Joyful Courage to me is, you know, going into challenges in life and realizing that you’re really just excited for this opportunity that’s in front of you.

Resources:

Breathwork Detox — virtual breathwork sessions and trainings
Website: breathworkdetox.com
Use code Podcast50 for 50% off virtual session tickets

Kurtis Lee Thomas on Instagram: @manfromthestars

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescents this season of parenting. Is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth. And man, the opportunities abound. Right. My name is Casey O'Roarty. I am a parent coach, positive discipline, lead trainer, and captain of the. Adolescent ship over at Sproutable. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] Hi listeners. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm really excited to introduce you to my guest today. His name is Curtis Lee Thomas. Curtis is one of the most sought after speakers when it comes to mental health. He's worked with top Fortune 500 companies and organizations from Nike to nasa. He's the founder of the Just Breathe Foundation that works with global brands, athletes, and celebrities to help bring awareness and solutions to the mental health epidemic that currently plagues our families.
[00:01:57] With his breath work detox modality. Curtis teaches people how to release stress, trauma, and anxiety, everything through diaphragmatic breathing. I am super excited to have him on the show. Hi Curtis. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:11] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Hey, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
[00:02:13] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, so you've worked with some really big companies, which is super exciting and.
[00:02:21] What I'm learning about you is that what's really lighting you up is your work with families. Can you start by telling us what brought you to Breathwork and why you believe it's such an important tool? For parents right now?
[00:02:34] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yes. Oh, man. Well, the, the story is a journey of how I got to breath work. Yeah.
[00:02:41] And, you know, I was always in this mindfulness, you know, healing space. Uh, over a decade and a half ago I started as a, a life coach and then a hypnotherapist, and then reiki master sports science, fitness professional, and, you know, is collecting these certifications. So it's always been in the space. But when, um, I got sick, something happened to my stomach and doctors couldn't diagnose me, nevermind fix me.
[00:03:08] So, you know, when you have gut issues, you know, you have major issues, you have all issues, you know? Mm-hmm. And because the gut, you know, brain connection. And for five years I suffered, I. And I did everything to the point. I started getting really desperate and started venture out into plant medicine. And it, whatever you told me, if you said it was gonna fix me, I would've done it.
[00:03:28] And I ended up finding this ancient breathing technique that, um, my CNT, which uh, is a Chinese, uh, Taoist tummy massager. And that was one of my modalities I was trying at the time. And she put me onto this technique and I did this technique. And in one session it completely eradicated my stomach condition.
[00:03:47] And I couldn't wrap my head around how that was possible because I'm very skeptical. I'm very analytical. I gotta see it to be, to believe it. Very logical. And I did all these different things. I mean, I was spending tens of thousands in copayments. You know, I had insurance, uh, trying to fix myself, the best doctors, and did every test imaginable.
[00:04:09] And this little silly breathing technique is what did it for me. Mm-hmm. And you know, I later found out. The reason why those doctors couldn't tell me what was wrong with me is because my issue wasn't physical. It was energetic. It was emotional. Mm. And you know, they don't, they don't have those skills, you know, and I think that's the future of, you know, medicine where Eastern medicine meets Western medicine.
[00:04:30] So, you know, because I've done so many thi tried so many things, I. This was it for me. I was like, man, the world needs to know about this because I was already in the space for over a decade and didn't know this technique existed. So, you know, I started even bringing it to, you know, yoga teachers who'd been teaching for 20 years and they're like, oh no, I've done breath work.
[00:04:49] I've been, you know, I did pranayama in India. And I was like, just try this one technique with me. And they sit down with me and they do the technique and I. Completely blow their minds like, oh my God, I had no idea that existed. And then I started certifying yoga, yoga teachers to teach my modality. So I knew I had something then, and I knew that was the moment I was gonna bring it to the world.
[00:05:07] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And talk to me about how that bridged into focusing on families.
[00:05:14] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Well, I mean, families are people, and my goal is to come here and to help, you know, people like, you know, even myself at the time, I was a single dad and me and my daughter were living in California. So I'm struggling. Probably the worst I've, I've been.
[00:05:30] And you know, I'm also trying to raise my daughter, you know? Mm-hmm. And when I'm co-parenting and, you know, she chose to live with me. So technically a single dad raising a daughter, um, you know, and, and when I got better, I. Her life got better.
[00:05:44] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:44] Kurtis Lee Thomas: That's how simple it is when it comes to parenting.
[00:05:47] Mm-hmm. So, you know, given these, these tools, you know, to parents so they can live better lives, I think that's what it's all about.
[00:05:55] Casey O'Roarty: I love that. I love that because I think that there's still a lot of people who are so focused on what is showing up with their kids and their behaviors, especially when we.
[00:06:09] Think about adolescents and adolescent brain development and the novelty seeking and the mistake making. I think, I know for me, a lot of parents come and are like, help me fix my teen Things are going terrible with my teen. And, you know, helping them understand and appreciate and find willingness to work here inside of their own experience and how they're experiencing their teen and, and making shifts.
[00:06:38] Internal shifts. I find that it's, it's so empowering to realize like, okay, I don't have to have the answers for fixing, you know, I'm quoting like air quotes, fixing my teen. I can actually work on me and it ripples into the dynamic that I am part of with my kiddo. And so I'm really excited and curious.
[00:07:02] 'cause I think a lot of the drama and challenge and struggle that comes. During this season of parenting really has a lot to do with dysregulation. Like so many of the challenges and the fires that we're adding kindling to really is because we're in such a reactive state, right? And we're not taking that time to pause and ground and settle and really like be curious about our own responses.
