Eps 618: Loving the teen you have with Dr. Ann-Louise Lockhart

What does Joyful Courage mean to you?

“So to me, joyful courage is the willingness to lean in to the hard and messy parts of parenting with hope and joy and love and patience and presence. And it’s having the courage to face conflict and big emotions, but choosing joy in the connection that you’re building. Just the contentment in the relationship, even when it’s imperfect.” – Dr. Lockhart

Where to find Dr. Lockhart:

Website | https://drannlouiselockhart.com/
IG | @dr.annlouise.lockhart

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement. In the messy terrain of adolescents, this season of parenting is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. So honored that you're here and listening, please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate. And review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] Hi, listeners. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to let you know who my guest is today. She is a friend of the show, Dr. Anne Louise Lockhart is back to share her wisdom with us. I'm so excited. Just to remind you, Dr. Lockhart is a pediatric psychologist, parent, coach, speaker, and author who helps overwhelm parents.
[00:01:46] Raised confident, emotionally healthy kids and teens. As the founder of a new day pediatric psychology, she empowers families to move from chaos to connection. Using practical tools, rooted in clinical expertise and real life parenting. She's the author of an upcoming book, launching October 28th this month, next week, really titled, love the Teen.
[00:02:09] You Have a Practical Guide to Transforming Conflict Into Connection. She's been featured in the New York Times Parents HuffPost. And on the Today Show, her dynamic relatable style has made her a trusted voice for parents nationwide. You can catch her on the show in episode 2 85 and 3 55. If you wanna go back, definitely check those out.
[00:02:33] Dr. Lockhart, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks, Casey.
[00:02:36] Ann Louise Lockhart: It's been too long. It's so good to be back.
[00:02:39] Casey O'Roarty: I know. Seriously. 3 55. That was like six years ago.
[00:02:43] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yeah, I think that's crazy. I think it was when I was first starting on this platform, I mean, with Instagram and everything, when I started my practice was when I, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:52] Connected.
[00:02:52] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just so glad that you're back. I'm really excited about your new book. Can you talk a little bit about what inspired you to write Love the Teen you have, and what you hope most that parents take away from it? Let's start there.
[00:03:06] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yeah, I wrote this book because I kept hearing from my parent coaching clients themes over and over again.
[00:03:13] I don't recognize my teen anymore. Everything feels like a fight. I feel like I'm losing my kid. I don't recognize them. All these different things, and I wanted to create something that was practical and compassionate. That would help parents see their teen, not as a problem to fix or to rescue, but as a relationship to nurture.
[00:03:34] And a lot of books out there, as you know, there's a lot of books for when you're pregnant, when they're toddlers, when they're teething, when they can't sleep, and then maybe some childhood stuff and then, then nothing. And then now you're an adult and you're, you know, trying to find relationships. And there wasn't a lot of resources.
[00:03:52] For parents of tweens and teens and or they were very specific. Just for boys or just for girls, or just about period, or just about your body or, yeah. You know, and all these different things. And so my biggest hope is that parents will take away realizing that they don't have to have it all figured out.
[00:04:09] Uh, but it's just about connection and curiosity, consistency. And that goes a lot further than. Perfection. It's not about a bunch of hacks or perfection. It's about the connection and the relationship. So I really wanted something that was going to be encouraging and that could be evergreen, that they could always refer to it at any point, regardless of the stage between ages nine and 19.
[00:04:31] Mm-hmm.
[00:04:32] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and what I love about it and, and you in general is that I feel like, 'cause there are vo there's plenty of voices out there and I was just recording a little bit ago a show and we were talking about sleep. And afterwards the guest was like, I kept thinking like, gosh, I feel like I should have like a three part formula for how to.
[00:04:55] And I said, well, then we'd all know that you were full of shit because there is no formula. This is so messy. Mm-hmm. And we, we add to the mess, teen brain development adds to the mess. I love the title of your book. Love the Teen You Have, because to me that speaks to like right here, right now. What's going on right here, right now?
[00:05:19] It feels like, can I be with this without projecting into the future? Without getting stuck in, oh gosh, something has to change because it's always gonna be this way. I just really appreciate the idea that we can be compassionate for the experience that our teens are moving through. And compassionate to ourselves because it's hard.
[00:05:44] It's hard. And there are, there are, there is misleading information as if there is a formula for doing it. Right. And if you're not getting the results, somehow you're doing it wrong, so.
[00:05:55] Ann Louise Lockhart: Correct. Right. You know, and, and if your teen is not. On the right track, or they're making poor choices, you must have screwed up somewhere.
[00:06:03] Right? When they have their free will, they make their own choices. They're individuating on their own, they're being their own individual. So no, don't put so much pressure on yourself thinking that you have missed the mark somewhere because they missed the mark. Yeah. And we need to stop doing that as parents.
[00:06:20] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. 'cause that's just such a recipe to just feel crummier and. Not show up well. Mm-hmm. One of the things that we've talked about and that you actually, this was something that I had not heard of. We were in conversation just around kids who identify as a DHD. I don't know if identify as is the right way to put that, but who are, you know, navigating the world with?
[00:06:44] Mm-hmm. That neurodivergent brain, and you've talked to me about. You know, rejection sensitivity, which is, was like mind blowing to me. I'd never heard of that. And it makes perfect sense. And, and this is something that I wanna bring back today because, you know, especially our kiddos that are. For whatever reason in, in some kind of struggle, life is hard.
[00:07:08] Whether it's mental health or you know, learning differences or just you know who they are in their skin, they can start to develop this sensitivity to rejection. And, and I'm sure that I have listeners who are like, oh, yeah, yeah. Talk about that. How do you define rejection sensitivity? What does it look like?
[00:07:28] In teens day to day.
[00:07:30] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yeah. So rejection sensitivity dysphoria or RSD was a term coined by Dr. William Dotson because he found in 99% of his A DHD patients that they had this rejection, this sensitivity to rejection. And it, and I've also it, so it's not a diagnosis, it's a way of experiencing the world and it's basically an exaggerated.
