Eps 567: Revisiting Mental Spring Cleaning with Dr. Aprile Andelle

Joyful courage to me. It means being able to experience every single day, me authentically doing exactly what brings me joy and um, whether I have courage or not… Right? Hmm. Yeah. Whether I have courage or not, I’m going to step into it because on the other side of that, there is joy. And I would love that. Oh, and lots of green stuff and water and all the kids drink your water, pets, and, you know, all those things. So, joyful courage, and I think it’s just living in a really authentic life that, um, leaves you with joy behind.

Transcription

[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Hey everybody, it's Casey. I just wanted to jump in here at the top of the show and let you know that today is a replay with Dr. April Andel from a conversation we had back in 2021 about mental spring cleaning. I. Really appreciated this conversation, and I think now is the perfect time to revisit what Dr.
[00:00:24] Ann Dell brought to all of us through this interview. So hopefully it is sunny for you, wherever you are. Hopefully you are seeing the signs of spring and anticipating the warm days of summer. I so appreciate you listening and I'll be back on Monday.
[00:00:48] Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement. In the messy terrain of adolescents, this season of parenting is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:01:12] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth. And man, the opportunities abound, right? My name is. Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:01:36] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years and continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom. With my two young adult kids, I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:55] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you for who you are and for being in the community. Enjoy the show.
[00:02:09] Hello, listeners. I'm so glad to be back this week with today's guest. Her name is Dr. April Andel. Dr. Andel is a black woman licensed psychotherapist with over nine years and 10,000 hours of experience in deep dive healing work. With amazing clients all around the world. She hosts the Do I Need Therapy Podcast Show available on Apple and Google Podcast, Spotify and Stitcher, and speaks to her community openly, loudly, and proudly about mental health, love, and life, plus the process of therapy and the strength found in asking for help.
[00:02:48] She teaches amazing, high ambitious women and women of color, the skills of long lasting positive mental health and overcoming stress. Overwhelm, anxiety, depression, and trauma, including her every April psychological spring cleaning course. Offered every springtime in April to support the fierce, yet sensitive woman achieve positive mental health all year long.
[00:03:14] She specializes in online and virtual therapy and offers mental wellness support. For all through her mental health master classes, courses, and meditations. She's a world traveler, currently based in Miami, loves all things declutter and minimal lifestyle except plants. She says you can never have too many plants and green stuff.
[00:03:33] I love that is described as that unique kind of person who makes lifelong friends in 24 hours or less. And can often be found on Instagram watching endless reels of laugh out loud therapy, memes and reenactments, or enjoying a deep campfire style conversation on clubhouse. Hi, Dr. Andel. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:03:56] Hello. Glad to be here. Yay. I am so glad that you are here. Can you start off by sharing a bit more with the listeners about your journey of doing what you do and who you are? Absolutely.
[00:04:12] Aprile Andelle: My journey began a long time ago in the world.
[00:04:17] Casey O'Roarty: Far, far away. In a far away
[00:04:18] Aprile Andelle: land, you know.
[00:04:19] Um, I had several different, starts, which is actually really interesting because once upon a time I had no idea I was going to be a psychotherapist one day. So one start is when I, graduated from college and came out international business with a briefcase in hand, and I was like, I'm going to rule the world with my heels.
[00:04:38] Then I also worked in the media world. And I, transferred and realized that I really loved social engagement and pieces of my training from business and media was culture and people. And it connected with me on a much deeper level, and I'm telling you those personality.
[00:04:59] Tests that we took back in the day. I don't know if you've taken them at all. Oh yeah. I'm an ENFP. Oh, right. INTJ. INTJ. Yeah. Those things. I took them way back when and I was, in high school and so many times they pointed me to being a psychologist. I ignored every single one of them. I said, oh, okay.
[00:05:22] Interesting. But I'm gonna be a business woman. So. It, that part of that process of my start came from how I became molded in the world, starting from business, moving to media, and then I landed so beautifully in therapy, which now can combine all of it. That's one piece. Mm-hmm. Another piece is that I grew up by myself.
[00:05:45] I was an only child. I had a wonderful, loving mother she's amazing. She's a nurse. She gives a lot of care and compassion. My compassion and care comes from her. She's been doing it over 40 years now. Stunning woman and inside. I was also a single mother, so she worked at night when I was sleeping and when I was up during the day, she was sleeping, so it was like a switch.
[00:06:11] So I grew up a lot on my own and inside of that process, I just learned really hard about how that mental strength part and the weaknesses that you can have, it really does show up inside of those really quiet moments with yourself. So I struggled with depression. Didn't realize what that was. I struggled with not having anybody to talk to.
[00:06:33] Didn't understand that then, but when I later transitioned into being a therapist, I wanted to be that help to somebody else. If I could help some one person just feel like they have someone to turn to, even just one. This is why I'm here.
[00:06:48] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and I imagine what I know about psychology programs and things like that is that you get to do a lot of your own work, so.
[00:06:59] Surprise.
[00:07:00] Aprile Andelle: Yes. I call it therapy school, but for me it was seven years where I went from my master's degree. I finished and I said, I'm still hungry for more. Yeah. And I knew how I'm, I'm always striving for that. Excellence. And I said, you know what I want more of this. And so I got my doctorate.
