Eps 580: Mom Has ADHD Too – Parenting and Self Compassion with Kate Moryoussef

I think Joyful Courage is making brave choices, putting boundaries in place, and recognizing what doesn’t work for you anymore. Recognizing as we get older what we don’t wanna subscribe to… Delving into our authenticity and truly getting to know ourselves. And again, so many of us will have masked – we may not even know we’ve been masking, repressing, suppressing, pushing everything down. And I would say joyful courage is 100% choosing that authenticity and choosing what finally is good for us and not prioritizing everybody else’s needs…  because women who are just understanding themselves later on in life, we deserve it. We really do. So, yeah, I love that question. That’s great.

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescents this season of parenting. Is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey O'Roarty. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sproutable. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for. Over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] Hi everyone. Welcome to today's show. My guest today is Kate More Yusef. Kate is the author of a new book, the A DHD, women's Wellbeing Toolkit, host of an award-winning and chart topping podcast, the A DHD Women's Wellbeing Show with 2.7 million downloads to date and a women's. A DHD, lifestyle and wellbeing coach, as well as an EFT practitioner, diagnosed with A DHD at 40.
[00:01:53] Kate understands firsthand the unique challenges women face. In rediscovering their true selves while managing A DHD With over two decades of experience, she combines insights from her journey, coaching, expertise, and qualifications. To help newly diagnosed A DHD women find validation, self-compassion, and authentic empowerment.
[00:02:16] A mother of four, Kate is passionate about sharing transformative tools. That promote calm, confidence and balance in life, relationships, and work. Hi Kate, welcome to the podcast. Thank you Casey. Good to be here. Yes. I'm so glad to have you. And you're in the UK, aren't you? Yes, I am. Okay. Originally,
[00:02:34] Kate Moryoussef: well I'm from Manchester.
[00:02:35] I'm actually speaking to you today from Wales. We're on holiday with the kids. Yes. In the uk. It's great to connect. I love speaking to people from all over the world about this conversation. 'cause it's affecting so many people.
[00:02:46] Casey O'Roarty: Yes. And I just love modern technology. So talk a little bit more, fill in the gaps.
[00:02:51] I read your bio, but fill in the gaps about how you found yourself, doing what you do and serving the people that you serve.
[00:02:58] Kate Moryoussef: Yeah, so as you mentioned, I was diagnosed of 40, which is nearly five years ago, and that was alongside one of my children at the time where we were going through like everyone else during the pandemic and homeschooling.
[00:03:11] And I had already, before the pandemic sort of noticed that was, there was some stuff going on. She was only nine at the time, so it was from the age of about seven or eight, and I'd gone through different testings, but nothing really came back. So kind of. You know, substantial that we needed a formal diagnosis.
[00:03:30] I couldn't work out why she was still struggling, like why no one was able to help. And it was when I was teaching her myself that I could see, and I just kind of started Googling. And A DHD has been in my family, so I should really know what A DHD looks like. But she was a girl. It did look slightly different.
[00:03:48] And then when I was Googling, I saw this checklist of a ADHD in girls. It was like, tick, tick, tick. She had everything. And then I started to see myself through her. She was like a little mirror to me. Mm. And that is when I realized that everything that she was struggling with, I had struggled with. But as a woman, as an adult and a mother, we find coping mechanisms and scaffolding, but we also mask and we internalize a huge amount.
[00:04:14] And so I realized that I was looking at her, but essentially that was me as a child as well. So we actually got diagnosed. Around the same time, within about two or three weeks of each other back in 2020. And that is when just everything, my whole world kind of imploded and it exploded. And I realized that the women I was coaching at the time who were very similar to me, I was speaking to women who were overwhelmed.
[00:04:41] They were burnt out. They were anxious, they were ambitious. They had all the best ideas. They wanted to do everything, and then they couldn't do anything because they were then paralyzed by all the ideas that they had, and they were just ticking every single box. And I realized I was speaking to so many neurodivergent women and coaching them.
[00:05:00] And then as the years went on, as my other children were diagnosed, as we know, neurodivergence is very sort of. Genetic hereditary, and then I started seeing the symptoms in my husband in different ways. So we're basically one, I've got four kids and we're just one big fat neurodivergent cocktail. It's very neuros, spicy in my house.
[00:05:19] The awareness and the education that we've had over these past five years through all my research now doing the podcast, writing the book, the lived experience, the coaching has enabled me to, I hope. Understand this a little bit more, but I'm still learning as I go. Yeah. Yeah. How old are all your kids now?
[00:05:41] So I've got a son who is gonna be 20 in September, and then a 17-year-old daughter, a 14-year-old daughter, and a 10-year-old daughter. It's really interesting the spectrum and how it shows up and what it's shown me with all four of them is that it shows up in very different ways and there's lots of different sort of fluctuations and balances and how one kid really.
