Eps 467: Dropping into the practice – The Art of Connected Parenting, part 5

Episode 467

Join Alanna Beebe, Julietta Skoog, & Casey O’Roarty, the three founders of Sproutable, as we dig deeper into finding the why of the work we do.  This week, we’re talking about when we’re doing all “the right” parenting moves, but we’re STILL having challenges.  Spoiler alert: the challenges will change, but there will always be challenges.  What we can change is how we handle, experience, & grow through those challenges.  

ALL families and ALL children bring challenges – it’s typical, it’s normal, it’s developmental.  Julietta explains what the Continuum of Change is and why conscious parenting takes so much time, effort, & intention.  It’s not easy! 

Julietta shares a detailed recounting of helping one of her children through a serious phobia and why she always has a dog treat in her pocket!  We get into the importance of family meetings, helping children through anxiety, and how and when to hand the reins over to children to solve their problems.  Casey shares a story about her son, and how we get to keep practicing these skills with our older children.  

We wrap today with a lovely quote from Maya Angelou and an invitation to envision showing up in a different way.  The only thing you can control is how you show up. 

Join us next week for the last episode in the Founder Series and a deep dive into perseverance for the long term. 

Guest Description

Alanna Beebe is a certified Positive Discipline Educator. She has 15+ yrs in public health & early learning communications, and equity & social justice policy development. She is a current board member of FoxBox, helping families in long-term hospital stays. She is a former board member for WACAP (now HoltInternational.org), international and domestic adoption and foster placement agency.

Julietta Skoog is a Certified Positive Discipline Advanced Trainer with an Ed.S Degree in School Psychology and a Masters Degree in School Counseling with over 20 years of experience helping families in schools and homes. She draws from her real life practical experience working with thousands of students with a variety of needs and her own three children to parent coaching, bringing a unique ability to translate research, child development and Positive Discipline principles into everyday parenting solutions. Her popular keynote speeches, classes, and workshops have been described as rejuvenating, motivating, and inspiring.

Casey O’Roarty, M.Ed, is a facilitator of personal growth and development. For the last 15 years, her work has encouraged parents to discover the purpose of their journey, and provided them with tools and a shift of mindset that has allowed them to deepen their relationship with themselves and their families. Casey is a Positive Discipline Lead Trainer and Coach. She hosts the Joyful Courage podcast, parenting summits, live and online classes, and individual coaching. Her book, Joyful Courage: Calming the Drama and Taking Control of YOUR Parenting Journey was published in May 2019. Casey lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband, and two teenagers.

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Takeaways from the show

  • Challenges change, but they will always be there 
  • “Magic 8” 
  • What is useful?  What is helpful? 
  • Understanding where your child is developmentally
  • Being firm without being harmful 
  • The Continuum of Change 
  • Family Meetings 
  • When and how to know when to let your child lead 
  • Slice it thinner: What do you want?  What’s your plan? 
  • Trusting your child(ren)’s gifts & skills 
  • Intrinsic motivation & practicing skills in the safety of home 
  • They’ve got it!  And if they don’t, they will figure it out! 
  • “Fiercely committed, lovingly detached” 
  • “This is a wonderful day, I have never seen this one before.” – Maya Angelou

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practice, talk, parenting, piece, kids, dog, feel, family, unskilled, work, skills, place, class, anxiety, emotional regulation, good, parents, stage, giving, firmness
Alanna Beebe, Julietta Skoog, Casey O'Roarty

Casey O'Roarty 00:03
Hey everybody, welcome to the joyful courage podcast a place for information and inspiration on the parenting journey. Just wanted to give you a heads up that from now until the 11th of March, the podcast is being taken over, we've got a limited series happening, you're going to hear about it in just a moment, the art of connected parenting so still the same deep value that you get every Monday here on the joyful coach podcast. But we will be sharing the limited series art of connected parenting for the next little while. And the good news is this limited series is good for all parents, young kids all the way through the teen years. So check it out, and enjoy

Casey O'Roarty 00:56
Hello, everybody. Welcome Back to Our Podcast Series, The Art of connected parenting where the founders of Sproutsocial are coming together to talk about the power of up leveling how we think about and understand our roles and relationships with our kids. Just to remind you of who we are, I'm Casey already host of the joyful courage podcast, positive discipline, lead trainer, Mom adolescent lead with me are a lot of baby my friend, brilliant, brilliant, thoughtful mama and positive discipline parent educator as well. And my sister from another mister Julieta Skoog, also a mom, early years lead, positive discipline trainer, and so much more. Right. We're so excited to continue to dig into this work with all of you, thank you for being here and listening in. So last episode, we talked about being intentional, and considering what our goals are in regards to how we interact with our kids, and who will we be in relationship with them? This week, we're talking about the amazing experience of doing all the work and still having all the challenges or at least that's how it feels right? And so we've been practicing intention, we're re parenting, our perspective is broader, or considering the long term. And the mischief is still there. So I want to hear first from you. Because I want to know, what do you hear? Like, how does this show up in parenting class?

Julietta Skoog 02:30
I was just gonna say this was how I was going to lead it off, actually, which is this idea of this spoiler alert, like, the challenges don't go away? They more they change. But there are always challenges. So I think there is this, you know, based on what's out there and marketing. It's like, yeah, 123 Magic, or just within these five simple steps. It'll all magically, you know, be gone. Yeah. And so I think that's what I hear in the parenting classes, which is, and I say straight up, hey, I'm not trying to sell you like perfect kids by the end. So number one, the challenges are there, they're always going to be there. The difference is the way that we feel right in our economy. It's how we experience it. And also, frankly, I think there is a real growth that is hard to see sometimes, right? Because you're always focused on the hard things. And so how awesome it is when you are in a parenting group or with your friends, and you're able to really thoughtfully reflect on how far you've come you know where you're going? Because I think sometimes we lose sight of that, too. Yeah, absolutely. I say that to a lot of groups. Like we always pause and say what is working? And even being able to go back to original challenges and say, Oh, that used to be challenged. It's so funny. I totally forgot about that. Yeah.