[00:07:55] Response to feeling judged or criticized or left out. Even receiving feedback, even if that's not the intention, to make you feel bad, that's how they often interpret it. So for teens, it can show up as a simple. What's wrong with me? Or you don't love me or I don't do anything right. Or, uh, they hate me, so Well, hey, you know, how was your math test today?
[00:08:20] I know you were struggling with it. Oh, you think I'm stupid? Mm-hmm. Uh, dude, that is not what I said.
[00:08:25] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. Or,
[00:08:26] Ann Louise Lockhart: uh, I don't know if that top goes with those pants. Oh, well now I'm a loser and I should just never go out again. Like it's just this big, explosive kind of response and it's this intense emotional reaction.
[00:08:38] It feels really very real to them. It's this perception of ill will towards me, even if the actual situation doesn't match up. So typically they will have this explosive reaction, or they will have this implosion reaction. So they'll e either lash out or they'll withdraw depending on their temperament, their personality, their diagnosis.
[00:08:57] And I see it in a lot of teens who have a DHD. Also with a lot of teens who are very highly sensitive with, because they just perceive the world. They're very good observers. They're really great at reading the room, but sometimes they read the room too well or they misinterpret what they're reading in the room.
[00:09:16] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:17] Ann Louise Lockhart: And sometimes we see it in introverts too, because it's not because they're shy, it's because they are. Looking, they're stepping back and observing and figuring out what is going on in their room. And so sometimes they see people giggling and they're like, oh, they're talking about me. Or the, you know, teacher looks at them a little bit too long.
[00:09:37] Oh, they, they hate me. They think I'm a big dummy. And so it's just this really misperception, or sometimes they are reading. But they just take it to heart too deeply. And then they have this explosive reaction or impulsive reaction. So it's quite interesting and it can be very hard for them because they are perceiving the world in sometimes ways that are not accurate, and it's hard to convince them otherwise.
[00:10:00] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, I had a mentor who used to say, yeah, kids are great perceivers and poor interpreters. Hmm. And I wonder too about that tendency of the adolescent brain to center itself. I mean, I remember, you know, being a teenager and not liking my outfit and just being like, oh, I can't wear this, like. I don't know what reason I gave for it and my stepmom very quickly saying, nobody's even looking at you.
[00:10:28] And I was so offended by that, by the way. But then having a daughter who like the idea of getting up during class to go talk to the teacher, there was no way Yeah, that that was ever gonna happen because the last thing she wanted was anyone to look at her. And so I imagine that that's kind of on a.
[00:10:47] Spectrum, right? There's the kids that have tolerance and it's, and are kind of more easygoing around like, who cares? Or it's maybe not even in their mindset versus the ones that are like you said, kind of on the more, on that higher sensitivity scale. I wonder too about, would you say that this can be developed over time?
[00:11:08] Like I definitely have families that I've worked with. Where the kids are much more withdrawn as they become teenagers and closed off. And when we dig in, there is a lot, like if we look back, there has been a lot of criticism. There has been a lot of control that the parents have. Had the illusion of being able to have, and now they're adolescents and they're like, actually, I don't have to listen to you.
[00:11:36] I don't have to do it the way that you're doing it, you know? Is that also something that can feed into this? Yeah,
[00:11:42] Ann Louise Lockhart: because what we see is that teens that have diagnoses like. Autism, A DHD, even depression, OCD, anxiety, Tourette's, like a lot of these kids do get a lot of negative feedback. Mm-hmm. But when you look at autistic kids or A DHD kids, rather, a lot of them are being given feedback because their teachers, their adults in their life, their caregivers or parents don't fully understand.
[00:12:09] Them and their brain. So they're saying a lot of things because they're misinterpreting the teen's actions. So the teen has a hard time with executive function skills like task initiation. Oh, you're so lazy. Mm. Or their room is very messy. Oh, you're such a slob. Well, maybe it's organ poor organization, or they have a hard time remembering things and holding it in their head long enough.
[00:12:31] So when you tell 'em to do a series of tasks, 'cause their working memory sucks, then you're like, oh, you're so forgetful. And so we often will say these things because we think it's this behavior that needs to be corrected, thinking that punishment and insults are gonna. Help that. Yeah. And when move along we're, yeah, right.
[00:12:47] We're talking about toughen 'em up and it's this executive function deficits and challenges that are causing them challenges. So when they hear these things, these kids with A DHD who suffer often with rejection sensitivity do hear significantly more negative things than any other child. And so, yeah, of course they're gonna be more sensitive to rejection because they're front loaded with so much negative talk.
[00:13:13] It's hard for them to get out of that mindset because they're internal. They've internalized a lot of those messages.
[00:13:20] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. So
[00:13:20] Ann Louise Lockhart: we have to really be aware that when you're, when you're parenting teenagers, first of all, it has to be different compared to when they were five. And if you have a teenager, also with an A diagnosis like a DHD, you do have to parent them differently.
[00:13:35] Mm-hmm. Because they're different. Their brain is wired differently and they're not gonna respond like a neurotypical kid would.
[00:13:42] Casey O'Roarty: So if somebody's listening and they're nodding their head like, oh yeah, you are describing the current dynamic that I'm in with my kiddo. I'm walking on eggshells. I don't know how to give any feedback because everything is received as an attack.
[00:13:57] How do we start building a bridge? To shift that dynamic. What does that look like?
[00:14:03] Ann Louise Lockhart: So the walking on eggshells and feeling like you're on a battlefield, those are the analogies, metaphors, comparisons. I often hear from parents because it does feel like that way. Like my house is like a ticking time bomb.
[00:14:15] I can't say or do anything because they can set them off. Or what's a list of the triggers that I need to know before they get set off and what's happening that we need to be aware of? It's their nervous system. Their nervous system is on high alert. Four signs of rejection. Hmm. And so any inkling of those kinds of things, we have to realize that when, when you're giving feedback that something as simple as, Hey, don't forget your homework as they're heading out the door, their brain may not hear it as neutral information.