[00:07:34] To what's happening in the external and yeah. And so, so talk about how something as simple as breathing, which we do unconsciously and unintentionally all day long, how can that shift us out of that reactive, dysregulated state with our teens who are just basically moving through the teen years?
[00:07:59] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Exactly.
[00:07:59] You know, first of all, looking at them as, as mini, mini mes, right? Uh, uh, the, the version of us then, and it's our job as parents to find the tools to help us regulate our nervous systems.
[00:08:11] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And
[00:08:11] Kurtis Lee Thomas: being reactive, you know, is. You know, that's the part of us that we really need to be more mindful of, but being more mindful of being reactive.
[00:08:21] You know, when you have a tool like breathwork, it now gives you something to do to help you with that reactiveness because you know, it was actually at that time in, when I was living in California, I'm living in Utah now, and you know, me and my daughter were bumping heads a lot. And this is when she, you know, wanted to live with me.
[00:08:40] And then this is my first time being a real parent when you gotta do it by yourself, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, this is different. This isn't the same. So, um, you know, she was very, she was very reactive. Okay. Let me, let me blink shift really quick. Um. Super reactive and you know, always like, you know, just hotheaded at the time.
[00:09:00] And then, you know, I have to make the point that, you know, I'm the authority figure. I'm the father, you know, I know what's right and I just could not quote air quotes, control her.
[00:09:11] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:12] Kurtis Lee Thomas: And I literally was like the greatest epiphany. And I realized when she was being reactive, that was my moment to choose to be.
[00:09:21] You know, counter reactive, really just to prove a point. And it was really a power struggle. And when I realized that, okay, you know, I started to practice, okay, if she's gonna do this, I could say this right now because I know it's right and I know it's gonna prove a point, but what is that gonna do to her?
[00:09:40] Right. It's gonna make her more reactive. And then we go back and forth. So I started quote unquote, biting my tongue, right? Not the biting in the tongue where you're, you know, not speaking your truth, the biting of your tongue where you're not being reactive and saying unnecessary things. And when I started to control me, I.
[00:09:58] I was able to control her.
[00:10:00] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:01] Kurtis Lee Thomas: All air quotes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, you know, that was a huge epiphany. I was like, wow, it's really, it's me. Mm-hmm. You know, I'm, I'm the problem. Even though she's the one that's, you know, being reactive and whatnot. I was the problem. Mm-hmm. Because I was trying to prove a point, I was trying to do this and that.
[00:10:17] And when I learned how she operates. And then I kind of mapped that out of how not to press her buttons and her triggers and to Yeah, navigate being a parent. Right. That is skills that you develop. Yeah. As a parent. And just like the saying goes, you know, know thyself, right? Know thy kids because they're really many versions of us.
[00:10:40] You know? So that was a beautiful experience and you know, and then, you know, having breathwork as a tool, you know, I think. That's gonna be a game changer for most parents because, you know, I didn't have those tools at the time and that's when I started to develop those tools and when I did everything shifted.
[00:10:58] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I love, you know, there, there are mini us, there are mini mes with far less skills. Yes. Right. I don't think that we can say that enough. Right. I think. You know, when we have teenagers, I mean, my 19-year-old is six four. He looks like a full grown man, and his brain is still in development.
[00:11:21] It's hard because my eyeballs are seeing one thing, but my brain is having to remind me he is still in development of learning life skills. And by the way, case I'm telling myself there are plenty of adults that are still struggling with. These life skills around self-regulation, self-control, perspective taking.
[00:11:45] And I love the idea of when, as you were talking, I was thinking about how we're so quick to get into a power struggle. I. And what happens when we instead of like, you know, meeting their bigness with our own bigness, instead we saw like a, when they're, when we invite a softening into that dynamic, the whole intensity of it can lessen and everybody can feel a little bit safer and a little bit less defensive and.
[00:12:18] We get to move in that direction of connection and solutions and, you know, just feeling felt and, and, and understood. So I'm really curious. So you, we keep saying breath work and, and I'm thinking like, okay, I'm remembering some very vivid memories of being. Activated by my then 14-year-old who I kept catching with nicotine vapes.
[00:12:46] And I remember one particular time going into my room and being like, okay, fuck, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna breathe. And it was, I was basically hyperventilating. I mean, I was take, I, you know, it's like, okay, no, I know I need to lengthen my breath. I need to, but in my mind, I was still spinning out on. God damnit, why can't I get this thing to stop?
[00:13:09] Okay, I'm gonna breathe, I'm gonna calm down. So when you talk about breath work, what does that mean to you? Beyond just like what we do every day, which is, you know, breathe.
[00:13:21] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah. So that's the thing about, you know, breathing and, and the lungs is that. It's the only system in the body that is voluntary and involuntary, meaning we can control it.
[00:13:32] And then it also just works on its own. So breath work is a umbrella term and it could get confusing even though it's so simple. But that umbrella term, there's so many different breathing techniques that fall under it. Uh, box breathing, 4, 7, 8, you know, method and straw breathing and alternate nostril breathing.
[00:13:51] You know, there's a. Uh, a dozen of popular ones that, you know, people might say, oh, I heard of that. And then there's the one that. I created, which is breathwork detox, which is a form of the deep diaphragmatic breathing. Mm-hmm. And then that particular modality, that's the most powerful breathing technique that you can use.
[00:14:10] It's extremely somatic, cathartic. You know, that's where a lot of people have breakthroughs. That's where I had my breakthrough. That's why, you know, at least 50 to 60% of the people who go through, you know, one of my deeper sessions end up crying. It's not because they're, they're wimpy or weak. You know, I've done this for the most masculine men in the world, from NFL players to navy seals to prison in maim, you name it.
