Eps 628: Interrupting parenting patterns with Marielle Melling

“To me, joyful courage really is having the willingness to be honest with yourself, to be willing to say, what are my butts? Is that really true? And if not, how can I be courageous enough to do something about it, to shift the way that I’m living and to really have that courage to live fully. Not like you’re doing everything, but that you’re experiencing everything fully and paying attention to that experience and then finding the joy in that, because this type of growth and this type of acceptance and this type of… it’s a really compassionate way of living and that brings deep joy.”

— Marielle Melling

Books by Marielle Melling:

• The BUT Book (available on Amazon and wherever books are sold)
• Peace Amidst the Mayhem

The Mom Spot Membership – Marielle’s membership program for ongoing parent support

Annual Parenting Summit – Marielle hosts a summit each spring (though she notes it’s “always up in the air” whether it happens each year)

Connect with Marielle:

• Website: yourEFR.com (Your Extraordinary Family Relationships)
• Instagram: @extraordinary_relationships

Other Experts Referenced:

• Tina Payne Bryson and Dan Siegel – “Name it to tame it” concept for emotional regulation

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement. In the messy terrain of adolescents, this season of parenting is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth. And man, the opportunities abound, right? My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline, lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years. And continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:24] Hey listeners, welcome back to the podcast. I am so glad that you're here. I'm really excited about this conversation because I feel like we're on a collective experience and we all have parenting moments that we're not so proud of. The ones where. Maybe we snap at our teen over something small or have found yourself lecturing when you promised you'd listen or laid down a consequence that felt more like revenge than guidance.
[00:01:52] I remember in the summertime thinking, oh God, the windows are open. What are my neighbors thinking when I kind of lost it on my kids? We know better and we keep finding ourselves in this behavior that we know isn't useful. So we're gonna dig into this today with my guest, Marielle Melling. During a crazy season of life, Marielle found peace by radically prioritizing deep relationships.
[00:02:17] Now she helps parents get on the same page as their kids, so they exchanged. Closed doors and battles for closeness and cooperation, and everyone wins. Marielle uses her degree in health education, genuine care, and relatable teaching style to transform family relationships from ordinary to extraordinary.
[00:02:37] She's the founder of Extraordinary Family Relationships and the Mom Spot membership and the Author of Peace amidst the Mayhem and the Butt book. That's BUT, not BUTT. As a mom of five and her own best Guinea pig, Marielle is committed to lifelong learning and doing life on purpose. In the depths of pain and her writing seeks to connect us all in this human experience.
[00:03:05] Hi Marielle, welcome to the podcast.
[00:03:07] Marielle Melling: Hello. Hello and thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah,
[00:03:10] Casey O'Roarty: me too. We have met before and I was a guest. In a summit that you put on each year, are you still doing that summit in the spring? I have been. It's always up in the air, whether it happens next year.
[00:03:22] Yeah, I feel that. Yeah. Well, I'm really excited to have you on my show, and like I mentioned today, we're talking about the kind of invisible forces that drive our least favorite parenting moments and how to interrupt them. But first, can you share a little bit about your journey into doing what you do into working with parents?
[00:03:43] Marielle Melling: Yeah, absolutely. You shared the, the really short version there already. Uh, so just a little more details was a pretty crazy time of my life. We had five little kids. My husband was working insane hours for our home. Yeah. Well, hard stop
[00:03:59] Casey O'Roarty: right there. You had five little kids, period. Yes.
[00:04:02] Marielle Melling: Yes. And I'll say.
[00:04:03] Hard stuff started when we had three little kids. So this is like years compounded into a couple sentences, right? But the point of the story is that it was crazy and from the outside it was especially crazy. I had four part-time jobs, the home, the kids, uh, and then some big life challenge things. However, I at one point recognized that through all of these challenges and through the way that I was raised and all of these things kind of came together.
[00:04:30] For this perfect storm in the right way. And I realized like I love my life and I have so much peace right now with being a parent and with the way things are going. And in that same breath, I recognized that that wasn't just for me. And it was something that I wanted to share, that I wanted other parents to experience this as well.
[00:04:53] That things don't have to be perfect in order for us to perfectly love our lives. And so that was the start of what I do. And. That was lots of years ago. So we've, we've done a lot in between, but that's, that's where it all comes from. And the same, the motivation for what I do.
[00:05:10] Casey O'Roarty: I love thinking about, 'cause I talk about being empowered to influence how we're experiencing our experiences.
[00:05:20] Yes. And you know, my listeners know I've been through a ton with my daughter, my husband's health, the last five years have been super. Wild. And I just shot off a text this morning to my good friend and said, Hey, you just popped into my mind as I was doing my soul work. I'm just so grateful for today and for all the days even inside of things that are super uncertain and really scary.
[00:05:48] And so I kind of feel that message in what you were just sharing around, you know, the external. Can look all sorts of different ways and we can still be paying attention to how we're experiencing it. Yes. I just love that. Yeah. So you wrote a book. Tell us about the butt book. What the heck is ly book?
