Eps 542: Communicating beyond “I don’t know” with our teens

Today Joyful Courage is listening to my body, slowing down, and trusting that I am doing enough.

Transcription

JC Solo Ep 542 (1.9.25)
[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: [Music] Hi listeners, welcome back to the Joyful Courage podcast, a place for you to hopefully feel seen and heard as we talk about all the things that come with the season of parenting adolescence. Parenting teens is messy, no doubt. And when we remember that our kids are growing through what they're going through and we are too.
[00:00:24] Things can start to feel okay. We can have faith and believe that everything will turn out okay. I am Casey O'Rourke. I'm your host. I am a positive discipline lead trainer, a parent coach, and the adolescent lead at Sproutable. I have two young adult kids of my own and have been in the trenches just like you.
[00:00:43] I love supporting families. I work one on one with parents all over the world. And I run a thriving membership program. Speaking of the Living Joyful Courage membership program, doors are now open for new members. And our first community call is January 15th. We currently hold about 40 people in the membership, many of which are in their second or third year.
[00:01:06] We do twice monthly group calls, quarterly one on one calls, office hours, and have an active community forum. These are real parents moving through real challenges, showing up vulnerably. Feeling the love and support from a like-minded community. This is my very favorite way to support parents, and I want you to check it out.
[00:01:25] Go to besproutable.com/ljc and find out more. Again, that's besproutable.com/ljc. You can get more information and you can get enrolled today. The doors only open to the public once a year, and we are waiting for you. Thank you for listening to my little promo, and now let's get on to today's show.
[00:01:46] [Music] Hello, everybody. Hello, welcome back to the podcast. This is Casey. This is a solo show. My voice is super raspy. I had a super fun week last week, which culminated in one of my best friend's 50th birthday parties on Saturday over in Hood River, Oregon. We had a roller skating disco dance party for my soul sister, Nancy, and our friend's band played and we danced the night away and there was a lot of woohoo, happy birthday.
[00:02:28] And now I have a sore throat. And so my voice sounds like this, but. I gotta get the podcast out for you, so here I am. Here I am 2020 thrive, not very thrivy, but guess what? I'm going to hold it as my body's way of saying, Hey, slow down there a bit case. And I'm listening. December was a wild month and I'm glad to be settling into this time of year.
[00:02:52] This post holiday. time of year. I've got one more week with my college kid at home. Ian's been home for three weeks. We've got one more. It's been such a blast to have him. As I've mentioned, I love seeing my kids really appreciating the family time together because that's the goal, right? That's why we do the hard work to have them want to spend time with us when they don't really have to.
[00:03:19] It's so good. So good. And Living Joyful Courage Membership Program enrollment is in full swing. I wrote about this in my newsletter last week. It's so cool to me. So validating that so many of the parents in the program opt into second and third years with me. I mean, that says a lot, right? I would love to have more of you join in.
[00:03:49] The doors are open until the 15th, which is next Wednesday. Shoot me an email. If you're interested in more info, go to besproutable.com/ljc. You'll see everything that you get by enrolling for the year, all the good stuff is there on the webpage. Check it out. Let me know if you have any questions.
[00:04:11] And you know, coming into 2025, I'm working really hard this year to build the listenership of the podcast. This podcast is my favorite thing that I get to create for you. It is how you get to know me. It is my outlet for content that I really believe is useful for parents of adolescence.
[00:04:35] You tell me it's useful. And I just want all the parents across the land who are seeking out this kind of support to know it exists, to find it. I need your help. I need your help. Have you written a review on Apple Podcasts? I want to give a shout out to my really good friend, pitter patter Pat, my good friend Pat, who doesn't even have any biological kids.
[00:04:59] He works at the local community college. He runs the engineering department. He's got many adolescent kids. But he listened to one of my shows on his way home to see family over the holidays. And he wrote me a review. He wrote, "I am the holiday five stars preparing for the flight back home to the childhood family.
[00:05:18] I needed some ear candy for the plane ride. And boy was the podcast that just dropped perfect for me. I just had a lovely lunch with my mom, older brother, and childhood friend. Today's lunch helped me embody the cherished idea I took away from the podcast that I listened to yesterday.
[00:05:38] You are the holiday. You are the season. Your presence is the present. Thank you, Casey. That idea helped me put away all of the supposed-to's and just enjoy myself in the presence of family." Perfect. Rating and reviews matter so much to the show. They're encouraging to me to know that what I create lands and matters to you.