[00:07:23] It's so interesting how I can say that in the span of 20 seconds, it was seven. Years. Yeah. It's a big
[00:07:30] Casey O'Roarty: deal. Good for you. Thank you. And I just keep imagining too, I mean there's the studying and the being of the student, but also because of the content such. Powerful uncovering of things about yourself along the way, I'm sure.
[00:07:46]
[00:07:46] Aprile Andelle: Absolutely. The interesting thing was pretty much along that lines is how much you uncover of yourself and Yeah, for me in particular, I learned things about myself that I didn't quite realize and I recognize that getting that degree or even both of 'em, uh, I uncovered new parts of myself.
[00:08:07] Then inside of the actual program, I was in a very intense program. It's one of the best in the country for my discipline, which is marriage and family therapy. It's just a fancy way of saying I specialize in relationships. Mm-hmm. And. They're really good at what they do. We have a very strong, clinical practice.
[00:08:26] A lot of research, a lot of training, and a lot of book reading, you know? Many times we're in the textbooks. And when you're inside of those, particularly the diagnosing textbook, it's the DSM. It reads just like your life. You start to realize like, oh man, I have half of these things,
[00:08:48] Casey O'Roarty: I can only imagine. I have a little pipe dream of going back to school to get my counseling degree, and I'm like, oh, geez. How much more is there to uncover? Much more?
[00:08:58] Aprile Andelle: Casey, you're gonna find out all kinds of stuff about yourself. It's fun. It's grueling, but it's fun. Yeah. And I have a small joke. I tell some of my friends, even some of my clients sometimes, you know, because everything worth being rewarded by everything worth accomplishing, it's worth striving for, and it's worth the struggle through it.
[00:09:19] Yeah. And because of that uncovering, because of that process of finding out new things about yourself in, therapy school. I remember one particular day I was in the tutoring lab because we have so much writing to do, so I got tutored religiously like every single day. I had a wonderful tutor, so I went through that process one day and I was just talking with a classmate and she
[00:09:43] was saying, oh my gosh, I'm so stressed. And I said, yeah, me too. And then for some reason I was just like, he said, yeah, I just, I had two breakdowns this time. You know, just, it just kinda happened. And she laughed and she said, oh, good for you. Only two. Good job. Yeah, it's, it's that kind of thing. But that program, it was amazing.
[00:10:03] It kind of tore you down and then built you back up. Mm-hmm. And I truly recognize the. The difficulty through it, it really was challenging. But man, you such a gift. Gift with a gift on the other side.
[00:10:17] Casey O'Roarty: Yes. Yeah. Well, and I love in, in coaching we say, you have to break down to break through.
[00:10:22] Right. Gotta break down to break through. And I definitely, you know, it's interesting to put it in the context of parenting. Just a little side note from my listeners. I remember a few years back when things got really intense with my. Oldest, my teenage daughter, who I talk about a lot on the show, she's given me permission.
[00:10:41] Don't worry. Um, but I remember like these things would happen and it would get more and more intense over a few days. And then there'd be this blow up and then it was like we could come back together. And, in my mind it was as if she was building this wall over a few days, and then something, whatever it was like a behavior or I find something out or something would happen and we'd have some kind of blow up but it was what was needed to break down that wall so she could step back into relationship with me.
[00:11:13] And you're just reminding me of that, you know, how much is on the other side when we move through really tough times. So thanks. Thanks for that. So tell me about, so we are in April, and you've got this cool program that I know is a little too late for my listeners to jump in on, but it's all about psychological spring cleaning.
[00:11:34] Tell me about what's prompted you to create this program.
[00:11:37] Aprile Andelle: Oh, okay. Well, I shared with you a little bit and it's just the fact that I'm very transparent with everyone, my clients, my friends, my family, my mental health sensitivity. Is depression, and I know that, a lot of people out there can relate and it's something that we should all be talking about more because once we talk about it, we realize we're not alone. And there are many different ways that people can, you know, feed us, encourage us, support us to move again, like you said, through it, right? Mm-hmm. To the other side of it. My depression started showing up when I was in high school. About that time is when I can pull back and start to realize some of those, behaviors and symptoms, and it followed me all throughout my twenties inside of every single, major life transition.
[00:12:25] I didn't have a lot of the traditional support and environmental cocoon when I was moving through those processes through my twenties and my thirties. So things felt like it hit me harder. And then one of the biggest things was, just struggling inside of, I was single for a really long time, and that was really challenging.
[00:12:46] So loneliness also triggered my depression. I carried that a lot. I started getting better, understanding what it is. I go to therapy school. I learned that. This is a vital piece of my mental health. So all to say that I truly believe that that long lasting, positive mental health is really possible versus the constant ups and downs.
[00:13:12] Monday is great. Tuesday is terrible. Wednesday, eh. By Friday, you're just on the floor again, and you're constantly in this cycle of picking yourself up. And I want my amazing women and moms and Kindred family to feel like they can do this over longer stretches of really strong mental health with me, once I started really paying attention to it, I, started doing small practices to help support that.
[00:13:45] Mm-hmm. So
[00:13:46] Aprile Andelle: when I started doing this psychological spring cleaning, it came to me because I just needed a renewal. I need a refresh. And for me, it's something really special about the springtime. I, even with my clients, I operate during seasons. Yeah. I don't
[00:14:02] Casey O'Roarty: know if you
[00:14:02] Aprile Andelle: do
[00:14:02] Casey O'Roarty: this. Well, I I live in the Pacific Northwest, so the seasons are like a part of the external environment. So I love the spring cleaning idea because the spring it's like, okay, it's a, we go,
[00:14:13] Aprile Andelle: yeah, new life, a new story, new possibility life.