Alanna Beebe 03:47
The throwing toy. That's right, like dropping food off the plate on the ground. Right. Just things that moves on you move on from there.

Julietta Skoog 03:54
Yeah. Pain in the corner. Yeah,

corner, right. Wow. High school or that kind of drawing on the wall. Right. Right. So

Julietta Skoog 04:03
there's that piece too, I think is important to hold and say, Look how far we've come. We're in a different set of challenges. But you know, we're that part two. So there's that piece of, Wow, this is relentless. Another thing that I hear a lot because I work with the younger ages, I take them all up to the tweens, then over to you is this idea of the relentlessness in the early years, but how much of it is front loading? You know, and I'm seeing that even with my own kids or I would see it with my students where they started these little preschool kindergarteners and then by the time they reach fifth grade look how like we've done so much work and these front loading Yeah, they really are heading off in a new place and so there are some reward

Alanna Beebe 04:46
and even that like seven eight year olds reward place too because that's the next emotional brain labor right?

Casey O'Roarty 04:52
That's the sweet spot.

Julietta Skoog 04:54
I call it the magic eight Yeah, developmentally because that is when all the light Turn on. Yeah, it is suddenly the world is bigger. envision it as this like stuck sex. So it's act like if you see a little thing be built in like fast time to digital. It's like all of a sudden lights are turning on. Everything is sort of clicking in their brain. And it is bigger. It's a little more emotional. I remember Josephine actually my oldest saying, everything just feels bigger now. Like she got it, you know, it's not kind of this sweet, innocent things are going over your head. It's like, Oh, there's more complexity in the world. So yes, to your point, like just kind of even

Alanna Beebe 05:32
then you'll see it right. Click, it just keeps plugging in.

Julietta Skoog 05:36
Yes. And so yes, there's, you know, do more emotions, there's little emotionally, but there's also they're getting it together. They're bringing stuff home in their backpack, and they're putting it away. And you know, all these higher ups of things that you felt like you were really still on them about start to come together for you know, for a lot of family a little while. Yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 05:53
One of the language that I play with to with my people is, I heard you say it is what's working. And I try to really support my clients in shifting from like, what's going to work to, and it's probably just semantics, but for whatever reason, it really matters to me to what's helpful, like, what's useful? Because I feel like in that conversation around what works, we stay in that 123 Magic mindset of like, where's the magic wand? Formula? I'm

Julietta Skoog 06:22
going to change this now. Thank you so much. I'm just envisioning my posters are not what's working, what is

Casey O'Roarty 06:29
what is helpful? What is helpful? Yeah, what's used? You know, as we've talked in earlier episodes, and if you've missed them, for sure, go back and listen from the beginning. We've talked about the iceberg. We've talked a little bit about mistaken goals, like yep. And I feel like that what is helpful, what is useful really takes us, like, more automatically down into what's going on under the surface. So there's that piece. And then you know, what happens in the teen years sometimes is the looking back, is like, there's this longing for that. So magical, eight, 910 year old who was joyful and snuggly and open. And not everybody had that experience with their kids when they were in elementary school. But a lot of people it's this, like, ah, they used to be, and then they've moved into the teen years, because they're individuating. And they need to and it's brain development, and it's a brain science. And so, yeah, there's this piece around like, the map, like you're in a different, you're on a different continent, right? And like, things are gonna feel different because they are, right. And so yeah, just talking about that, too, is a useful place to be. And you can be doing all the things right, and all the practices, and you're still on the continent of individuation, like right can't bypass that there's no bypass.

Alanna Beebe 07:53
Well, and I think this is why it's important to we I don't think we touched on this previously. But really understanding the developmental stage that your kids are at, yeah, like having that grounding, having that information, because it doesn't take a long time to get that information. But it's so helpful to have the perspective of when they're three and four, their emotional brain development is off the charts, they are going to have big feelings, either internally or externally. It's going to happen, right? As teenagers, you are going to have individuation, you are going to have novelty seeking that is going to happen. Yeah, part of their natural development. So just understanding those things can help you come from a different perspective as well. Yeah, for sure.

Julietta Skoog 08:30
For sure. And I think too, I mean, this idea that it's not like, Okay, did it like it is landed, we've landed, it is a practice, it is a practice. We were talking in our last episode around your 20 year old, like, it's still you're still parenting with a 20 year old do you think, oh, once they're gone? 18. So this idea of really these high reps, you know, and this fluency as we talk about with this parenting language of and you know, when we've talked about the art of connected parenting, connected, conscious, gentle parenting, positive discipline, the common theme between them all is relationship, it is looking at challenges so that it's not just about stopping it, but not doing harm. You know, it's really taking the this harm out. Yeah, I mean, I just from violence. I mean, even words, why, you know, yeah, it's a really moving towards that place of firmness without the harm. Yeah. So in that way, that's a whole different way of being there's a fluency that comes with the high reps, practice, practice, practice, practice, but it doesn't mean that you're not going to get those big challenges. Oh, yeah.