[00:06:07] Struggles in one area and but another kid, they're fine in that area. Mm-hmm. And that is why it's so important that people understand this very nuanced, very multi complex kind of topic. That it's not just a DHD looks like this, autism looks like this, dyslexia looks like that. It weaves in and out and changes and fluctuates and mutates differently throughout our life and differently in academia and in relationships.
[00:06:34] Yeah. And family life. And that is what is so important. And as well as our physical health and as women, our hormonal health and as we change, you know, and evolve through perimenopause as well. So it's really, really important that we understand this and don't just pigeonhole what. We think it is, especially in the, the way it's been stigmatized over the years and you know how a DHD, you know, looks and boys and everything.
[00:06:59] So yeah, we've still got a lot to learn.
[00:07:02] Casey O'Roarty: Well, we're gonna talk about the parenting side of A DHD and what it means to live with that diagnosis and use it and learn it, and. Be with it while also showing up as leaders of the family. But I have a question for you, 'cause this is something that shows up in clients of mine.
[00:07:20] It's more focused on the kiddos. But I would love your feedback on this. Sometimes I'll have clients that it, it's hard to differentiate between. Is this an A DHD thing or is this a teen brain development thing? You have four kids that are inside of the adolescent range of ages. That 10-year-old just creeping in the 20-year-old, getting closer to fully developed brain.
[00:07:43] All right. Ish. So with four Neurodiverse kids, is that even a conversation that you're having in your mind, or are you just. Meeting the needs and navigating what's showing up without trying to differentiate between typical versus neurodiverse spicy.
[00:08:01] Kate Moryoussef: Yeah, I think it's really. It's a, it's a tricky question because obviously when you've got four kids, they're all different.
[00:08:07] Mm-hmm. Yeah. And three girls, one boy, like I said, it shows up in D differently. I've got one very academic child, but I mean, this is my son I'm talking about, and he is, he loves academia and he loves learning, and he loves reading. That's his jam. However, his executive functioning is really challenging for him.
[00:08:28] You know, tidying, packing, sorting. You know, time management, he struggles, but he's one of those people that you would look at 30, 40 years ago. He is just like some, you know, Einstein genius, but his house is like, he can't put his clothes away. I've got another daughter who was quite anxious and everything has to be, you know, in place and there's OCD tendencies and everything's very ritualized and she's very anxious about.
[00:08:55] Perfectionism and all things like that. So I do think that we just have to work with the kids and not try and say, right, that's definitely the A DH adhd. That's definitely the, the autism. Sure. They all have their different personalities and then I. On, you know, layering over that there is the neurodiversity and how they are that that's showing up for them.
[00:09:16] And then with the girls especially, we know that the, with puberty, that is when we see a lot of, a lot of it coming to the surface as well. A lot of the rejection sensitive dysphoria. Mm-hmm. Which is very damaging to people's self-esteem. It's really impactful on friendships, but also, you know, the anxiety, the worry.
[00:09:37] So many different things. So we do have to, and I've got another daughter who is a bit more of the A DH ADHD where she's head in the clouds, very sort of like happy and daydreamy and will sail through life, but we'll forget things and not quite sort of be in the reality where she is. So yeah, it's, it's a tricky one, but I think we just have to meet them where they are in that.
[00:10:02] Zone of their life without the judgment and help them because there will be challenges, but there's also gonna be things that they're brilliant at. And I, and I really truly believe that the change that we make now is instead of focusing on all the challenges and the negativity, we really boost what they enjoy, what they're good at.
[00:10:21] We promote their self-esteem, their confidence, because it's not. Taking away or invalidating the challenges. The challenges are very real and they are there to dismiss them or invalidate them is also crushing. Sure. But to be like, okay, maybe math is a really difficult. Topic for them. But if they're amazing at writing and art and baking, then we really boost them that way because that is when we see neurodivergent kids fly, we really do see that.
[00:10:50] And that is what makes me happy.
[00:10:52] Casey O'Roarty: Mm. Well, and yeah, and the boy girl thing is so interesting as well. My daughter, you know, at 21 said to me, I think I have a DHD, and I'm gonna be honest with you, Kate, I was like. Really? Mm. And she said, yeah, and I'm gonna go and I'm gonna find out. And she did and advocated for herself and it, you know, she also ticked all the boxes and just how we still really see it one certain way.
[00:11:22] To me, I think it's like, 'cause I had a student like this a million years ago when I was a school teacher. You know, the kid that. Was impulsive and couldn't sit down and spoke out of turn and just always moving. I have a little brother who's a DHD, that was his, we put it kind of in this box and I'm so glad that there's so much more conversation about what it looks like, how it's presenting in girls, and then how it's presenting inside of that spectrum.
[00:11:47] Um, and so many, I have so many women in my life who've been diagnosed. As adult women and it, what I've heard from others is it's this relief like, oh, there's a reason I feel the way that I feel. There's a reason that I do the things that I do. How common is there even a is, I don't know if this is even an appropriate question, but like how common is it for adult women to be diagnosed?