[00:14:45] Oh my, my caregiver. Cares about me and wants me to have my homework. They hear it as, you're failing again, you're dumb. You never do anything. Right. There you go. Forgetting again, you're not good enough. They're hearing a lot of those messages and so beneath the surface, they're carrying a lot of that shame and fear, which I, I work with a lot of men with A DHD who didn't know they had a DHD when they were kids or did.
[00:15:10] But you know, they grew up in the eighties and nineties and nobody really cared that you had a diagnosis. So Yeah, they, they have man, so many of these men have such a fear and shame language just rattling around at everything they do with their relationships, with their jobs, with their sense of self, and that they're not measuring up.
[00:15:28] So they over. And so we have to remember that these messages are coming through, so we have to educate our teen on these things. So you know what I've heard about this thing called rejection sensitivity, and what it basically means is that because you have a DHD, you are almost a hundred percent likely that you take neutral comments as insults.
[00:15:53] As negative feedback and you tend to internalize them. Do you think that's been your experience? So however you wanna approach it? I think it's so important that we educate our kids on their diagnosis and their strengths as well as their tendencies and pitfalls that tend to bring them down. So when we can educate them on that, like it has a, it has a name, you're not a weirdo for experiencing this.
[00:16:15] Mm-hmm. There's actually evidence that shows this is very, very common and this is what happens. Is that what it looks like for you? So that way they're like, oh, there is a word for this. There is a term for this. And so then when this shows up for you, what messages do you get in your head? So when I say something like, Hey, don't forget your homework.
[00:16:35] What do you actually hear? I hear that you think I'm a loser. Okay, that is not what I said. Mm-hmm. So what would help you receive it better? Or what would be the roadblock that we can take out of your way so it there isn't this big freak out happening so that you could truly hear the word that I'm saying.
[00:16:54] You could truly hear my intention and you don't think that I'm trying to insult you when I'm just trying to be helpful to you. So having a conversation with them, giving them words to this so they understand this is who you are and this could be for anything. Your teen, who's introverted, who mm-hmm. Uh, is, is great at math, but sucks at English.
[00:17:12] They love public speaking, but don't like sports. Whatever it is. It could be anything, interests, hobbies, pitfalls, any of those things, but helping them understand their tendencies so they don't think that there's something wrong with them because they're reacting a certain way. No, no, no. This has a name and it's actually really common, and this is what this means.
[00:17:29] Is that how it shows up for you? How can I support you so that we can get through it? Because it's a very hard thing to address.
[00:17:35] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, because
[00:17:36] Ann Louise Lockhart: they, they hear it and they're like, oh, now you wanna talk to me about what a loser I am? And you're like, dang it, I can't even talk to you about that issue.
[00:17:52] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and as I'm listening to you, I'm also thinking about how I am adjusting feedback to my college kids, because on one hand, I. Trust and believe that they're really capable. And I trust and believe that they believe that they're capable. And the mom in me sometimes is like, well, don't forget, you know?
[00:18:16] And so I'll say something like, I'm sure you've already thought about this. And my, the mom in me is getting the better of me. And then I'll say the thing because I know my experience of being pa continuing to be parented. Even in my midlife is what feels like, I wanna respond to my parent like, Hey, I'm 52.
[00:18:39] Okay, I'm not an idiot, like back off. And I don't wanna recreate that with my young adult kids. So I am even then kind of looking for opport and with my clients, like, I might say something, you've probably thought about this, or maybe you've already done this, but I just wanna offer something. And it's.
[00:18:56] What I'm hearing you talk about, it's such a respectful way of addressing something, even when we can't control how the other person receives it.
[00:19:06] Ann Louise Lockhart: Right. I love the language you use, especially when they're older, when they're 16, 17, college age, older adult kids. I love that. I love because it's, it's a respectful type of language and it's, it's saying that I believe in your competence.
[00:19:21] I believe in your ability to manage yourself. And I'm here alongside you. I'm, I'm your confidant. I'm your, I'm your team. I'm on your team. And one of the things that I'll do with my older teens that I see and with my own teens as they're older, the older one, uh, is saying things like, I noticed that you have an assignment due in a couple days.
[00:19:40] What are your plans for getting it done? And so that way again, it's assuming that they have a plan. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if they don't, you can come up with one right now. Yeah. You know, and so again, we, but we have to adjust our parent language and our approach based on their developmental stage, age diagnosis, all these different things, because we want them to know that I believe in you because I agree.
[00:20:02] You know, I'm a in my midlife and my mom is still asking me when we're going on a vacation, so what are you gonna do about the house? What do you mean? What do you mean? What am I gonna do with the house? Well, how do you know? How do you manage it so that you know in case something bad happens, like, oh my gosh, I've been living on my own longer than I was living with you.
[00:20:18] Like I've been married 27 years. Yeah, I think I got it. I figured some things out. Yeah. So it does feel a little insulting. Like, what do you mean you, you don't think I can manage my life, you know? Yeah. And. So even if you don't have rejection sensitivity, right, when someone is attacking, it feels like they're attacking your sense of competence, right?
[00:20:37] And your ability to handle your life, it can feel kind of condescending in a way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So rejection sensitivity's like that, but just turned way up.
[00:20:45] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:20:46] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yes.
[00:20:46] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And, and what about those kiddos who, you know, that really lean into some perfectionism and mm-hmm. You know, avoid trying new things or really have that fear of failure so that I'm not gonna try.
[00:21:01] That's another thing that comes up a lot. It's like I can stay safe by not doing the thing, because at least then I'm not having to move through the possibility of getting it wrong or failing. What's driving that response in kiddos and how can parents understand what's happening better internally for those kids?
[00:21:19] Ann Louise Lockhart: So the thing about perfectionism is it's very. Much besties with procrastination. So many times, if you find that your teen is putting off, cleaning their room, doing their homework, doing that project, calling that friend, whatever it is, many times it's because they procrastinate. Because if I can't do it perfectly, if I can't do it without failure or fear of humiliation, embarrassment, or whatever, then I just won't do it at all.
[00:21:48] Mm-hmm. So if I can't do it perfectly, I won't do it at all because then I can't fail. But the problem is, well, not doing it, you fail anyway. But yeah, but I'm failing on my terms versus yours. Right? And perfectionism is a lot about fear and it's the fear of failure, fear of disappointing others, fear of not being good enough.