[00:14:17] Yes, and I've, I think I've always been sensitive to it as well, because that's, that's actually my name. So I've always felt a little bit closer to that changing of, you know, even the world's energy, the earth's energy, at least on this side of the world. Are you a spring birthday?
[00:14:34] I am a spring baby. Yes, I can. There you go. See, it's all coming together. Yeah. Mercury and Venus perfectly aligned. Exactly. Nice. So I definitely feel it stronger. So anyway, I just, I feel it more people often express it during New Year's, but for me I feel it more during spring and New Year's is about goals and setting goals again for your year.
[00:14:58] But this is just, it's deeper because we need to cleanse. Since I started doing that. I can tell you that with my mental health sensitivity to depression, I have not fallen to any major depression in the past three years. Wow. Three years now, I'm not saying I haven't had bad days, mind you. Sure. I'm not saying that.
[00:15:21] You know, there still are human. Thank you. Exactly right. But I know my major depressions, I know when I'm at the bottom of the pit, I know when I'm falling and I abs like there's nothing I can do to just even grasp at the walls. I'm falling all the way down and I stay there until I get the strength to start climbing back up.
[00:15:41] But I haven't been there in. Three years. And every time I think about that, I just, um, get all warm and fuzzy and I really want to teach it to others so that they can learn that this is possible. The ups and downs, you don't have to go through it.
[00:15:55] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and I love what you said about New Year's being about goals and spring being a different kind of new.
[00:16:01] Year especially because in my experience, which is not like backed by research, but you know, I get really jazzed about New Year's and the new year and I set those goals and I get all excited and there's all this like energy around January and then February, March, it's like mm-hmm. So it's perfect to
[00:16:27] have this April experience of like, okay, I get to actually turn and look at where I am right now and make some choices about being less of, you know, I don't wanna, well, I'm gonna use the word victim, being a less of a victim to circumstance and experience and more of the influencer of my life. Which, you know, that's really what I'm hearing you talk about is you've decided, you know.
[00:16:54] I know these things about myself and I know what I need and I know what I can do to help myself, you know, keep more of an even keel on the ups and downs versus being inside of the big peaks and valleys. So that's really powerful. I'm really glad you
[00:17:11] Aprile Andelle: feel so, and I do want to just say that I love that you have that energy at the beginning of the year.
[00:17:17] It's very titillating. It's a lot of sensation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole world is in it. There's fireworks and all the right, and, yeah, it does. It's sometimes wither and die, but I know that sometimes those things stick. And sometimes they are still just as meaningful. Yeah. And what I like to do is with the earth, with the actual change of how the earth is, is flowing and changing inside of, you know, it's very decor with the trees and the leaves and the green.
[00:17:45] It feels a little bit more visceral. It feels more ethereal. And then. Also more grounded. You know, we talk about how you mm-hmm take off your shoes and you walk along the grass to ground yourself back to the earth of the energy. And it's something like that. It's deeper, but both, both can have significant meaning.
[00:18:03] So I'm glad you get all jazzed up for your New Year's.
[00:18:06] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, definitely. Well, and I think this is such perfect timing for this conversation on so many levels because it is April, 2021. That's our context and we are for the most part, I feel like I can speak for everyone and saying we are totally over pandemic life over it.
[00:18:28] Over it and you know that my audience are parents of teens and we are a group of people that are definitely feeling the tension and asking, what is this time gonna mean for our kids? Have we done enough for them? Have we been enough for them? Are teens are really struggling? With the people that you serve who are parents, what's coming up for them around this?
[00:18:52] What kind of conversations are you having?
[00:18:54] Aprile Andelle: I'm, having some conversations of victory, right? So there's this whole process that we've all been in and trying and working and really going through this, um, discovery of the new normal, right? This is setting your life without the expectations of what it was a year prior, right?
[00:19:14] So I am getting some victory and, and people feeling fulfilled and I'm so happy to hear that. So if that's you out there, you know, every victory that you have, more power to you and you know, yeah. Keep on going. Um, I also get a little bit of the feeling of failure.
[00:19:34] Mm-hmm.
[00:19:35] Aprile Andelle: One of my, actually it's one of a, a really good friend of mine, she's like a soul sister.
[00:19:40] She just described to me the other day that she feels like she's, I'm failing in life. She's got, um, two little boys. Uh, one of them does act like a teenager, I must say. And, um, her, I just went to visit her, you know, masked and everything. Of course. But her house was out of order. She hadn't gotten, um, dinner started yet.
[00:20:05] Uh, everybody was all over the place and things were chaotic and hectic. And her, uh, older son was just kind of flailing about, just, just flailing about, she says, I feel like I'm failing. Mm-hmm. And I've heard that before and I really want to encourage your moms out there. Moms of joyful courage. This failure thing is, it's, it's not, it's not something.
[00:20:35] I want you to subscribe to the feeling, first of all. Um, and this is just a little mental health, um, psychotherapist lesson. Yeah. Feelings are temporary. Yeah. If you think about it all the time, from that moment to the next mm-hmm. A year ago. They're, they're always changing. They're always evolving. So even though it may feel that way for a moment, you don't want to live there because it'll change.