[00:12:17] Is this a, is this a new thing or what are you finding in your work?
[00:12:22] Kate Moryoussef: So I'm not sure about the stats in the US, but I know that in the uk the rise in seeking an awareness, waiting for a diagnosis, just. The question of going to the doctor is something like 2000% rise over the past four years. Wow. It's really been astronomical because of the topicality.
[00:12:44] There's been, you know, news about it, the awareness, the conversations. My podcast has been going for three years. And I started the podcast and there was only a couple of A DHD women's podcasts out there, and I was the only podcast talking about A DHD Women and wellbeing because that's always been some, my area of interest is lifestyle and wellbeing, and that's what I was doing.
[00:13:05] I was doing the same sort of coaching and helping women sort of with anxiety and overwhelm. However, I realized that people just weren't talking about the lifestyle element. It was a DHD. Meds. That was it, right? You just go through that cycle and it wasn't like, well, what's, what's lifestyle? What's nature?
[00:13:23] What's nutrition? What's movement? What's meditation, mindfulness, all of that. Like what? This is a much bigger conversation because the meds can be very, very helpful, but sometimes they, they don't help a lot of people or they don't like the fee. People don't like the feeling on them or they don't want it to be a long.
[00:13:44] Sustainable daily lifestyle tools to help them over their lifespan, especially when we've been diagnosed in our forties, fifties, sixties, where the A DHD has been so present and so pervasive that women are desperate. They really are desperate. So what I am noticing in answer to your question is that women who have historically suffered with maybe addictive tendencies.
[00:14:10] They may have had family members with depression, anxiety. They may have had, you know, family, me members. Unfortunately, whether it's suicide or suicide ideation, people have had nervous breakdowns. People have been institutionalized. People who have just not been able to hold down jobs, relationships gone into financial, sort of, you know, debt, they've, they've not been able to hold down lives.
[00:14:34] That have had meaning to them because life has just felt so difficult. Mm-hmm. And that is why people are seeking a diagnosis because yes, they may have gone and had a, a prescription for de depression or you know, a diagnosis for anxiety, all of this. And they've been put on specific medication, but that medication hasn't quite helped.
[00:14:54] It may have sort of lessened it a bit, toned it down a bit, but it's not got to the root of the problem. And so when they're getting the diagnosis and the medication, they then put on, they go. Oh my God, is this what people are like? Mm-hmm. They walk around and there's no noise in their head and there's no constant dialogue and overwhelm and paralysis of procrastination and wanting to do everything and this, all these executive functioning challenges.
[00:15:20] I mean, it's a really huge, multi complex, multilayered constellation of things that women especially have navigated because they've not had the awareness and they've internalized it thinking it's been. Problem that they've had to solve, that they need to sort themselves out. They're lazy. They are, they're not able to hold down a job.
[00:15:42] They are constantly chopping and changing. They can't hold down relationships, they can't make money. This is internal dialogue, which is so self-destructive and we've seen it over the generations. So we are that first generation of getting the answers. We are the first generation who are being able to understand that there is a connection between physical health conditions, such as chronic pain, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, endometriosis, migraines.
[00:16:09] I mean, the list goes on. Insomnia. I. So many different, you know, issues including, you know, gut, gut issues for sure, skin issues, allergies, difficult menstrual cycles. So PMDD is very prevalent in the neurodivergent community as well as early and more difficult and challenging perimenopause. Mm-hmm. So I've had a lot of women who have come to me and said.
[00:16:33] My mum had a nervous breakdown at 42. I said, well, what do you think triggered it? She said, well, she was always quite up and down and very sort of hyper and this, and then something around that age, which obviously we now know is perimenopause kicked in. The hormones just went all over the show. The fluctuation we know is very common with neurodivergent women.
[00:16:54] And she had no, you know, HRT wasn't an option. No understanding, no one knew what was going on, and women were just left. They were just left offend, and it was, they were, it was just impossible. So it's a very, very big deal. Yeah. For this generation to now get the awareness and the validation and the support and the help.
[00:17:16] And sadly, we're only at the beginning. We're only at the beginning because. There's a lot of gps or doctors wherever you know are in the world who don't know this. Yeah. Don't understand the connection between all of this and a bit sort of dismissive and sort of say, oh, everyone's been diagnosed with a DH ADHD now, right?
[00:17:33] Oh, you're just jumping on the bandwagon and that is so destructive to someone who. Needs that help and support of a doctor. They need the therapy. It's so on
[00:17:43] Casey O'Roarty: brand when it comes to women's health. Right. Dismissive and, yeah. You know, my daughter talks about she went on medication for A DHD and she said, mom, it's like my brain has been this like disaster of a room where I can't find anything and when I take my meds, it's like everything's where it's supposed to be and I can.