[00:14:34] Um, but it's just so powerful and we can get into that later on of, of why that happens. And then you have, uh, breathing techniques that what, we'll just say that one clears out your sympathetic nervous system in any. Stored or accumulated stress or trauma. And then the other breathing techniques bring you back into your parasympathetic nervous system, which is your rest and digest.
[00:14:55] You know, it's connected to nose breathing and you know, 99.9% of the time we should be breathing through our nose. Right. To get into that, you know. Rest and digest in the fight or flight, you know, that sympathetic nervous system. So, you know, I use just a handful of techniques myself because you know, I can juggle, like I can get one ball thrown in there.
[00:15:15] I can throw two balls in one. I can actually juggle three balls. But the moment you throw a fourth ball in there, all the balls fall to the ground.
[00:15:22] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:22] Kurtis Lee Thomas: I can't do it, you know? So sometimes when we have too much information, we do too little with it. So what I do is when I either train people. Or I'm sharing breath work.
[00:15:34] I only share the most potent and powerful techniques, um, in my personal opinion that we can use in real life situations. 'cause I think that's where it matters the most. So if there's a real life situation, you can tell me what it is and I'll tell you what my technique is.
[00:15:50] Casey O'Roarty: You put me on the spot. I'm not, uh, well, I mean, one thing that my listeners know and I share in my newsletter that is really alive in our family is.
[00:16:01] My husband has multiple myeloma, which is a blood cancer, and he was diagnosed in 2020 and went through treatment. And what treatment does with this particular type of cancer, the way that I make sense of it, is the medicine can help. The cancer go dormant for a period of time until the cancer gets smart enough to find the workaround.
[00:16:24] And so we're currently in a flareup. He is currently in a flareup, and so he's back in treatment. And while I will, you know, something that I think is really. I'm really grateful just about my own personal growth and mindset. You know, we have a lot of lightness and a lot of love and a lot of connection inside of this really heavy situation and diagnosis.
[00:16:52] But there are definitely times where, you know, when he is in between jobs, so there was a lapse in insurance and we had to do Cobra and. You know, this is one of those situ, I mean, I'm 51 years old and when I have to deal with insurance companies, I'm like, where's my mom? Like, this is something my mom should have to, I'm a, I'm a kid here.
[00:17:12] Right? It just feels like so confusing. And those are, those are the things that, that paperwork, that needing to know these technical things that really can dysregulate me and bring stress into my life. So for something like that, in those moments where it's like, oh God, I don't understand. And I'm scared.
[00:17:32] What would be a technique that would be useful?
[00:17:35] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah, so the, what I heard was stress and overwhelm.
[00:17:38] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:39] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Right? Yeah. Yes. So that's what I was looking for. Is it stress over, you know, overwhelm. Is it,
[00:17:43] Casey O'Roarty: thank you for distilling my many detailed story down.
[00:17:48] Kurtis Lee Thomas: I mean, at the end of the day, this is your first
[00:17:49] Casey O'Roarty: time,
[00:17:51] Kurtis Lee Thomas: it's what it comes down to, right?
[00:17:52] Yeah. Uh, sometimes it's fatigue and you need to get oxygen into your system, and I would show them the espresso breath and, you know, but for, you know, overwhelm. I'll give you an example. The body is extremely intelligent, right? Mm-hmm. It's the most advanced biomechanical machine on the planet. And when the body naturally, this is what it naturally does, feels, uh, accumulated stress or accumulated pain, or whenever there's a buildup, the body will go like this, it builds up, and then it does this.
[00:18:25] Okay? A sigh of relief. Okay? So. It didn't do it through its nose, we did it through the mouth.
[00:18:36] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:37] Kurtis Lee Thomas: So the body build up, build up, build up, and then it let out a big sigh through the mouth. The mouth is an energetic exodus, so whenever you're looking to release and let go, you're gonna exhale through the mouth.
[00:18:49] Mm-hmm. So what I like to do is. You know, if you were just to do three size in a row and when you breathe it in, right, you breathe in all the air. Now these are conscious size. We talked about what the body does naturally, but guess what? We can induce that for the same effect, if not more, because we're gonna, every side that we do peels away a layer of stress.
[00:19:11] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. Awesome.
[00:19:12] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Awesome. So really what Breathwork detox is, it's deep sessions where we continuously do loops of that type of breathing, right? Two breaths in, one breath out. In through the mouth. Out through the mouth, which is the only time you should be breathing through your mouth is through this particular modality, and you just melt away the layers all the way down to the traumas, and then you start releasing those.
[00:19:31] That's how profound it is. But let's go. Let's take it really simple. You can just take a three size in right now. We can do it together on the podcast, right?
[00:19:39] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:40] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah. The focus is once you get up right, you're gonna wanna hold it. But I, I don't want you to hold on to the breath. I don't want you to hold on to anything.
[00:19:48] In fact, when you release that sigh, I want you to release something else along with it. Something that doesn't serve you anymore, something you've been holding onto, right? And when you let that sigh out, let it be loud and let it be obnoxious, right? So we're gonna do three obnoxiously, loud sigh and a release.
[00:20:07] And when you release, just let go of your entire body. So we're gonna breathe in through the nose all the way to the top to where completely filled, and then just let it out. Okay? Three together, play on three. One. Two, three,
[00:20:37] just those three little sides. How do you feel?
[00:20:40] Casey O'Roarty: I feel lighter. Um, I feel possibility and I feel, I feel capable and I think that is based on what it was that I let go of.
[00:20:58] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Hmm. And you know, it's beautiful when, when you said possibility. There's something really interesting that I realized 'cause people who said, you know, why does um, this breathwork detox bring me so much clarity and creativity and there's some scientific terms, but.