[00:06:10] Marielle Melling: What is the but book? It's not about butt, although my house is a lot of, but jokes and it's, it's fun. We go there for sure. So the, the impetus behind the book, it came from two things. One, when I was growing up, my mom always said. But means bottom underlying truth. And she encouraged us to just be thoughtful about the way we used, but Right.
[00:06:31] Like if you say I love you, but you're really annoying me, the message that you're really sending is the most important thing right now is that you're annoying me, right? It, it really kind of negates what comes before it. And so I grew up with that thought, with that little post-it on my fridge. And then I got old and I had kids and I started doing this work and I.
[00:06:54] I started to realize that there's this real gap between what we know and what we do, right? Mm-hmm. So I might know, I'm not supposed to lecture my kids. I might know I wanna eat healthier, I might know all of these things, and yet I don't do them right? And so that was kind of my goal, really big questions with the butt book was like, how do I actually.
[00:07:15] Do these things that I wanna do because when it got down to it, I recognized, I started thinking about, but in not just the way I use it in my vernacular, but it is my bottom underlying truth. These are the things that are most important to me, and how do I actually live those out? And so the book became in, in research and in learning, trying to figure out and then present, this is how we actually do what we care about doing.
[00:07:42] And so some big questions. But it became a simple way to bring it all together is around these butts, uh, is what do, what am I showing right now matters to me, and is that really what matters to me? And if it is, I'm going for it. And if not, how do I course correct in that moment so that I'm living really aligned with what actually matters?
[00:08:02] Because that is where health comes from. That's where happiness comes from, where bad peace comes from. Mm-hmm. Just like we were saying, no matter what's going on, it's these things that are happening inside of us that are really going to. Tell the story of the experience that we have in life.
[00:08:18] Casey O'Roarty: I mean, that's no small thing what you're talking about.
[00:08:20] No, this is really profound and I loved that that question of, I'm gonna use my own words, but creating, like having enough self-awareness to question what am I making important right now? Yes. And is that the most important thing right now? Yeah, I think that is so. Powerful. When we consider the season of adolescence and the layers of our experience that come with it, the conditioning of our own, how we were parented, the cultural messaging that's happening, the our stupid attachment to what other people think.
[00:09:01] Mm-hmm. The fear of every story that you've ever heard of. Worst case scenario, right? Will they make it out alive? Literally, right. And so to recognize when we're letting those things drive us and have enough wherewithal to pause and to be in the question of is this, first of all, is this even real? Right?
[00:09:25] And second of all, is this what I want to be driving us? I think it's so powerful. Truly, truly, truly. It's such a powerful practice.
[00:09:33] Marielle Melling: Yeah. And the ability to do that requires self-compassion.
[00:09:38] Casey O'Roarty: Mm.
[00:09:39] Marielle Melling: It requires us being able to say, look, I tell this little story. It's so simple. But back in that stage with all those little kids, I think we remember that.
[00:09:47] And so metaphorically, think about that for where you are right now. And I found myself. On the kitchen floor scrubbing up gunk. The kids were supposed to be in bed, but I could hear them upstairs running around the, I was thinking about my day and it felt like one of those days where I had accomplished nothing.
[00:10:04] Mm-hmm. And in that moment, I kind of also thought about a friend who was on a very different life path and was enjoying some worldly success and in ways that were very tangible. And as I'm thinking, I all of a sudden start crying here on my kitchen floor. And the question came to me that I think was divinely inspired, but it was, what do you care about right now?
[00:10:27] Mm-hmm. And in that moment, I got super honest with myself and I thought, you know what I care about. Being praised. I want somebody to pat me on the back and say, you are doing a great job. Like it might not look like it, but your work matters. All those kinds of things. I wanted that validation.
[00:10:45] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:46] Marielle Melling: And you know, I think about this experience and I go, who did I expect was gonna do that for?
[00:10:50] Right. Right. Yeah. Like that's kind of silly to, to really want that, or maybe even silly to care about that. Like I should know parenting is the most important thing, right? Like all these things, but because I was willing to really be honest with myself and have compassion, I could go, yeah, that is what I care about right now.
[00:11:06] And then I got to ask myself that. But question, which again, was divinely inspired, I believe, because the question was, but what do you care about more? And that's the reality in our lives is we will care about all kinds of things. We will have fears, we will have natural reactions that are from the way that we were raised or what we're experiencing in the moment, but we also get to choose what do I care about more?
[00:11:30] And in that moment, I got to decide, you know what? I do care more than getting that praise, even though I want that in the moment. I care more. About helping my kids through some tough emotional things that happened that day and about scrubbing this stupid floor, not because I care about the floor being clean, but because my husband was working so hard and that was a simple service that I could do for him to come home to a clean house.
[00:11:52] Like he recognized that as a service and it was something that I could do and I wanted to do for him, and I could care about the kids upstairs that, hey, they were having a great time together and bonding as siblings, and all of a sudden these other things that I care about more. Transformed that whole experience and that whole moment and what I saw in my life and what mattered and allowed me to make an intentional, yeah, I am gonna scrub this floor, I'm, and I'm darn well gonna like it, right?
[00:12:16] Because I want to like it, not because it's something I have to do, but it shifted everything for me. It shifted the whole experience. And also gave me the freedom to step into life in a way that I wanted to, rather than the things that we should do or have to do, or I'm just forcing to try and get myself to do it.