[00:18:06] Initiate. I can get started. I can handle tasks. And so it's been a big game changer for her in a lot of ways, and I'm, I'm grateful for that. And by the way, I've completely apologized for being so dismissive at her initial, like, I think I have a DHD, so everyone just now that's okay.
[00:18:22] Kate Moryoussef: Everyone. There's Room Pro.
[00:18:24] There's always room to go. Like, I know totally so many people like that. My husband was like that and he's now converted to understanding what it's, but it's taken a while. So yeah, there's no. Blame. There's no blame there because how are we meant to know what we don't know? How are we meant to know whether the conversations haven't been there?
[00:18:43] You know, this is why. The podcast is growing and growing. The book's now been written. It's gonna be out in July, and it's so exciting. These conversations need to happen. Yeah. The awareness needs to grow the education across healthcare professionals in academia, in schools. We need to know this as parents.
[00:19:02] We need to understand a teenage girl. She's going through puberty and she's been diagnosed with A DHD. We need to be there and make sure that we are understanding that there's going to be. A lot more hormonal sensitivity than maybe a neurotypical girl. And even then, for a neurotypical girl going through puberty is hard.
[00:19:20] Yes. Yeah, for sure.
[00:19:33] Casey O'Roarty: How do you see A DHD getting in the way of parenting the parenting challenges that show up, um, for someone with. Who's parenting with a DHD?
[00:19:44] Kate Moryoussef: So, as I mentioned before, we know it's genetic, so there's a very high chance at least one of the parents is gonna be neurodivergent, right? And what we do know, also just anecdotally, but also we're sort of really noticing a pattern here that we kind of like to stick together.
[00:20:02] So neurodivergent people are attracted to each other, is a very high chance that. We, you know, if they're still together and it's a, it's a good marriage. The heart, it's kind of almost been quite harmonious. Mm-hmm. However, on the flip side. That might not happen and there might, there's a very much higher instance of, um, separation divorce mm-hmm.
[00:20:22] And dysfunction in the family and that can be really hard. So we're, obviously, we're working, I always see work when we are parenting neurodivergent kids. A DHD is in the mix. It's harder, it just is because we're probably a DHD. And our kid is, and we, they mirror us. So we might see ourselves as them growing up and we might want to almost control people like, well, I went through this and I don't want 'em to go through this.
[00:20:50] So we kind of go into over control. Mm-hmm. But then on the flip side, we also. We'll have executive functioning issues. So as parents we might struggle with organization with overwhelm, with just feeling quite chaotic. We're forgetful and our kids are also like that, so it can just feel like. Everything is just wound up a little bit more.
[00:21:16] The other thing that we need to be aware of is emotional dysregulation. Mm-hmm. So naughts 100 rages moods, that's a big thing. And we can flick each other's switches very easily. So in two minutes there's peace and you know, there's harmony in the house. Something happens. Someone says something and all of a sudden there's just complete chaos and we have to learn as the parents to regulate ourselves.
[00:21:42] Mm-hmm. Because if we are not regulated, then we are not raising regulated kids. Yeah. And that has been a big thing of what I. From a personal experience of growing up in a house that was quite dysregulated, that I have had to prioritize my emotional regulation, my calm, making sure that I'm coming from a place of groundedness.
[00:22:04] So when things inevitably do kick off in the house, and they always do, we can hold the thoughts for them because we need to hold that space and reteach our kids to find. Ways to regulate and it's really hard when we are battling against, you know, social media, addictions, phone addiction, TikTok, scrolling, what that's doing to our brain makeup.
[00:22:26] We still have no idea, but it's firing up, you know, the amygdala, which is like our fight or flight, which is where we are just very hypervigilant and on. So if we've got kids who are just scrolling and our amygdala's kind of like being fired up, anything can cause. A bit of a, you know Yeah. A thing in the house.
[00:22:48] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Kate Moryoussef: So there are, it is, I really, I see family members, I see friends, I see clients, my people in my community, and I see the same common denominators of what is difficult. Yeah. You know, rejection, sensitivity is a huge issue.
[00:23:04] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Talk a little bit more about that.
[00:23:07] Kate Moryoussef: Yeah, so RSD is something that when we are diagnosed with A DHD, we learn about, however we've known about it all our lives.
[00:23:14] We've just been able to get some form of kind of explanation, and very often many people who are diagnosed kind of go, oh, so that is why I've always felt so sensitive, and people have always told me I'm overly sensitive. We very easily sort of feel rejected or criticized, or any form of feedback. Feels like it's.
[00:23:34] Cutting and damaging and like physically it hurts us as well. And it's something that we can't just get over. You know, people say, just get over it. It happened two weeks ago. Mm-hmm. And there's a part of us that's just like, no, I can't get over that. That was just like, that just deeply hurt me. And we're very trusting of people.