[00:21:13] What happens is when you start to release and let go of certain things, breath work doesn't induce clarity and creativity. What it does is it lets go and, and releases all the blocks, the energetic blocks, the emotional blocks that were getting in the way of your clarity and creativity. 'cause the answers are always right in front of us.
[00:21:33] Mm-hmm. They're always there. We never have to search or seek. The answers are always there. People will say, the answers are always within us. Right? Yeah. You'll hear all these, they are, it's just sometimes we can't see them 'cause things are blocking them. And usually it's our own perceptions. It's past heartbreaks, past failures, uh, any types of doubt or, or fear.
[00:21:52] So when we start to breathe through these blocks, all of a sudden the answers, the clarity, and the possibilities come to us. In fact, stress can actually make you stupid. And if you think about it, so when we're stressed. The most, let's just say, you know, they'll give the example that you heard, you might have heard in the past of a saber tooth tiger just right, goes in your podcast room.
[00:22:14] You're gonna get so stressed that all your cortisol, all your adrenaline, you know, epinephrine, all this stuff's gonna be spiking. And what your body and your brain does is all your possibilities, which is the key word. What do they do? They all shrink one by one. One one, immediately down to just. Two possibilities.
[00:22:32] Right? Fight or flight.
[00:22:34] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And sometimes
[00:22:36] Kurtis Lee Thomas: freeze. Mm-hmm. So all your possibilities were down to three possibilities because you were so stressed. Yeah. Now, now there's not a saber-tooth tiger in the room. Right. But the more stressed you are, whether you realize it or not, the less possibilities you're gonna see of how to get outta your situation.
[00:23:01] Casey O'Roarty: Oh, I love that. And that makes perfect sense. As I think about the clients that I have, parents that I recently, in the last even couple days have worked with who are moving through like high stress situations with their kiddos and it's either like, I've gotta shut it down or I've just gotta tune it out, right?
[00:23:19] Mm-hmm. Like, and there's so much. That exists beyond that, and what I'm hearing you say is by being more intentional around, well, I mean, and I wonder too, there's a piece I'm guessing around awareness. Like, oh, I'm in this mindset right now and I get to help myself. Using this tool that I learned on this really cool podcast, right?
[00:23:44] And so there's that, that self-awareness and that willingness to practice and that willingness too, to let go of. 'cause what I let go of in that, what you just guided me through was, I'm not smart enough to figure this out. I can't figure this out. And we're gonna owe thousands and thousands of dollars because I can't figure this out.
[00:24:04] Like those were really the things that, with my exhale that I really released. And afterwards, you know, even, even right now, it's like, wait a second. First of all, I have people who are resources for me to help me learn and understand what we're moving through. And I'm actually pretty damn smart and I can, you know, my husband and I are a great team.
[00:24:27] Like it just. Fills the space with so much more room for other stories and beliefs beyond just the doom and gloom ones. And I, I think for parents, you know, because as you know, as a parent of a teenager, the teen are, you know, even with, even with breath work, even as a parent coach, even knowing what I knew and know, like we went through some pretty gnarly stuff with our kiddos.
[00:24:56] There's no like. If I figure out the parenting thing, then we won't have drama and struggles and challenges. No, that's the terrain. But I'm, what I'm hearing from you is like, oh, this is a tool that's actually gonna help me be who I wanna be in the crazy terrain of parenting teenagers. And I think that is ultimately what we need and what our kids need.
[00:25:23] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yes, I will agree. And how I like to look at that personally. I. Is yes to be who we came here to be. But I feel, for me, breathing this technique for me has allowed me to let go of who I'm not
[00:25:37] Casey O'Roarty: and I think Say more.
[00:25:39] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah. And I think that's probably exactly what you just did, right? Because you sometimes we believe the lies we tell ourselves, and you know, that can be detrimental because we can be our best friends, but most of the time we're our worst enemies.
[00:25:56] And we have this little, you know, egoic mind, this little self saboteur, and you can call it a little devil on one shoulder and an angel, another shoulder. But there's some part of our brain, right, that doesn't want us to be smart, sexy, rich, and beautiful, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I don't know what that is.
[00:26:15] You know, science is trying to figure it out. Spirituality is trying to figure it out. Religion's trying to figure it out. But whatever it is, it's, it's there. What I do know, or whatever that thing is, is that when you do this specific breathing technique right around the eight to 12 minute mark, something happens in the brain called transient hypofrontality, which is a fancy word for flow state.
[00:26:37] And when that starts to happen, something magical happens because the prefrontal cortex of the brain begins to quiet down. And when that begins to quiet down, it's a big deal because that part of the brain is usually what? What's always on? It's called our executive decision maker. It's what judges and separates.
[00:26:57] It says, you're you. I'm me. This is good, this is bad. And when that quiets down, while we're conscious, right, that egoic mind, that self saboteur the thing that judges and says this and that, when that quiets down, all of a sudden now we see the answers. Mm-hmm. We see the possibilities. And for me, my. Biggest session was that first healing session.
[00:27:17] Yeah. And then the reason why I stuck with the practice is because the level of clarity that I get in my life and clarity is one of the things that I, I brought into my life as, you know, one of the main things I value because I. If you look at the opposite of clarity is confusion and confusion in is temporary insanity in my opinion.
[00:27:38] And no one likes to be confused whether should I stay in this relationship? Should I get outta this race relationship? Should I stay in this job? Should I get outta this job? What's my mission? What's my purpose? Why am I really here? That confusion can torment. People and create so much resistance inside that it doesn't matter how good it looks outside, how many nice cars are in the driveway, how big your house is, none of it matters if there's internal conflict.
[00:28:00] Mm-hmm. And I think that's why big Hollywood people have issues. It's like, it's never the money, it's the internal conflict that is the root cause of all of our suffering. I think G, no, Gandhi. Yeah, Gandhi said it. He said Happiness is when you know our thoughts, words and actions are all in alignment. Yeah.