[00:06:03] They also kick the algorithm into gear and the podcast platforms are more likely to recommend the show to the parents who are looking for support. So you can rate the show on Spotify, wherever you listen, you can write a review on Apple podcast. You can share on social media.
[00:06:21] That's super useful too, as well as just shooting the link to a show that makes a difference for you to friends and family. Let's make 2025 the year that all the parents, like I said, who are looking for the joyful courage message. Find it. Thank you. Thank you for helping me on that mission. And speaking of the podcast, this week I'm again drawing from a post from the Joyful Courage for Parents of Teens Facebook community.
[00:06:53] And it's a great follow up from last week's solo show about lying. So here's what the parent wrote. "Hello, JC community. I was listening to the most recent podcast, and I love how Casey described bringing curiosity to our kids when they break agreements. In this case, it was being dishonest about screen time.
[00:07:12] I love all of the critical thinking questions that Casey offers. It's so helpful. However, What typically happens when I try to go there with my teen is that I get lots of I don't knows and non engagement, like in an extreme way and over a long period of time now with multiple attempts at various times of day, different activities, et cetera.
[00:07:35] I've been trying to build our relationship. I have weekly time together, one morning where I specifically do not bring up any parenting related topics with the focus being to just enjoy the time. Still, our relationship does seem strained and not as close as I wish it was. I feel like I'm doing the things I should to let this get better over time.
[00:07:58] I'm curious if others run into this dynamic of getting minimal response when you bring curiosity and if so, how do you navigate?" The parent goes on to write, "I love that positive discipline is not big on consequences and the concept of responsibility and privilege.
[00:08:15] Going hand in hand really resonated for me, but if there isn't room to have a meaningful conversation, I almost feel forced back into a consequence until the conversation happens with my teen engaging. And then that dynamic doesn't seem like it's going to go well either. And I really don't want to get into the parenting through power.
[00:08:37] situation largely because I don't think it works. And also I want to be protective of the long term relationship. Really appreciate any and all responses. Thank you." I am so glad this parent wrote in with this post. It's such an awesome opportunity to dig in and explore this because so many parents are in the exact situation.
[00:09:02] Thank you, listener, for this one. I even wrote some notes as I read through the, post, one of which is this is totally common. And in a follow up comment, the person that posted also wrote, that she, in many episodes, I talk about curiosity. I talk about critical thinking. I talk about my conversation with my kids and how they respond to it.
[00:09:26] But I want to be really clear and transparent that it's clunky for me too. And sometimes my kids look at me like, what are you even asking me right now? Like, it's not super deep and perfect and, smooth all the time with my kids either. Like sometimes I can't really say what I want to say. I fumble on my words or they do respond with like, I don't really want to talk about this or I don't really get what you're asking me or I don't know.
[00:10:02] So just keep in mind when we're talking about relationship, whether it's our relationship with our partners, our kids, our friends, our colleagues, it's messy. It's always going to be messy. Right? We're going to have those kind of moments where everything feels connected and like, Oh yeah, I'm nailing this.
[00:10:21] But most of the time it's going to be a little wonky, right? So the question of the post seems to be, I'm curious if others run into this dynamic of getting minimal response when you bring curiosity. into the space and how do you navigate it? I'm also reading this post and hearing the parent wonder how to navigate privileges and freedom when the teen won't engage in the responsibility conversation.
[00:10:49] And she acknowledges that the alternative seems to be power control dynamic and she isn't interested in entertaining that. So what I want to know is What's getting in this kiddo's way of expressing their experiences, thoughts, feelings to the parent? What's holding them back from engaging in conversations about responsibility?
[00:11:12] That's where I would be curious and want to focus. That's where we're going to explore today. So kind of the newer question becomes, or the reframe becomes, what's holding him back from engaging in conversations about responsibility? I read, some of Dr. Ross Green's work years ago. He wrote The Explosive Child.
[00:11:37] He wrote Raising Good Humans, I think it was called. He wrote Lost at School. He has worked for parents. He has worked for teachers. He's brilliant. He's one of my early podcast guests, and it's mostly him talking the whole time. I mean, it was just like a sermon. He's so brilliant. And anyway, his work, there's a lot that stands out.