[00:22:10] It's not being perfect enough and it can feel overwhelming because you have all this stuff, all these expectations on yourself that you, you think people have for you, and they might, and so freezing, they're basically freezing and not moving towards that. And so the brain is saying, if I don't ever try, then I won't ever fail.
[00:22:30] And parents can understand this better by remembering that avoidance isn't laziness, it's self protection. I am protecting myself from all the bad stuff, all the feelings that could come from it, people laughing, people judging, all those different things. So it's a way of managing really big, uncomfortable emotions.
[00:22:51] And so the way to help your teen move through this, again, is to identify that, to identify that. I noticed that you've been putting off doing your project because it probably feels really overwhelming to get it started. Am I getting that right? Uh, I, I remember feeling the same way. I used to procrastinate big time.
[00:23:10] I still do sometimes, like with taxes. 'cause like what if, oh my gosh, what if I don't do it? Right. Right. Gosh. And because it is truly overwhelming. Yes. Right? Yes, yes. Its as big of a task as your brain thinks it is.
[00:23:21] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:23:21] Ann Louise Lockhart: But, but your brain does that for other things that may not be as big of a task, but in their brain It is.
[00:23:27] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yes.
[00:23:28] Ann Louise Lockhart: So if I have this big project that's due at the end of the month, but it's a 12 page paper and I have to do all this research, that is a big project. Like, what do I do? And so really helping them identify that your, your fear failure is what's keeping you from a, attacking the thing. Your procrastination is keeping you stuck.
[00:23:47] And that makes complete sense. So let's get unstuck by chunking this out so that we can get it done. So whatever it is, if it's like 20 math problems, rather than thinking I have to do 20 math problems, now you just have to do five in the next 15 minutes. Mm-hmm. Or I have to read a hundred pages over the summer.
[00:24:06] Nope. You only have to do four pages a day every day for whatever, how many weeks, like really breaking it down so that it feels more manageable and it feels less overwhelming, and then that way you can break them out of that perfectionism. Avoidance shutdown cycle.
[00:24:24] Casey O'Roarty: Well, I, what I really appreciate that I heard you do in that example is that space of validation.
[00:24:31] Like it makes sense, right? I think some of our kids are so good at keeping themselves safe and it becomes missing. Like I hear parents, clients of mine say, well, they have no grit, they have no resilience. And it's like, well, hold on. Like they're in some pretty intense survival mode. There's actually quite a bit of resilience and sticktoitiveness that's happening.
[00:24:59] It's just happening in a direction that results in the final product not being completed. And so is there also a place here where we can identify that? And show them like, you are really good at keeping yourself safe. Let's find the tools and the strengths inside of this situation as it is. And then turn the room almost right, so that you can see that, that those same skills can actually help you chunk it up, take baby steps, move in the direction of, of getting it done.
[00:25:35] And, and is there room here too to talk about, like what is their ultimate desire and goal? Is that something that is helpful for these kids, or is that just too much and it's more like smaller steps? It can be, but the thing is
[00:25:50] Ann Louise Lockhart: because it can feel too abstract. Okay. And it can feel. For a lot of their development because you know, they're moving from concrete to abstract development.
[00:26:00] So the here and now, the concrete, the, I can touch it, I can feel it to this bigger concept like time and how much time I have left and what do I have to do and what are my goals. Those are so abstract and depending on their cognitive development, they may not be quite there yet. And so that big project can feel that big.
[00:26:18] And so when you chunk it out and you make it very. Tangible, that can be very concrete, that can feel more manageable. Okay. And that way they don't feel like it's so out of control. So like, for example, I had a client who, uh, she went to a school that they gave projects over the summer for them to be done for the, for in all subjects, like major projects.
[00:26:40] And I'm like, what's the point of a summer? I, anyway, so she, she had a DHD pretty severe. But super smart and really motivated, and her teachers loved her and they would keep extending deadlines because they loved her so much. They knew she could get it done, but they kept extending, extending and extending.
[00:27:00] And then she got to the point because she was very focused on perfection being, being perfect. She just would never get it done. And so I'm like, okay, here's the deal. You are four weeks into the new school year and the project was due four weeks ago. Mm-hmm. Can we just decide to just get it done? That it's just done is good enough.
[00:27:18] It doesn't have to be perfect. And she's like, oh, like it was a light bulb for her because she kept thinking. Well, it needs to be perfect because that's what everybody expects of me, that I'm, I'm such a great student. But then she also felt embarrassed because it's now four weeks. It better be perfect because you've had extra four weeks.
[00:27:37] And I'm like, Nope. Let's just get that off the table. Erase that thought and just say, you know what? It just needs to get done. Because if it's not done, then it's not perfect. Mm-hmm. So let's just get it done. Let it be just good enough. Draw that sucker, get it done, turn it in.
[00:27:51] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:27:52] Ann Louise Lockhart: And that was really a light bulb moment for her to realize that I don't need to have it perfect at this point.
[00:27:56] It just needs to be done.
[00:27:57] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, and, and there's a couple things in that story. One is like the privilege of being likable. Yeah. Right. Like our kids that tend to not be on that end of the spectrum and maybe are tougher and mm-hmm. You know, how difficult it is for teachers and the adults to, you know, offer a little bit extra space to them.
[00:28:19] So that came to mind. But also, you know, those kids that really are stuck in, no, I can't do it. Mm-hmm. I can't do it. How do we gently nudge them towards. Accepting that good enough is good enough.
[00:28:34] Ann Louise Lockhart: So that's tough because they are. As parents, we want to rescue and fix and jump in and make it less painful for them.
[00:28:45] 'cause we don't wanna see our kids suffer. But really the best thing in those moments when you have a stuck kid who doesn't think anything will work and, oh, whatever, use my mom, you're supposed to say that. Mm-hmm. That we take this steady, nonjudgmental, really firm stance and be present with them and. It might mean saying, you know, I know this feels very heavy for you.