[00:28:16] You know, and when they're not, it's gone
[00:28:19] Casey O'Roarty: well. And I love that word alignment. Like to me, I feel like, and this is very active right now in my personal self-care practice and soul care practice, is finding that alignment between what I believe is essence and inner being. With this human experience of the mind and the thought and the ego, right?
[00:28:44] And when those two, when I can align that human part of me in with this essence, the spirit that lives inside of me, which I think is the world according to me, is, you know, this is the piece of me that is also connected to the universe, to God, to higher power. And so I love the idea of alignment. And then in practical terms, when I work with parents, it is coming back to that question of who do you want to be and what do you want to create?
[00:29:15] And even that question, you know, I invite them to take some time and really sit with that, you know? And you said flow state. I'm thinking a lot these days about. The current, you know, being in the current, like trying my best not to be paddling upstream and working really hard toward, and because a lot of that creates resistance.
[00:29:38] Whether it's like, no, they will not act like this, or no, they will not be behave this way. Or you know, I have clients whose kids are using substances. I have clients whose kids are really struggling in school. Or just the basic, like, are they ever gonna clean their room and. I really like to invite them to be with those questions of what matters most and and what do you wanna create.
[00:30:02] And if we start there, like you said at the top with ourselves and our thoughts and beliefs and what we're bringing to relationship, you know, there's an influence there. There's a ripple effect there that might not result in like, oh my God, my kid. Now cleans his room every day. Right. But instead it's, I'm changing the way that I'm experiencing my kiddo not really caring about how clean his room is.
[00:30:29] Right. And it's amazing. It changes my life when I can shift internally, it doesn't matter what's happening in the external because I get to create the experience that I'm having. And so I love, I wanna hear more about like. You know, even I wanna hear more about the practice of the breath work, because I feel like we're talking about this, a lot of overlap and breath work as a tool for getting to that place of I get to be in charge of my experience regardless of what's happening externally.
[00:31:04] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah.
[00:31:05] Casey O'Roarty: So tell me more about the like, so we just did one practice with the deep inhale, and it was funny when you were guiding me in that and you were like, don't hold onto the breath. I wanted to be like, well, uh, but I'm literally holding my breath until I exhale. So, but I, as I did it, I realized my experience of it was, oh.
[00:31:27] Instead the invitation is recognize what I am holding onto, which were these beliefs and these blocks that I then got to release. Yeah. Is that kind of what you were, is
[00:31:39] Kurtis Lee Thomas: that Yeah, that's exactly because you know, in my, uh, teacher trainings, um, when I'm training my breathwork, students will have this exercise where people will, will breathe and I can tell you exactly what's going on in that person's life.
[00:31:52] Okay. Because everything is connected to everything else, and the breath is connected to certain emotions and how people breathe. You know, how you do anything is how you do everything. And when people are holding on to their breath, that means they're holding onto something else.
[00:32:08] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:09] Kurtis Lee Thomas: There's something else in their life that they haven't let go of.
[00:32:13] Right. And then some people will do, like, you know, like they'll do the great, you know, inhales and then when, when they're supposed to just let it go, they'll hold onto the breath, right? And they'll constantly, it's a, it's a holding on. And then, you know, the opposite is, you know, when they'll, um, what would be the opposite?
[00:32:30] When they, when they breathe in like this, right? When their mouth's supposed to be open, but then they, they release fine, they're afraid, you know, they, they aren't afraid to let go. Right. They, they've let go of the past. However, their breath shows me they're afraid to take the next step in life.
[00:32:48] Casey O'Roarty: Mm.
[00:32:49] Kurtis Lee Thomas: They're afraid of their own success or their own failure, and they might not know where to start, or they might know what to do, but they don't do what they know.
[00:33:01] Right. So this is fascinating. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's always, um, you know, something telltale signs of what the breath is doing, of what's going on in someone's life. If they're breathing, you know, really shallow, they're living a shallow life. Mm-hmm. And if they're breathing deep diaphragmatic breaths and they're breathing into the belly and they're, you know, they're calm, it's like they're leading a, a very deep and meaningful life.
[00:33:25] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:26] Kurtis Lee Thomas: So it's just interesting how everything's connected to everything else.
[00:33:30] Casey O'Roarty: Well, yeah. And I'm imagining there's a lot in between those two. Oh yeah. Places as well. So what about super practically so with a, a parent who's in a moment with their teenager and there's the eye rolling and the perceived defiance and the tension and the conflict.
[00:33:50] What's a simple breath practice? That parents that are listening can employ right away in their kitchen later today when they're confronted by this teenager.
[00:34:01] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah, so let's just say that motion, would that be anger or frustration?
[00:34:07] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, frustration always. There's always so much under frustration, right?
[00:34:12] I think. There's like a disbel. I mean, when I think about myself in the kitchen, in these moments, there's just kind of this disbelief like,
[00:34:21] Kurtis Lee Thomas: how
[00:34:22] Casey O'Roarty: dare you? How dare you?
[00:34:24] Kurtis Lee Thomas: You've got, you grab your ears, you rub them, and you say, woo.
[00:34:29] Casey O'Roarty: Oh, is that it?
[00:34:31] Kurtis Lee Thomas: But that was from movie. Um, I think one of the simplest techniques that can help somebody get into their parasympathetic, right.
[00:34:38] That just relax. Yeah. Stay in their nervous system is box breathing. Mm-hmm. And box breathing in 4, 7, 8 method. Those two methods are both used by the Navy Seals. So if the Navy Seal is going to get ready to kick open a door, you know, which could be a, you know, who knows what's gonna go on, um, you know, they'll do a technique like this before they go on a mission or when they.