Casey O'Roarty 09:40
Yeah. And I love what you said about fluency in the practice that reminds me of the activity that we do continuum of change. When favorites. Do you want to talk a little bit about that particular process? And I continued on yes again

Julietta Skoog 09:55
yet, so I'll tee it up. So the continuum of changes in activity that we used to really think about this metaphor of change, and so can be really anything and learning a new skill. But we tee it up as learning to ride a bike. And when you're first learning to ride a bike, you've never even gotten on the bike before. You're looking at all the kids riding around. It looks easy, you're excited, you're like, When's it my turn? You know, okay, but that moment you get on the bike. It is so wobbly. You think, Wow, this is a lot harder than it looks. You fall. It's scary. It's overwhelming. But with practice, you're riding your bike. And then you are run your friend's house and doing okay, if you're so conscious of, you know, changing the gears or where I turn or being really where I'm trying to stop trying to stop. Yeah.

Alanna Beebe 10:45
So scary, scary.

Casey O'Roarty 10:48
really thoughtful, thoughtful.

Julietta Skoog 10:50
But with practice, we're all riding our bike, suddenly, it's a commute. We're writing it out haulage and you're not even thinking about it's automatic, just like driving a car or riding a bike. And so when we break those up into those stages, we can look at it through a lens of consciousness and skill based. So the first stage is that unconsciously unskilled, and that is, you know, no,

Casey O'Roarty 11:10
the bike looks super dry. You don't know what you don't know, you're pregnant.

Alanna Beebe 11:13
You're like, oh, parenting

Casey O'Roarty 11:17
teacher, and you're like, I'm probably gonna be really good at this. That's.

Julietta Skoog 11:21
And ignorance is bliss. And you really have no idea. It's a lovely place to be. I remember before I did a yoga teacher training, and I was like, I mean, how easy is that? Like, yoga teachers must have like the easiest job in the world. They just got to do yoga all the time. And I thought, sure, I'll go do this. How fun. It'll just give me like a real excuse to go do a lot of yoga and learn about it. And I got into the program. And I was like, This is the hardest thing ever there Sanskrit and philosophy. It was so overwhelming. I didn't even know what questions to ask, can

Casey O'Roarty 11:53
I tell you my story? Yes, unconsciously unskilled, learning to snowboard as an adult. I was like, I could ski. You know, I would had moved up here to Washington with Ben and everybody's snowboard. I was like, I better learn how snowboard I mean, I was like, you know, what can I like? How hard is it, I can ski I understand balance, not a big deal. And then and then

Julietta Skoog 12:18
you hit then you get Oh, my God, that next phase. Unskilled, when you know what you don't know, and you don't like it, and you'll like it. And so that's where when we start to play with this type of conscious parenting, right? When you start getting into it, it's like, oh, wow, what this takes time, this takes intention. It doesn't we don't see results right away. It's

Alanna Beebe 12:46
not so easy to just like, say the right thing that we think we're supposed to say in this moment. Whereas Yeah, yeah, what am I supposed to do here. So

Julietta Skoog 12:54
dysregulated, I keep getting in my own way or my own little flip. So there's that place of consciously unskilled. And then we move into the riding the bike to the neighbors, you know, and you become consciously skilled, you're aware of it. And with enough practice, there is some unconsciously skilled places too. And so when we look at any part of a change or a growth, you've got to go through the stages. There's no shortcuts. Yeah. And so Alfred Adler says, and Adlerian psychology, if our feet are just point in the direction we'll get there, you know, might be a few steps back and forward. And we move in and out of those phases as our kids go through different stages of development. But it's a really nice model to think about with our parenting practice, because there are going to be different things that throw us for a loop, they're going to turn into tweens, you might have a parenting partner that loses a job or gets cancer or they go from being toddlers and preschoolers, suddenly, they're in elementary school, and that's a whole nother

Alanna Beebe 13:50
ball of wax, or they have a new friendship that is really toxic. Totally. Yeah, you're helping them to navigate. Yeah, they

Casey O'Roarty 13:57
are the toxic for or they're the toxic friend, right? Yeah, it's

Julietta Skoog 14:00
really fun or sleep regression, you know, or, yeah, there's a lot of things that happen. And so when we can bring that consciousness to it, and through this idea of fluency, and with practice, it is a skill like that with practice, practice, practice. We don't ever say you are always unconsciously skilled. As a parent, I think you have these moments of feels automatic, you're in the flow with them. You know, you feel you're in the sweet spot. And there are times that bring us right back to that consciously. You're aware of the skills or right back to Oh, wow, this is a new space for me as a parent. I don't have the skills for this yet, but we're going to work on this together.

Casey O'Roarty 14:39
Yeah. Will you tell your story about violent and to

Julietta Skoog 14:42
illustrate? Yes, absolutely. So we had always had issues with Violet has my metal with dogs. She was always afraid of dogs. She had had a situation when she was about 18 months in the stroller with my sister, always blame your sister. I will And I wasn't the one in charge that was. Yeah, where apparently this dog, you know, came up and the owner was like, Oh, they're friendly. And then like leapt into the stroller with with it by. And so she was super afraid. And even at that age, she would retell the story over and over again of like, oh, this little narrative. And so we would retell the story with her and hold her and say, you know, and then you got comfort, we did the sign for comfort. And so it was always part of this narrative. She was always a little jumpy of dogs. And so we really tried to open up opportunities for her to be around dogs. We don't have dogs a lot in the neighborhood. But I also found myself doing some enabling practices where if we go to a friend's house, and they were like, Oh, well put the dog away, I would say thanks. Right? I wouldn't say no, it's good practice. So over time, I'd really created this buffer around her, and it started to get worse. So where

Casey O'Roarty 15:51
are you in the context of skilled unskilled continue with change? Yes. Where

Julietta Skoog 15:57
I would say I was consciously unskilled, because I was aware that there was this issue with the dog, but I wasn't doing anything about it. Okay. Could

Casey O'Roarty 16:07
you feel that tension of like, I could not really solving this problem? Absolutely.