[00:12:34] All those kinds of things. But. That is only possible if you're willing to be honest and have self-compassion, because sometimes those things that we dig up are not, are not flattering. Mm-hmm. Right. Or not pretty or not easy.
[00:12:46] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. And it makes me think about too, just culturally how. Reliant, we've become on external validation as well.
[00:12:57] And you said something about self-compassion and in those moments, you know, kind of love laughing, hopefully laughing at ourselves like, well, who's gonna tell me I'm doing a great job? Who's gonna, that same person that's with you at your first breath and your last breath. So develop that inner voice, develop that outside observer, develop that ability to say, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:13:19] Look at what you're doing right now for your family. Look at the way that you're leaning into, you know, self-awareness. And that's something I know for me in my practice when I'm flailing at creating what I want, being intentional about creating the energy that I want, or when I'm really stuck in resentment or mood or whatever.
[00:13:41] You know, one thing, if it's o, if it's the only thing I can give myself, I can say, well, at least I'm aware of where I'm at right now. Mm-hmm. At least I'm aware that I am committed to resentment in this moment. Right. Like, I think that there's, it's so hard. I'm aware of my own
[00:13:58] Marielle Melling: pity party
[00:13:58] Casey O'Roarty: or whatever. Yeah.
[00:13:59] And even then we get a little bit of space from it, and then there's more of a choice. There's more of a choice point. There's more space to hear from. Higher power or higher self or you know, whatever for the listener fits that bigger picture, voice or presence. You know, that's when it becomes available is when we can slow down and at least first step recognize, okay, where am I right now?
[00:14:27] Yes. Right. So I really appreciate that. And when we ignore the but, or we just try to push through and, and we kinda stay in autopilot mode, what tends to happen? You know, what do you see? What did you see in your own experience, you know, what do you see with clients? What is the risk of staying in autopilot?
[00:14:47] Marielle Melling: Yeah. So this is anytime you find yourself like repeating a behavior and you're like, why am I doing this right? Or why am I reacting this way when I, I know. At at one level that this isn't the way I wanna treat my teen, right? Or I don't wanna care about this thing so much. Or anytime you have that like, ugh, why question?
[00:15:07] I like to go and say, okay, what is, what is the, what is this behavior showing me about myself? Right? What does it show that I'm caring about? And do I really care about that? Mm-hmm. And if I don't do that, what happens is we have these underlying, whether they're automatic behaviors or unconscious beliefs, we have things that are happening.
[00:15:27] And our behavior is always needs based. So we know this when we're thinking about our children, right. We're, we're, I think, beautifully learning to understand from our kids that their behavior is a means of communication. Mm-hmm. And so we are hopefully listeners ask ourselves. Yeah, listeners. Right. I'll say that this is a good review if not, or, or new information, but we're looking at that behavior and we're saying, okay.
[00:15:51] They're being disrespectful. What is that showing me about? Mm-hmm. Their needs right now and what is this showing me about their state of being right now? And we're getting more curious as parents, what those behaviors mean for our kids. I don't know that we necessarily do that for ourselves well enough yet.
[00:16:06] Mm-hmm. So when I. Say something that I then regret or when I am in tears or when I, whatever that thing is, what is that showing me about myself, about my own state of being? Is it that fear? Is it, you know, I want to be heard, I wanna be respected. All of those things that are very human needs. I wanna feel connected, I wanna feel valid.
[00:16:29] I, all of those things that are human, are we recognizing those for ourselves? Because if we don't, they are still working. In the underground. Mm-hmm. Right? And instead of us being able to really recognize it and now do something about it instead, it's just like this phantom confusion. Like, what, what in the world, why, why am I doing this thing?
[00:16:50] Why am I doing this thing? Um. The other thing that happens when we suppress, and whether it's an emotion or a desire, like a, a fear or anger or any of those kinds of things, when we're not tuned into what's happening to us inside, is that those, and this is really clear from the research, but our emotions when they are suppressed.
[00:17:09] Get bigger, and the longer that we ignore them, they eventually either wreck havoc or we just get totally disconnected. And then we have this whole situation where we are out of sync with our emotions and out of sync with our desires and those emotions and desires have so. Super important roles to play within our own health and wellbeing and our relationships.
[00:17:31] And so the worst case scenario is we've suppressed our emotions, we've suppressed our desires, we have suppressed our real being of who we want to be, and now we're just trying to live on this surface layer of survival in our relationships with our teens who are now also stressed and dealing with their own problems.
[00:17:50] And now we have two. Un whole people trying to figure out life, and it is super hard.
[00:17:56] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:07] I remember, so my kid, how old are your kids these days? We are ranging from seven to 17. Oh my goodness. Yep. God bless you. And you're brood. We're loving it. I think about when my kids were still at home and there was this period of time where they would ask me to do something and my shoot from the hip response was.
[00:18:31] I'm the mom, so I need to do the thing, and then I'd be doing the thing and I'd be super irritated about doing the thing, and that emotional experience would come out of me and it would show up in snippy behavior. Or you know, this whole idea of look at what I'm doing for you. You know? You know, you should be, you should be grateful.
