Eps 594: Queer Parenthood & Raising Resilient Teens with Jaimie Kelton

“… to have the courage to do the thing and to do it with joy…  to find the joy a finding the courage to do the dang thing in the first place, that’s joyful courage to me.” – Jaimie Kelton

Where to find Jaimie:

Website: www.thequeerfamilypodcast.com
IG: @jaimiekelton @thequeerfamilypodcast

Resources mentioned:

Eps 495: Showing up for our LGBTQIA+ kids with Ed Center and Jaimie Kelton

Transcription

JC Ep 594 (7.28.25) - Final
[00:00:00] Casey O'Roarty: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Joyful Courage Podcast. This is a place where parents of tweens and teens come to find inspiration, information, and encouragement in the messy terrain of adolescents this season of parenting. Is no joke. And while the details of what we're all moving through might be slightly different, we are indeed having a very collective experience.
[00:00:30] This is a space where we center building, relationship, nurturing life skills, and leaning into our own personal growth and man. The opportunities abound, right. My name is Casey Ody. I am a parent coach, positive discipline lead trainer, and captain of the adolescent ship over at Sprout Bowl. I'm also a speaker and a published author.
[00:00:53] I've been working with parents and families for over 20 years. And continue to navigate my own experience of being a mom with my two young adult kids. I'm so honored that you're here and listening. Please give back to the podcast by sharing it with friends or on social media rate and review us on Apple or Spotify.
[00:01:13] Word of mouth is how we grow. Thank you so, so much. Enjoy the show.
[00:01:23] All right. Hi, listeners. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm really excited to let you in on who my guest is today. Jamie Kelton is joining me again here on the show. Jamie is the founder, producer, and host of the Queer Family Podcast, a show all about family, but with Gay. The Queer Family Podcast is the go-to show for anyone curious about how.
[00:01:48] LGBTQ plus families are built. She tells the stories of queer families loudly, proudly, and unapologetically and beyond just the work of making families. Jamie and friends are navigating what it means to parent in a world that doesn't always make sense. Four queer families showing up, pushing back, and raising the next generation with pride.
[00:02:11] Jamie has had candid chats with queer icons like Rosie O'Donnell and Sean T, and her work has been spotlighted in Forbes, cosmopolitan, and more. With multiple Signal Awards, two People's Choice podcast awards and two Anthem awards under its belt. The Queer Family Podcast is a proof that queer families aren't just valid.
[00:02:32] They are extraordinary. Welcome back to the show, Jamie. I'm so glad that you're here.
[00:02:37] Jaimie Kelton: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Um, it sounds so official when you read it out like that. I love that. I don't know who wrote that, but it's amazing.
[00:02:44] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, there you go. How about that? It's especially interesting when it's a live thing and you're about to get on an actual stage in front of the people listening to somebody read your bio, so Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:54] I'm familiar with It's amazing that, so you were on a year ago with our friend Ed center and we talked about different things having to do with raising queer kids and the experience of coming out. But today it's just you and me, and I would love for you to start by hearing your story more about your story, what your family looks like, and how your journey into queer Parenthood has shaped your understanding of.
[00:03:19] Just connection and belonging.
[00:03:21] Jaimie Kelton: Uh, so I, uh, live in Manhattan with, uh, my wife and our two kids. We have an 11-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son. My wife gave birth to our daughter and with her womb, and I gave birth to my son. With my womb. These are things you have to clarify in queer families because it's not a given how?
[00:03:43] Whose womb? Yeah. Whose body, you know? So these are some of the things we talk about on the show. So I guess how Queer Parenthood has like kind of shaped. Me and my sense of community, I, you kind of have to go back to like my trying to get pregnant story because that's really where it all is. Mm-hmm. And, uh, my wife went first 'cause she's a little older, so, and we both knew that we wanted to carry, and we both knew that we wanted a biological connection, which is not always the case in same sex couples.