Julietta Skoog 16:11
Especially when we would go to a friend's house, and they would not have the dog put away and I would find her huddling in the corner, and not wanting to come and be social with everybody with her family and her personality, like she's such a social butterfly. And so of course, I would get to like, You're embarrassing me get out there, you know, and not acknowledging it or validating at all. So once that pattern felt so uncomfortable, and had to move me to action, and I say that with the caveat that like and of course for her so uncomfortable. I mean, that's the place, right? It wasn't just about how I was feeling. But also I could just be like, this is a problem for you. Her first question would be when we got offered to a playdate, she would say ask them if they have a dog. And like that's, that is it? Yeah. So. So I moved into this place of practice of saying, we're going to deal with us, like, you know what, let's get in the ring together. We're gonna get through this.

Julietta Skoog 17:08
And so, I signed her up for this little kung fu class where they had a dog in the studio, so that perfect, it's like the mental strength. She's gonna face this dog every week. They were so sweet about having that be part of the practice. And then COVID hit and everything shut down. And that class stopped. And we had no practice anymore. And so before we knew it, a whole year had gone by ish. We show up to my sister's for Christmas Eve, who has a dog, very large, Doberman Pinscher dog Doberman dog, like, let's find carriers to do subrack. But you kind of forgot, because she's just been her regular self, right? There's no other signs of anxiety. And she had a full panic attack, full panic attack on Christmas Eve with all of the family climbing up the wall, can't breathe. This third grader, I mean, really scary, sad. And everyone was so sweet. Of course, it's our nuclear family. But it really highlighted like, Oh, my goodness, this is so major. So it really moved me into this place of consciously skilled where I was like, Alright, this is what we've been training for. So the positive discipline tools that I pulled from, really were around firmness, follow through perseverance, not giving up just giving the message huddling up the family, the family meeting and saying, guess what we're here to help VI is a solution situation, all hands on deck. And we created this little annex to our family meeting, which was that we started talking about anxiety as a family. And Joe has talked about when she was younger and had a real fear around fire. And we worked through that as a family through her stuff. John talked about his experience with anxiety, we all have it, I talked about the different performance anxiety that I have that shows up in our bodies. So even just that of like, breaking through this. And I think there's little creeping of shame, you know, or just like, this is a big issue for us. And embracing it as a family. It was really helpful. So Well,

Alanna Beebe 19:14
in this I mean, yes, a little side note, but just how your family comes together as a team is so powerful. Yeah, to support each other and how you bring everyone like, okay, like, here we are, we do Yeah, this is what we do as a family, like we solve problems together. See that that comes out? Well, this

Casey O'Roarty 19:30
is also like a higher level piece of continuum of change the way that your household like, that's just who the schools are. Right? Like, I feel like there's some unconscious skill, just even in the way you come together because it's what you've always done and I think, yeah,

Julietta Skoog 19:48
well, and that idea of this practice is through family meetings. I mean, that was the small step, which is we don't all skip into it every week. It is hard. heard, it's not fun. Anybody roll their eyes?

Casey O'Roarty 20:01
Yeah, good. We have them

Alanna Beebe 20:04
like, and hold on, hold on, we just have to say really quickly, Casey and Julietta love family meetings. If you do not know what they're talking about with family meetings, you need to look up family meetings, joyful courage podcasts, where they talk about family names, we look it up on our website, there's a blog about it. family meetings and positive discipline, we could spend a whole time talking about it. But it's a time to come together as a family, and be solution focused. Well, as like just a general

Julietta Skoog 20:32
as this tune up as this dip oil dipstick kind of situation where it's like, you do have to put in the reps and the practice in these little doses if there are some results. But that being said, this was a big challenge. I mean, this is a kid who was paralyzed. And I didn't know if we were going to get to the other side. But I just said, I'm not going to give up on you. If this is until you go off to college that we're working on this, then we will be doing that. Can

Casey O'Roarty 20:59
I see your question? Yes. How did you hold? Is this something we can solve? Or is this something we need more help with?

Julietta Skoog 21:06
Great question. Well, I immediately was like, I need help. Of course, this poor kid was climbing up the walls, you know. And so I this is actually a crazy side story. So I called a bunch of therapists are looked up, especially the phobia piece of anxiety is really specific. And I really wanted someone who could help us with that piece. And so I googled found the people who all had weightless. And that also, I think there's a little bit of that discipline where I was, like, I made the list, I set aside that, you know, a little bit every day outside of my work hours to make the phone calls and just chip away at it. You know, I wasn't like, this is too overwhelming. There's so many people or what have you. It's like, just start, you know, just like weather just started moving, just gonna move in. So I called and then this one person answered. And he said, I don't know how you got my phone number, because I only work with adults. But he listened to my story. And he said, Oh, you're a school counselor, you're a school psychologist, you do this work, you know what get this book called freeing your child from anxiety. I'll put the link in the notes. And I think you could do this. And I was like, awesome. We'll start there. Well, we're on.

So Empower credibly.

Julietta Skoog 22:16
Which is also why I feel so passionate about empowering parents to be like, you don't have to outsource everything. It's awesome. You can even do it in conjunction with a therapist. Awesome. Yes. And empower yourself do the work at home, too, you know. So I've read the book, and we pull different pieces. And we actually I would bring that book to our little anxiety session as a family. And we would start with each stage. Gosh,

Alanna Beebe 22:38
I feel like we all need this. Can you just Yes, we should just have like the the family like the family meeting charter on anxiety, like a, you know, six meeting process being like, yeah. Are you guys thinking of my plan

Julietta Skoog 22:53
up YouTube? Because I have an anxiety workshop?

