Eps 603: Building structure and connection with older teens

Joyful courage is staying in the mindset that everything is figureoutable (thank you for that term, Marie Forleo) – when we can be with what is challenging and continue to look for solutions and connection… That is joyful courage to me today.

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescents this season of parenting. Is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years. And continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:24] Hey there, friends, it's Casey. Welcome back to the show. I'm so glad that you're here today and tuning in. I get to deep dive into a really powerful listener question and I know. That so many of you are gonna resonate with it. I am really grateful for this person for reaching out, reaching out with their questions.
[00:01:50] So here's what they wrote in. It starts off with, hi. I'm not sure if this is a question we can talk about on the podcast or elsewhere, but here it goes. I have a 17-year-old daughter entering her senior year of high school. I've struggled with her all her life to hold boundaries. She has an intense personality along with a DHD and some mental health challenges, which adds some extra spice to the mix as she's about to launch off into adulthood soon.
[00:02:20] I'm realizing all the ways I could have set firmer limits. And stuck to them and worry she's not gonna be prepared for the real world. Is it possible to start enforcing limits? Now that I've spent the last several years being wishy-washy on them, I know it will cause extreme reactions, which might include screaming.
[00:02:41] Possible damage to room, hurtful words, threats, et cetera, which is why I have caved so much in the past. Essentially, I've been afraid of her big feelings. I feel like I have this one last year where we have any authority and I wanna use it wisely. Is it too late? What limits are even reasonable for a senior?
[00:03:03] This leads me to a second question. Because of the friction between us for so long, a part of me feels like I've just thrown in the towel and given up. I have a few non-negotiable rules, but for the most part, the minute she argues or debates, I get flustered, and in an effort to try to be flexible, I just end up allowing her to have what she wants.
[00:03:22] I don't feel good about this at all, and it has led to some major resentment on my end. I know relationship is key, but I'm having a hard time. Wanting to put in the effort when I feel like our relationship is only ever good if she gets her way. Is this a fake it till you make it kind of thing? I recently finished your episode with Paul Ri, and he kind of alluded to this.
[00:03:46] You just gotta keep showing up. It's really hard. So any words of encouragement for me and other parents feeling this way would be wonderful. I know this is a lot. Thank you so much. Your podcast episodes are amazing and leave me with hope every time. Ah, first of all, thank you listener for your. Courage and the time you took to write this all out and send it to me.
[00:04:12] So many parents feel the exact same way. They just don't say it out loud, right? So if you are listening and nodding your head, you know, here's your opportunity to recognize that you're not alone. This is tough stuff and it's really interesting, right? Senior year, I remember talking a lot about this in Ian's senior year, a few years ago.
[00:04:37] That whole idea of parenting a year ahead, they're gonna be on their own in she's, you know, hopefully gonna launch and be in her own space, making her own life in a year. So what does it look like to practice what she needs now? So that she's ready and. Remember too that we do not launch fully baked humans.
[00:05:04] They leave us with hopefully enough tools to stay afloat and they then continue to bake out in the world as they have life experience and just intersect with all that unfolds. So let's keep that in mind as we. Move through my response to this sweet parent. So yeah, boundaries, power struggles, big feelings.
[00:05:30] Your daughter has a DHD. Some mental health challenges and an intense personality. Anyone else out there like, oh, me too. Yeah, those things can absolutely come into play and make the parenting landscape even more complex. And what I hear as I read your question and share your question is that you've really avoided.
[00:05:57] Setting or holding boundaries because of her reaction, because of her intensity or because you know what you believe her reaction is going to be, can feel really overwhelming. So first of all, it makes sense that you would wanna shy away from that because that anticipation, I think so many parents sit in that space of I'm scared of how they're gonna respond, so I'm not gonna hold the boundary and you are not.
[00:06:26] Serving your kiddos. When you do that, you're not, and you're holding them really small, right? So here's a reframe. Here's a reframe. Boundaries are not about controlling our kids. Boundaries are about guiding them and speaking to what our needs are and what our expectations are. While staying in integrity.
[00:06:54] So let's talk about how you might introduce some boundaries at this stage of the game. So I would not encourage you to say like, okay, you know, sorry, but new rules starting now. We gotta get this going. I flailed, and now I need to lay down some law. Right? That's not gonna invite her into collaboration. It is going to instigate a big blow up.