[00:23:52] And then when someone does something and that to us. Personify something much bigger. So this, it's all about the ruminating, the overthinking, and it's just, it's so mentally exhausting all of this. So it's all being internalized and we're suppressing it and we're holding it down. We're not understanding it.
[00:24:10] We're not being able to articulate it. So I would say as a parent who is parenting a neurodiverse child, see where that RSD is showing up. Is it in friendships? Is it in your relationship? Is it at school? And really help them understand what it is. You know, I've, I've tried to explain it to my kids as well, so you have a, a propensity to feeling a lot more sensitive, a lot more emotionally.
[00:24:38] Pained when something happens. And that's because you are a deeply sensitive person, which brings fantastic, you know, you're full of empathy and you connect to people and you can read a room, but at the same time it comes at a bit of a price for your emotional safety as well. Mm-hmm. So it's, I really do believe it's about having these.
[00:24:59] Conversations and communicating. And when we get that diagnosis or we get that awareness, we can pull this apart. We remove a DHD from our personality, and we almost separate it and say, okay, that's the A DHD, that's the RSD. That's where it's showing up. How can we understand the triggers, but can we also find a way where it doesn't feel as painful where we.
[00:25:23] And more empowered where it doesn't feel like we're being controlled by something. Mm-hmm. That we can reclaim that control because we can. Yeah. But we can't claim control over something we don't understand or don't know about. Right. And that is why I'm so passionate about creating this awareness because it destigmatizes and takes the intensity and the extremity away from it all.
[00:25:45] Because to live a life, and again, I've spoken to so many people who've lived 60 years of their life not understanding themselves. Not understanding why they felt this deep emotional pain and this sensitivity. Thinking it's like a personality defect and then they understand, they go. So it's not been something that I've really been able to control, and that for them is very sad.
[00:26:08] There's a huge amount of grief, but it's also very freeing as well. So it comes with lots of layers to it. So for me, the earlier the diagnosis and the understanding, the better For sure.
[00:26:19] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and what I'm hearing you, so a couple things. Putting a pin in the self-regulation piece. 'cause I think so many life challenges are actually self-regulation challenges.
[00:26:31] I mean, and I think that that fits inside of this broader conversation around learning how to be observers of ourselves, learning how to see ourselves inside of. What we're moving through so as to bring that curiosity and a deeper understanding of the why and perhaps where certain beliefs have come from.
[00:26:53] I think that's such a powerful practice for anybody regardless of neurodiversity. And I just love the idea of always, the more we can learn about ourselves, the less we're just passengers on the emotional freight train to. Chaos land. You know, I mean, I wrote a little book a while back and that was the whole, the whole metaphor was this emotional freight train.
[00:27:19] And sometimes it picks us up and we're not paying attention and we just know we're pissed or we're emotionally flooded. But even inside of that, like, oh, I'm emotionally flooded right now, having the ability to. Be present enough inside of our experience to recognize that we're having an experience so that we can then have just the tiniest amount of space.
[00:27:42] To make a choice, right? Am I gonna carry on inside of this or am I gonna do something to take care of myself? And my guess is you've got some tools and strategies for the clients that you work with when they notice that that emotional overwhelm or that. Rejection, sensitivity or whatever is showing up and derailing their experience that help them kind of move back into that place of empowerment.
[00:28:07] So what are some of those strategies that you work with your clients on to get more into that place of regulation and just that empowered self?
[00:28:19] Kate Moryoussef: Absolutely. I think the word emotional flooding is really on point there because it can just feel like we have no control and it comes over us. I mean, we're just like flooded with rage or anger and we, and there's physical
[00:28:33] Casey O'Roarty: sensations.
[00:28:34] I mean, it's emotional, it's physical. There's like all this storytelling. I mean, it gets pretty wild.
[00:28:40] Kate Moryoussef: It is. It really is. So I think a hundred percent we have to have that awareness of understanding like what is triggered it. And I talk about, you know, the window of tolerance in this respect because we all need to understand what that window of tolerance is.
[00:28:54] So if we know. That we have been at work all day and we've not properly eaten and we've not been outside and we've not moved our body and we are probably dehydrated. And then we get stuck in traffic and then we've scrolled and all of this, and then we get home. And then parent three kids who have all got home work we need to do.
[00:29:14] Car pools and this and that, and then we need to make dinner and do all the washing. Oh my gosh. You're triggering me right now, Kate. Yes, because we've all been there. We have to, like you say, take responsibility and say, right, how is this not gonna impact my family life? Like, how am I going to show the, the best version of myself I can with the resources and the situation I'm currently in?
[00:29:37] And we have to take responsibility, so. Can I get outside during lunch? Can I ensure that I've eaten a good meal and made sure that I've got a flask of water? Can I make sure that maybe I've spent some, I've done some breathing exercises on the way home from work, or if I'm on public transport, can I put some music on and just like close my eyes and do some mindfulness or meditation?
