right. And we let that go. We let that we run with that. And then it just like cycles up that fear and shame.

Casey O'Roarty 27:23
Yeah, I see that so much with parents of teens. And I feel like I'm doing a lot of talking about the difference between like, their individuating teen brain development, appropriate mischief, versus a conversation around character flaws.

Julietta Skoog 27:41
That is it and it's in the youngers too, and just how easy we slip into, this is who they are, or that's just that kid.

Alanna Beebe 27:54
Like, this is the aggressive kid, this is the sweet kid, this is the timid kid, this is the blah, blah, blah, we label a name, and it might just be developmental might just be in that moment, it might just be and then we're telling the story that becomes their story.

Julietta Skoog 28:08
Well, because then we find, then any evidence that supports that, we say see that there it is the confirmation bias to well,

Casey O'Roarty 28:15
when we're not intentional, right, when we're not connected to ourselves, and we are driving with fear, you know, as the steering wheel, you know, and you can speak into the younger years, but we start to create a dynamic where instead of like, how does what I'm doing in my life affects what I want to be creating. And we create instead this my parents are assholes. Right? Like it becomes about how we don't get it, watch me do it. I can do what I want. And we move actually move our kids away from like, learning that thoughtful, intentional practice themselves. And they're just in that kind of unconscious reactive, yeah.

Alanna Beebe 29:07
And I think for littles that comes up with feelings and emotions, where it's like, oh, I'm upset and you're not seeing it. So I'm gonna have a bigger tantrum. I'm gonna have a bigger explosion. I'm gonna throw it out there because you don't see me. You're not validating my feelings. You're not seeing how I feel. You know, even the simple a kid gets hurt. We're like, Oh, you're fine. You're fine. You're fine. Stop crying. You're fine. Yeah. Right. And then their cries get bigger because they're like, you don't know you don't have you know,

Julietta Skoog 29:31
and the peace with the feelings and the big behaviors. When we match that and freak out at their big behavior and get your brother and destroy them, you know, and are, then it sends that message that we can't handle it either. We can't handle you too much. So there's over time it cuts that piece of like, okay, I cannot express my true feelings.

Alanna Beebe 29:53
Exactly. Oh, I gotta keep people comfortable. Where do you think I got that message right? Feelings aren't okay, I need to keep it everyone comfortable and safe and happy. And while I do that, don't show your feelings don't make waves.

Casey O'Roarty 30:04
When I'm thinking about you bringing home Joe's and realizing I don't know what I'm doing, and that expectation that exists around, it should be innate, it should be natural. We're women, we should know how to parent and mother. And I'm thinking about, you know, that desperate question of like, well, what is the right thing to do? What should I do? What is the right thing to do? Right. And so will you guys speak into that as well?

Julietta Skoog 30:32
I just had this moment because you remind had this brain knows how much of our life John and I, on the exercise ball bouncing this baby, with the hairdryer going

Casey O'Roarty 30:48
for the weight? Oh, yeah, we had a static station on the TV that

Julietta Skoog 30:53
when you said like, what do we do was just like, those were our two parenting tools, like right there. And I think it was like this lesson, you know, for us, too. Especially. It's because John worked with kids too. So we knew kids, but like this going back to this idea of re parenting, I've just seen, oh, it really is this identity shift for you know, us to that we get to develop and start to practice our own intuition, our own set of tools, our own set of responses, and I think cultivating that intuition of not necessarily what is the answer, but your question of like, you know, what is the right thing to do? Like moving away from the answer, and just more leading with that heart, you know, of, I'm coming into it from a place of connection, and curiosity. And what I truly believe is the healthy limit, the boundary, the firmness, the agreement that we've made the value that we have established for ourselves as the culture and our home, you know, so that's what I think about in terms of that, like, what do I do? What's the answer in this moment, and that's a practice. I mean, that's obviously it takes, you know, a lot of practice, it's an ongoing, it's an ongoing, I mean, that is the practice that work and you whether or not you get it right, or you get it wrong isn't necessarily going to be like, given right back to you as a grade, it's going to be that feeling that you have that we talked about, like that feeling of that sweet spot of like, we're growing together, or this landed, or even if the person on the other side, whenever childhood is disappointed or upset or has big feelings around it, or it's messy, or it takes time. It's still I feel it's like that feeling inside, you know? Well,

Casey O'Roarty 32:48
I have a question for you. On that note, Alana, which is like you mentioned, intuition, jewels. And, you know, I have a lot of parents that I work with, who are like intuition, how can I possibly trust my intuition when my backstory is chaos? Right. And so I'm curious, from you, and what you shared with us last episode about your backstory? What have you found your practice? Like? Can you actively grown in your intuition? Is it like, just innate? Some people have it some people? Like what's, yeah, look for you.