Alanna Beebe 22:59
There is Yeah, and definitely join Julia's anxiety workshop in spring 2024. If you're watching this later, that was Spring, and we will continue to have

Julietta Skoog 23:09
okay. And But coming back to this continuum of change where it was like, you know, we'd still it was as a family, also for her movement that we really chipped away at, like, Okay, what is the exposure therapy look like? So this is the part where I think the permissiveness or sense of just like coming with positivity can be a detriment to parents who are on this conscious parenting, positive discipline road, because it does get hard. Yeah, it gets hard and super messy. And so you have to come in with the firmness and the follow through and the commitment. Yeah. So when we would go to these stages of exposure therapy and say, This is what we're practicing next. Are you ready? What is that growth edge? Not too much too fast. But what is the growth edge? And Josephine would be like, well, last week, we were on walking through the park dogs on a leash, where are we at Next? And why would it be like I think I need some more reps on that. And we'd be like, Okay, so one more week, and then we're moving on space, you know, now we're gonna get to the place where the dogs are off leash. And ultimately, we got to this place where we went back with my sister and her dog off the leash. And vi had a visceral like Shakedown D PTSD, and we just wrapped around we were at the edge of the lake and we were like, I really had to hold her physically. Ze so strong and confidently in my body. I will keep you safe. I will not let anything harm you. You can do this. We've practiced and literally like hold her to get her next to Dutchess, the little sweet dog. And once she got like, I would kind of force her touch her whole body to soften and then she was like, okay, okay, you know, and she can out and then by the end of the session, she was throwing the stick for her and giving her an rubbing her I'm petting her and I took a video of her, save yourself, tell your future violet, how to get me How are you feeling like what you've done. And we just kept practicing those kinds of hierarchies. And it would change. You know, if we went, we went away with a family and they had this cute little puppy who like could not have been less scary, like stuffed animal. Exactly, well, sweet cowboy. And save that we had to do it again. But then once she broke through, and we were like, we are doing this. It was she was there for the weekend. So it was just these hops in this commitment, you know, to get us to that place, and it'll still creep up a little bit. I also I don't know if you noticed on our walk this morning, I carry dog treats in my pocket when we walk to school or out. And so for years, we've Ziploc full of men now. Like I am, oh, my trusty keeper as that exposure therapy with, you know, that kind of piece around like we're getting comfortable around.

Casey O'Roarty 25:54
Yeah, so yep, this is what I love about your story. And this is where I think people get mixed up a little bit when they are super gung ho with positive parenting, conscious parenting, gentle parenting, whatever it is, there's this language around, let your child take the lead. And I see that with the parents of teenagers too. It's a mutually respectful collaboration. And it's a back and forth dance, like we get to pay attention. Like she said, I think I need more reps with the dogs on the leash and you respected that, while also holding we are doing this thing to help you move past because

Alanna Beebe 26:31
we all want to be comfortable. You know, our kids want to sit in comfort when things are uncomfortable or new or you know, different. They're not gonna be like, oh, yeah, let's do that. That's right. Same as practicing emotional regulation. I just kept thinking about that. You know, I mean, if you're a parent, and you're listening to this, and you're like, oh, yeah, well, it makes sense. Because a big phobia, of course, I would fall through. But it's the same thing with emotional regulation. You know, you go through the stage of kids having tantrums and big feelings, you never do the work to teach the skill so that your kids have their own self soothing techniques that are healthy for them, then they're just not going to have those, you know, they'll stay in consciously unskilled and skilled, and they'll have to figure it out eventually, you know, like, like, something's going to figure out for them, they'll they'll replace it with something that may not be healthy for them that you know, right? That's possible. So it's just like, always going back to that, like, Oh, we're always practicing this, we're always leaning to this. And so that's right.

Julietta Skoog 27:22
And I mean, I think because we had this practice in these other ways, it wasn't so overwhelming. It was enough to be calling therapists for sure. But it also was like, we can handle this because we've been practicing since they were little around these types of coping skills, and even this languaging of coping skills for healthy emotional regulation and

Alanna Beebe 27:44
the land we're living in now. All these young people and other people to all of us adults living with anxiety. Yeah, so much anxiety. So you know, and not, that's the emotional regulation piece. That's it right there. Right. That's the skill, right?

Julietta Skoog 27:58
So and even when we think about our bedtime routine for a toddler, like that grows for us into what are those healthy things or healthy habits? That is that habit? So when things pop up, which they're going to do, like when my eighth grader had a panic moment, as well, we were like, awesome. This is what we've been training for. Yeah, it's good. Let's regulate. Let's hug it out. Let cry, take the deep breaths, collective wrap around, and then let's do the work. Yeah. Where have we gotten sideways? Where can we go back to that bedtime routine, and look at what used to be our little, you know, as when they were little deep breaths together, reading the feelings, bugs, doing little meditation type things, or a little yoga moves or ninja stuff, you know? And now it's like, okay, you're old enough? What's your journaling? Practice? What are you listening to those kinds of just habit. So going back to VI, with a phobia piece, and those kinds of looking at it from that lens of like, understanding the brain. That was a big piece, we really named what that fight or flight trigger was, we gave it a name, we process that. And the big piece, Alana, that I appreciate you bringing out and your concept, Casey of the collaboration piece is that our step one was like what do you want, you don't want to live in this paralysis, you want to be able to go to any friend's house that invites you. So that was the first start was like, how do you envision and she's like, beans, comfortable talks? Yeah, so great. So that's how you can lean into that firmness and validity because we're in it together. And