[00:04:12] It's, you know, they have to have lots of conversations. But we both knew we wanted to carry, so she went first. She had it. Relatively easy conception journey, no issues. And then when it came my turn, I was young, so we figured I was just gonna get quickly, magically pregnant. I mean, not magically. 'cause obviously it can't be magic or accidental, but you know, in a, in a fertility center and with the doctors and all the things, and it took forever.
[00:04:36] I had unexplained infertility. And it took me almost three years to get pregnant with our son. And through that time, you know, as you do when you're experiencing infertility, I started to feel rather lonely and I started looking to hear my story mirrored, um, in other people's stories. And I had just recently discovered podcasts and so I.
[00:04:59] Figured, oh my God, there's a podcast about everything. And this was like nine years ago at this point. Um, uh, and, uh, I figured somebody must have made a podcast about a lesbian trying to get pregnant and nope, that didn't exist. All I found were like fertility podcasts that were really, um, straight centered, which you know of, of course there's a huge audience for that.
[00:05:19] I get it. I get it, but it wasn't giving me what I needed. Yeah. And so I kept thinking to myself, somebody needs to create this. Podcast, somebody needs to create a show so that we can hear our stories mirrored back to us because it's so cathartic. Mm-hmm.
[00:05:34] Music: To
[00:05:35] Jaimie Kelton: hear yourself mirrored. And then finally, I realized when I was like seven months pregnant, oh.
[00:05:40] I should create that show. Um, and so I created the show and that's where I really developed this huge sense of community and how important it is, especially for the qua community, as I like to call us, to make it sound fancy. Mm-hmm. You know, chosen family's a huge thing. And, um, not only that, but in order to create our families.
[00:06:01] It takes a village. In most cases. There are very few like accidental pregnancies in the queer community. There are one or two here and there. Um, but for the most part, we have to use a lot of help to create our families and a lot of, um, outsiders have to come in to help us make, make the families that we've dreamed of having.
[00:06:20] And so community, I've come to learn after having three over 300 interviews with queer families. Um, community is. Everything. Mm-hmm. And we really have to learn to rely on our people, be they the people that are helping us conceive our kids, or the people who are helping us parent our kids. Um, or the people who just take us out for drinks to help us vent about our kids.
[00:06:43] You know, community is everything. And it really, really has been amplified to me just by all the people I talk to on the show.
[00:06:50] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in my audience are parents of teenagers and I had, you know, there's some similarities in, in the story of how I niched into that, which was, it got really hard.
[00:07:04] Yeah. And I felt like no one's talking about how hard it is in the teen years and oh my God, have I been duped? By positive discipline, like I'm a trainer for this. I don't know what I'm supposed to do here with a kid that's going off the rails. And so like similar to you, it's like, okay, I need to create the conversations that I wanna be having.
[00:07:24] Which center? Just the messiness. Of adolescent season. Yeah, the truth. The truth. Yeah. Yeah, the truth. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And there is that feeling that we all have regardless of the details around, you know, feeling solid when we have that sense of. Significance and belonging and just hearing you talk about the communities that you're serving and a part of, like, you know, you all really get that, that we get to create it.
[00:07:59] Mm-hmm. And, you know, as we come up in our families that equally is important to centered. So, you know, when you think about, and I, I'm is, is are blended families a, a common occurrence in, um. Lizabeth Tewa.
[00:08:16] Jaimie Kelton: I love that you did that so well. Yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Um, uh, yeah, they are actually shock, uh, like shockingly, but not shockingly.