[00:35:00] You know they need sleep and their adrenaline's going so much, and they need to get into that parasympathetic because they need this two or three hour sleep before they go on a mission. They'll do one of those two techniques, and the box breathing is very simple. So on every action or inaction, there's four seconds.
[00:35:18] And what I mean by that is you're gonna breathe in for four seconds and then you're gonna hold for four seconds, and then you're gonna breathe out for four seconds. And then you're gonna hold for four seconds. So every in and out is four seconds. And at the top of the breath and the bottom of the breath, you're holding each time for four seconds.
[00:35:36] Mm-hmm. And that's why they call it box breathing.
[00:35:38] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:39] Kurtis Lee Thomas: You can just do three rounds of those. And you'll instantly feel it. So I'll do those, um, every morning when I do a cold plunge. So I'll do a cold plunge and in the cold plunge, like your sympathetic nervous system, you, you know, you like, you feel like you breathe.
[00:35:53] And I'll go right into box breathing and it just gets me just nice and calm, you know, just back into that, that state. And I can stay focused while I'm in, you know, 40 degree. You know, water at six. Yeah. So, um, that's a big one. And I think, uh, 4, 7, 8 is you breathe in for four seconds, you hold for seven seconds and you breathe out for eight seconds.
[00:36:17] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. So
[00:36:17] Kurtis Lee Thomas: typically the rule of thumb is when you're looking to get into a calm, relaxed state, you're gonna wanna exhale longer than you inhale.
[00:36:25] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. And is that because, 'cause this is what I say, I don't know if it's true. Is that because, is that an indicator to our nervous system? Like we're okay.
[00:36:34] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yes.
[00:36:36] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yep. Oh good.
[00:36:37] Kurtis Lee Thomas: So even if your heart is be in a million miles an hour, whatever's going on in your life, and you're like stressed, you're scared, whatever it is, and you start doing that technique, no matter what's going on in your head, your body's like, oh, oh, the breathing, oh, I'm actually safe.
[00:36:51] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. So
[00:36:51] Kurtis Lee Thomas: it's the way to like bypass, or some people will say, biohack your system to let it know it's safe, because the mind will never do that.
[00:36:59] Right. Yes. You just wish you know. Oh my
[00:37:02] Casey O'Roarty: gosh, yes. Especially with this, you know, this season, this, this, this transitional time between childhood and adulthood being witness. Ugh, man. As the parent, it's so challenging and it's hard to get out of this spin that's happening in the mind. And I love using the body as the side door, right?
[00:37:25] Yeah. Like the body really gets to be the side door and. And I'm thinking about one client in particular who I just adore and she definitely has a story. I'm sure she'll be listening. She'll know I'm talking about her. She definitely has a story that she is anxious and she's got kiddos that are just giving her endless opportunities to be in the anxiety or to do something different.
[00:37:51] Yeah, and I'm guessing, I'm feeling like the box breathing should she? Be willing to really practice, and I'm guessing Curtis, that this is like great for in the moment, but also outside of the moment, letting our bodies get familiar with it as a practice and familiar with coming back to that place of, of calm is also really important.
[00:38:17] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah, I mean, here's the best thing about creating a breathwork practice for yourself. Is that It's so easy. Yeah. It's kinda like, it's like writing a book, right? Writing a book isn't hard. Wow. Sitting down to write a book is hard.
[00:38:32] Casey O'Roarty: Okay. I don't know. I might push back on that one.
[00:38:36] Kurtis Lee Thomas: No, I, but here's the thing, you know, like writing
[00:38:38] Casey O'Roarty: words on a piece of paper is not hard.
[00:38:40] Kurtis Lee Thomas: No, but it's, it's actually the fact that, oh my God, I gotta write a book. And anyone who's, you know, trying to write a book looks at, ah, yes. Higher staircase, and they're like, oh my God. They get overwhelmed. They get more stressed because they know they, they're only on this page, da da da da. And they never sit down to actually write.
[00:38:55] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. '
[00:38:55] Kurtis Lee Thomas: cause they're so overwhelmed that they have to write.
[00:38:58] Casey O'Roarty: Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And even
[00:38:59] Kurtis Lee Thomas: if you look at a, a, a health practice or going to the gym, right? Yeah. I work six days a week and I'm in the, and I don't stay there for two hours. Like, my thing is I do one muscle group a day, six days a week, and I'm out.
[00:39:13] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:14] Kurtis Lee Thomas: It could take me 30 minutes, it could take me 40 minutes, you know, and I'm in and out.
[00:39:18] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:21] Kurtis Lee Thomas: This is, say it's 30 minutes, you know, minimum I'll put in for, for an exercise. Well, with a breathwork practice, you don't have to drive 15 minutes there and back to the gym. Yeah. And do 30, 40 minutes there.
[00:39:34] Right, right. In your house. And we're not talking 30, 40 minutes. We're talking three minutes. Two minutes. If you can just set aside two, three minutes and say, at this time of the day, every single day. You know, for two, three minutes, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna do this breathing technique, whether it's 4, 7, 8, whether it's box breathing, whatever it is, and commit to that.
[00:39:58] That's not a big commitment. Yeah, it's, it's easier than even going to the gym or all these other things or writing a book. And when you start to do that, you know, right around day, you know, I think 10, you're gonna start to realize the shift. Mm-hmm. And then you start to get into in three weeks, and when you start getting into three weeks, you're gonna be like, oh my God, my nervous system is completely regulated from where it was to where it is now.
[00:40:24] And I think the hardest part. Which is the point I was trying to make is just actually doing it.
[00:40:29] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, for sure.