Casey O'Roarty 29:35
it's so interesting. And I want to talk kind of like bridge into the high reps, and moving our kids through the continuum of change, but also the way that we move through the continuum of change. So I mentioned in the last episode, that you know, there are things that come up in my parenting group that really freak out the parents, whereas I'm like, you know, is the everybody's gonna be okay here. And one of those things that came up just this year Are with in is for like the first six weeks of school every week I got the text message, it was like Ian was absent from blah, blah, blah period, which I know means he was late because the school policy is if they're more than 10 minutes late, they get an absence, which is dumb, by the way. And we dealt with some lateness last year, and I'd call the school but I was like, You know what, this is not mine. This is not mine. And one of the pieces which I heard you didn't say it explicitly in your story, but you sat inside of deep trust and faith, that violet could get over this thing. Right? This might have come up last episode ish. But that's so big, like, for me with these absences. And this was something but again, is something I see with my parents were like, Oh, my God, they're late every single day to school. And it's just like, What do we got to do to them to make them stop? Right? And we talk about, talk about the morning routine, but really talk about what's important to them, you know, and so with me, I'm like, and I'm not going to call the school anymore to excuse your absence, which the whole process is just dumb. Anyway, no judgment, I'm completely in judgment. Do not be confused. There are better systems for getting kids to school on time. But I said, like, you know, you know, what's important to you, you're applying to colleges, right now, do you know, is this something that's going to be on your transcripts that anybody's going to catch sight of and be like, well, this is a kid who has a lot of absences? Is it gonna get in the way of your graduate? Like, I don't know the answers to those questions like, What are the ultimate actual consequences of this? Because I'm out, this is yours. And he was like, I don't know. No, no, no way. I'm like, Well, you might want to find out because you might gather some information that's going to support you in caring about getting to school on time.

Alanna Beebe 31:56
And the thing is, is Casey is you're able to sit there because you trust that he's going to graduate high school, he's moving on like he is in control of his life, he is responsible, because you've already dealt with those skills, right? You've been working on those skills all along the way independent, responsible. It's not that you've given up on him, right? It's that you trust Him. And so you can sit in that trust. Yes.

Casey O'Roarty 32:16
And even as I hear you say that and point that out to me, I am thinking about those of you that are listening that I know are diehard joyful courage podcast fans, and you're like, Yeah, that's great, and is doing swell.

Casey O'Roarty 32:33
You know, my kid, it's like three or four classes a day, I recognize that they can look much different. And with those clients, I go right back to what you said, step one, so what do you want? What do you want? Do you want to graduate with your friends or not? There's this he's, what's your plan. But what I'm getting at with this is I feel like sometimes I have to remind myself, because of the work I do every day, all day long, because of how long we've been doing this work. We have some a lot of places where we are unconsciously skilled. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's something that's a part of me to trust that my kiddo is capable. And no matter how dark it gets, I get to really lean into their gifts here for them. Like even, you know, Rowan story. I mean, that was not the same as Anne's. And even then it was like, I have to trust that this is not how it's always going to be for her.

Julietta Skoog 33:30
Well, and we talked last episode around mistakes being opportunities to learn. And I was thinking after we wrapped that episode, about I don't know if we necessarily dug in enough around, like, yes, we know that. But do we show that to our kids? And so I think it's these places that we're talking about here, where that's where it's putting into practice, and that's how we also can communicate that message with our kids. Yeah,

Alanna Beebe 34:00
yeah. And really communicating that I mean, even with the littles and our kids saying, Yeah, you're in practice with this.

Julietta Skoog 34:06
When you Alana, will you speak to just your practice from day one, because you really were immersed in this before even having children. I

Alanna Beebe 34:15
was very lucky, y'all. Here's the thing. I got to go to, I don't know maybe three of your positive spin classes Julieta before I had my kid, and if you are lucky enough to take a parenting class, which I recommend positive discipline, obviously, because this is what we get behind here. It sprouted Well, if you're lucky enough to take a parenting class before you have children. The time that you get to really practice these new skills because they are new skills. Yeah, you know, this is the thing that maybe you were lucky enough to grow up in a household where you learned emotional regulation, you learned all these important life skills and you're coming in like I got this consciously skilled if you feel really consciously skilled, you know where the rubs are you and you're like ready to go? No, that's amazing, I would love to meet you. You must be an incredible person. Because even where I am, was not where I was at becoming into parenting, I believe that we all would benefit from taking a parenting class. Absolutely, especially a class where we learn about development. And we learn about these social emotional skills, we learn about these life skills, and how to teach them and what that looks like, especially in younger years. So I had the benefit of taking Juliet as class various times before I had my kid. And when I had my baby, I got to practice these things, I got to practice my baby crying, like you were so sad, or you're so uncomfortable, we've tapered sweat, like, you know, and say those words and validating the feelings and being there and, you know, realizing like the feelings are okay, and like going through my process with that, for my kick it even talk, right. And so by the time I felt like it was like, really important to like, start using that language I had already been practicing from through that time. And that's that fluency, right? Fluency, it's like learning the language, you know, you have to be immersed in it, you can just have somebody tell you, Oh, do this, say this will walk. And that's not what we do. Anyway, we don't say this is how you should act, or this is what you should do. But you have to find your own language and your own way of moving through parenting. And you can only do that through practice. You can only do that scene there. So if you don't have the information, and you're practicing, and you're like, oh, gosh, that's actually not how I wanted to show up. Now, what can I do? Then you're like backtracking, right? And then you're trying to figure it out. And then you're trying to change your practice, right? Like I envisioned this world later on, you know, maybe where we all have this practice before we have kids. And then we come into having kids, and we're like, oh, now we're really immersed in it. Now. I'm really practicing. And here it is. And we don't have to, like, change these patterns that we