[00:21:00] Yeah. So that feel of failure, you want to think a bit more as just something to acknowledge rather than something to really, um, take in and believe. If that makes sense.
[00:21:11] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Let's talk a, can we play around with that a little bit, please? Yeah. 'cause I know that that's a biggie. You know, that's a big one. I think that's a big one.
[00:21:20] Even outside of this pandemic context, I think parenting, especially as moms, like there's just. So many, we set ourselves up thinking that we're supposed to be perfect, and then of course we aren't perfect because we are human beings. And so that failure conversation is just always ready to pop up. And I'm wondering, so you said, and I love what you said, don't live in it.
[00:21:43] Right? And so speaking to the people that are listening who are feeling that way, what does not living inside of it? Look like? Like what's the process? Can you take us through a process that'll help us when we have those feelings of feeling? 'cause like, I mean, especially with our teenagers, there are so many things that come up.
[00:22:06] You know, doors slamming parents that are feeling really disconnected to their teens, like their teens aren't willing, wanting to talk to them. You know, watching them just, you know, fall apart with the school situation right now, worried about their future. It's, and I've been there too. I've been in some really dark times and, and knowing in my head it's not always gonna be like this.
[00:22:35] Like knowing those words, but at the same time the fear of how could this poss, how is this ever gonna look Any different also exists and how do you support people in being with. Both of those things. Big, big question. Yeah. I put you on the spot. You sure did. 10,000 hours of clinical practice though. Come on girl.
[00:22:59] I got, I got you. I got you though. 'cause I got 10,000 hours. Right. You're good. I know. I wouldn't have asked if I didn't have total faith.
[00:23:06] Aprile Andelle: I, I think that it's broken into two things. One is the care of. You of mom, it's the care of you as a caregiver, as mom, yeah. As a person. And the other is the caregiver of your teen.
[00:23:23] Mm-hmm. Right? And that other, that other entity of you. So let me, let me respond first to just the care of mom. Love that. So I think it's really a formation of how are we. Doing strong things to improve and maintain good emotional health as a basis, as a foundation, not as an afterthought, right? Yeah. As the foundation of how you're operating every single day.
[00:23:55] And I can give you just, you know, quick tips. That you have heard before. You have all heard before, but it's just, it's just that meeting of constant ongoing, um, support and encouragement and reminders to help you to kind of just, just wing back, just wing back to the balance, right? Yeah. One of the things is making sure that you think before you act, you think before
[00:24:18] Casey O'Roarty: you speak.
[00:24:20] Would that be being responsive versus reactive? Ooh, look at her over here. Yes. Well, I am a life coach. April. Come on. You know this
[00:24:31] Aprile Andelle: stuff, miss. Life coach. Absolutely,
[00:24:33] Casey O'Roarty: absolutely. Well, and it's all good when I'm supporting clients. It's another thing when I'm confronted by my own children. Right? Exactly.
[00:24:40] Aprile Andelle: Exactly. And you know, this is just a lesson that they need to learn too. But you're the grownup. Yeah, you're the grownup. So what I share with, um, clients is to kind of think of it in regards to giving yourself, um, timing. Whether you're breathing through it, whether you're saying a little mnemonic, whatever it is, I would tell my clients to think about giving yourself five to 10 seconds.
[00:25:04] And when you are angry and in the moment and upset that five seconds even, it takes forever and you need to count. Yeah. One Mississippi, two Mississippi, you know, all the way until you get to five to 10. Yeah. That extra amount of time is gonna help you to slow down and process not only your thoughts, but what you think is happening on the other end with your teen, with your child.
[00:25:30] What's going on over there? What are some of the other, mm-hmm. Possibilities here and making sure that that sharp tongue, that just comes out of stress or anxiety or misunderstanding or miscommunication or confusion or I don't know, or hurt to do. And that was, or hurt. Exactly. Yeah. It just gives that a little bit of time so that that sharp tongue doesn't, um, you know, do damage essentially.
[00:25:55] And then we, we just kind of center again inside of that, just five to 10 seconds minimum. Mm-hmm. How's that? Yeah, I would say 10. Let's
[00:26:03] Casey O'Roarty: just tell everyone to do 10, 10 seconds.
[00:26:14] And what I love about that too is it's something that, you know, for many of us, it's something that I encourage parents to do. Mm-hmm. When it's like, okay, I'm ready to change things up. I'm ready to shift the dynamic and do the work. Something that I wanna encourage everybody that's listening to remember to do too is.
[00:26:34] To this isn't a secret, like let your family in on it. Let them know like, you know what, I notice that I'm getting reactive so quick with you all. Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna start practicing doing something different. So I am gonna, there is gonna be a delay if I'm doing my practice, there is gonna be a delay.
[00:26:52] And if there's a delay, just know that's me coming down and really wanting to understand, to hear you and to show up. In a way that is help more helpful and less hurtful. Oh
[00:27:04] Aprile Andelle: yeah. For you.
[00:27:04] Casey O'Roarty: So I love encouraging parents to get everyone in on it.
[00:27:09] Aprile Andelle: Yeah. Yeah. It's just basic communication because you're doing it as a family unit.
[00:27:14] Yeah. And when you're open about it, then, you know, um, your kids are gonna see the struggle of how you move from, you know, difficulty to triumph. And that's, it's not easy for you either, but you're still there working hard at it.
[00:27:28] Casey O'Roarty: You're being right. And modeling that. That's modeling it. Yeah. Normalizing that emotional intelligence journey.