[00:11:58] One of the things that stood out the most to me, and I was reading Lost at School as a teacher, is shifting from the idea or the belief that kids won't do one thing or the other to kids can't, right? And I think this is a useful mindset shift. And it's not about whether or not they're capable, but it is about like something's getting in the way.
[00:12:26] We often hold that our teens just won't do the things or follow through the way we want. But what happens when we hold that for whatever reason, unknown or known, they can't? When we hold that, okay, what's getting in the way? What's making it so my child can't do the things? The space opens up and we remember to consider their experience.
[00:12:52] Right? It's easier to not take things personally and to stay out of the power control struggle. And this is the lens we're going to move through as we consider tools and strategies and growth for the parent today on the show.
[00:13:06] [Chimes] So yeah, parenting tools and strategies that could be useful. I think it's important to consider. that all of our kids come with specific temperaments. Some are open books, ready to engage. They might be external processors. They might be less affected by the perception of others.
[00:13:33] These kids express, they engage, they demand to be seen and heard, sometimes in useful ways, sometimes not in such useful ways. There are also other kids that are more internal. They're thinkers, perceivers, interprocessors. You know, their tolerance window for how they're being perceived might be smaller.
[00:13:54] Some of our kids are avoiders of hard conversations. Again, tolerance is small for discomfort. They want to avoid situations that they believe will bring judgment or criticism or ridicule. Don't we all? I mean, we all want to protect our hearts. Right? We all want to protect our hearts and our sense of safety.
[00:14:16] And I think it's important for us to keep in mind that teens tend to be expected to have a pretty decent handle on their emotional intelligence, which is crazy because they don't. Many adults in our life don't have a great handle on their emotional intelligence, but our teens, they're really flying by the seat of their pants.
[00:14:41] And it might make sense to them to remain guarded, to remain closed off. So we're going to play a little bit with how to dig in. The first tool we're going to talk about as we do is, of course, communication. I often say it's important to state the obvious. So it could sound like, I notice That when I want to have a conversation about how you're feeling or thinking about specific things, you don't seem to want to talk about it.
[00:15:09] Will you tell me about that? And then zip it and listen. If you need to probe a little deeper, if you need to prompt, you could follow up with, I wonder if it feels like I'm trying to trap you into saying something and then, you know, holding you to it or judging you if you don't follow through.
[00:15:32] I wonder if you feel like I don't get it if I won't get what you're going through. I wonder if you feel like I'll dismiss you or say you're wrong. And maybe this, these questions also elicits, "I don't know," from your teen. That could be the case. And if that's the case, you can respond with, okay, you don't know what it is that's keeping you from engaging.
[00:15:55] I'm hearing that. And it's important that we talk about things. And that you're practicing being able to express what's going on with you. So I want you to think about this a little bit and we can talk more later. We can talk after dinner or in the morning, whatever works for you.
[00:16:09] The important thing is to message that, I don't know, isn't actually going to shut down the conversation. And I have some thoughts about the, I don't know, response. Sometimes they don't know. They don't have the language or experience to articulate what is getting in their way or why they're so uncomfortable sharing with you or even what's happening for them or perhaps they haven't been asked to explore what's happening for them internally and they're unsure about how or where to start.
[00:16:42] It's okay to not know and we parents can lean in a bit and encourage them to do some exploration on their own before moving on. Maybe, "I don't know," has been a useful way to shut things down or avoid conversations that they don't want to have. Maybe that has shut things down in the past. So you're going to get to lean into that a little bit.
[00:17:06] It's not a character flaw. It's something that teens learn over time as they navigate the world they live in. So again, We get to message that we hear them and the conversation is still happening. And the expectation is that they're willing to engage and explore. Right? And that brings me to another really important tool, which is being kind and firm, mutual respect.
[00:17:31] What is kind and firm? What is mutual respect? It's connecting with and respecting the person in front of you and their valid experience, while also respecting ourselves and the needs of the situation. So, What is the energy that we want to bring to this question of what's holding a teen back from engaging in conversations about responsibility?
[00:17:56] Right? We want to make sure that our energy, our vibe, our agenda embodies and animates these ideas, right? Like, this isn't about me, the parent. This is for you. I, parent, I don't have all the answers. I don't want to make assumptions. It's safe for you, my child, to express to me. I have faith in you. I'm not attached to your response.