[00:29:10] I know this is really overwhelming. I get it. I was in the same place that you were at your age. I'm here whenever you're ready. How can I support you? What do we need to do to move through it? But really being that firm presence for them, because sometimes it's just a matter of just staying present with them, letting them feel a little stuck, but knowing that you're there with them.
[00:29:31] Mm-hmm. And then brainstorming with them that this continues to be an issue that comes up for you a lot. So what do you think is getting in the way of that? Let's, let's talk about it. Is it that you need a tutor? Is it that you need someone to help you? Is that you need a study group? You need a body double someone who can come alongside you.
[00:29:48] You need to change how much you're involved. Maybe you're too many extracurricular. Maybe your classes are too hard. And so being able to just do it with them side by side and really helping them through it so that the hard doesn't feel so hard, and then easing up a little bit. I, I, I tell parents a lot in my parent coaching that sometimes when you come in, you don't have to get a new strategy, like do less.
[00:30:12] Mm-hmm. Just do less and just be present. Especially with teenagers. Just be present with them just. Text back and forth, watch a game that they enjoy, watch the binge, watch a favorite show of theirs, go for a walk, have a donut together. Like do something where they feel supported without the pressure and they don't feel like they have to perform in order to be accepted by you.
[00:30:34] Yeah.
[00:30:35] Casey O'Roarty: But yeah,
[00:30:35] Ann Louise Lockhart: it's hard Maybe that this class is just a very hard class and maybe you're not gonna do very well right now. And that's okay. My kids tell me they're 13 and 15, and when they bring home a bad grade and we talk about it, and I look and I talk to them about like, you know, uh, what do you think got in the way of you doing better than what you hoped to have gotten?
[00:30:55] They're like, well, I don't know. Maybe the test was too hard or they'd studied the wrong material or. They still didn't get it. Whatever it's, and I'm like, okay, well now you know for next time and then you can just change your approach. And they've told me consistently that they really appreciate that. I don't freak out over bad grades because so many of their friends get privileges lost, phone taken away, and they're like, and it doesn't even really help them.
[00:31:18] I'm like, well, of course it doesn't because. That's not the solution. Yeah. The solution might be because they're overwhelmed or they're perfectionistic, or because they have a DHD, or it's just hard, you know? And mm-hmm. I'm like, yeah, like that doesn't make sense to freak out over a bad grade, like what's.
[00:31:31] I was a terrible high school student, and I think I'm doing pretty well, so I think you're doing pretty well. Yeah. So, you know, I, I started thriving when I got to college. Yeah. College was my gem. I loved college and I'm like, it was the way high school was taught. Just did not gel with my learning style.
[00:31:47] Yeah. And once I got to college, I excelled, and then I'm like, Ooh, I need to keep doing this. So I did got a bachelor's, two master's, a doctor. Like I just loved learning because I found, I found the way of learning. Mm-hmm. And so I'm like, sometimes maybe this isn't your thing. Maybe college will be, or maybe a, a professional school or a mentorship or just on the job training.
[00:32:09] Yeah. But maybe this particular subject is not for you and that's okay too. But I do want you to try your best.
[00:32:16] Casey O'Roarty: That reminds me, so my sweet son thought it would be a really good idea to sign up for calculus over the summer online. I know. I was like, what? I didn't say it, but I was thinking, what were you thinking?
[00:32:30] Half idea. And it was so hard and he like half the little summer semester, didn't even realize there was a whole page on the website of like resources and he. Had these massive, and I've talked about it, sorry, listeners, if you heard me talk about this over the summer, massive meltdowns, like back to being four, you know, and I remember finally I said, you know what, Ian, maybe the gift of this class is not passing.
[00:32:59] Maybe the gift of this class is figuring out how to be in such deep discouragement and frustration without. Tearing apart your notebook or you know, having these really big explosive experiences, but instead learning how to be in the discouragement while also maintaining this idea, this possibility that everything's figureoutable.
[00:33:24] Thank you Marie Forleo for that word. Everything's figureoutable. So, okay, I'm deeply frustrated. What am I gonna do about it? Right. Feel it, be with it and, and that, you know, man, he, man, he passed that class by the skin of his teeth. Good for him. Like we got the text in the family group chat and he was like, I passed the goddamn class.
[00:33:45] Like it was so funny. But you know, there's a lot of learning and growth that happens through the academic experience that has nothing to do with grades. And I love, um, Ross Green says, you know, the difference between, oh, they won't do it, so let's punish them and get them motivated to do it, versus they can't, something's getting in the way, and I'm, as you do too, encourage our people like it, sit in the, sit in the possibility that it, something's getting in the way versus.
[00:34:16] You know, it's just defiance or they just don't care because that's a really short road that isn't very helpful. And I also love. You know, you use the word firmness and you use the word presence, and I feel like it's such a lovely reframe to remember that showing up and being there and reminding them, I see you, I believe in you through word or energy or whatever like that actually is this beautiful.
[00:34:46] That's firmness as well.
[00:34:48] Ann Louise Lockhart: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:50] Casey O'Roarty: And it is not the model that we had. Yeah. It's not the model that we had. So it's so hard for parents to like shake that old idea off and to be like, oh, right. Showing up and continuing to, to say like, you know, baby steps, you've got this. Let's go get a smoothie. Let's keep, you know, but it's this, that gentle like moving you up, like I'm here.
[00:35:14] Is firmness.
[00:35:16] Ann Louise Lockhart: And a lot of parents, like you mentioned, didn't get that from their own parents. So this is brand new skillset for so many of us. So it feels weak. It feels soft, it feels like you're a sucker. Like it, it doesn't, it feels like you're not being a. And so that's why people will often go to, oh, well I have to be harsh and I have to be, you know, beat 'em down that way, then they can get stronger.
[00:35:39] I'm like, Hmm, that doesn't really work. Well, it didn't work for you. Like you think you turned out fine. You really didn't turn out fine. Yeah, you're kind of bitter. Right? Exactly.
[00:35:57] Casey O'Roarty: So going back to the, so perfection and rejection sensitivity, are they kind of, how are they related and are they related?