[00:27:34] Yeah. I love that.
[00:27:36] Aprile Andelle: Yes. And that it's not always smooth. Right. Is No, it certainly isn't.
[00:27:42] Casey O'Roarty: Not at all. That's so not always smooth. Not at all. Well, especially like the current context. It's just so weird. And the uncertainty, I mean, even though I definitely. Feel like there, you know, everything that's come up in the last year I feel like has been so important.
[00:28:01] Just the whole shakeup of things are not as they appear, so get it together humans. I appreciate it and I'm learning myself so much and listening and paying attention and, and I do believe that there's an opportunity to move through this time into a new normal that is way better. Than where we've come from, right?
[00:28:25] So not just like going back to what we used to know, but really moving forward into a time and space where, you know, life and people are just more valued. And that whole idea of mental health and mental wellbeing is held up as. Like, well, yeah, we all do it. Like I, mm-hmm. For me, I, I really push my clients and into this, I don't like the phrase self-care 'cause I feel like it just gets overused, but like, it's non-negotiable.
[00:29:00] So you saying, Hey, let's start with looking at our relationship with ourselves. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. If you're standing here saying, I wanna create something different in my family, I wanna change up the dynamics in my family, there's no. Shortcut that skips getting your shit together. That's correct.
[00:29:21] That
[00:29:21] Aprile Andelle: is
[00:29:22] Casey O'Roarty: correct.
[00:29:22] Aprile Andelle: And in fact, if there was a shortcut, that is the shortcut actually, right? Yeah. Yes, yes,
[00:29:27] Casey O'Roarty: yes. Exactly. You know exactly, you,
[00:29:29] Aprile Andelle: you handle you first. Everything else falls after that. I know it doesn't feel like that once again, that that feeling word, it doesn't feel like that in the moment.
[00:29:39] Mm-hmm. But it is absolutely true. And you see this more so over the long run. So, um. Uh, you know, I'm amazed with how. Moms are so incredibly, you know, in always in forethought, always thinking 5, 10, 15 moves and stuff. Oh, listen,
[00:29:57] Casey O'Roarty: I don't know that it always serves because I think sometimes that forethought takes us places that aren't necessarily mm-hmm.
[00:30:06] You know, if, if the forethoughts taking us to dead in a ditch, you know, like it's just not useful. This is even, you know, I mean as far as like navigating, like, what, what am I gonna make for dinner and did I pull the stuff out and like that kind of stuff. Yes. But I also think it can get us into some mischief if we're not paying attention.
[00:30:26] You
[00:30:26] Aprile Andelle: are absolutely right. There's always like this line drawn in the sand. If you cross over that line, you know?
[00:30:31] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. You, you know the light and the
[00:30:32] Aprile Andelle: dark. Yes. So, you know, so I, I'm, I'm always just very impressed by that. And I would just say to, to use it to, to your benefit. And if you know that you have crossed that line, which is, that's where you go back to your intuition, your Yeah.
[00:30:46] Your inner, um, voice.
[00:30:49] Mm-hmm.
[00:30:50] Aprile Andelle: Uh, your gut. When you know that it's too far, your too stretched, you are not feeling like yourself, then that's when you absolutely know that those are alarm bells, actually. Yeah. And it's time to
[00:31:01] Casey O'Roarty: slow down. So I'm guessing like those alarm bells going off and, and even when you said listening to that intuition and inner voice and you know, there's a lot of clutter that we collect over time internally that really mutes.
[00:31:22] And disconnects us to that inner voice. And so I'm wondering, I'm gonna circle back to the psychological spring cleaning. Talk to me a little bit more about the process and is that what it's about? Is it about kind of cleaning up that clutter so that we can be with our highest selves, our inner voice, our intuition in a more meaningful way?
[00:31:44] Absolutely. And.
[00:31:46] Aprile Andelle: So much of it is, I, I recognize is, is even before the pandemic, this was something that we always needed to do for sure. Yeah. But we, I don't know if there was ever really a practice, unless you're really good with that. Sitting down, reflecting, you know the people who have the journals journal.
[00:32:03] Oh girl, that's
[00:32:04] Casey O'Roarty: me. I love it with you. I'm really impressed by you.
[00:32:07] Aprile Andelle: Most
[00:32:08] Casey O'Roarty: days, some
[00:32:08] Aprile Andelle: days. In weeks where I don't, I'm usually in a park with trees and green stuff all around me. Yeah. I love it. Um, the journals and so whatever floats your boat that, but I've been reading a lot of research lately, a lot of research and, and, um, bear with me, the research is saying that there's somewhere around 63%.
[00:32:30] Of parents that felt that they had lost emotional support during the pandemic. And that's a, um, I think it was the Rapid EC projects, um, that did that up in the Northeast, 63% of their population. And so I took it upon myself and I was just going through my clients and I kind of did my own. Survey and, uh, the things that I found were just stunning.
[00:32:57] It was so surprising. Um, these are women between their thirties and their forties, and they have, are both they're parents or they're not parents and mm-hmm. You find that a lot of them are very similar. These things that clutter up their mind are, you know, fear of failure. Body image is still there, still present as you get older.
[00:33:17] The aspects of feeling real, true, romantic love. Mm-hmm. There and still being still a major want. Being paralyzed by lack. What you feel you do not have resource to was another one. I had a client mention it as, it's like I always feel. That there are so many missing pieces. Um, reinforced voices of doubt.