[00:18:22] There isn't a right answer here. Your experience is valid. I believe you. I'm going to believe you. And I'm not here to change your mind or tell you that you're wrong. Right? Connecting with and respecting the other person and their valid experience, right? While also respecting ourselves and the needs of the situation.
[00:18:43] The way that I think about it is, how can I peel back the bullshit layers to get to what's real? What's real for me and what's real for my kiddo? How can I dismantle? Whatever scaffolding has been created over time, either intentionally or unintentionally, and get to the essence of what is alive. Now, this might seem kind of heady and overkill, but this is how I want to live my life.
[00:19:10] And I think it's the way that humans are meant to live, not on the surface. In the bullshit layer, but in the deep, right? Souls and spirits connecting, speaking our truths and receiving truths in a way that leaves everyone feeling valued, seen, and heard, right? Connecting with, respecting the other person and their valid experience while also respecting ourselves.
[00:19:36] And the needs of the situation. And our kids might not want to go there with us yet. So we get to keep operating from this place. We get to keep inviting them in. We get to keep it light and buoyant. energetically, even as we're saying, come on, come on into what's real to them. The energy is more of like, Hey, I see you.
[00:20:00] I know we're in a funny dynamic that keeps you from opening up. It's cool. I can be patient. I can wait. And I'm going to keep leaning in because of that is how much I love you. With a wink and a smile, right? And that firmness piece, respect for self in the situation, the needs of the situation, that kind of overlaps into the consequence convo. If we're talking about privileges, and again, as the parent listener who wrote in mentions, privileges come with responsibility. We're talking about privileges that come with responsibility, needs of the situation, needs of the privilege is the responsibility. That includes communication, being able to talk about what's going on, parent and teen being willing to share and brainstorm and listen and collaborate and give a little and take a little, right?
[00:20:55] Screens, privilege, driving is a privilege, freedom to be out in the world. Yeah. And we get to talk about all of it. Which isn't the parent talking at the teen telling them what they can and can't do, but true communication, which actually is more listening by the parent than talking. And it can sound like, I love you, I know this can be tough to talk about, and communicating helps me know you're safe and ready for the privilege of, what, screens, driving, whatever.
[00:21:29] Let me know when you're ready and we can discuss raising your curfew or lending you the car keys or, you know, allowing you on social media. Or whatever that privilege is. Communication is an opportunity for our kids to share with us in a way that helps us better know that they're ready. for the privileges of the world.
[00:21:56] And so the listener was like, well, what if they, you know, if they don't want to have those conversations, then I feel like I have to lean on consequences. Well, I mean, you don't have to lean on punitive consequences, but if my kiddo isn't willing to tell me how they're going to stay safe behind the wheel, where they're going, who they're planning on hanging out with, I don't have to, like the privilege of.
[00:22:20] Car keys, you know, we're not ready to, I'm not ready to lend them the car if they can't let me know what's going on, right? Or if they make a mistake online, you know, and we're pulling back the privilege and they're also unwilling to talk about it with us. it makes sense that the privilege is going to be, pulled back a bit and not as a care and a stick mindset or energy really about like, Hey man, this is part of the deal for this privilege is we.
[00:22:58] are going to be communicating about things like safety, right? Well, things like safety, really. So yeah, what's getting in their way and what, and holding the responsibility about whatever the privilege is, right? Does that make sense? Those are kind of the two things that I'm hearing from this parent.
[00:23:21] [Chimes] And there's a growth opportunity for us here, right? So what is it? What's the personal growth work needed to be with this, this challenge? What do we need to get let go of? What are some tips for staying grounded and regulated? And oh, babes, there's so much growth for us here, because even as I'm talking about like the soul to soul sharing and getting under the surface, you also don't need to know everything.
[00:23:55] You don't need to know, right? They don't have to tell you everything. I mean, we can be overkill, is what I'm saying. We can be overkill, We've got to trust them on some level, They get to keep some things to themselves. They're going to keep some things to themselves. We get to let it go.
[00:24:16] It isn't about you or like whether or not you're doing a good job in your relationship. It is that privacy is a thing and your kiddos deserve some. Right? The important piece is that they're sharing enough. That they know that you have their back if things go sideways or get weird. And things do go sideways and get weird.