[00:36:06] Ann Louise Lockhart: Well, you know, that's a good question because I think it could be very much related because if I can't show up perfectly without flaw. Then there's something wrong with me.
[00:36:20] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:21] Ann Louise Lockhart: Or this person is telling me this thing, like reminding me of my homework or locking the door or whatever doing my assignment.
[00:36:29] Because I'm not showing up perfectly, so now I feel like a, a, you know, a loser. So I believe that they Yeah, definitely could be related because it's, it's having this idea that in order to be acceptable, that you have to be without flaw, and that's not really realistic. Right. And so if I show up flawless, then I won't ever have to be corrected.
[00:36:51] Casey O'Roarty: Right, right, right. And I don't have to. Be in that tolerance window of the feedback that I feel like I don't wanna get or I'm afraid to get. Mm-hmm. Or will feel bad. Right?
[00:37:01] Ann Louise Lockhart: Right. Because if I'm a perfect teen, if a perfect child, then I won't ever get negative feedback. Right. 'cause I would be the best child ever and I would be this easy kid.
[00:37:12] And then therefore I don't have to worry about it. So yeah, I believe that it could be definitely related one to another because then it probably in their mind it's like, well, because I'm getting this correction because I'm not a perfect person.
[00:37:22] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. So what do you think Link? So if we're talking about language and communication and.
[00:37:28] We've got this kiddo that's kind of in that dance of avoiding either avoiding those feelings of rejection and failure, or experiencing them and, and shutting down or acting out because of them. What are some ways that we can validate their experience without further fueling mm-hmm. Where, you know, that misinterpretation.
[00:37:52] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yeah. That is a hard one. Yeah. But the big thing that's it starts with first is not your teen, it's, it's you as a parent. Because many times when they get all butt hurt because you have corrected them or given them feedback, what it often does is that it triggers your nervous system because you said they, now, they're acting like a 4-year-old.
[00:38:16] Like they've just regressed. And now you feel like, who in the world is this? What is wrong with you? Why are we having this kind of bad day? You just woke up like you are getting all riled up. Oh yeah. And so it's really easy then to lash back out. And so now they're dysregulated, which triggers your dysregulation.
[00:38:34] And now you're both not having a good time. Yeah. So. The big thing I believe in those moments is to really say to yourself, okay, this attitude, this reaction is really, it's kind of triggering me right now. Mm-hmm. So you take a few deep breaths. My husband and I go on secret rage walks when we had had enough of our kids.
[00:38:56] So we'll be like, well like look at each other. And we're like, Hey, you wanna go for a walk? Sure. And it's our rage walk. Like we'll go and we'll like complain about him and talk about him. And like, I want another thing. And then we'll just say all these, and then after 30 minutes we come home and we're like.
[00:39:07] Completely new people.
[00:39:08] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:39:08] Ann Louise Lockhart: Because we're regulating ourselves and we're not, rather than lashing out on them, we're just venting to each other. Mm-hmm. And being able to get that. So, but that's a way to regulate your nervous system. So it really starts with that. So your teen is freaking out. They're having a moment.
[00:39:25] Then you need to regulate yourself or your needs being met. Did you eat, drink, water, rest? Go on a date with your spouse or your partner. Have time with your friend. Uh, watch your favorite show. Are you feeding your cup? And are you filled as well? Because when your needs are met, then you will be more likely to deal better, more positively with this toddler acting teenager in that moment and this rejection sensitivity and this.
[00:39:53] This idea of how they're behaving. So it starts with the regulation of the parents. Yeah. And not to beat yourself up, but to make sure that you are being taken care of first. Mm-hmm. And then you can go in with your teen and saying, Hey, I noticed I see that you're really disappointed about your grade.
[00:40:08] That makes complete sense. Thanks for sharing this with me. I know that it's hard to feel this way. Believe me that we will get through this together. I'm here to support you. So you validate, you empathize, you join with them. I talk in, in my book about mirroring and energy matching. So really mirroring what you see.
[00:40:26] Mirroring, uh, just reflecting back, I see that you're feeling frustrated. You are throwing your backpack on the floor and your fists are tightly clenched and you're grinding your teeth. I can see that. And then matching that energy, but bringing it down a few notches. Mm-hmm. Just, you know, I notice I, I can feel the energy from you.
[00:40:43] I can feel how angry you are at your teacher from how they graded you unfairly. That makes complete sense to me. So it really goes into balancing yourself out and then. Than being with them, helping them feel understood. 'cause I'm sure you can agree. Many teenagers complain the most about their parents because they don't feel understood by them.
[00:41:04] You don't get it. You don't understand. Right? And so mirroring and energy matching really helps 'em to feel understood so that way they don't have to turn the dial up and get out of control because they know that you get them even if you don't fully understand. But you get it. You get why they would feel the way they feel.
[00:41:19] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Do you find that parents want to spend less time there and move on? Yeah, absolutely. It's uncomfortable
[00:41:29] Ann Louise Lockhart: the be arena. It's very uncomfortable. Yeah. Because we don't want, we don't wanna see our kids in pain or suffering, or it takes energy or that's the last thing we wanna deal with. 'cause we had a long day too.
[00:41:40] Yeah. And you know, and so yeah, it just like, oh my gosh, really? Really? This again? Mm-hmm. So yeah, A lot of parents, they wanna fast track through it. They want the quick hack and they want them to get over it real quick. It's not a big deal. So what? Your friend dumped you, so what They ghosted you, it's not a big deal.
[00:41:56] They don't, you know, they're bad friends anyway. Like you wanna fast track them through the problem when, like you said earlier, it's taking calculus in the summer and learning frustration tolerance. Like it could maybe be a lesson that you're learning in the midst of the struggle, and maybe that's the lesson that you're learning.
[00:42:14] You're learning how to persevere, you're learning how to bounce back. You're learning how to get stronger when things don't
[00:42:20] Casey O'Roarty: go your way. Yeah. And by the way, I did not say that listeners, I did not say that to him in the midst of his meltdown outside. No, no, no, no, no. Was outside of the experience. Yes. But I said, you know, I wonder.