[00:33:45] Reinforced meaning that there is a doubt and then you come in with your own mind and messages.
[00:33:53] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:33:53] Aprile Andelle: That further sustain those thoughts. Um, lots of imposter syndromes. Another study was also reported how, um, I think it was CNN last year, last fall, where they were saying that there was some 617,000 women that had actually left the workforce.
[00:34:11] Imagine the intentional effect it has on you. Yeah, and these are women, thirties and forties. This is prime years for career. And they've lost this purpose, this kind of meaning, you know, that, um, righted them had a big part of their day and who they were along with, you know, family and their relationships.
[00:34:30] So it's, it's a big thing and. Fear and anxiety over everything because everything is unknown. So
[00:34:38] yeah,
[00:34:38] Aprile Andelle: there's a lot of correlation. And then you go in deeper, am I enough? Am I doing the right things? Will I be okay? Will my family be okay? Will my child make it? Will we both make, will we all make it through this?
[00:34:53] All those things become this constant recurring message that I keep seeing whenever I, I'm just, you know, checking in with my clients.
[00:35:00] Casey O'Roarty: Alot of that resonates with me too and the, the community that I hold and the space that I hold for parents. Those are the questions and the worries and the fears, and.
[00:35:10] And something that I, and you know, April, I don't know if you know this about me, but the pandemic, um, in my family also came with my husband being diagnosed with cancer. So a year ago. Wow. He had this massive spine surgery and. Quickly followed by a diagnosis of multiple myeloma. So we had pandemic and we had dads in cancer treatment and he, you know, as of today, he is totally cancer free.
[00:35:42] And, you know, it's not a back to normal, but it's a forward into, you know, what life looks like now. Um. You know, I had a lot of, you know, along the way I've been sharing pretty candidly and openly with my community, and I get a lot of feedback around how strong I am and how optimistic I am and how courageous I am.
[00:36:04] And I just, and part of me is, you know, I, I take the feedback. I, I'm grateful for the acknowledgement. But the other part of me is like, well, God, what's the alternative? Like, I'm not, I, I can't live day to day in a place where I am dooming and glooming. What I don't know is gonna be a potential outcome.
[00:36:25] Right? And so,
[00:36:26] mm-hmm.
[00:36:27] Casey O'Roarty: And this is something that I try to support my clients with as well is you know, that that whole like be in the present moment. Meaning like be with what is in your control and in your power right now. And then surrender to the idea that you don't know. There was actually a mom that posted in my community.
[00:36:45] Recently about her son, who is a senior in high school and you know, is, is having a really hard time and they're not sure that he's gonna graduate and, and they can't get him a good therapist. And I loved one of the commenters from the community also said, you know. There are so many different stories of success and you have no idea what your son's story is going to be.
[00:37:11] Hmm. And so just being inside of the of possibility versus like drowning by the uncertainty, like, that's where I wanna live. I wanna be like. Swimming in the, in the possibility because we don't know. We don't know. Yeah. The, the worst thing possible could happen, but so could the best thing possible, so, right.
[00:37:33] Yeah. That was a kind of a tangent. I dunno
[00:37:35] Aprile Andelle: where I was going. That was a great tangent. And Casey, may I just say I've, I've heard bits and pieces. I'm, I'm been what I've been listening to like the later part of your shows. Um, okay. So. Hearing it in full right now, um mm-hmm. You know? Wow. And hallelujah.
[00:37:53] Hallelujah. Yeah. Hallelujah. Yeah, for real. You know, give him a hug for me. You know? I will. I, I just, I it is, you, you had a pandemic on top of a pandemic mm-hmm. What I would call that, and I can't imagine what that must have been. Um, but that process. Of processing the fact that you had different tiers of crisis.
[00:38:17] Yeah, different tiers of emotional response because you have different tiers of people inside of this family system. It must have been absolutely overwhelming and there are moments and times for that too. But I'm gonna circle back once again and say that as soon as you figure out how you need to show up.
[00:38:40] In a particular time and place, what is going to be the best one? And I know that takes time sometimes. Mm-hmm. Um, it's sometimes hard to be retrospective and be like, okay, like, uh, this is what's happening. If I were to go a week from today or even a day from today, how would I want to be in this moment?
[00:39:00] Mm-hmm.
[00:39:00] Aprile Andelle: So that you don't regret anything, so that you are taking full notice of things so that you've slowed down so that you've been present. So that you've offered support, you've offered kind words and you know, held back and you sharp tongue, you know, all those things. Yeah.
[00:39:14] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and I love thinking about like, who do I wanna be through this process? Right. Right. You know, and whether it's my story or you know, like I said, my people are parents of teenagers, so like, who do you wanna be? Your teens are gonna bring all the typical things that teens bring because that's developmentally appropriate.
[00:39:39] Right. Who do you wanna be? Mm-hmm. For them and for yourself as you navigate it. Brilliant. I know you teach your clients amazing. That that is a gem
[00:39:51] Aprile Andelle: right there. Yeah. That is a gem.
[00:39:53] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and it's, and it's practice. It takes practice. Mm-hmm. Right? And that's what you're talking about. That's spring cleaning and the practices that have supported you, right?