[00:18:56] Marielle Melling: Be grateful, grateful you should be.
[00:18:57] Casey O'Roarty: And I remember my daughter saying to me, Hey, you know mom, you can say no. Like she called me out. It wasn't the most graceful call out, but she was a teenager. But it was wise. But she was like, don't be pissed at me. That you said yes to something that I asked that you could have said no to.
[00:19:15] Yeah, right. And that was such a, you know what, that's really stuck with me. And you know, it also showed, and another thing that's showing up that I'm hearing you talk about is, you know, that desire to be heard. And I don't know about you and your dynamic. Or the listener's dynamic if you have a partner.
[00:19:35] But I find myself needing to say, I just wanna share my experience. I don't need you to fix it. Yeah. Because when I don't express what I need, I share my experience and he launches into fix it or perspective taking. And again, I'm in this place of like, Ugh, God. I don't need you to fix it, and then I'm annoyed at him.
[00:19:59] And so there's so many ways that I think we set ourselves up. For this experience of either suppressing, but probably initially suppressing how we're feeling until we can't, and then we can do a lot of damage to our relationships when we're not clear about what we need. And you talk about bringing our inner world into the light, and I'm curious, like how do we, how do you support people in doing that?
[00:20:27] And, and, and does that mean like. Growing our self-awareness around what's actually happening under the surface for us, and how do we catch that, you know, what is happening, the but how do we catch the, but Exactly. Yeah. Before we get hijacked. How do you support parents with that?
[00:20:46] Marielle Melling: Yeah, so much, so much there.
[00:20:48] And the most important, like the foundational thing is I am deciding I'm always gonna start with myself, not in a selfish way, in a, that's what I control way. And so when it comes to my relationship with my teen, when it ever anything's happening. I am first pointing the thumb at me and saying, okay, what am I bringing to this situation?
[00:21:08] What are my emotions right now? What are my fears? What am I caring about? And then I'm checking in with my gut level and going, is that what I want? Is that the way I wanna show up? Is that, is that, like we talked about before, is that fear real? Is that fear valid? Is that desire based on this outside judgment of what my in-laws or what my parents or what the neighbor or what somebody else is gonna think or do?
[00:21:35] Or is this legitimately how I want to be in relationship? And so that's the, the first foundational thing is just to. Put that blanket statement out there. I'm always starting with myself. I'm checking in with myself. I'm checking in with what I care about. I'm checking out with the way I show up, and then I'm saying, am I happy with that?
[00:21:54] Is that aligned with who I really wanna be? If it's not and it's a quick fix, then we have a quick fix and we just realign and we remind ourselves. We offer that compassion. We say, you know what? I am afraid, and it's okay to feel afraid. That's very human to feel afraid. And, but the but is the bottom underlying truth is, you know, I want my, my team to know that I trust them in this situation and so I'm gonna hold myself in this fear and I'm gonna let them have this experience or whatever that, that situation might be.
[00:22:26] Right. I love that.
[00:22:27] Casey O'Roarty: I love that. And I, you know, I took a little quick note as you were talking because, you know, starting with us is such a gift to our family. Yeah. Like the whole idea of. I can't make time for myself 'cause we're too busy. I just, you know, wanna blow that statement up because it's a gift to us, but it's a gift to our family.
[00:22:50] Mm-hmm. And I want listeners to really hear that. And when we have that practice of slowing things down and turning inward, you know, I think there's this idea, and it shows up too with the idea that when we have close. Open relationships with our teens that that will somehow make it so they don't. Make any mistakes or take any risks or do anything stupid, and it's like, no, that's not doing Word, not my experience.
[00:23:19] My experience is they just tell me about it. Right? So then there's a whole nother practice of mindfulness when you hear the news. So I think reminding, I wanna just remind listeners and kind of tease out of this that when we tend to ourselves, when we recognize the only thing that we can really control is ourselves.
[00:23:40] That doesn't, it's not about like, and then we'll get the outcome that we want, or maybe it does, but not really in the way that we expect. Mm-hmm. If the outcome that we want is like thoughtfulness and connection and sending the message that the person in front of us matters to us, that their experience is real, if that's what we want, then yes, starting with ourselves.
[00:24:05] We'll line up. Yes. You know, we can get there more often, but if it means like, and then they'll, you know, the misbehavior goes away or the risk taking goes away, or, you know, then they'll do what we want them to do. We're gonna be unsatisfied. Yes. Yeah. So we get to shift also in recogniz. What is important?
[00:24:26] Marielle Melling: Exactly.
[00:24:26] Casey O'Roarty: And while you know, I think it's important to all of us that our kids don't like become drug addicts or are dead in a ditch. Of course, yes. But really, I want my kids to be critical thinkers. I want them to be thoughtful. I want them to learn from their mistakes. I want them to grow through what they're going through.
[00:24:45] Right. And all of that requires them to have experiences. Yes.
[00:24:49] Marielle Melling: Yeah. And so two things came to mind as you're saying this. One is, yeah, that's the hard work. That's the longer work, right? If, if this quick shift in the moment doesn't work, that's where we get to go deeper and go, okay, what's going on? Big picture here.