Alanna Beebe 33:24
I mean, for me, in my process, it's more about, I can't access my intuition. If I am in like a fear based state. It doesn't exist. So if everything's coming up for me is, this is who they are, this is where it's going. It's what other people are gonna think if it's that same kind of story, you know, that what I tell myself, that doesn't feel good, and I don't feel good when I'm asking those questions, then that's not intuition. Intuition is when I'm sitting in a space, I'm open to all outcomes and possibilities. And my child's telling me something, and I can tell that there's something else underneath. I don't know what it is, you know, necessarily, but I can tell there's something underneath and then we have that conversation, and then I get a little bit more and then like, Okay, in this space, my intuition is, it's probably this, like, I'm taking these connections, and I'm pulling together the information that I have from my child and this situation, and this is my intuition of probably what it is, you know, that's how intuition kind of comes out for me, you know, and

Julietta Skoog 34:26
would you say also, not just telling them the conversation, but that could also be communicated through behavior?

Alanna Beebe 34:31
Absolutely. Yeah. It could be conversation, it could be behavior, it's all of those little pieces that are all coming together. You know, you're like, oh, it's like a little slots lineup, like, oh, they did this and they said, this and this happen and blah, blah. And now they're like, this little conversation that sounds really small. I have an intuition that is must be bigger, you know, and so let's dig into that.

Casey O'Roarty 34:51
Yeah, it sounds like a lot of presents. And I wonder to be considering what we do. I find to the I in my own journey of being who I want to be, but also who I am intuiting that my kids need me to be. There's also this practice of gathering information, you know, like certain books, and it isn't even parenting, it's parenting, it's spirituality. And it's like those moments of like, this makes sense. This is what makes sense to me. Yeah. Right. And acknowledging it might not be what makes sense to the next person. But to me, this is what makes sense to me. Putting relationship in the center makes sense to me. Yeah. And me,

Alanna Beebe 35:32
it's like the brain pattern, you know, the neuroscience? Yeah, the science around emotions in the brain and how we feel in our lives, flips and all of that. I mean, that is, like, so helpful for me, because they finally give me the answer to the why feelings are okay. Right. So it's like looking for the answer for the questions that you have where you doubt yourself, right? exists? Where does that exist? And what is that connection for you? Because there's so much out there in the parenting science world around, you know, brain development, child development in the parenting science world around, you know, brain development, child development, you know, the self growth work, you know, Adlerian, psychology, all of that. But what is the answer you're looking for? Where your self doubt lips? And how can you find that, so then you can show up for your kids in the way that they need you to, you know, you

Casey O'Roarty 36:18
know how they say you should surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. I'm like, Hello. I'm having a moment of like, Damn these girls.

Julietta Skoog 36:30
I was just remembering just within the last couple of weeks when we had had a family meeting, and I'm just, you know, patting myself on the back for guiding our family, this family meeting. And then John was activated or triggered by Leona, and then did his own repair and has really patient way. And then I had to just get her in her room one on one that I had to give a piece, you know, and talk about, like, oh, what should I do in this moment when you and she's holding this like, toy, like a cleaning a broom, let's call it a broom.

Julietta Skoog 37:09
I just snatched it out of her hand. You know, it came so quick. Just like you listen to me right now. It just gets so quick that there was not even a moment for self doubt, like what to do. It's the like, it's the look of the fire. Yeah, that's like, oh, doubting, Was it all a house of cards, because if I can do this, in the moment, you know, are all the other times when I'm so responsive, and all those things. Like, there's some doubt around that. And so just the nuance, like you articulated Ilana like around what that means and who we are and our own stories, and I just love this idea of being like, we're all on this personal journey to be like, what is that? How do I answer that question within myself, you know, and what's the part from here and the part from here in this book that will help me move the needle? Yeah.