Julietta Skoog 36:50
created. Why is that? I'm like, we have a birthing class we have. I mean, all

Casey O'Roarty 36:55
think about how many people don't even go to birth class. I mean, sure, we're making an

Julietta Skoog 36:59
assumption, right? I mean, yes, there's so many things. We could also talk about how I only took one semester of economics in high school, and like that was that financial illiteracy, but like, there's like, but yes, this idea of really, of having this parenting plan, or just even an awareness, if you can already move out of the unconsciously unskilled, and be in the awareness and skills place. Before your kids are talking and throwing stuff at you and yelling and triggering

Casey O'Roarty 37:25
all your inner child stuff,

Julietta Skoog 37:27
then you're like, What do I do? Right? This? Yeah, we were ahead of the game in terms of that practice. And they also

Alanna Beebe 37:32
recognize that this is within the context of the lives that we have, where we are really isolated. Again, as families and parents, you know, we aren't growing up in a community like a lot of people are where you are around kids growing up your whole life, you see it, you know, you're rounded the multi generational, multi generational household, village life, whatever it is, you know, I recognize that. And if you find yourself in a place like we are, right, like, actually, I would love to have this information beforehand, or early as possible that you did. Well, yeah.

Julietta Skoog 38:01
And one of those key pieces you even said, I mean, that you would practice as a baby is this idea of intrinsic motivation. Because even in your story, what I heard you saying within, is there all these friends that are like, what am I going to do? How can I make them and to really having this deeper understanding of encouragement and intrinsic motivation? For how to have the kids want to change want to go to class, you know, want to be okay, with dogs, like that part of you want to move out of the discomfort and grow. That's the piece. So that perseverance, the grit, the perseverance,

Casey O'Roarty 38:39
and you think, like, are they even loosening? Well, first of all, put it in the form of a question. And then they're considering, right, let them be in the consideration. What Ian ended up doing is he sent me a video and was like, okay, hold on, mom. This is one of the counselors at school. And he puts the counselor on his video and he says, Are there too many missed classes? Will I not graduate because of absences? And the counselor was like, Absolutely not. You will still graduate. And it was like, there you go. And I just thought it was so ProAct I loved that he did that. He had the conversation. He gathered some information. Yeah, I'd love more questions. And I'm also like, it's just adding to my ability to be in that place of, you know, he's got this and if he doesn't got it, he's gonna learn and connect the dots. It's not going to be like, Why didn't you make me blah, blah, blah, it's gonna be like, well, and

Julietta Skoog 39:37
he gets to practice it under your roof, not when you get to college next year, and then you don't show up at all. And then right this is where you want to keep retrace

my steps. Go to class.

Alanna Beebe 39:50
Practice it. Let's see. Yeah. Love the family.

Julietta Skoog 39:53
And that moving that needle around great, you know that you can graduate and it doesn't matter. How about the perspective of how affects everybody else. Sure, when you walk in late Yep, and the teacher and that chance to just offer these pieces. And when we're the motivation piece, we know kids need competence. They need the skills. That's why we have to teach, they're not gonna be motivated. They feel like they can't do it. That's where we slice it thinner. I mean, that was a huge piece that I leaned into with violet, of just practice, practice, practice and evidence, you did it, you walked across the park, there were all those dogs that were running around off the leash, you know, you can do it, you didn't die. I was like, What do you think is gonna happen? And she was like, I think it's going to eat me. I know what in my head, it won't. But in the moment, that is what I feel. So it's like that kind of evidence that you have to build in order to help and the teaching the competence around understanding your own brain, that it's not you. It's this security guard that's setting off the alarm and nobody else's alarm is going off, you know, the higher reps around that. And then we get to use that now when she's afraid to get in a shot or something. I'm like, nope, the drama queens showing up. That's what she named it. The DQ is showing up. Don't let her upstage you. You get on that stage up in front and center. Tell her No, thank you. That kind of does it. playfulness. Yeah, that's super into theater. But I wouldn't say to about the motivation. So there's the competence, but there's also the relationship. Kids need that connection. And that's what you have within there. It's like that collaborative connection. Or Sure. connection for them of why? Yeah,

Casey O'Roarty 41:25
I'm not building this dynamic of I'm letting my mom down. Right? Like, you know, like, or

Alanna Beebe 41:31
episodes. Yeah, our own story. Yeah. Right.

Casey O'Roarty 41:36
I don't need to recreate this, your value is tied to your attendance, right? Either, like, I'm gonna love you, no matter what, if this does get in the way of what you want, that'll be a drag, and we'll figure it out, you know, like, or you'll figure

Julietta Skoog 41:50
it out, which is the example of the third component of intrinsic motivation, which is autonomy. It's like, this is yours. This

Casey O'Roarty 41:56
is yours. We talked about it in my classes as handing over the energetic responsibility, which is not the same as a blank check, right? But it's really like, actually, I'm freaking out about this. I'm really worried about this. But you're the one that's deciding your relationship with, you know, fill in the blank. So I'm gonna hand that over to you, I'm gonna stand by you. I'm gonna love you. I'm gonna offer support and resources. The other mantra that I love in my work is fiercely committed lovingly detached, which like I think about in your story, like you were there for it. You were ready, you offered resources, you after practices, but that loving detachment of this has to happen in a certain time period. It has to look a certain way. Like, I mean, firstly, committed lovingly detach, is my compass for all of my relationships. It's not as easily I feel like I think I said this weeks ago, like, I've got it down ish with my kids. And now I'm working on it with my husband, right? But it's this place of like, I'm here, I'm solid. And I get to let go of this, like vision of what it should look like has to look like how would the timeline, the timeline, oh, my God,