[00:07:24] But one thing you can say to start is like, Hey, wow. A senior year. Senior year, this is a really big deal. And I want to figure out together how we can make this work year really work for both of us. I am looking to feel, you know, respected in the household and I know you need more freedom and I'd love to sit down and make some agreements and just talk through all of this so that it feels good to both of us.
[00:07:59] When would be a good time for that? So instead of, can we do this, the firmness is we're going to do this. The kindness is, when does it work for you? You could even say, Hey, I've got Monday afternoon or Thursday morning available. Which of those two times is useful to you? When are you around? Right? That opening communicates respect and will signal to your daughter like, Hey, I'm looking to partner with you and.
[00:08:29] If and when, you know, she's like not gonna do that. Or Scoffs you can follow up with, Hey. Yeah. Okay. I am hearing that you don't really wanna talk about this right now. I wanna give you some space, but we're gonna circle back on this. It's important for me, and I know that when things are clear, it's useful to you too, and that's really what we're going for here, is just to create some clarity.
[00:08:59] Around just what's expected, what you expect from me, and what I expect from you. Right? This is where kindness and firmness shows up. And again, there may be a lot of pushback, so you could also, like I've already mentioned, you know, talk to her about you're gonna be, you know, heading out on your own here soon.
[00:09:19] And really this year is about practicing being good roommates, practicing following through with what we say we're gonna do, practicing those life skills that you're gonna need. When you make your way out in the world, that's what this is about. This is not about me all of a sudden deciding that I'm gonna create a whole bunch of rules to try to control you or try to tell you when and how you can spend your time.
[00:09:47] So I think keep in mind that if this is new and different for your kiddo, you being like, Hey, I wanna talk about this stuff, they are gonna push back because they don't really know where you're coming from, and so they're gonna fill in the gaps. So it becomes really useful for you to just be clear upfront, right?
[00:10:07] Be clear upfront about what it is that you wanna create,
[00:10:19] and speaking of what it is that you wanna create. One of the questions that the parent asked was, what limits are reasonable for a senior? So. Again, when I think about senior year, I think about the year after actually, and I think about what is it that they're gonna need to be able to do on their own next year, and how can I create a runway during this senior year that's gonna support them in practicing so that when they get outta the house, when they leave, when they launch, it's not the first time.
[00:10:55] That they're, you know, truly taking care of themselves. So one of the things that I think is really reasonable for seniors is expecting them to contribute to the household. And I don't mean like pay rent, but I do mean like we're all living together. They're probably gonna launch from home into a situation where they're sharing space with somebody else.
[00:11:18] So this is reasonable. For them to practice being good roommates before they actually have to become roommates. One of the things you can say, you know, part of living together is everyone contributing and doing their share. So what's a responsibility or a contribution that you'd be okay with owning this year?
[00:11:41] Let's pick one that feels fair to both of us, or you can, you know, do it on a rotating basis. Or it might be like, I've been kind of lax with this. But our community space, taking care of your stuff, you know, taking care of your bathroom or perhaps going to the grocery store with a list or you know, supporting meal prep.
[00:12:02] All of these things are logical things for your senior to be participating in, and it really does them a disservice when they get a pass. They don't have to help out, and then they end up in an apartment with somebody. They're the slob, they're the problem, and nobody wants to live with them. Right? So household contributions are absolutely reasonable for a senior.
[00:12:29] The other thing is respectful communication. Like, yes, you can expect this, you get to model this. This is a place where you get to create your own personal boundaries around how you're willing to be treated. So it could sound like, I know sometimes we both get heated, but name calling or breaking things or screaming at me isn't Okay.
[00:12:51] And when that happens, I'm gonna step away so that we can talk respectfully and you might wanna. Also contribute. Like I know sometimes I'm the problem. Sometimes I'm the one that gets frustrated or angry and I am not checking my tone or I'm shutting down. I'm gonna take care of myself when I notice that I no longer can be in respectful communication with you, and I'm gonna step away to.
[00:13:19] Regulate my nervous system so that we can move forward in conversation. And I'm also going to do the same thing when I feel like the communication coming from you doesn't feel respectful to me, I am gonna call a break. Right? And the cool thing about this is. You know whether or not your kiddo is gonna get better at respectful communication is on them, but how you are willing or unwilling to receive or stay in conversation with them when.
[00:13:50] Communication has gone off the rails that's on you, right? So respectful communication is absolutely something that we can expect from our seniors, and we can also expect that the practice is really in noticing when it isn't respectful and having that plan around pausing and everybody taking care of their nervous systems so that we can come back.
