Eps 607: Dr. Jean Twenge and the 10 Rules for Tech with Teens

“Joyful Courage means staying steady and grounded as a parent even when things feel hard. It’s finding the balance between holding firm boundaries and keeping a sense of humor, compassion, and connection with our kids.”

Resources & Links from Today’s Episode

• 10 Rules for Raising Kids in a High Tech World by Jean Twenge
• Generations: The Real Differences Between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers, and Silents—and What They Mean for America’s Future by Jean Twenge
• iGen: Why Today’s Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy—and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood by Jean Twenge
• Jean Twenge’s website: www.jeantwenge.com

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement. In the messy terrain of adolescents, this season of parenting is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. So honored that you're here and listening, please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate. And review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] All right, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited to share my guest with you all today. Her name is Dr. Chin Twangy. Dr. Twangy is a psychologist, researcher, and author who has spent her career studying how technology shapes kids and teens. You may know her from her bestselling book, iGen, and now she's back with her newest publication, 10 Rules.
[00:01:49] For raising kids in a high tech world, gene combines science and practical wisdom to help parents find their way through the challenges of raising kids in today's screen saturated world. I already said hello to Dr. Twangy and just said, thank you so much because we are so deep into this crisis of screen overuse, misuse, addiction.
[00:02:14] I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much. So you have spent years researching the generational shifts and the impact of technology on young people. What inspired you to write this particular book with these 10 rules? There's
[00:02:31] Jean Twenge: a number of things. So first, you know, it's based on, um, doing a lot of research on adolescent mental health and how that relates to technology use.
[00:02:39] That led me to do a lot of talks for parent groups and hearing their questions. Plus, I have three teenagers now and I. Yeah, I know, right? Welcome to the club. Yeah. So when I, when I started, uh, you know, doing research in this area, my kids were pretty young and smartphones really weren't an issue yet.
[00:03:00] Social media wasn't on the table. Uh, but now they're 18, 15 and 13, so right in the middle of it and just. Given my experiences and realizing that those were echoed by so many parents across the country made me really want to write a book of very concrete and practical advice for parents about how to find that, you know, middle ground with technology.
[00:03:24] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and that's, I, before I even hit record, I thank you for that because you know, there's been some really great books that have come out. I loved the anxious generation especially, but parents know there's a problem. Yeah,
[00:03:37] Jean Twenge: exactly. Like we know there's a problem. It's like Exactly. They don't, they don't need 500 pages to tell 'em there's a problem.
[00:03:41] Casey O'Roarty: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Tell us what to do. Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, your book just straight off the top is so practical. I've already started talking about it with my clients. I just was interviewed on a different podcast. And I didn't realize going into it that the host wanted to talk about screens. And I was, well, I was like, well, I'll talk about screens with you, but everything I'm gonna say came straight outta this book, you know?
[00:04:05] And my kids are 19 and 22, and there are so many things that I would do differently if I could go back, including making sure that my mom did not get them iPads when they were as young as they were. I feel like my listeners are already deep in the trenches of adolescence. Many of their, they know this is not, you know, this is woven so deeply into family life and it feels so impossible to reign in.
[00:04:31] How are you approaching the parents that you're speaking to who are feeling discouraged or behind the curve on, mm-hmm. Oh God, the monster's already out. Mm-hmm. What do we do now?
[00:04:42] Jean Twenge: Yeah. So it, it is absolutely true, and I'll acknowledge this, that, yeah, if you can start from the beginning, you know, of elementary school and, you know, try to build from there, that that is the easiest.
[00:04:53] But many of us don't have that privilege if your kids are older and you have to try to roll things back. I had to, I had to do that with my kids in their laptops. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. So I hear a lot of resignation out there. I hear, you know, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. All the time, or this is just the way kids are now, and I get where that discouragement comes from.
[00:05:12] But you're the parent. You can put the genie back in the bottle. Yeah, you can. Yeah. So putting parental controls on the laptop, that was one of the ways that I had to roll back some stuff. Mm-hmm. And then over time, developing those, realizing you can come up with. Ages when you wanna introduce these technologies.
[00:05:32] Yeah. It doesn't have to be as I hear so often. Oh, it depends. It depends on the family. It depends on the kid. That's the advice that I found when I went looking for other books on this topic. And even apart from my research, just. As a parent, for me personally, that was so frustrating and so unhelpful.