[00:30:00] Find little ways because they're always there and it doesn't have to be. For half an hour or an hour. It can be five minutes here, 10 minutes there, making sure like creating little rituals of. I noticed that when I'm starving hungry and not eating properly or I've been stuck in traffic, my anger levels go sky high.
[00:30:20] Mm-hmm. Or I need to just totally decompress and sit in a dark room and, and I can't do that 'cause I've got kids. There are so many different things that we can do to reclaim little bit of that calm and regulation. I talk about a lot of them in my book because a nervous system is something that we need to acknowledge.
[00:30:39] And we need to acknowledge our nervous system because there's a very high chance that we have been living in a state fight or flight or hypervigilance for most of our life because we've not understood ourselves. There's a very high chance, or we've been trauma. Mm-hmm. However you want to look at trauma from childhood, from school, from parents, from growing up, from not understanding how our brain works from.
[00:31:04] Being in jobs that might not fit us being in relationships that don't suit us, and our nervous system will just have been in this state of real sort of fight or flight that is unable to relax and is unable to feel safe and is unable to feel calm and what impact that is having on our family. And I know from speaking to a lot of people in this community of women in their forties and fifties, there's a lot of cycle breakers out there.
[00:31:31] There's a lot of parents who have not been parented the way they would want, and they're trying to change things so they can be the cycle breakers, but we need to understand what is causing the triggers. Mm-hmm. What, what they are. So it really is those small micro. Daily practices, even just not going straight on our phones and scrolling and looking at all the terrible things that go on in the world.
[00:31:56] Choosing not to do that and saying, right, I'm gonna wake up this morning and I'm gonna just do two minutes of breath work and I'm gonna visualize a day. Sometimes I do this and I really helps. I go through my day and I know what there is, what meetings I've got. You know, if I'm meeting a friend or I've got a yoga class and then I've got.
[00:32:13] Work all of this and I visualize it all going and it's just calm and it's steady. And yes, there's a few, I always say it's like we want a a sea that is sort of, we're able to navigate the waves because there's always gonna be waves, but we don't wanna be on this permanently sort of choppy, stormy sea where we're just constantly clinging on and white knuckling, and that is what we need to aim for, that there's going to be stressors, there's gonna be things that are gonna be difficult, especially as we get older.
[00:32:42] And it's how we maintain this all from a grounded place so we can find this equanimity, I would say. Mm-hmm. Come back to ourselves, find the breath, find the movement, find what works for me. Sometimes I just say to my kids, I need to just go and have a bath. I'm going in the bath and I need to sit in the bath and there's your dinner, whatever that is.
[00:33:07] Unless there's an emergency, don't interrupt me. Mm-hmm. And they've honored that. And for me, that bath is like cleansing. I put lots of salts and oils in and I come out a different person. And that for me is how I break the day up. And I come back downstairs and I'm like, okay, I'm ready now, type thing.
[00:33:24] Yeah. We have to find those things.
[00:33:36] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and I appreciate that you used the words take responsibility, right? Yeah. I think that that is the call for all of us, right? Regardless of what is hard, I think it's really easy to sit inside of all of the reasons that things are hard and you know, because of my own experience and working with others, there can be a little bit of resistance around, no.
[00:34:00] All of these people need to be different so that I can feel better. And it's so empowering to realize when we tap into a willingness to take care of ourselves and to take responsibility for our day, like it's, yes, it's for everyone else. But first and foremost, the way that I think about it, it's for me.
[00:34:22] I get to experience my experience differently when I take time for, and I have a whole morning ritual that, you know, that I lean into, I call it my soul care. And there are mornings that there isn't time, but there are a lot of mornings where I'm at a choice of, man, I could dive into some work and get a few things done, or I could do my soul care and you know, nine times outta 10.
[00:34:47] I'm doing my soul care. 'cause everything that comes after that is going to be met from a better place. Right? Yeah. I show up better because of that. And I'm also hearing you just talking about the cycle breakers and how deeply rooted some of our patterns can be, and that fight or flight space, as much as it feels chaotic, my guess is it also feels familiar.
[00:35:09] And so yeah. I'm guessing you also work a lot with people around self-compassion as they move into trying to do things differently and creating new practices. But still finding themselves in that, you know, space that isn't as useful as they want it to be. Remembering that practice is practice. Practice takes time, practice makes better.
[00:35:29] You know, it's not a calm sea that you were just talking about. There continues to be waves. The more that we can practice, the more that we can kind of shave off the choppiness of the external experience and give a little bit more of a smoother sailing if we're going with this metaphor. So I really appreciate that.
[00:35:50] Kate Moryoussef: I think what you said about the self-compassion, that for sure is everything. Yeah. It really, really is. Because we are gonna lose our rag. We are gonna have these emotional moments. No one is perfect. Parenting is difficult. Throw neurodiversity into the mix. It's even more challenging. And we have to see ourselves with self-compassion that we're all growing, that we're evolving, and.