[00:25:01] And oftentimes it comes back to that, but like, what is the bottom underlying truth? What do I actually want most? And while we will say it. We don't always live it. What people say is, my relationships matter to me right When people are dying. Oh, it's not, I wish I would've worked more. It's, I wish I would've been closer with my kids.
[00:25:19] Like, so we, we know these things cerebrally, but we don't always live them. And one of the reasons is that our wiring, we are wired for survival and survival relationships are very different than thriving relationships. And so we have these. You know, sometimes we learned growing up maybe that a good relationship is based on how much I do for the other person, or it's based on, you know, me being so perfect, me being just what they need.
[00:25:52] So I'm shifting myself to be in, in this type of way that the other person needs. Right. What we instead find is that, you know, if we actually are caring about these deep relationships, and that's actually our bottom underlying truth, which by the way is going to make it more like less likely if we have these good relationships with our kids.
[00:26:13] It's the number one thing we can do to keep them out of the itch. Right. It's the number one thing we can do to keep them from addiction. So these outward things that we also want really come back to this bottom underlying truth of this way of being in relationship. But sometimes that requires a deeper understanding of what does that actually mean?
[00:26:30] Well, it means that I am fully me and you are fully you, my teen, this other human, this other person, and we're now choosing to be in this relationship together. Which is a very different dynamic than, you know, I'm trying to do all I can for you. I'm trying to fix your problems. I'm trying to keep you out of trouble.
[00:26:47] Yeah. I'm trying to create all these things. So the work that we eventually are gonna do is gonna go down to, okay, as I'm unlayering and unpacking, yeah, I want my kid to stay healthy. I want all of these things for my kid. And at the very bottom of that, what do I actually want that I have control over?
[00:27:03] And what we typically come to is it's this way of being in relationship. So how do I rewire myself for that?
[00:27:11] Casey O'Roarty: Where do you think acceptance comes into this formula? And by acceptance, I mean, you know, accepting the kid for who they are today, accepting their journey as theirs, accepting the hard things as a piece of a bigger tapestry.
[00:27:31] Mm-hmm. What do you think about that? Because I feel like there's something really rich in a conversation around acceptance and I feel like it's also a place where resistance can poke its head up.
[00:27:45] Marielle Melling: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think at the heart of it, it comes down to what do you think about humanity? Truly. Oh really?
[00:27:55] I do. We, I know, and I'm gonna go there just because that's what came to mind. Um, and, and this is the analogy that I often use with acceptance, is this idea that if, if I have this seed and mm-hmm. I don't necessarily know what it's gonna be become, right. But I believe that this is a good seed and I believe that this is gonna be something that if I nurture it.
[00:28:16] It's gonna grow into something magnificent. Maybe it's an oak, maybe it's an apple tree, maybe it's a flower, but I believe it's a good seed. So I can fully 100% accept this seed for all that it is and all of its potential and all that it will grow into, and at the same time. That means that I want to nurture it.
[00:28:36] I want to help it grow. I want to help it calm all that it can be. And so for me, acceptance is really, again, if I'm starting with myself, it has to start with this radical self-acceptance, that I'm a good person, that I'm a good parent, that I'm who my kids need me to be. And at the same time, I want to keep.
[00:28:55] Learning. I want to keep growing. I want to keep changing and refining myself and being willing to be honest with myself about, Hey, I'm not doing this the way I want to right now. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It means I have potential to grow, right? Yeah. And so with our kids, I feel it's the same way.
[00:29:12] If I can do that radically with my myself, it becomes much easier to do that radically with my kids, that I fully accept who they are and their experience and their potential and their being while also. I don't have to see them as perfect. They're gonna make mistakes. That's part of, right. That's part of humanity.
[00:29:29] And I don't need to like brush that over and be like, oh, no worries, little when you're fine. Like, no, I can have confidence that they will grow through their challenges and their mistakes as well, but I want that growth for them. So it's an acceptance of where I am and where I've been and also. It's not just tolerance, if that makes sense.
[00:29:50] It's very different to me than tolerance. It's also, I see this potential in myself and I wanna, I wanna feed that with love.
[00:29:58] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and as I was listening to you talk about the seed and not knowing Yeah. What kind of seed it is. I was thinking about like. The experience of delighting, right? With all the new growth and all the new little teases of, of what is, who is this person gonna be?
[00:30:19] Like, there's this opportunity to really delight in them. And I see, you know, I can see it in families I see in in those families where. You know, their kiddos are just knit, making their way, and there's so much space and so much curiosity. I feel like curiosity, but like this like, ooh, like enthusiastic, like I can't wait to find out kind of curiosity versus, you know, I see another family's family I grew up in, you know, where it's a very narrow vision around what it should look like at.
[00:30:55] You know, 18. Mm-hmm. 25. And that's, I think when we start to send those messages of this isn't good enough. Right. You are not good enough. Yeah. You're not reaching your potential. You're not, you know, and we really lose, I think that's where so much it's talking about humanity. Mm-hmm. Like the underlying pain of humanity, I think can be traced back to those messages of not enoughness or.
[00:31:21] Trying to make our, you know, kids conform, you know, to something that is supposed to look a certain way and act a certain way, and there's so much beautiful diversity in the human spirit. And I think when any kid is raised in a household that delights in and granted, I mean, it's whiplash during the teen years, right?