[00:05:49] Yeah. Again, just tell me what I need to do. So just, you know, as one of the example of some of the rules, rule five is give the first smartphone, meaning an internet enabled phone with the driver's license. So at least 16, if you're in a big city, it can be 60 and getting around by yourself on public transportation in most areas of the country.
[00:06:09] Mm-hmm. It's gonna be with, with the driver's license. Mm-hmm. And so that's a nice concrete. Age and event to aim for. Mm-hmm. Now, if your 14-year-old has a smartphone, or your 12-year-old has a smartphone, what do you do then? Right. Right. That's what a lot of parents say. So you're the parent, you pay the bill.
[00:06:28] Yeah. Replace it with a basic phone. So a phone design for kits like Gab or Tru or Pinwheel.
[00:06:35] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. With
[00:06:35] Jean Twenge: no internet browser, no social media and important these days. No AI chat bots.
[00:06:41] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and I, I, you know, there's these two things, right? I, when I think about parents navigating this, there's, tell me the rules, but then there's also the work of being with.
[00:06:53] The pushback, the discouragement. Mm-hmm. Like when you say you're the parent, like, I wanna say that again. You are the parent. And it's not about being punitive, being a dictator, it's not about authoritarian parenting. That's right. It's about health and wellbeing. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. Yeah. And your kids are gonna be pissed off at you.
[00:07:14] Right. And that's okay. They will get overnight. And I talk a lot too about just the coupling with. Those critical thinking conversations and validating like it does suck that you've had all this access and now I know better as a parent, so I have to do better. Yes. And that doesn't feel good to you and I get that and I'm still gonna do it 'cause that's how much I love you.
[00:07:37] Mm-hmm. Even though it's also uncomfortable to me. Right? Yeah, exactly. Ugh, man. Exactly. Will you tell us a little bit, because I mean we're not gonna go over every single rule. But give us the gist of some of the bigger rules. Like if, if there were three or four, which, mm-hmm. You guys, you have to get your hands on this book.
[00:07:55] Please get your hands on this book. Ho I'm hoping you'll come up with like a nice book club outline for all of us to like be in conversation. 'cause that's the other thing. I feel like parents feel isolated. Like they're the only ones. And we know because of the work we do, like every client I work with is struggling with screen limits.
[00:08:16] Yeah. And screens in general. So what are the big, you mentioned the 16 before social media. Mm-hmm. What else is in there that you would encourage parents to think about? Yeah.
[00:08:24] Jean Twenge: Although I, I wanna go off on, on the idea about parents being isolated first for a second. Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah, we're, we are. All facing these same problems.
[00:08:34] This is a group problem, not just an individual one. Yeah. So yeah, talk to other parents. If you can even talk to other parents about, Hey, you know, if you have kids in elementary school, we're all gonna agree not to get our kids phones until later. Yes. So there's a group called Wait Until Eighth that does that and or you could just do it informally.
[00:08:52] But you know, knowing that your kid is not gonna be the only one, now sometimes your kid is gonna be the only one and you gotta roll with that. But if you can make sure they're not more the better. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, rule five, as I mentioned, is don't get the internet enabled phone until age 16 or with the driver's license.
[00:09:10] So the other one I think is really, really important is rule two, which is no devices in the bedroom overnight. Yeah. And I always tell parents, you're gonna choose just one. To put your time and energy into enforcing it should be that one because that you failed. I failed at
[00:09:24] Casey O'Roarty: that Dr.
[00:09:25] Jean Twenge: Twangy.
[00:09:26] Casey O'Roarty: Mm. You know, they're okay.
[00:09:28] But I failed at that.
[00:09:30] Jean Twenge: It, it's not as easy as it sounds. Right. I will absolutely acknowledge that. In general, I thought it was really important in this book to acknowledge, Hey, look, this may not be easy. It is really important. But it's not always gonna be easy. And yeah, you're gonna occasionally get pushback, but with that one, I, I think you can cover your bases by saying, okay, we're gonna physically get those phones outta the bedroom and I'm gonna have parental controls on it.
[00:09:54] So it shuts down at bedtime or it shuts down everything except for calling at bedtime, depending on the age of your kid.
[00:10:01] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:02] Jean Twenge: So something. To carve out that time screen free for sleep, which is so crucial for physical and mental health. And there have been studies showing even if the phone's off, if it's in the room, it can interfere with sleep.
[00:10:16] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:17] Jean Twenge: Much less it being in the bed or right in arm's reach and notifications going off all day.
[00:10:34] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, so rule two. The other one that I love is rule number four, which is start with the basic. Mm-hmm. Start with the basic phone. They look just like a smartphone. The kids can save face, which is valid, you know, especially as they move into adolescence. They wanna feel like everybody else. But instead of, and, and you talk about this like.