[00:36:13] It's okay to be where we are because that is just where we are. Mm-hmm. You know, and we, where we get different resources and we grow and then we change. And I work with EFT, which is Emotion of Freedom, which is tapping.
[00:36:28] Casey O'Roarty: Talk about that. Talk about that as if we've never heard of it before. Like give us the kindergarten explanation of EFT and tapping.
[00:36:35] 'cause it's fascinating to me and I know this much, which is Yeah. I
[00:36:39] Kate Moryoussef: love
[00:36:39] Casey O'Roarty: it.
[00:36:40] Kate Moryoussef: So I started training in tapping before I got my A DHD diagnosis. But what I noticed, I had a session with an amazing therapist who specialized in it, and I was like, this is incredible. Like it was so efficient, it was so effective.
[00:36:56] It helped me. In the moment in the thing that I was really struggling to get over and I was like, this is unbelievable. I've never come across it. So then I went to train in it and what it is we're tapping on different points around our face and our upper body and our hands, and they are meridian points, which are like energy.
[00:37:16] Spaces or blockages, whatever you want to call it, and we blend it with physical tapping and more western psychology of self-acceptance and self-compassion. So we're physically somatically de blocking these meridians, allowing the flow. But what it comes with is we are almost releasing stagnated energy.
[00:37:40] We're releasing stagnated emotions. So a lots of people get very emotional with it. Mm-hmm. They have profound perspective shifts. They gain new awareness or understanding compassion. Forgiveness is a huge thing and it's, it's unbelievable. It's literally just tapping the meridian points is being activated and de blocked.
[00:38:01] Casey O'Roarty: And everybody who's listening, I just wanna point out that Kate is tapping this above her eyebrows and around her eyes and under her eyes. Above
[00:38:12] Kate Moryoussef: the lip chin above the lip collar bone, and then it's, you've got like by your bra strap and some people can tap on their heads and you've got your hand. This is a karate shop area.
[00:38:24] Uhhuh. I have lots of videos, like free resources on my website and I've also got a section on it in my book because it's about self-regulation. Love it. EFT. You can literally say, I'm so resentful right now and just. Basically just use it as almost kind of like a, a venting. Mm-hmm. But what will happen is the more you just say, I'm so angry.
[00:38:45] While tapping, while tapping, while tapping. Mm-hmm. We really lean in. You go, why did they do that to me? Why did he do this to me? Why is everyone this to me? I'm so overwhelmed. Whatever you want to say. Something will happen where you'll gain perspective. I always say it is that we hover out, we sort of, yes.
[00:39:04] Zoom out. Yeah. And we see the bigger picture. Mm-hmm. And it allows us, it gives us a space to breathe. It allows us to vent. But if you don't want to, I say to people, you don't have to speak. You can literally just tap on these points and each point we just breathe. So it's just. Like all the way around. And you can do that two rounds in two minutes.
[00:39:27] And I say that's one of the best self-regulation tips to do. You can do that in the shower, the car, you can do it while walking. I. It calms the nervous system. It's directly with this research saying that it reduces tap. I think tapping reduces cortisol in the body by like 40 or 50%. Ooh, it works with the amygdala.
[00:39:48] Again, this apart in our brain, which senses danger and is there rooted for safety, it relaxes the body. So it's a fantastic tool for kids as well. I've used it for kids with anxiety for, you know, going to sleep for nightmares. We've used it for so many things. Phobias, just anything. I often do it if I'm just feeling a little bit socially anxious.
[00:40:13] And I'll just tap a little bit and just say, oh, I don't wanna go to this thing. I'm not in the mood. Da da da. Mm-hmm. And then suddenly will come to me and say, oh, this person's actually gonna be there. Or maybe you can just sit in the corner and speak to her. That really lovely person that you know, and it's, it's.
[00:40:28] A really accessible tool to found, to find more self-empowerment and to recognize we do have more resources and reserves within us, and then we think we do. And that's why I love it so much because it always gives you something no matter what, where it meets you, where you are. I could talk about EFT for ages and I don't even.
[00:40:48] People specialize in so many different parts of it. You know, this is what I use. I use it a lot for self-regulation. Some people use it for trauma and PTSD. Some people use it for. Almost kind of, it sounds a bit woo, it's like an energy. Mm-hmm. And they can connect to, to other people if they're really struggling with forgiveness or resentment mm-hmm.
[00:41:10] A breakdown in that relationship. And something always shifts. And the most amazing thing, which I love it when I, I do this a lot, is in a child work. Mm-hmm. So, so when we need to go back and we need to heal that in a child, and it's a huge part of the grief side of A DHD is Yeah. Here's my little girl.