[00:31:43] I mean, they're trying lots of things on and it's so hard not to get stuck in like, oh my gosh, this is forever. Yeah, you're like this now and you're gonna be like this forever. And if that's a scary prospect, it's no wonder that parents wanna cut it off. Mm-hmm. Right or shifted into a different direction.
[00:32:02] I think it's really important, and again, that comes back to that inner work of hold up. Yeah. Yeah. What's the most important thing to me right now? And when we talk about acceptance, like I want my kids to feel really good about their identity. Good. About how they're self expressing. I want them to not be a, a defiant, like, screw you.
[00:32:26] I'm gonna be who I wanna be, which is actually just ultimately the opposite of whatever you think and not necessarily who I wanna be. Yeah. Like there's just so, it's so rich, this conversation here and this space that we hold for our kids to continue to develop, right? Yeah.
[00:32:42] Marielle Melling: I think it, it is a, again, like are we trying to mold our children or trying to nurture our children?
[00:32:49] And when you're looking at these teen years and you're going, yes, some of these things that they're trying on, I can see from my place of wisdom. That this isn't really them. This is a reaction to something else. This is a, you know, striving to fit in. And so I'm saying, okay, what's their bottom underlying truth, right?
[00:33:05] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. Is that,
[00:33:05] Marielle Melling: is it that they want to fit in? Well, let's find them a way to fit in that aligns with who they really want to be in the end. Right? And so you're mm-hmm. You're walking this with them. The same process that we're talking about for ourselves is, is happening with our kids. And in the butt book, I have a whole chapter that about the big, but the big, but is.
[00:33:23] What we believe about ourselves. And just as you were saying, that sense of identity that is going to color the way that we see the whole world. It's do I believe that I'm good enough? Do I believe that I'm worthy just because or do I have to earn my place in the tribe? And so if we are really being intentional about our own beliefs, about ourselves, our own bottom underlying truths about ourselves, it's going to.
[00:33:48] Just very naturally, I always say it kinda leaks out of us, and that's the messaging that our kids are gonna pick up. And so if you're just doing this work for yourself right now, figuring out like, am I only a good mom because my teen gets good grades, right? Is that what makes me a good mom or am I a worthy person just because all the time.
[00:34:09] You're gonna have such an easier time helping your teens believe that about themselves because this is their time of creating that identity. This is their time of figuring out what is my bottom underlying truth? What do I care about? What do I want to create in this world? What kind of person do I wanna be?
[00:34:26] All that kind of stuff is. Coming out in these experimentations, right? Yeah. In the teenage years. Yes. And, and the more that we're doing this, the more comfortable we are with this work with ourselves, the more comfortable and confident we're gonna be able to be to help our kids go, okay. How did that go for you?
[00:34:43] Did that feel good? Is that what you really want? Okay. Mm-hmm. Yes it is. Let's do it. No, it's not. Let's back it up and how can we get that same need met in a way that does feel good to you? And so, mm-hmm. It is. It's a really, I think it is always relevant for us to get to know ourselves and figure ourselves out, and then help our kids as they're doing that same thing in really big ways right now.
[00:35:17] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, I, it makes me think about something that I was talking, I don't remember who I was talking about this, or maybe I was writing about it, but the practice of believing that our kids are capable and courageous. Mm-hmm. Those two words for me. Are just really, I mean, if we can simply believe, simply believe that our kids are capable and courageous, then our kids can start to believe the same thing.
[00:35:48] And it's interesting to talk to parents, and I'm sure that you've had clients as well who might say something like, but I, but I don't believe that. Mm-hmm. And so I'm, I'm wondering now as I'm listening to you, like thinking about. The follow up question to that, right? Like one follow up question might be what are you risking?
[00:36:12] You know, what's the risk of not believing that they're capable and confident, but also like, well, what do you have to lose if you do try that on? Like there's something here too that is just kind of percolating, is just starting to form in my mind about this and this. That resistance, uh, like it's almost, it's almost as if parent like, well, if I do believe that, then, but they're sitting on their, in their room all day doing nothing.
[00:36:40] Like, what am I risking? I don't know, like, like what is coming up for you when you hear that? I, I just always find it so interesting when parents have deci, it's almost like a decision. Like, Nope, I don't believe that they're capable and courageous. Yeah. And it's like,
[00:36:53] Marielle Melling: how are they supposed to believe it of themselves?
[00:36:56] Right. So I think that's. Uh, where we go, like, where do these buts come from? Where do these mm-hmm. So if you're saying, but I don't believe that. Right, right. I, I wanna think that they're capable and courageous, but I don't believe that. So where do our beliefs come from? Generally two places. One is from an authority that we trust.
[00:37:16] And the other is from lived experience where we rightfully or wrongfully, we see it play out a certain way. It seems like a pattern. Humans love patterns. So we create this pattern and we start to believe that pattern, and we call that a belief, right? So, mm-hmm. The sun rose. I see it rise every day. I have this belief that the sun's gonna rise tomorrow.