[00:10:55] Start with the basic phone. I love the phrasing too. We don't wanna call it a kid phone. Yeah. I've heard them call dumb phones. I'm like, let's not call them that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Start with the basic and then you get to build up versus mm-hmm. Getting a hold of a fully stocked iPhone and trying to figure out those.
[00:11:15] 'cause the, I mean, they, they kind of present like, oh, we've got parental controls, but they're. There's workarounds. They're complicated. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So talk a little bit about why it's so important to start with that basic phone.
[00:11:26] Jean Twenge: Yeah. So iPhones, look, I have an iPhone. I love them. However, the parental controls on them are really hard to use.
[00:11:35] Mm-hmm. And they're, they're not the panacea, they're sometimes made out by the companies to be, and so you can get third party software, but that. Is good, but still fallible. Um, so what I really like about those basic phones is that there's just certain things that are completely off the table. So social media and ai, chat bots being top of the list.
[00:12:01] That and other things. I mean, I, I went into, so my younger two kids are 13 and 15. They both have. Phones like this. Mm-hmm. So I went into you, they have pinwheel phones and I went into the list of the band apps under pinwheel phones that just are not ever allowed, even with parental permission. Crazy. I mean the, just for whatever reason, maybe just, you know, being a middle aged parent, I had no idea most of this stuff was out there.
[00:12:24] Casey O'Roarty: Okay. So it was crazy because you were like, oh, that's a thing.
[00:12:28] Jean Twenge: Yes. Yeah. Like AI, boyfriends and girlfriends. Oh gosh. I just listened to a podcast about that. I know. Which dark, unfortunately, those I already knew about. Yeah. Because my 13-year-old does Duolingo. Mm-hmm. Supposed to be good. Right. And gets ads for ai, boyfriends and girlfriends by Duolingo.
[00:12:46] 'cause all of those, all those games have have ads on them. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Now she can't, she cannot click through to those ads, thank goodness. Sure. Yeah. But they show up.
[00:12:55] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. What else was on that list that was surprising? Yeah. Oh, man. Gambling. There's gambling apps. Oh, yeah. Which is a problem, is a ton of gambling apps.
[00:13:03] Right. It's a real pro our, I don't think parents are aware of how Yep. Problematic online gambling is. Yes. With especially our teen boys.
[00:13:11] Jean Twenge: Yeah. And there's, there's all kinds of other stuff too. Yeah. That a lot of it has adult in the name. Mm-hmm. Or it'll be sexy chat or. Adult find the differences, you know?
[00:13:22] Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. And dating apps. Dating apps are another one. Mm-hmm. And, and most of these places don't verify age. Most of these apps do not verify age. So do you want your 13-year-old on a dating app?
[00:13:34] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, definitely. The answer should be no. Exactly. You do not. So give us some nitty gritty around mm-hmm.
[00:13:41] Because I, I'm, again, I'm thinking about my listener and God bless the listeners who are thinking ahead and listening to the show with younger. You know, elementary or early adolescent kids and they're really gaining from like, okay, here's how we'll start. But I, I really wanna support those listeners who are like, and like I said, the genie's outta the bottle.
[00:14:00] And we've already mentioned like, you're the adult, do the thing. Yeah. What are some really practical tips for, for how, and even as I'm saying that, I'm thinking to myself, well, yeah, Casey, it's just basically saying like, sorry. Mm-hmm. We gotta backtrack here, but what else? You know, as you're working with and talking to parents about, as you hear pushback from them.
[00:14:23] What are the, some of the things that you're saying to them that will help in the course correction without completely blowing up the relationship with their, with their teen? Yeah. 'cause they're, God, they're so attached. Yes. And they don't know any different either. I think that's, they don't know the contrast.
[00:14:41] So it's like, what are you even talking about taking this away from me?
[00:14:45] Jean Twenge: Yeah, so as you were mentioning earlier, you know, it really comes back to that parenting style of not authoritarian or what I call tiger shark parenting of just my way or the highway. Here's how it's gonna be. I mean, look, sometimes you have to resort to that.
[00:14:58] Sure. But most of the time. You want to do what some people call, uh, dolphin parenting. Mm-hmm. I've heard that. Yeah. So firm, but flexible, but loving but firm.