[00:14:15] And we can talk to each other in a way that's useful, where we can listen and hear each other, listen to understand, not listen to argue, right? And you gotta model that.
[00:14:28] I think another limit with our teens is something that is useful to be talking about and important to be talking about even when they're seniors, is curfews and safety. And I have a different take on curfews. I don't think it's useful to say, okay, your weekend curfew is 1230 and your weekday curfew is 10.
[00:14:52] I want my kids to have loads of independence and I want my kids to do their own critical thinking and I wanna know that they're safe. Right? So it could sound like, I want you to feel independent. I want to know that you're safe, and as we move through this year, depending on what it is that you're going out to do, I think that we can really negotiate a curfew that feels good based on your plans.
[00:15:21] Right. And then it's really important to me that we then communicate about it, right? We get to be in communication around when you're gonna be home, you know what you're doing, who you're with, and I don't wanna micromanage your social life. So really, when I strip it bare, the most important thing to me is knowing, you know, when you're gonna be home, and just kind of staying connected as you're out in the world, but not too much.
[00:15:49] Right. Not too much. And by the way, listeners, when it comes down to it and they're like, okay, I'm gonna go to this concert and it's in this other city and it's on a Saturday and I think my curfew should be 4:00 AM you get to say, oh my gosh, that sounds like so much. Fun. I know you love that artist. What a great time.
[00:16:11] 4:00 AM is too late, so let's work on a plan that gets you home at a reasonable hour so that I know that you're safe. Right? Connecting before redirecting. The other place that I think is absolutely beneficial to have some limits is around technology now limits for a senior. Gonna look, they're gonna look a lot different than limits for like a 13-year-old, right.
[00:16:41] I think technology, I feel like when Ian was a senior, you know, I talked a lot about parenting a year ahead and about halfway through the year he was like, you know, you keep talking about this. And my phone still shuts down at a certain time every night, and I think you should let me practice not having that automatic shutdown.
[00:17:04] And I said, okay. Valid. You're right. You need to practice. And so we got rid of all the limits on Ian's phone and we checked in regularly with each other around, how's it going? What's easy? What's hard? What are you noticing about your sleep? When is it the most challenging to put your phone away? So again, what I really want most, more than anything is for my kids.
[00:17:35] To have critical thinking around their phone use. That is what is the most important thing to me. So I worked really hard to just normalize that. We talk about technology, we talk about our relationship with technology. I model my own mistakes or missteps with technology and how I'm supporting myself.
[00:17:58] And spending less time with my phone. And I think that that is absolutely appropriate to start having those conversations with your kiddo. So yeah, limits for seniors. Normalizing conversations around technology. You know, setting up a system for curfews and safety. Setting boundaries around respectful communication, what it looks like and what you're going to do and follow through with when it stops being respectful and a conversation around household contributions.
[00:18:32] So those are the things that I definitely think you get to touch on and talk about. Right? And you get to recognize that you have needs. And you get to really invite her, invite your kiddos into the conversation around co-creating limits that feel good for you both, which means probably you're both gonna have to stretch a little bit right
[00:19:08] now. Another thing that this listener brought up was that explosive pushback, her worry around how her daughter's gonna respond. Right. She shared that maybe there'd be some screaming or throwing things or saying really hurtful things when the daughter's upset. This is really hard, and I know you are not alone.
[00:19:28] The person that wrote this in, there are so many people that I talk to on the regular who have kiddos that are explosive, and here's the truth, her reaction doesn't mean you've done something wrong. Or that you are ruining your relationship with her. It means that she is lagging in her skills for managing big emotions like anger or disappointment.
[00:19:56] And you know, it's a self-regulation problem. It's not a character flaw, it's a self-regulation problem. And when you put it through that. Lens. When you look at it through that lens and you see these big explosive pushbacks, here's some language that you can try, so it could sound like it's gonna sound familiar from the last little section.
[00:20:19] I see that you're super upset. I'm gonna take a break until we can talk about this without yelling. Or I'm not gonna argue with you. I hear that you have some points, some valid points. Let's go cool off so that we can try to talk about this again later, right? And when and if things escalate, you do not need to match her intensity.
[00:20:42] Even though your mirror neurons are going to be firing right, your mirror neurons are gonna wanna get big and tough when she goes there. So you've got to do whatever works for you. For me, it's like, okay, I'm gonna pull my shoulders back. I'm feeling my feet on the floor. I'm slowing down my breath. That's what helps me stay regulated.