[00:24:39] So that's part of the territory. We want to know that they can come to us and that we're willing to listen to them and believe them. And it almost makes me emotional saying that. Don't we all need this to be listened to? To be seen, to be believed, believed that our experience is real for us, that it matters to be seen in our struggle and witnessed.
[00:25:06] You might have a vision of a relationship with your teen that isn't what it will ever be. There's that too. And it's not because you're doing it wrong or bad. It's simply because humans are weird and we all have our own individual ways of relating to each other. And please know, and I speak from experience both personally As a daughter, a teen daughter, and now an adult daughter, but also as a mother of a teen daughter and now a young adult daughter.
[00:25:41] How things feel in your relationship with your kiddo right now is not an indicator of how they're always going to feel. It's just not. And you know, you get to remember what can you control. How you show up. That's what you can control. The energy that you bring, the acceptance of how things are, faith in how things are ever going to be changing.
[00:26:11] Who do you want to be in the face of uncertainty? And we could play with that language and we can ask instead, who do you want to be in the face of disconnection? Who do you want to be in the face of defiance? Who do you want to be in the face of fear, embarrassment, shock, shame?
[00:26:32] Who do you want to be? I mean, I don't know. I think there's something to focusing more on who we want to be in the face of challenging things that come at us with our teens. Parents are often so hyper focused on getting their kids to change or be different that they forget that really the most important thing they can do is to be intentional about how they're showing up for their teens, regardless.
[00:27:00] of the challenges at hand. And man, it makes sense, right? It makes sense that this is where we go, that we want to change our kids, that we want them to be different versus looking at ourselves. We have all been conditioned, right? And we have beliefs that have been woven into the lens we see the world out of.
[00:27:20] We don't know what we don't know, right? We don't always know what's conditioning and what's not, each and every one of us. And it's up to us to take the personal responsibility to be curious about that, to dig in, to question where our opinions come from, to expand our perception that includes other people's experiences and beliefs as valid, right?
[00:27:46] The experience of raising teens summons us. into that work on the daily. So I really encourage you, hear the call, right? You've got this. Things can change. And sometimes the most important thing to change is how you're experiencing your experience. You do have control over that.
[00:28:07] Right? I see you, listener who wrote in, and everyone else. I see you in your struggle, and I'm so glad that you're here listening and continuing to be curious about how you're navigating adolescence in your home. I think this particular parent, as well as many of you, you're doing all the things, right?
[00:28:27] You're doing all the things. We heard it in this mom's post. She's doing the special time. She's asking the questions. She's showing up throughout the day in different times of day. And it still feels strained. Sometimes during adolescence, things feel strained, and I am so honored that you come here and listen for learning and growing, We can all do the work to be more intentional with our kids. We can do the work of just being ever more intentional with our lives, right? With how we are moving through our world, all of us. And there's support. Like I said at the top right now, my membership program is open to new members. If you want to level up and really dig in with me and really dig into this whole idea that change starts with us and this whole idea of where we can impact how we're experiencing our experience, come to the Living Joyful Courage program.
[00:29:29] It's where it's at. It's community and coaching and content that fully aligns with this podcast. and takes everything I talk about here and in the Facebook community to the next level because the support is designed and inspired by the group. So again, I want you to go check out besproutable.com/ljc.
[00:29:51] Listen to this pod again for nuggets that you may or may not have missed. And know that I love you. I see you. I have faith in you. I know that you're capable. Take care of you. Take care of you, drink some water, take a walk, move your body, right? Remember, communication matters, kindness and firmness matters, mutual respect matters.
[00:30:15] And let me know what you think about all this because I am here for it. And if you listen to this and you have follow up questions, just like this listener did, she went right into the Facebook group and asked, Asked again. Let's peel back the layers together. I am here for it. I love it. I love it. I love it.
[00:30:33] I love you. Happy New Year again. I'll be back next week with another interview and a solo show and hopefully my voice will sound better. Uh, have a beautiful day, a beautiful weekend. Bye.
[00:30:44] [Music] Thank you so much for listening in today. Thank you so much. So much to my Sproutable partners, Julietta and Alana, as well as Danielle and Chris Mann and the team at Podshaper for all the support with getting this show out there and helping it to sound so good. Check out our offers for parents with kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay better connected at besproutable.
[00:31:17] com. Tune back in on Monday for a brand new interview. And I will be back solo with you next Thursday. Have a great day! [Music]