[00:15:07] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:15:07] Jean Twenge: And kind
[00:15:07] Casey O'Roarty: and firm is what we
[00:15:08] Jean Twenge: call it in positive discipline. Totally. Yeah, exactly. And I totally agree with you as well, that I think that especially with teens, just being honest of like, look, I made a mistake.
[00:15:19] We have to change because I found out a lot of stuff I didn't know when I gave you this phone or gave you this laptop without parental controls and. My job, one of my most important jobs is to keep you safe and to make sure that you are as happy and healthy as possible. So I have to do a few things to make sure that that's the case.
[00:15:41] Mm-hmm. And you know, one thing I sometimes think about too is think about the alternatives and you can present these to your team of, okay, so maybe we're not gonna have that smartphone anymore. I'm gonna give you this other phone that's more paired down. Oh, you're upset about that. I understand that. I can understand you're upset.
[00:15:59] Mm-hmm. The other choice is for you not to have a phone at all.
[00:16:02] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:16:02] Jean Twenge: You present it like that. Yeah. Most kids would be like, oh, oh, oh, okay. Okay. Sure. Right.
[00:16:08] Casey O'Roarty: Right. And it's not like a, you know, listeners, I'm kind of moving my head around like, oh, you don't like that. Well, how about no phone? I know, I know, I know, know
[00:16:16] Jean Twenge: I did that a little bit too.
[00:16:17] And that's not probably how you should do it with your kid. Um,
[00:16:20] Casey O'Roarty: but I think it's valid to say like, listen man, listen kid. Mm-hmm. This is, it would be so much easier for me to close my eyes and just let this run its course. Yeah. And I know too much. Yes, I know too much and I care too much. Yes. And so I'm choosing the hard, like this is hard to parent this way.
[00:16:42] I love that. I, and I
[00:16:43] Jean Twenge: think that's great to say
[00:16:44] Casey O'Roarty: that. Yeah, for sure. Because I care so much. And if we can't do it this way, then we, we just can't do it. And I, that's something that we talk about too, is I think parents forget that the phones are a privilege.
[00:16:58] Jean Twenge: Yes, exactly.
[00:17:00] Casey O'Roarty: Right. And without responsibility and not like.
[00:17:03] Make your bed so you get your phone. But like no engaging conversations around limits and healthy use, that's the responsibility. Exactly. And without, without that, we do get to this entitled place where the phones are like an attachment to the arm. And you know, putting it away as, I mean, and I was just talking to somebody else about this, it's not like.
[00:17:22] We're like, okay, we're just, you know, a lot of cocaine is really bad for you, but you know, one line a day and you know, but I'm gonna put it right here. Don't bitch and moan at me about not getting more access. Like, it's just impossible. And you hear parents talking about kind of flippantly, like, oh yeah, my kid totally addicted to their screen.
[00:17:42] Like you'd never say, oh yeah, my kid totally addicted to, you know, heroin, but what are you gonna do? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. But there's this weird thing. In a society right now where it's just so normalized that this has become a such a big part of our lives that, I mean, I was just moving my youngest into college and watching.
[00:18:03] Even getting on an, an elevator and seeing everybody pull up their phone. I even said out loud, I was like, oh, you kids. I'm like, what? Little awkward silence in the elevator. You have an out, you know, I was kind of teasing them, but truly, you know, their ability to be with awkward and uncomfortable and, and we do it too, don't we?
[00:18:23] Yeah. I mean, it's a kid, it's a, it's a human problem. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:35] Talk a little bit about the chatbots and the ai Yeah. And, and what makes that something that we want to really pay attention to and avoid.
[00:18:43] Jean Twenge: Yeah. So it's really early days with this stuff. Yeah. Um, we don't have a lot of research on it yet, but I think if you just think about this, you know, as an adult human being, do we want our kids first experience with a.
[00:18:59] Romantic relationship to be with a chatbot, and if they have that as that first experience, what is that going to teach them about romantic relationships? Yeah, that's really scary when you think about it that way because the, just for context, so parents know these chatbots are written, they're programmed to always be positive and affirming.
[00:19:23] The ones that are written for like sexy. Chat our program to always be in that state of mind and have that conversation be ready to
[00:19:30] Casey O'Roarty: roll. Yeah. Which is not the human experience. Right,
[00:19:34] Jean Twenge: right. Yeah. And you think about it. Say a 13-year-old boy who that's
[00:19:39] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Jean Twenge: How he has his first experience. What is he gonna expect from girls and women going forward?
[00:19:43] It's really frightening.
[00:19:44] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And even though the research isn't totally in on that, the research is in around porn.
[00:19:50] Jean Twenge: Yes.