[00:42:32] Yeah. And, and you know, so we're there with them. We're listening. We're working towards understanding, mirroring. I love that energy matching. And we've spent the time to do that. We can feel kind of that settling right. And I think that's when we know, okay, now we're gonna, let's pivot like internally. Okay.
[00:42:53] I feel good. It feels like the nervous systems have calmed down. And then if one of the things that we wanna do is kind of broaden their perspective around the challenge, around their own beliefs about themselves, so that they can see like, oh, this is, this is like one stop on the road towards growth.
[00:43:14] Mm-hmm. Or this is a small piece of something bigger. What are, what are your suggestions on how to, how to do that?
[00:43:23] Ann Louise Lockhart: So we, depending on their personality, where they're at, making sure you're not doing it in the heat of the moment. Just even asking that you, you know, what you went through, that was a big challenge and you've come out on the other side.
[00:43:38] So what are your thoughts about what you just went through? What are your thoughts on reflection? Taking a class like calculus in the middle of the summer online? Mm-hmm. You know, do you feel like that's something you would do? Again, if you knew what hap what would've happened, would you make that same choice again or.
[00:43:54] You weren't able to get the assignment done on time and uh, what do you think you could have done differently for next time? Mm-hmm. And what have you learned from the experience? So make it kind of a self-reflection because what I often find is a lot of teenagers, 'cause I hear from parents that say things like, well, I ask them these things, and they're like, well, I don't know.
[00:44:13] Mm-hmm. And. Yeah, they often don't know because often we're answering the question for them or telling them what they should be feeling and thinking or doing it for them, or rescuing or fixing, so they don't get a chance to develop critical thinking skills and problem solving skills. And they need to develop those things.
[00:44:31] They need to be able to understand you're in a group of people and they're talking bad about you, or your coach is saying something inappropriate. What do you do? Like you don't just go to your parent and tell them and let them fix it. You also have to figure out. What do I do? What are my options here?
[00:44:47] And so it's, it's really about guiding them through these pro this process so they can learn these higher order re rational thinking and reasoning to figure out, okay, this is the problem. This feels hard, but I can do the hard. So then what do I do as a result of this? And now do I bring in my parent or caregiver to help support me?
[00:45:06] Or can I do this on my own? Can I bring in a peer or can I do this on my own? Mm-hmm. So it's really a process.
[00:45:11] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And all of those questions, I think are that inner voice that we get to be in contribution, helping them to develop. So I, I just made a little note as you were talking, that self-reflection, that prompting of self-reflection is for them.
[00:45:30] Not for us. So even if the answer is, I don't know, we get to say, okay, well, you know, sit with that question. And that's, you know, something that I find myself saying a lot with clients too, is. Reminding them, oh, it's not about the answer that they give you. It's about planting that seed that this is a useful question to ask yourself.
[00:45:52] Mm-hmm. Right. Exactly. You know, and the more that they hear that and that are, they're in the practice of being in that conversation with those kinds of questions, the more embedded they become in their own experience. So yeah, when they are. Out in the world and not with us, and something goes down, it can be like, oh, well that didn't go the way that I wanted it.
[00:46:11] Mm-hmm. To go, what might I, what got in the way? Or, you know, we want, ultimately that's the goal is. I want my kids to think about what got in the way even, almost even more than I want them to get rid of what got in the way, right? So Right.
[00:46:26] Ann Louise Lockhart: And to figure out what are my choices now? Yeah, this got in the way this happened, or I made this wrong choice, or this poor choice, or this choice that didn't work out like I expected.
[00:46:34] And rather than shame myself and beat myself up, I can say, okay, now this is what has happened. Now what. Not what I do with it.
[00:46:41] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, I love that. I love that. And you know, one of the skills that shows up every time I do, you know, one of our activities that we do in positive discipline is we make a list of challenges and then we make a list of life skills.
[00:46:53] We hope our kids learn to develop by the time they're, you know, in their late twenties. And personal responsibility always shows up respect and personal responsibility. It's like there's this idea that they're big and tall and they should have mastered this by now. They're 15 years old. Why aren't they taking personal responsibility every time?
[00:47:12] And for kids, especially for all kids, but especially those kids that perhaps have developed this belief that they're not good enough or their failures or their losers over time. You know, the idea of taking personal responsibility for that can feel so painful and threatening. How can parents guide their teens towards.
[00:47:36] Accountability and not, I mean, I wanna say, do they need to? I mean, I think yes, we want them to develop that over time. What does that look like with kids who have these beliefs that I'm a failure and now I have to take all the responsibility for that? You know, like that's heavy. Mm-hmm.
[00:47:55] Ann Louise Lockhart: It is heavy. Well, one way is to frame accountability as empowerment.
[00:48:00] That you're taking personal res responsibility because that's part of accountability, because that's empowering. That's something that you have control over. So instead of, well, you didn't pay your bills or you didn't do your homework, again, it, it's more of like, well, what's one thing you can do differently next time, like we talked about earlier?
[00:48:18] Or it's, it's shifting blame and shame to curiosity. 'cause too many adults have this blame shame cycle. It's this narrative that they've internalized from their own childhood. So it's really about shifting. Yeah, so like this happened. Okay, so rather than blame and shame, being curious, okay, well what prevented me?
[00:48:37] Like, I remember when I was in college, my senior year, and we thought that we were supposed to file our taxes e even though we, we barely worked. We, we barely made any money, but we thought, well, well, we're 21. We're supposed to file taxes now. And so we stayed up till midnight on April 15th thinking, oh my gosh, we're gonna go to jail to borrow.
[00:48:53] We're gonna go to jail. We're gonna jail. And so. And then, so then we got it done, and then we were talking to like our accounting major friends, and they're like, dudes, you don't have to do that. What's wrong with you? You just babysat a couple hours. Like, but, and so then we, okay, well now I understood. Yeah.
[00:49:10] So rather than trying to beat ourselves up, we can just say, well, we wanted to be, we thought we were adulting that this is, this is what you're supposed to do when you're a grownup, right? Mm-hmm. And now we took responsibility. Now we need to find out when are you supposed to actually start filing taxes, for example.