Alanna Beebe 38:04
And then when we do that work, right, when we like recognize it for ourselves, we give our kids to be the have the space to have their own experience. We don't have to control it, right? Just want to right? We all want to do that. Or I'll try in the world practicing. Right? Okay. So then the next step, right? Is this like living in this practice of being like, okay, sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't sometimes our kids get it. Sometimes they don't like that's just how we are. We're in this messy, nebulous, in and out thing, because sometimes we need to keep relearning something, we miss something maybe. So we got to keep doing it. Right. It's okay. Right. And then, here's the next thing that we talked about sprouted well, which is when we can then go, oh, instead of writing trying to stop the behavior, like what is missing? Right? What's missing for our kid? What skill? What do they need to learn? What's missing for us? What do we need to learn or reflect on? Right? And we can move to that place of intentional parenting, or

Casey O'Roarty 38:56
I've another reframe of that. And this is what we're going to end with today. And then your quote, considering the stories that we've shared on this episode at the start, what has served us as far as our guilt, and shame and self doubt story? How has the exact kid that we have served us and taught us to evolve inside of that story?

Julietta Skoog 39:22
I mean, just to even cap that one of just from a couple weeks ago, and me being so you know, like the fire coming out, I recognized that it was oh, that's the narrative of like, you listen to your dad, you listen to the Father, you know, and so just because it doesn't come up so often because of that. They don't have such a contentious relationship. It's not us. That's not the narrative in our household. So often, I'm like, you've got to listen to me and this so it doesn't come out. And so because it did come out in that little way, and John and was like, oh, yeah, he's got to reinforce that for that safety part. You know, that six year old right Ain't that I was that was like, do not make waves get really small. Just do what everybody says fly solo under the radar. So that serves me right is that remainder of guests sweat, I get to take care of that little part of me, the kid that I have that's right now gets to help me evolve this generation of being like, you get to be big and loud and strong. And hear me roar, Leona. So I think all of those parts totally serve us as the messages of like, here's, here's the place that we get to keep practicing. Oh, this is going up again. That's so interesting. Yeah.

Alanna Beebe 40:36
For my kid, it's really that gift of taking space. You know, being like, Here I am, unapologetically, I'm going to live here. And this is who I am. And this is what I believe. And here it is.

Julietta Skoog 40:51
That's it. And we don't have to be the good, you know, just, there's

Alanna Beebe 40:54
not good. There's not right, you know, and that, you know, I could say something that could be quote, unquote, a mistake or be hurtful to someone. And I still, like deserve to be in the room. You know, like, it's okay. I still have value. Yes. You know,

Casey O'Roarty 41:09
and that, for me is the gift of Rowan to is really helping me relearn, like, value is innate. We are worthy. Because we are. Because we be because we exist. And she's badass. Like my kids so bold, I'm so inspired by her boldness. Sometimes I'm like, Whoa, but even then I'm like, God, wow, this kid, you know, so.

Julietta Skoog 41:38
And I think that this idea of opening up the range of possibility for them, and instead of just being like, Oh, this is who they are, okay, we figured it out and did it did it, but just sitting back and witnessing getting out of the way, and allowing them to be their true essence and evolve into whoever as they are going to be. We get the gift and the I mean, I always say the likes, it's a gift. And it's like, what not necessarily like a responsibility, but like, mean guilt, just this word surge out of the out of Juliana's as or as being nothing I know it really like I just think, wow, how lucky am I you know, to just like witness, like, that's part

Alanna Beebe 42:29
of the Brene Brown parenting manifesto, right, like, you get to the gift of seeing me or the, like the messiness of me, that's not what she says exactly there. But like, an I get the gift of truly seeing you, you know, well, and Brene we got to read this Brene Brown cloud.

Casey O'Roarty 42:46
All right, so this is from

Julietta Skoog 42:48
Atlas. Okay. Yeah. So just closing with this quote from our, our dear friends, or dear friend, Brene Brown,

Alanna Beebe 42:55
who's going to be our friends at heart, who says,

Julietta Skoog 43:00
if you put shame in a petri dish, it needs three ingredients to grow exponentially, secrecy, silence, and judgment. And if you put the same amount of shame in the petri dish, and douse it with empathy, it can't survive.

Casey O'Roarty 43:17
I think about how much empathy is generated when we bring people together to talk about practice, learn parenting, and it's such a special like, it's hard to really identify how special the communities become that we get to work with and, and the empathy for ourselves. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Well, thanks, ladies. Thank you, listeners and watchers. So excited to be on this adventure. Join us next week as we dig into perspective shifting, embracing imperfection, so we can learn and continue to grow.

Julietta Skoog 43:57
Bye, everybody. Bye.

Casey O'Roarty 44:06
Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my spreadable partners, as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at beasts brothel.com. Tune back in later this week for our Thursday show and I'll be back with another interview next Monday. Peace

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