[00:19:51] Casey O'Roarty: And, and, and what that's done to our kids' generation of, of sexual development. Yes. I mean, I, I feel like we didn't look hard enough downstream. Early on, and now we have an opportunity with AI to be recognizing that.
[00:20:10] I mean, listen. I love Cha. GPTI call cha, GPT, my intern. It does a lot of work for me, and I can see how slippery the slope is. Mm-hmm. As far as my messaging and my voice and how I, how it could be used. And Im a 50, almost 52-year-old, you know, navigating this and we're talking about thirteens, fourteens, fifteens.
[00:20:35] They do not have the brain development to be with. What feels, and from what I understand with these chat or the AI relationships feels very real. Mm-hmm. Feels very real. Yeah. Oof. Okay. So if I'm a person with a kid who got one of the newest generations of iPhone and has, I apparently comes with chat GPT just already right there, what do they do about that?
[00:21:00] Can you disengage it? I don't even know the language. Mm-hmm. Well, if your
[00:21:04] Jean Twenge: kid's 15 or under. Get 'em a different phone. Okay. Period. Just do it. You know? I mean, that's my suggestion. Yes. I'm not saying that would be the easiest thing in the world, but that's what you should do.
[00:21:12] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. We're talking, you know, and I love it.
[00:21:14] Like, can I just acknowledge you for just taking that stand? Like, just stop everyone just but on your big girl pants and interrupt what is happening in your household and mm-hmm. And in the world. Yeah.
[00:21:27] Jean Twenge: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Casey O'Roarty: So get that basic phone. Oof. Yeah. Yep. How have you, so you've, you're in the trenches with us, so what kind of pushback have you gotten, have you navigated with your kiddos and what's been the harder things for you?
[00:21:40] As the expert on all of this, I'm sure your kids are thrilled with your career choice.
[00:21:46] Jean Twenge: Well, you know, I have three kids. They're all different. Mm-hmm. Though I've had three different experiences with this. Mm-hmm. Um, my oldest had a flip phone until she was 16 and a half. She was fine with it. She's kind of, I always say, and I mean this as a compliment, as well as an observation, she's a unique individual.
[00:22:03] Yeah. And she, uh, has, uh, you know, as an 18-year-old co a young adult come to embrace that, which is great. So she was cool with it.
[00:22:10] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:22:10] Jean Twenge: But, you know, then she started driving and got lost and it just. Seemed clear. It was, it was time. Mm-hmm. You know, for the, for the smartphone. And she was just never that interested in social media because, partially because when she was, get this nine, another kid in her fourth grade class when they were, you know, hanging out together, filmed her without her permission and posted it.
[00:22:32] Ah, so that was extremely early on a negative experience. Yeah. And so that was one reason why she was never that interested. My 15-year-old would be on every single social media app in existence if I'd let her.
[00:22:44] Casey O'Roarty: Okay.
[00:22:45] Jean Twenge: So she has tried to get on Instagram more times than I could count. Okay. Um, and her phone.
[00:22:52] It doesn't add the capability. Right. One of the many reasons, I love the basic phones mm-hmm. And parental controls on the laptop have stepped in to, to stop that.
[00:23:02] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:23:02] Jean Twenge: The parental controls are, I, I do recommend them. They are not perfect. Uh, the one that I use, I opened one day to find that both the, my kids who are using Snapchat on their laptops mm-hmm.
[00:23:14] I'm like, why I, and I had checked the box for blog. All social networks, but they didn't put Snapchat under the category of social networks. Hmm. I don't know why. Mm-hmm. But then fortunately it did tell me that they, they were doing that and that I was able to add it to the block list. Yeah. But that these are some of the challenges that, you know, that parents face that make for sure me and many other people really wish there was more regulation in this area that would really help.
[00:23:37] And it raise the minimum age for social media from 13 to 16. My youngest is 13, she's kind of in the middle. On this. She would like some of this, but she understands partially 'cause she's seen some of the effects herself. She tells me about kids, uh, excusing themselves to go to the bathroom and watching TikTok in there.
[00:23:55] She's, yeah, so she can hear people laughing in the bathrooms because at school, 'cause they've gone and done this. Uh, but she pushes back too. Like just the other day I told her that she and her sister could not have, uh, Pinterest on their phones. And she said, what? You don't want us to be inspired? Yeah, she's a teenager now.
[00:24:13] Dare you. I know, right? And I said, you can be inspired in other ways. Yeah, yeah. Oh man. But isn't that the classic teenager come up with these very clever, sometimes even funny pushbacks and retorts and you have to think on your feet for something to say.