[00:40:03] Yes, yes. This, and there's
[00:40:04] Aprile Andelle: three steps. It's, it's really great. Yeah. Really simple. The three steps, um, it begins with mind dumping. And I love this part, but it's also the scary part too, because you have to dig deep here. If I tell it to you right now, you're gonna be more shallow as opposed to when you're working with somebody and they're telling you it's, it's deeper than that.
[00:40:26] But in, in essence, you start out and, um, what are your fears and your worries. Oh, I should preface that by saying hopefully you do have that journal or that piece of paper or you know, some book, something meaningful that you can write these things down into. And I encourage writing visceral with pen and paper of some sort because it has to be a process of flow and you're writing down what keeps you up at night, what are your fears, what are the worries?
[00:40:58] What are the messages that you tell yourself when you make mistake? What are the thoughts of yesteryear? Of the coulda? Shoulda would've. What are the things that you were like, I, I, I should have been so much further than here, right? Mm-hmm. Or, what are the comparisons that you have made for yourself to somebody else that are not growing you?
[00:41:22] Not when you're admiring somebody and trying to reach their level in aspiration or inspiration, but when you're comparing yourself and then putting yourself down, all of those things, the worries. The fears, the comparisons, the negative thoughts and messages, what you tell yourself in the deep, dark moments.
[00:41:43] Those things all have to come out. Yeah. Release. Release every single one of them, and that's why it takes time and it takes. A, a significant amount of courage as well, because you have to actually say them out loud. You have to acknowledge them. I don't want you to keep them. Um, so it's kind of hard because when I'm working with a client, I am actually writing down that message.
[00:42:07] I don't want them to pull it out into the universe. But it's different when it's, it's being taught. You write it down to acknowledge it.
[00:42:15] Mm-hmm.
[00:42:16] Aprile Andelle: You write it down to see it in black and white, and then along that way you are looking and recognizing is this how a best friend would speak to you? Would, would your best friend say this?
[00:42:29] Right? No. No. Would your spouse
[00:42:34] Casey O'Roarty: say this to you? Hopefully not in relationship. Right? Yeah. If so, we have another podcast discussed. Right? Right. Exactly.
[00:42:43] Aprile Andelle: Hey, you just go down the list of all the loved ones, right? And then you also go down the list of what is the evidence of the contrary. Right? And you work really hard to cross all those things out once they've been recognized.
[00:42:54] And I know that sounds very woo. But I'm telling you, it, it, oh, they, my people are cool with that. They're woo. Okay. Oh, yeah. All
[00:43:01] Casey O'Roarty: right. People, I mean, if they're not, then they, I don't know why they keep listening to me. 'cause I am,
[00:43:06] Aprile Andelle: I know I'm woo, I'm a psychotherapist and, but this stuff works. Yes. I love it.
[00:43:10] It's meaningful. Yes, exactly. That's just step one. That's just the mind dump. And it takes so much courage and, and bravery to do this. So I often channel Brene Brown, she's talking about, hmm. Listen, your vulnerability is what makes you brave. Your vulnerability, and you putting the light to the shame that you feel, that's what's going to heal you.
[00:43:34] Yeah. That's where you're going to find your strength. So bring it out already. I love Brene. It's just very uh, me too. Very frank, so I channeled their her throughout that, that exercise. The, the second piece of it is to go through and to declutter. Mm-hmm.
[00:43:53] Casey O'Roarty: What does not work anymore? Like looking at the mind dump.
[00:43:57] Oh yeah. You look at the mind using it. Okay. So it's, yeah. And I love, I just wanna, before we get into decluttering, I really appreciate, um, looking for evidence for the contrary. And so I just want everyone to understand like. What that means. Ah. Um, 'cause it's so power, it's such a powerful exercise that I want you to kind of make sure that you land it.
[00:44:21] So when
[00:44:22] Aprile Andelle: that's happening and you're, you, you have certain messages of yourself, for example. I, uh, I, I'm always right, like even just, I'm a terrible mom. Right. I always yell at my kids. Exactly. Do your kids who are hanging on your arm with you right now looking all lovey dovey up at you, are they going to say that same thing, that you are a terrible mom all the time?
[00:44:46] Casey O'Roarty: Oh, I'm laughing because I'm thinking that the parents of teenagers wouldn't care what their teens were saying if they were hanging on their arms right now. But you're right. Yeah. Like I, yes, correct. Mm-hmm. You know, the evidence is contrary and the things that we do for our family. Yeah. Fly in the face of the, some of the self-talk that we.
[00:45:07] Hold as truth about ourselves. Yeah, I love that. I
[00:45:10] Aprile Andelle: know every now and then you get a thank you. Uh, you know? Yeah, I know. Every now and then it happens. You get a big smile, smile in their parents, hang in there, it happens. Hang in there. You know? And those are the contrary moments that you have to remember.
[00:45:25] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:45:25] Aprile Andelle: Um, okay. Step two. Mm-hmm. Declutter. Yep. Decluttering. Um, what's the, what are those things on that list? What are the confidence killers? What are the coulda should have? What's that? You get out and what also is misaligned to who you are today? And this past year has definitely taught us that. So your same coping strategies may or may not work from your coping strategies a year ago, right?
[00:45:48] And it's the same thing with who you are today, may or may not work with who you were last year or 10 years ago. If you're still holding onto the dream from 10 years ago, does that still fit with who you are today? If not, you gotta cross it out and that's okay. And you do, I I like to do Marie Kondo through this.