[00:41:31] Casey O'Roarty: I'm showing Kate a little picture of me from fourth grade that I keep close by 'cause I wanna make sure she is realizes everything's okay. Everything's okay girl. Yeah, yeah. That is it. And the tapping can do that. Yeah, I have, tapping has come up so much for me that this is the final time that it's gonna come up without me doing some deep diving.
[00:41:52] And I'm absolutely, I already have poked around on your website, Kate, and I'm absolutely gonna go back and really learned from the resources that you provide. And listeners, I'm gonna make sure that all those links to Kate's website and her book. Is there a pre-order going on right now for your book?
[00:42:11] Kate Moryoussef: Yeah, so it's out July 17th, I think, in the uk and then maybe around the 23rd in the us. Okay. But it's available anywhere you wanna buy books. Great. And you can pre-order it now and then it'll be delivered
[00:42:23] Casey O'Roarty: to you on the publication date. Great, great. 'cause I think this will go live before then, so I'll make sure that everybody can get their hands on their pre-order.
[00:42:30] And this was so great. Thank you so much for the work that you do. For parents, for Women, I am really excited to share your podcast with my daughter in hopes that that'll be really useful for her as well. And probably for me, it would probably be really useful for me to listen to in supporting her and maybe even supporting myself a little bit.
[00:42:51] Right. Is there anything else you wanna share before we close today? Thank you. I've loved this conversation
[00:42:58] Kate Moryoussef: and I do think that, I mean, I'm still learning and I've had, you know. 400 conversations on the podcast with different experts and specialists in this area, and I will never tire of mm-hmm.
[00:43:11] Advocating for women's health. Yeah. Alongside neurodiversity. Because, you know, you said, I think at the beginning of this conversation, it's like I. How many people have got this or like, what percentage is this? And I genuinely think there's a lot that the percentage is higher than we think. I mean, at the moment, the rough estimate is around one in five.
[00:43:31] Mm-hmm. Uh, if you know of someone who has struggled with a few different things, we need to start looking at neurodiversity and not just the mental health side. Yes. And recognizing that we've been made to fit in a world that hasn't been quite right for us. In schooling, in careers, living in cities, a lot of people who are neurodiverse much prefers to being outdoors, nature being in the open space, and so we recognize in all these nervous systems are just not regulating.
[00:44:02] The modern world. So maybe back before all this tech and all this craziness of just being on the whole time neurodivergent, people were thriving, they were okay. Mm-hmm. They were busy, they were outside, they were getting movement, they were eating whole food. But as. The world has got much harder and much more frazzling for so many nervous systems.
[00:44:27] It's coming to the surface a lot more. Yeah. So it's really important that people recognize how important lifestyle is. Lifestyle choices, what we do with our body, how we sleep, what we eat, how we spend time in nature. If we are not spending time in nature, all of this can. It's not gonna get rid of your A DHD, but you're gonna live and thrive better understanding yourself so you can.
[00:44:52] Live well with it and we can tend to ourselves properly and not just keep pushing it back. Pushing it back, yeah. Because I don't think we're meant to be in this burnout state the way we are. I think we can thrive and I think we can live well, but we have to make different choices to help us thrive. So I guess that's probably my last thing
[00:45:11] Casey O'Roarty: to say.
[00:45:11] Kate Moryoussef: Yes,
[00:45:12] Casey O'Roarty: true. That different choices. Oof. My last question that I ask all my guests, because my show is called Joyful Courage. What does joyful courage mean to you, Kate?
[00:45:23] Kate Moryoussef: I think it's probably making brave choices, making, putting boundaries in place, recognizing what doesn't work for you anymore. Recognizing as we get older what we don't wanna subscribe to, like who we are, like.
[00:45:36] Delving into our authenticity and truly getting to know ourselves. And again, so many of us will have masked hiding. We may not even know we've been masking, repressing, suppressing, pushing everything down. And I would say joyful courage is 100%. Choosing that authenticity and choosing what finally is good for us and not prioritizing everybody else's needs because women who are just understanding themselves later on in life, we deserve it.
[00:46:06] We really do. So, yeah, I love that question. That's great.
[00:46:10] Casey O'Roarty: Well, thank you for that answer. It's beautiful. Where can people find you and follow your work?
[00:46:17] Kate Moryoussef: So if you head to a adhd, women's wellbeing.co.uk, my website's there, it's under construction. We're changing it, it's still there. All my resources are on there.
[00:46:26] I've got so many on-demand workshops, free resources. If you want to learn, you know about lots of different subjects. I've got lots of these hour long workshops that you can watch. The podcast, A DHD, women's Wellbeing Podcast that's there. And then obviously the book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit. So.
[00:46:45] It's all there under the same bracket. There's a lot of help in those spaces, you know, free or paid for. So I hope people will get to find that.
[00:46:54] Casey O'Roarty: Beautiful. Thank you so much for spending time with me today.
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