[00:24:32] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and that's true. And their pushback isn't a character flaw.
[00:24:34] I think that's something, yes. Even looking around and we gotta understand even that they're teenagers,
[00:24:39] Jean Twenge: that's their job. Yeah. That job is to push back and sometimes you're gonna give into that pushback. Mm-hmm. But other times you're not. And you have to Yeah. Stand your ground. Which, yeah, is hard, but not necessary.
[00:24:51] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and my guess is you also couple your limits and your rules with lots of. Conversation and really normalizing that. It's not just about throwing down some rules and then mm-hmm. Okay, do it or you're in trouble. Right. But just, I mean, I was just talking to somebody else. One of the things that I feel really good about is even though I could've tightened things up a lot more than I did, one thing that I was able to do, especially with my youngest, not so much with my oldest, is we would compare screen time.
[00:25:24] If I said, pull out your phone. Let's see who's winning. Right. And we would compare he and I. Mm-hmm. Because I al, I mean, I have the Opal app on my phone to shut down certain apps during certain times of day because I can't stay off of them and I'm, you know, old. Mm-hmm. So, you know, we have normalized it and I really work hard.
[00:25:44] And, and have, you know, my goal also inside of limits is also how am I encouraging critical thinking about use? And, and I want my kids to notice, not just be on the hunt of how to outsmart me, but instead like, what, how is this getting, is this getting in my way? How am I feeling when I look at this versus this?
[00:26:03] Ooh. Mm-hmm. This left out feeling. So I think there's that piece along with everything that you write about in this book, which I think is such a brilliant resource, and I'm so grateful. That you created it for all of us. Thank you very much. And I love hearing about your very normal teenagers as well, because Yeah, they're living in this world of technology, oversaturation and man, we've gotta, we've gotta support them.
[00:26:29] We have to support the humans. All the humans with this. For sure. So as we close, what kind of encouragement or hope can you leave listeners with as they get ready to make some changes in their household? So you are not
[00:26:45] Jean Twenge: in this alone. Parents all over the country in the world are dealing with these same issues.
[00:26:51] So realize that one of my favorite aphorisms is do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
[00:26:59] Casey O'Roarty: And
[00:26:59] Jean Twenge: what that means is if you can't do everything perfectly, that is just fine.
[00:27:05] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:06] Jean Twenge: That even if you can follow only some of the rules, even if you can only keep your kids off of things most of the time, or until a certain age, you've still done some good.
[00:27:18] So it is so hard. You know, parenting overall is hard. And then you throw these technologies, which are so unregulated into it where we're responsible for this and we really shouldn't be. It's tough. So we have to give ourselves a little bit of a break, but don't give up. Do what you can. Mm-hmm. And it will do you and your kids a lot of good.
[00:27:37] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Don't give up. Take care of yourself. Find that inner strength. 'cause it's a, I mean, adolescents in and of itself is a messy wild ride. Uh, add technology into it and it's just can feel maddening. Well, I always end my interviews with a question with the same question, which is, in this context, what does joyful courage mean to you?
[00:27:59] Jean Twenge: Mm-hmm. I think it means having the joyful courage to do what's right for your kids and your family, even if it's not easy. And even if they do push back on some of the rules.
[00:28:14] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Beautiful. Where can people find you and follow your work?
[00:28:18] Jean Twenge: Uh, so my website is just my name, jean twangy.com and that has all my books on there.
[00:28:26] My background is as a generations researcher, so my last book was called Generations. Mm-hmm. Uh, kind of set up a lot of the, the research and, and, um. Background for, for this book on on parenting, and probably because I do what I do, I don't have much social media. All I have is X, which is a different place now than it used to be.
[00:28:46] Yeah. But I try to now do my updates on my substack, which is called Generation Tech. So that's probably awesome. The best place to go. If you wanna see, you know, what research I'm doing and what, uh, what I have new to report.
[00:29:01] Casey O'Roarty: Great. And I'll make sure those links are in the show notes. I'm gonna make sure there's a link to your book.
[00:29:05] Parents, get your hands on this. You want this? Don't just get it from the library. Get your own copy because you're gonna come back to it. You're gonna mark it up again if you're gonna mark it up. Yeah, totally. Thank you so much for spending time with me today. This was so useful and I'm just really, really grateful for the work that you're doing in the world.
[00:29:19] Thank you. Thank
[00:29:20] Jean Twenge: you.
[00:29:26] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making. Sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:29:54] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.