[00:46:07] That's who I channel. Yeah. I like it. It doesn't spread Marie. There we go. We've got a whole team. I love it. There we go. Yeah. So Declutter, fades is all throughout that and it's fun. That one's fun. Half the time people realize that everything gets crossed out just about. Yay. Right. Um, the final step is the shine.
[00:46:26] Hmm.
[00:46:26] Aprile Andelle: Shine is making sure that you focus on what brings you joy, what brings you peace, what brings you that mental wellness? What keeps you in the present to enjoy life? And these things are where you're doing a lot of, instead, I call them instead because instead of what you are were doing that wasn't helpful or you were thinking that wasn't supportive or.
[00:46:48] Kind or productive, what are you doing instead? And one of those things is making sure that you're self-coaching yourself with what I call power affirmations. These affirmations are not just, I'm going to be okay, but they have to be strong enough to cover, I am such a terrible mom.
[00:47:06] Mm-hmm.
[00:47:06] Aprile Andelle: They have to be large enough to cover that over.
[00:47:09] Mm-hmm. So they have to be a powerful affirmation, you know? Mm-hmm. I am. Uh, an amazing mother because of, um, A, B, or C.
[00:47:24] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. I'm a kick ass mom. I show up. Yeah. Show up every day. I show up every day wanting to be in relationship and taking care of my family. Mm-hmm. Even if they're not. Showing up. Well, for us moms and dads, like, I think that that's not, that's kind of the work, right?
[00:47:43] Is it's letting go of the external. I mean, you know, in certain contexts, of course the external is giving you feedback about how you're showing up. But the teen years are these really unique, weird times where we can't necessarily judge ourselves by how you know, oh yes, these adolescents are. Moving through their experience, you know?
[00:48:07] And that's really hard. That's much harder than I ever realized it would be until I actually was parenting. Mm-hmm. Teens. But you know, it's an inside job right now in parenting. This, this period of time is such an inside job as far as like, and like God, they're being little shits and I'm gonna show up.
[00:48:30] Like this, right, right. I'm gonna keep knocking on the door and telling them that I love them and going in for the hug. Even as she, I mean, my daughter was like, like had perfected this move, this like pivot slideaway move. Anytime. I went to try to touch her for a while and it. I mean mm-hmm. Broke my, it kills me, but I didn't stop trying.
[00:48:54] Right. I didn't stop trying.
[00:48:55] Aprile Andelle: And you have to make sure that you are reminding yourself and coaching yourself through those moments. Yeah. That this is why I'm doing this. Yeah. This is why I'm doing this. I'm a great mom. I'm gonna be there for her. I'm gonna, I'm gonna show up every single time that she gives me that look.
[00:49:08] And she does that move every single time. Yeah. And you just, you just move through it. The thing is, it's gonna leave you stronger on the other end. It's hard to do. Yeah. But you do it. And you also give yourself grace during this time. You practice really positive coping skills. You nurture your relationships.
[00:49:26] Yeah. And you, you just, you recommit to these dream goals that you have for yourself, your family, and your loved ones. You recommit.
[00:49:34] Casey O'Roarty: You know what, like I talk a lot about the teens. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about the parents because it's just, okay. So, you know, it's just, it's really where the work is and, and my husband and I went to couples therapy as my daughter was just moving into high school.
[00:49:48] Mm-hmm. And I will never forget her saying like, right now. The most important thing you can do for your teenagers is to get a life and work on your relationship. And that really stuck with me 'cause I think it's really easy and maybe because of the pandemic and us all being underfoot all the time, maybe it's now part of the problem is that we just are too, we're too close physically to everybody in our family right now.
[00:50:15] And so it's really easy to get. A little overly obsessed about what everyone's doing. I can't, you know, not me. Just kidding. Not you, never, you, Nope. But I want, I want, as we wrap this up, I want you to talk a little bit about. It's because I know that people are curious for more and wanna know more about you.
[00:50:36] I was gonna have you guide us through a grounding, you have this great blog post about the mindful morning routine, but we're not gonna be able to do that. So I want you to just tell my people where they can find you and, and all the ways that you offer support. Oh, absolutely.
[00:50:52] Aprile Andelle: And. All of your listeners are more than welcome.
[00:50:55] Anytime I can be of support. So right now, I [email protected]. It's just my name.com.
[00:51:04] Casey O'Roarty: Awesome. Well, and I always complete my interviews with this question, what does joyful courage mean to you, Dr. Andel?
[00:51:13] Aprile Andelle: Ooh. Oh, that's such a wonderful question. Joyful courage to me. It means being able to experience every single day, me authentically doing exactly what brings me joy and um, whether I have courage or not.
[00:51:33] Right? Hmm. Yeah. Whether I have courage or not, I'm going to step into it because on the other side of that, there is joy. And I would love that. Oh, and lots of green stuff and water and all the kids drink your water, pets, and, you know, all those things. So, joyful courage, and I think it's just living in a really authentic life that, um, leaves you with joy behind.
[00:51:57] Casey O'Roarty: Beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for all your time. It's been so great to get to know you and to have this conversation.
[00:52:06] Aprile Andelle: Likewise, and to your listeners, um, well wishes to each and every one of you. You're stronger than you think. Remember Georgia Dare said everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear, so just move through it.
[00:52:18] You're gonna be better for it, and you guys are amazing. Just, just as you are. Yes.
[00:52:27] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good as I mentioned. Sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:52:54] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay connected at besproutable.com. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.