[00:37:35] Simply put. So when I'm saying, okay, but I don't believe that my kid is capable, where does that come from? Did it come from an authority when you were growing up that taught you that you weren't capable, that you weren't courageous, that you weren't, you know, if you weren't getting straight A's, that meant that you weren't trying hard enough or whatever that, whatever that messaging was, right?
[00:37:54] Or is there something very real that happened that you saw that as. No, they, they weren't capable in this situation. They weren't courageous,
[00:38:02] Casey O'Roarty: right?
[00:38:02] Marielle Melling: And so then we get to start to say, okay, why do I have this belief? And then we get to question that. Does that mean that it's true?
[00:38:10] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:11] Marielle Melling: And what I think is fascinating about beliefs is that we clinging to these things is if they're fact, but there's actually a whole range of opportunity about what we can choose to believe.
[00:38:21] Yeah. And so if you just start to look for either authority. Or evidence that shows you otherwise, right? Yeah. And that could be, you know, somebody like us saying, well, kids really are capable, especially when you equip them and tell them that they are, because they're gonna live up to that expectation. Or it could be you experimenting with that and just trying on that belief and seeing what happens when you put a little faith and a little trust in that kid and saying, Hey.
[00:38:49] I, I, I think if you have to start with, I think, or I hope or whatever, whatever you have to do to get there, I want to believe, I want to believe maybe not that, that kind of feels like a backhanded comment. Say that, say that to your partner or to somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. But if you start trying that on and then actually look for that evidence, 'cause you're gonna find more of what you're looking for and so yeah, try it on for size, but I, it is.
[00:39:11] Again, going back to that self-compassion, there's a reason that you think that there's a reason that you believe that, and if you just brush that under the rug, it's not gonna go away. But if you confront that reasoning and start to think about, why do I actually believe that? What is the fear behind that, or the lesson or wherever that came from, then I can start to.
[00:39:30] Really question those things and mm-hmm. Get curious about those things. And then I get to make intentional choices because I am a human being. And that's, you know, I, I believe fullheartedly that the choices that we make are more important than anything that we don't have control over. I've seen that.
[00:39:48] Mm-hmm. Over and over again, throughout history, throughout, you know, all of these people that I turn to, that I trust, that I believe their inner experience. The process of, uh, I, I just could go on and on and on about that in and of itself. But you are not a victim, right? That's the, that's the bottom line is you get to decide.
[00:40:07] You get to choose, and if those beliefs aren't serving you well, check in with them, get curious and see what else might be going on there.
[00:40:15] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. I think there's also an opportunity to reframe some things. I think about my own kiddo who went through a deeply discouraged. Era. Mm-hmm. Season, yeah. Of adolescence.
[00:40:28] And when I look back right in the moment, it was trickier. But looking back and recognizing what looked like a kid who had given up was actually a kid who was in deep survival mode and survival mode, requires resilience and requires grit, and requires courage. It just looks different. And so for listeners who you know are living inside of that space with a discouraged teenager, just remember.
[00:41:03] Like dig a little deeper and see the ways that resilience and maturity. I mean, I had Tina Bryson on a while back, and one of the things that she said that really stuck with me is she said, you know, they're maturing no matter what you do. Yeah. Like maturity happens no matter what kind of parent you are.
[00:41:20] And that gave me so much comfort. I was like, oh yeah, that's right. That's the natural order of things. Day to day to day to day to day. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So yes to all of this. I love everything that you're saying. I'm loving this conversation and I'm thinking about, you know, busy parents who've got a lot of things happening and they want to practice that mindfulness and that pause and that recognition of, okay, what is my butt?
[00:41:48] They wanna create that. What are some baby steps that they can take to support them so that Tuesday afternoon at four o'clock, when everybody's falling apart, they actually have some muscle memory to interrupt that kind of shoot from the hip response and really be way more intentional about their. You know how they be with their kiddos.
[00:42:11] Yeah.
[00:42:11] Marielle Melling: So important. 'cause these are awesome ideas, but if we don't do anything with them, then they're not that helpful. Right? Yeah. So, uh, it's just a great podcast. Just a great, yeah. Great conversation. Thanks for being here with us. Uh, so, uh, one simple thing to do is to schedule five minutes a day. Where you are just going to tune in and practice mindfulness, which is that present non-judgmental awareness.
[00:42:32] Right. And as much as it's non-judgmental, I'm gonna add self-compassion to that. So whether it is five minutes of eating where you're going to actually slow down enough to taste your food, to look at the things around you, to breathe deep, to swallow, to you, just pay attention to yourself. Mm-hmm. To let yourself recognize, what am I feeling right now?
[00:42:51] What's my emotion? Just tuning inward are natural. Culture right now does not inspire us to do that or encourage us to do that or create space for us to do that. So if you can do that for five minutes a day. Whatever it is you're doing. Like if you can take a quiet, mindful moment, that's great. If it is while you're doing something else, if it's while you're walking, if it is, wherever it is, whatever it is, practice that because it is muscle memory.
[00:43:18] You know, there's different parts of our brain when we get mindful, when we tune in, and so if we can build those muscles in quiet moments, we're gonna have more access to them in those heated moments or those moments when things are hard. So that's the first is to just practice that. Quiet time, that mindfulness, when things are like, when you can schedule around it, so to speak, so that you can practice it.