[00:40:30] Kurtis Lee Thomas: That's it is actually doing it, you know, and those are like, for me, those are more maintenance techniques. What I teach and certify people in is the big deep sessions, right? If people are like looking to like radically transform their nervous system in a very short amount of time, this is why they say breath work is like 20 years of therapy in one session without saying a word.
[00:40:51] And I've witnessed miracles and breakthroughs in. You know, all types of stuff and, and some of this stuff sounds unbelievable happen in these deep sessions. So those are very deep sessions. These are maintenance. Yeah. These are things that everybody should be doing every single day because it only takes a couple minutes and then when you really like, okay, wow, this works so good.
[00:41:11] What happens when something works so good? We want more, you know? Yeah. So then now you do it three times a day. Yeah. And that's only what, six to nine minutes? Yeah. And then, you know, you really are set in the habits for your nervous system. 'cause now it knows and you start to train it because it's a, it's just a wild animal.
[00:41:27] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and again, like it takes something that's useful and makes it more familiar and more accessible because. You know, we did it this morning or we've been doing it for the last three weeks. And so in those high stress moments, I'm guessing it also, 'cause I, I know I have my own practices and I notice that when I am really consistent with my, my morning ritual throughout the day, I am more aware of when I'm out of alignment, of when I'm starting to become a dysregulated and I'm more able to create a little bit bigger pause to again, ask myself.
[00:42:04] Okay, what do I wanna create right now? And is the road I'm about to walk down gonna create that? Or is it gonna move me away from that? And so I just, I love, I love the both and of, I'm really curious about these deep sessions, but I'm also, you know, thinking about the listener who's, you know, got kids in all different direct, going in all different directions and all these things to take care of and.
[00:42:29] I think hopefully listeners you're hearing this is something that fits into your life and creates more ease. Like, don't we all want more ease? I mean that's been one of my intentions all year long. Acceptance, ease, and levity. And I think a practice like breath work really helps me to bring that, those three things to life.
[00:43:02] Uh, so I have a question. So you were talking about the Navy Seals, and I'm thinking about how, I'm thinking about my husband, who has plenty going on in his mind. When it comes time to sleep. I'm thinking about clients whose kids are in their own stuff and have the spin out. My own spin out years ago when my daughter was.
[00:43:24] Struggling and how hard it was to let, to quiet the mind. So breath work. You don't have to be a Navy SEAL to use the box breathing to support with rest and sleep. Right. It's something that we can all use regardless of what we're amped up about. Yeah.
[00:43:44] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah. It's the, the whole, the whole point. Is that if you want to get into a more relaxed and regulated state, right?
[00:43:52] Whether that's calmer, whether that's, you know, you're gonna go to sleep. 'cause sometimes you're just like, I need to go to bed, but I. I'm not tired. Right? Oh my gosh. That's the story of my husband's life. Well, you can make yourself tired, you know, using certain techniques, and that's what they do. The nail Navy seals, 'cause it's important for them to get that sleep.
[00:44:09] But you don't need to be a Navy seal. You know, if you're just tired, you need to turn off Netflix and go to bed and say, okay, I know I'm not tired, but I'm gonna go in bed and I'm gonna do these breathing techniques. Mm-hmm. And it's gonna knock you out.
[00:44:19] Casey O'Roarty: Talk about. Breath as kind of this, and you, you just did, right?
[00:44:25] It's kind of a, you can almost use it like a remote control for the nervous system. How does it support in co-regulation, right? Because talk about co-regulation. 'cause I think this is so again, another side door to everyone being in a better state of mind, more receptive state of mind, being able to. See each other's perspectives and stay solution focused.
[00:44:51] We all need to be regulated. So how can breath, how does it relate to co-regulation and impact that energy that we bring to our sweet, sweet teenagers?
[00:45:06] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Well, you know, my belief around, um, not just parenting, but even teaching. I think most people would be surprised that how much we can teach and pass on to our children just through the process of osmosis.
[00:45:27] You know, this is, they did lots of studies on this and even, you know, gurus in India, you know, if you're around these people, just around these people, then their followers begin to become enlightened just by being in that energy, not necessarily what they're saying. So, and you know, energy, I. You know, even scientists saying humans are, you know, we're made up of more energy than we are.
[00:45:48] Mada energy is a, is a real thing. And when we are regulated and calm, it makes other people regulated and calm around us. Because if you can, if you're in, really in tune to energy, and if you're in a room with eight. And I don't, I'm saying zero words. No one's speaking a word. No one's saying anything, teaching anything.
[00:46:08] It's just wordless. Okay. And you got eight people in there who are stressed out, anxious. I. You're gonna be the ninth.
[00:46:16] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:17] Kurtis Lee Thomas: And if you got eight people who are just zen out, just totally in peace, you know, happy, you know joy in their body, right. You're gonna be the ninth happy person in there. Mm-hmm. And I think that's a big lesson to learn is, you know, how we carry ourselves.
[00:46:34] People pick up on energy and you know, this isn't woo woo. You know, you can meet somebody and just not like them. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I don't know why it is, I just don't like this person. Right. Yeah. It's what's going on inside of them. Yeah. You know, and the thing I realized about that is, you know, people who need love the most often ask for in the most unloving ways.
[00:46:57] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And the people who are angry the most actually need love the most, so. You know what we bring into a relationship, you know what we bring into our lives, it all starts with us. I can't like in the irony behind this is the irony. So I've yet to get my daughter to do breath work.
[00:47:19] Casey O'Roarty: Uhhuh. Well, hi.
[00:47:21] And I'm familiar with this kind of. Situation going.
[00:47:24] Kurtis Lee Thomas: So this is where the wisdom comes, comes from. Just so you know. And by the way, you know, she's, uh, she just turned 18 and graduated high school.