[00:49:25] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's this kind of stuff that we can teach. Our emerging adults that to help them understand, to take responsibility for things, not to beat themselves up, but to be curious about why they made these mistakes, or if it's a recurring mistake, why do you keep making the same mistake?
[00:49:42] Mm-hmm. What is preventing you from getting unstuck from this? Mm-hmm. And it's really, you're showing them. They do have choices. They do have control without layering on the guilt so that you could just be curious with them and help them move through it because it's so easy to beat them up and it's so easy for them to beat themselves up and we don't wanna add more to that.
[00:50:01] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about your book. I wanna give you a chance to really sell it. Tell us about it. It's available for pre-order when the show is coming out, so make sure you all get your hands on it. Tell us about it.
[00:50:15] Ann Louise Lockhart: So this book really was inspired by my own struggles with my mom when I was a teenager.
[00:50:22] And because I did not feel understood by her, I felt like I was going through a time in my life where I was going through a lot of painful things and she couldn't handle it. Hmm. And because I didn't feel like she cared about the things that mattered, I was like, screw you, then just kind of in this rebellious phase, and it wasn't an active thing.
[00:50:43] It wasn't a very conscious thing, but I became very defiant and rebellious for a big part of my teenage years because of that. And. Throughout as I was growing up and getting older and then my 20 years of experience as a pediatric psychologist and parent coach, I, I saw that same kind of pattern emerging in the teenagers.
[00:51:02] I saw the parent coaching, parent coaching clients I saw, and really seeing how parents and teens were disconnected because, and having lots of conflict because of him being misunderstood. Teens feeling that their parents don't understand them. Parents feeling that their teen doesn't understand them, and I really, some, as someone who felt very disconnected from my own mom, I didn't want parents and teens to go through that again.
[00:51:25] I really wanted to change things so that they don't, they didn't go through the same uh, experience. And I wanted a resource for parents where they could use this for a variety of issues. Whether their kid had, their teen has A DHD or anxiety, or they're having body image issues, or depression or suicidal thinking, or sibling conflict, bullying, just the whole range of issues, identity issues, all of these things.
[00:51:49] It is their resource that they can go to. And just earlier today, one of the parents who. Got a early copy to do a review for me. She said her 12, she saw her 12-year-old reading it, and she says, is it okay if she submits a review for your book? And I was like, well, yeah. And she says, yeah, I was learning things in it.
[00:52:07] I'm like, did you know? And so she was learning all these things from the book and she felt like it was a good resource for her to understand herself and how her mom sees her as well. Hmm. So I'm like, that's That's high praise. That is high praise. Hi. From a 12-year-old. That's amazing. Yeah, so that was just whole, my whole why and when I shared it with my mom and I shared certain chapters with her, she's like, I wish I had this book when I was parenting you.
[00:52:30] And I'm like, I think I'm flattered. I I I don't think I'm insulted.
[00:52:33] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:52:34] Ann Louise Lockhart: I'm very flattered because it's like, yeah. She's like, we didn't know what we were doing back then. We were just kind of doing our best and I know she was doing our best. Yeah. And we have repaired our relationship since. Yeah. But this is the resource I wanted parents to have and it's really all my years of experience just putting everything together and things that I've learned, experienced and walked parents and teens through.
[00:52:53] Casey O'Roarty: Ah, beautiful. And isn't it such a gift to have had a tough time, especially with your mom and then repair, like I feel like I'm so grateful for the relationship that I had with my mom and we had some pretty solid years of almost estrangement as I Yep. Like grew into the young adult that I was, and it's.
[00:53:14] I wouldn't change any of it for what we have today, it's such a gift. Beautiful. It is a
[00:53:19] Ann Louise Lockhart: gift. It is a gift, and I want parents to realize that it's never too late. And so, you know, even if there's estrangement, even if there's a detachment, even if they're, whatever it is, that it's, it's never too late. Even adults want to repair with their, their parents as well too.
[00:53:33] So I definitely want people to embrace that, to know that yeah, it's your teen isn't too far gone.
[00:53:39] Casey O'Roarty: Ah, love it. Love that message. What does joyful courage mean to you today?
[00:53:44] Ann Louise Lockhart: So to me, joyful courage is the willingness to lean in to the hard and messy parts of parenting with, uh, hope and joy and love and patience and presence.
[00:54:00] And it's having the courage to face conflict and big emotions.
[00:54:05] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:06] Ann Louise Lockhart: But choosing joy in the connection that you're building. Just the, the contentment in the relationship, even when it's imperfect.
[00:54:13] Casey O'Roarty: I love it. Beautiful. Thank you. Where can people find you and follow your work and find your.
[00:54:19] Ann Louise Lockhart: Yes, so they can find me.
[00:54:21] I'm very active on Instagram at Doctor dot Ann Louise Lockhart. I really enjoy that platform a lot. So I'm there and I, I, they can find me at dr ann louise lockhart.com and there's a link on the the landing page to pre-order my book. And there's also a special pre-order bonus. It's a seven day connection reboot.
[00:54:43] So if you order the book. And you can upload your receipt and you can get a downloaded copy of the the seven Day Connection reboot for parents and teens. So that's probably the best places to reach me.
[00:54:54] Casey O'Roarty: Yay. Well, and everyone definitely, if you're on social media, follow Dr. Lockhart on Instagram. 'cause her Instagram game is really entertaining.
[00:55:02] She's cute. Um, I love it. I've been following you for years and it's so fun. You're, you have so much fun. It just seems like you have so much fun with it, which is what I love. I'm
[00:55:10] Ann Louise Lockhart: doing it. Yes, yes. What it, I think it really, it really goes into my. My desire to perform and edit and to be creative. I was always like that as a kid.
[00:55:20] So it's just, it's just, I love it. Yeah. It's just so much fun.
[00:55:23] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, it's fun times. Well, thank you so much. All the thank you links will be in the show notes. Listeners, thank you so much for being here and hanging out with me yet again. It was really fun. Thank you for having me,
[00:55:35] Ann Louise Lockhart: Casey.
[00:55:41] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at. Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:56:09] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids. Of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.