[00:21:05] That's what helps me keep my nervous system intact. When the people around me are having a hard time, am I a master at that? No, I'm not perfect at that. But I do practice and I try to get better at it, and I try to be willing to do that when the people in my life are, you know, having their big feels. You get to model regulation by holding your own calm and remember what I've said before or what of my guests, who was it?
[00:21:35] Zoya, I think last week. She talks about how our teens borrow our nervous system. We talked about all of this in the podcast interview last week. You have to be calm to invite your child into a place of calm, and sometimes you can stay in the situation and do that. Sometimes you gotta walk away and that's okay.
[00:21:55] That is okay. All right.
[00:22:07] And then what about the resentment that you mentioned? You named resentment? The resentment that you feel? The sense that the only way to have peace is to give in and, oh man, this is the worst feeling. And I do, like I said, I've. I've had a lot of parents who were like, oh, you know, they're only, you know, nice to me when they, there's something that they want and you know, they're just trying to manipulate me.
[00:22:34] I think it's important to remember that our kids have been observing us. You've heard me say this before, you, since the beginning. So they do know how to get what they want. And I think it's important to remember, we all wanna get what we want. Like you wanna get what you want, right? Listener? You wanna get what you want from your teen.
[00:22:53] They wanna get what they want from you, right? And so, okay, okay. When you notice resentment showing up, remember that resentment is an indicator and it is an indicator that your boundaries and needs have been ignored. And often you are the one that's ignoring your boundaries and your needs by avoiding the conflict.
[00:23:18] So it's so interesting, right? We're mad at them for stomping on our boundaries when. Truth be told, we're not following through and doing what we said we would do when it comes to our boundaries. So that sucks. You know? And I get it. Like they are so smart, you know, and they, some of our kids are really savvy with language and they might be really great potential lawyers and really good at arguing and it can feel defeating not to be able to keep your point or get your point across.
[00:23:54] In those moments, noticing that resentment, noticing that moment where you're like, Ugh, fine. And instead, the invitation that I'm gonna give you with some script, when you start to feel flustered or you notice resentment has shown up in the room, you can say, you know what? I'm not sure how to respond to that yet.
[00:24:14] I need a little bit of time to think. So let's just put a pin in it and come back to it later. Or you can say. I hear what you want. I get it, and I'll let you know my decision after I've had some time to consider it. You don't have to figure everything out. Solve problems, give answers, right in the heat of the moment.
[00:24:40] You get to take some time to pause, to calm down, and to really consider what it is that your kiddo's asking for and how it fits in with. Your beliefs and your values and your boundaries, right? Those phrases that I just mentioned, they can buy you time and can keep you from caving under pressure. But I will say caving under pressure, I think, you know something that I noticed that was that I had a lot of ideas.
[00:25:11] And when my kids would come to me with something, I'd be a, I would be a quick no. And then they'd kind of continue to paint the picture of what it was that they actually wanted and make a case for it. And I was always willing to say, you know what, actually I'm okay with that. There's nothing wrong with that.
[00:25:32] You're not being a doormat. You're not being permissive. When they continue to come to you with more information about whatever it is that they want, it's okay to change your mind. You're allowed, right? As long as you're keeping your values, your beliefs like keep everything in alignment, as long as it's not a mind change, because you just wanna avoid the confrontation or the wrath, right?
[00:26:00] Resentment is an indicator that you are not holding or declaring your own boundaries
[00:26:11] and then you know, there's that conversation around fake it till you make it. In some ways, yes. Sometimes we lead with action. We show up, we invest in connection, and that's absolutely what we get to keep doing. I would say absolutely keep doing that. Well, actually, now that I'm really talking about it, here's what I think about.
[00:26:33] Fake it till you make it. You know, the one place where I've heard parents really struggle is when I say, you know, when I invite them to believe in the best case scenario. When I invite them to believe that their kids are capable, when I invite them to believe that everything's gonna be okay. And then in that place of believing, how are they inspired to interact?
[00:26:54] To take action to show up, right? And I've had parents who are like, but I don't believe that. And that, I would say, well, first of all, you know, there's no way your kid can believe in themselves if you don't believe in them. So do whatever you need to do to shift into believing in your child. They need you to believe in you.
[00:27:17] They're gonna move through hard times. They're moving through challenging times. Adolescence is a shit show. They need you to believe in them, right? They need you to keep showing up and keep investing in the connection and grow some tougher skin too, and it doesn't need to be every day, but. You get to show up and keep showing up.