[00:47:31] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Good for her. So I just
[00:47:32] Kurtis Lee Thomas: got noticed. She's, she's moving out of the house in two months, so Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:47:37] So I got two months of, uh, more of parenting. So I'm trying to get a new brother her, but it's gonna be a real, a real, oh babe.
[00:47:43] Casey O'Roarty: It's gonna, it's so much more than two months. You can keep telling yourself. I mean, like, I know, I know.
[00:47:51] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yeah. So that was, um, you know, that was just a, a, a lesson. I think when it comes to co-regulation, I think we have more power than what we believe to, you know, just through that power of osmosis.
[00:48:04] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, I love that. And again, I just had another conversation about this that's speaks to the modeling, right? And it's my, um, you know, my kids are a little older than your daughter. My, my daughter is 22 and. Oh, it's really lovely to see her adopt some practices and mindsets and of, you know, not of course, but she feels like she came to them all by herself and I quietly in the corner thinking I, I, I modeled that.
[00:48:38] Like, I'm not gonna take credit, but, you know. Yeah. I mean the, our model is so powerful and. You know, to me, a, a conversation like this, Curtis, is one of the most important conversations we can be having with for parents, I think, because it really allows us, you know, we talk a lot about intentional parenting or conscious parenting, and this is the doorway.
[00:49:04] I mean, this is where the practice really shows up, is in the willingness to come back to. Like I said, that that flow state, or you said the flow state. I said that essence, that inner being, that inner knowing, which I think is that place of just deep love and trust. Right. I think if nothing else, the teen years is an invitation to trust that everybody's gonna be okay on the other side.
[00:49:31] Right? Yeah. And breath. I think can really be a, a catalyst and a tool for that. So I really appreciate the work that you do. And tell me more about the work that you do. So you do teacher trainings, like, where can I sign up? I'm really interested. And do you do group work? Do you work one-on-one with clients?
[00:49:50] Talk about the work that you do.
[00:49:52] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Yes. So I don't work one-on-one anymore with clients. Okay. Uh, all the work that I do is group work, and that's either in corporations or that is in teacher training. However, I do do, um, a vir, I lead a virtual breathwork session of the breathwork detox, the signature modality every two weeks.
[00:50:12] So every two weeks I'll do it online and people can log in from whenever and they can experience it virtually in the comfort of their own home. Awesome. And I guide them through and walk them through like everything they're gonna experience. And we play the music and it's pretty, it's pretty wild, like what happens during these sessions and you know, people have these, uh, crazy stories of, you know, breakthroughs.
[00:50:31] So I do that every two weeks. Um, but if people wanted to experience one of those, and I usually don't. Do this, I've done in the past, probably haven't done it in, in four months. Um, but I know you have a lot of probably single mothers out there that aren't raising kids. So, um, I do have a code I can give you guys.
[00:50:48] It's called Podcast 50. Okay. It'll give you 50% off a virtual ticket.
[00:50:52] Casey O'Roarty: Okay. Awesome.
[00:50:53] Kurtis Lee Thomas: You just have to go to breathwork detox.com. So type in breathwork detox.com and then boom, it's gonna come to our, pretty much our program suite. So you're gonna see virtual events, you're gonna see memberships, you're gonna see teacher training, you're gonna see corporate, all that stuff.
[00:51:05] So just click on whatever one you're interested in. And when you go to the virtual events, if you put that code Podcast 50 and you'll get 50% off a ticket and you can come. Awesome. Taste the Kool-Aid.
[00:51:14] Casey O'Roarty: Yes. I love the Kool-Aid. I'm so in on the Kool-Aid. Um, I love that. I love that. Thank you so much. I think this is such an important topic and it's such a simple, yet profound tool for shifting the dynamic in your family environment, so I really appreciate that you came on and talked about this.
[00:51:36] I always end my podcast with the same question, which Curtis is, what does joyful courage mean to you?
[00:51:44] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Joyful Courage.
[00:51:46] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. That's the name of my show. In case you didn't know, I'm sure that you met,
[00:51:49] Kurtis Lee Thomas: so I'm gonna say that. Well, I'm actually gonna refer to a. There's a cool study that happened in Harvard.
[00:51:56] This is by Harvard, and what they prove that when people in stressful situations, like when you say, you know, courage, right? Courage has to do with something in front of you that you have to be quote unquote brave or overcome, right? Mm-hmm. But what this study showed is that it was actually less effective to do.
[00:52:14] A breathing technique to try to calm yourself down in a moment where you're about to go on stage or go on a date or wherever you felt nervous and it was more effective to trick the brain and to believe in that you're excited. Ah, so joyful courage to me is, you know, going into challenges in life and realizing that you're really just excited for this opportunity that's in front of you.
[00:52:42] Casey O'Roarty: I love it. Yes, the gifts. There's always so many gifts. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much. Anywhere else that people can go and follow you, are you on social media? So you gave the Breathwork detox website. What else? Anything else? I.
[00:52:58] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Um, probably just my Instagram, which is Man from the Stars. So, and gonna, Instagram is just one word, man from the stars.
[00:53:05] And, you know, I, I post some stuff there and then also if people wanted to direct message me, I'm pretty good about getting back to people in a decent amount of time. So I'm happy to answer people's questions or whatever if they just wanna connect with me. But that would be the other way.
[00:53:18] Casey O'Roarty: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with me.
[00:53:20] This was great.
[00:53:21] Kurtis Lee Thomas: Awesome. Thank you for having me.
[00:53:28] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my  Sproutable partners, Julietta and Alanna. Thank you, Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at PodShaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good as I mentioned. Sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:53:55] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected besproutable.com. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.