Julietta Skoog 43:06
that's the attachment. I have to say. Now, you all will know my password for things which is a party gras because that? No, it's good. I need to do anyway. But it's this idea of yoga teachings that when you hold on too tightly, and so a program has softening, it's not just detaching, you know, but it's like softening and the detachment and it's that letting go. It's not holding on so tightly. Yeah, that's what it is, you know, and I actually just randomly heard Oprah talking about this in a way where when we keep getting Oprah, my plug. Let me just start go back to my vision board. I'm sitting with her under her oak trees. I have to just gather up all theory, vision. Yes, yes, a team. But this idea where when you keep coming back to those same things with your kids or people Yeah, why is this keep you going back? Why is this less like this keeps coming up, we keep getting the same conflicts, that offering of like, what am I so attached to? That I need to let go that I need to soften and not hold

Casey O'Roarty 44:16
so tightly? Yeah. My friend Jeanette talks about the spiral, like life is not linear life is a spiral and you don't move through something and you're like, sweet, learned it. And then oh, it comes down. Here it is, again, and I have different skills. I have a little bit more experience in my back pocket. I think this is really good to remind everybody of teenagers who are moving into their first breakups, their first things, all the first things and then we're like, why aren't you doing this better? It's like they don't have a back pocket full of experiences to reflect on exactly. And

Julietta Skoog 44:47
then I get to I mean, just being in it now with our first breakup and our first you know, friendship stuff where I get to just use those same skills. It's like, when these things happen, I get pumped up. I'm like, yes, it's what I've been practicing for. or, you know, I get to lean in with a curiosity I get to say, Are you venting? Are you looking for advice? Are you?

Casey O'Roarty 45:05
Oh my gosh, tell me more. Yeah. All those things ask permission before you tell them what you think. Yeah. From Rowan. Yeah. So you've got something for us from our good friend Maya. And yes,

Julietta Skoog 45:17
I think this is a nice way to close because this is a quote from Maya Angelou that says, what a beautiful day, I've never seen it before. And I have it up on my mirror, because we can get into the muck with our kids. And think up seen it before. Same thing. Here we go again, here we go again, or what I hear a lot from my parents in my classes, well, yeah, I tried that, or I do that or that doesn't work with so you know, and it's

Alanna Beebe 45:45
like you just differently partner to Yes,

Julietta Skoog 45:47
maybe, maybe. But what a beautiful day I've never seen this day before, it actually was my alarm for a while to where you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know, when you try something with intention, with connection with curiosity, without attachment, how it's going to land for your kids. And so I think in the context of the practice, and the high reps, and the challengers are going to keep coming in to come in with that fresh approach, because they are in a different stage of development, you know, you are in a different stage, maybe within that continuum of change. I

Alanna Beebe 46:23
want to offer maybe like even a nother idea on top of that is if it's really hard for you to just be open to whatever. Why don't you try imagining what it could be different, like how it could look differently. You're like, oh, this is this again, instead of like, okay, I'm open to whatever, like, actually, here's the way that I can envision this being. Here's the way that I want us to show up together and to feel at the end of this right. And then you get to show up in that space.

Casey O'Roarty 46:51
Yeah. And I appreciate this is how we'll show up together. Because if you're only visualizing your kids being different, you're missing the point. This

Alanna Beebe 47:02
is how you show Yeah, that's right. So if you show up with this, this is beautiful. I've never seen this before. This is the way that I want it to be I just the way I would love for the feeling to be not like this is what they're gonna do. Right? It's like, this is how I want to feel in the relationship in this situation, you know, right, yeah.

Julietta Skoog 47:19
And also, frankly, to give ourselves that gift, because when at the end of the day, we think, Oh, I didn't handle that great or, oh, that didn't feel great. Like giving yourself the grace, to have it be a practice, you get to just start fresh, you know, kids are so forgiving. They are so flexible, like, and you know, and so giving them that grace, giving yourself the grace to be like let's start fresh. Let's

Casey O'Roarty 47:47
start again, and then start fresh, because teenagers get less flexible, and they get more of their bullshit radar starts to really fine tune. So you're gonna say, I really want to do this different to them. Do it different. I mean, of course, you're gonna make mistakes, but without the actual follow through, they're like, Okay, you know, and so anyway, that's a whole nother idea. It's under the 500 other episodes I for more on that one

Julietta Skoog 48:13
that I had a parent recently tell me that what she appreciated about the practice of taking a class you know, over the course of a few weeks was that it really called her own bullshit on see I do all these things. But really my intention wasn't there, you know. And so being able to go back and just solution focus, no blame, and just start again with a different way. Yeah, critical day.

Casey O'Roarty 48:37
This is so fun. I love Oh my gosh, I love everybody that's listening is really marinating and just one what a good time we're having. I hope that listeners and watchers that you're really feeling included in this because we can deep dive into this stuff all day long. So this is such a gift. Thank you everybody for hanging out with us for listening for watching. Next week is our last episode, which is wild perseverance for the long term. So we're gonna close things down with that focus and we'll see you then ladies. Bye

Casey O'Roarty 49:19
Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you to my spreadable partners as well as Chris Mann and the team at pod shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at be spreadable.com. Tune back in later this week for our Thursday show and I'll be back with another interview next Monday. Peace

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