[00:27:39] Here's some small ways that you can build connection, even when it feels strained in your relationship with your kiddo. So you can invite your teen into neutral activities like, Hey, let's go grab a Starbucks before school. I did that a lot during Rowan's freshman year, or wanna watch this show together.
[00:27:57] Another thing that we watched a lot of criminal minds. I never would've watched that show. Rowan was obsessed with it, and I knew. That if that's what we were watching, she'd come down and let me sit near her. And I just like energetically pour out all of my love all over her. Another small way to build connection is to acknowledge their effort, not the outcome.
[00:28:20] So it could sound like, Hey, you know what? I noticed you got yourself out the door on time today. That shows a lot of responsibility. You know, you're figuring it out. What was helpful, I would always like to add a little question so that they can also recognize like, oh yeah, I did get out the door on time.
[00:28:34] What was helpful? I want them to be in that question. You also get to own your missteps, right? And make amends. Could sound like, I realized I got flustered and I totally shut down last night, or I was really, you know, rigid and how I responded to you and I'd really love to try to hear you out. I'm sorry that I treated you that way.
[00:28:58] It wasn't fair. Here's what I'm doing to help myself be better for next time and I'd really like to try again and hear you out. Right. Those small moments, build trust over time and soften the edges of the hard stuff. But you gotta show up to 'em. You have to be willing, right? I have clients who, you know, it's been a long haul, but they've done the work and.
[00:29:23] You know, they're finding themselves in ever better relationships with their teens and that's amazing. That's amazing. 'cause don't, you know, we wanna be in relationship with them for the long haul. Right. And how we respond to them now can pave the way there's something really attractive. About a person who's willing to have some boundaries while also open to seeing you, connecting with you, accepting you, being curious about you.
[00:29:55] You know? It's good stuff. It's good stuff. So yeah, to the mama who wrote in and to everyone that's listening, it is never too late. It is not too late to. Build relationship and bring some more structure to the home environment. And by structure I do not mean rigid rules. I do mean like a container where everybody's on the same page.
[00:30:22] You know, this is what I love about family meetings, actually. Family meetings are so powerful in that they really allow. The family to be on the same page about things, and they're a space where everybody gets to have a voice and contribute to the conversation. So I love family meetings. In fact, in the show notes, I'll put my little family meetings opt-in link.
[00:30:45] So if you haven't grabbed my family meeting guide for family meetings with teens, you can grab it there. It's not too late, I promise you. It's not too late. Boundaries and connection, like I just said, can coexist. Even with big personalities, even with a DHD, even with years of it not looking like that, so listener that wrote in and everyone else, your daughter, your kids, they don't need you to suddenly become the perfect limit enforcer.
[00:31:15] That's not what they need. What they need is for you to show up, stay calm, and invite them into collaboration. Be emotionally honest. Hold onto yourself while the storms come, right? Take care of you. You get to model that, and that's work that you can start right now. So again, the next time you're facing that pushback, try one of these simple scripts.
[00:31:40] I need to think about that. We'll get back to you. I'm not gonna argue. Let's talk later. I want this year to work for both of us. Let's figure out what feels good. That's firmness and kindness together, that's leadership, and it's absolutely what positive discipline looks like in action. And I'm not gonna sit here and act like it's not messy because it is, it's messy.
[00:32:09] And guess who's available if you need more support? Me. Yours truly. Your friend Casey. I work one-on-one with parents around. Exactly these kinds of challenges. So if you listen today and you felt seen in the podcast and you'd like a little bit more handholding, some support. A cheerleader, an accountability partner.
[00:32:32] I've got you. I've got the membership. I've got one-on-one coaching book, a 15 minute free call with me and let's figure out what is the best fit for you. You can go to be spr audible.com/explore. We can connect. I can let hear a little bit more about you and I can let you know what I've got for you.
[00:32:52] Alright? That's what it is today, my friends. If this episode hit home for you, of course, I would love to hear about it. Feel free to reach out to me via email, [email protected]. Please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. You guys, it's so helpful for the show to grow. When there's a lot of incoming reviews, so please do me a solid with that and think about what is one of the scripts that you heard today.
[00:33:19] That you're gonna try this week with your team. I wanna know. All right. That's it. Have a beautiful day, and I'll see you soon. Bye.
[00:33:33] Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my SPR partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you, Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:34:01] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents. Of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.