[00:43:40] Mm-hmm. The more you practice it, the easier it's gonna get. So I say five minutes because that is doable for most of us, but over time you're gonna bring that type of mindfulness into your everyday life. And so that's the second piece of that is to. In that moment when things get crazy, and I call it the but mindfulness technique because it's very, we can just kind of lay it out a step, so to speak.
[00:44:02] So the first thing is to pause and take some deep breaths. And in that deep breath moment you are tuning in and you're saying, I feel right again, Tina pay Bryson and, and Dan Siegel like, name a detainment. Right. I feel, and you're, you're just with awareness recognizing what do I feel right now? I feel belittled, I feel disrespected.
[00:44:22] I feel frustrated. I feel tired. I feel hungry. I feel whatever that is, that you feel tune in with those deep breaths and offer some compassion. Like it is good to feel these things. This is the way that our brain communicates with us about the world. This is the experience of being human. I'm okay to feel these things.
[00:44:41] The second step is to find your butt, right? So I feel frustrated because this is what's happening, but my real bottom underlying truth is that I care about this relationship, or I care about how I show up, or I care about whatever it is for you. That rings true as your real intentional bottom and a lying truth.
[00:45:01] And then the third step is to make an intentional choice from that. So I feel really frustrated because my teen is ignoring me again. But this relationship matters more than this other thing that we're battling about. Therefore, it might be, I'm gonna talk about this later when we're both cooled down.
[00:45:19] Mm-hmm. Or therefore I am going to, you get to choose what that is. Um, but that the more that we do this, that's really beautiful because. Like, my little kids would know, like, oh, mom's deep breathing again. Right. So it just, it becomes more natural. It becomes a part of what you do. It sends this message to your kids that, that they can pause, that they can be responsive instead of reactive.
[00:45:42] That they can be intentional instead of, you know, all wired up all the time. Yeah. And then it also, the more you do it, the more you respond. In line with your true bottom underlying truths, the more your brain starts to get it, your brain starts to get, oh, I really do care more about this relationship than about this fear.
[00:46:02] I really do care more about being thoughtful than I do about being right. I really do care more about whatever it is that's important to you. Your brain starts to get it, and you start, start to respond differently to those situations in the future than you used to in the past. So two, so good.
[00:46:21] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, everybody go back a few minutes and then listen, re-listen at a slower speed so that you can really take in that practice that you just really beautifully mapped out for us.
[00:46:31] Thank you so much. Mm-hmm. And I just, you know, just as we close, I wanna say to listeners, you. Are, I believe that you are capable and you are courageous, right? And you are a human being. Having an emotional experience and your willingness to look at those bottom underlying truths. The result of that is, you know, creating a space for really useful relationship with your teens, but also like you just mentioned, normalizing.
[00:47:05] Mm-hmm. Normalizing that we all get to continue to grow and develop and be better for each other. So thank you so much for this whole conversation. Is there anything else that you wanna share before we end?
[00:47:18] Marielle Melling: I would add, just as you, I guess I'm gonna echo what you just said and I. And as we're looking at our kids and we are accepting of our kids, I would say the same thing to these parents that are listening, that you are a good seed.
[00:47:30] That no matter what you've been through, no matter what you think about yourself in your darkest moments, no matter your fears, you are a good seed and you're a good parent. And the fact that you are listening to this because you are, that fact is evidence. That, that your heart's in the right place. And so give yourself grace.
[00:47:47] Have that self-compassion for yourself because you are doing a great work. You're doing the most important work there is, and any, any effort that you're putting into being intentional to being there for your kids, to helping your teens have a meaningful experience is so important and so powerful.
[00:48:03] Casey O'Roarty: Oh my god.
[00:48:04] And boy, does the world need generations coming up who are thoughtful and intentional and kind and. Grounded in who they are. Mm-hmm. So, yes. Okay. In the context of understanding our butts and bringing consciousness to our parenting, what does joyful courage mean to you today, Marielle? I love that question,
[00:48:27] Marielle Melling: and I love how easily this comes together in my head because, oh, yes.
[00:48:31] Yeah. Because to me, I think joyful courage really is having the willingness to be honest with yourself, to be willing to say, what are my butts? Is that really true? And, and if not, how can I be courageous enough to do something about it, to shift the way that I'm living and, um, to really have that courage to live fully.
[00:48:49] Not like you're doing everything, but that you're experiencing everything fully and paying attention to that experience and then finding the joy in that, because this type of growth and this type of acceptance and this type of. It's a, it's a really compassionate way of living and that brings deep joy, so I love it.
[00:49:10] Love it. Yay. Where can people find you and follow your work? Uh, website is your EF r.com for your extraordinary family relationships, Y-O-U-R-E-F r.com and on Instagram at extraordinary relationships. Beautiful. And where can they find your books? Um, on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Okay, great. Yeah.
[00:49:30] Website as well. Awesome.
[00:49:31] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This is a great conversation. I can't wait to share it. I really appreciate the work that you do. Thank you Right back at you, Casey.
[00:49:45] Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my SPR partners. Julietta and Alana, thank you Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:50:12] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids. Of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.