[00:08:23] Mm-hmm. Um, we come in so many shapes and sizes and identities, but also, you know, divorce happens to everyone. Yeah. And also. People come out later in life. Right. So, so a lot, I've spoken to so many folks who already have a family, like, uh, you know, the dream, A husband, a wife, and a couple of kids. Yeah. The, the,
[00:08:42] Casey O'Roarty: yeah.
[00:08:43] The
[00:08:43] Jaimie Kelton: American
[00:08:44] Casey O'Roarty: dream. Yeah.
[00:08:44] Jaimie Kelton: Right. And then realize, oh wait, that craving's not going away. So they come out. Yeah. And then they end up meeting some, so blended families happen all the time in the queer community. They really actually do. And then chosen family is a huge thing too. Mm-hmm. So,
[00:09:01] Casey O'Roarty: yeah. Do you feel like because of the over, like because of the extra layer of being considered a marginalized community, that you come into parenting and parenthood with a stronger desire to make sure that everyone feels that message of you belong here?
[00:09:21] Well, I just mean in your parenting, like is there this extra drive to make sure that your kiddos, because I think. You know when things get really messy during the adolescent season, I think one of the biggest hurdles is teenagers not feeling seen and accepted for who they are in the moment by their parents.
[00:09:40] And I wonder having your own experience of, you know, acceptance, is that something that becomes like a hyperfocus in a queer family?
[00:09:51] Jaimie Kelton: I think definitely. I think it's my, I can speak for my family, like definitely I'm, you know, we definitely raise them. With the knowledge that they will be accepted no matter what.
[00:10:03] And it's like kind of shoved down their throat a little bit and to the point where like, my daughter's 11, even my son's over it. Um, and he's seven. But like, okay, mom, I know, okay, it's fine. If I'm a lesbian, it's cool if I'm not, it's cool. Like, it's fine. Yeah. Like they, they get annoyed. Um, and I've also learned, because I, I have all the books about identity and I have all the books about healthy sexuality.
[00:10:26] I have all this. Stuff, right? That are all for the right age for each, each stage of age. And I pull 'em down, Hey, let's read this tonight. You know, both my kids are so over it actually. And now that my daughter is a tween, she's 11 going on 18. Um, I've got you. Yeah, she is, she's really pushing back like, mom, you don't need, like, I've had to actually like s.
[00:10:53] Uh, pump on the brakes a little bit with my inclusion model and my openness to everything. And a Let's talk about sex. Let's talk. Oh, you, so you have a boyfriend. Well, let's, she's like, done, done, mom. I'm, it's too much. Mm-hmm. I'm, it's too much. Or like, when she has like a paper at school, um, like she, I, I might have told you this story, but she had a, she was starting a new school.
[00:11:16] Middle school and they wanted them to write like a letter to another classmate about kind of who they are and something interesting about them. And she put like, I like dogs and I like pizza. Like, she just put like really like bland stuff. And then I was like, you know, you do have something that's very special about you.
[00:11:36] You know, wink, wink. She was like, oh my god, mom, no. I'm not doing that. Like, stop, you're shoving it down my throat. I'm done. She was like, I want them to find that out on their own. Mm-hmm. It has to come up organically. And then I was like, okay, maybe it's time for this mom to pump the brakes a bit. So, yeah.
[00:11:52] Oh my
[00:11:52] Casey O'Roarty: gosh. Yeah. So relatable. My son, you know, I tried to work really hard to use the word partner rather than boyfriend or girlfriend or mm-hmm. Husband or wife. And there, yeah. There finally came a day where my son, Ian was like, Hey mom, I'm straight. Like, I'm like, okay, okay. But you know, regardless. And he is like, no, it's, you know, regardless, I'm telling you.
[00:12:14] You know? And same with like, I got really worked up around the consent conversation and yeah. Leaned in hard and he was like, Hey mom, I'm not gonna rape anybody. You
[00:12:26] Jaimie Kelton: know?
[00:12:27] Casey O'Roarty: It's
[00:12:27] Jaimie Kelton: like, oh, sorry. I know. But that, I feel like that's how you know you're doing it well. Yeah. Right. I feel like, I think so. Like I know that I really am doing the work when they push back at me and are like, okay mom, I'm done.
[00:12:40] I get it. I wanna read the book about pride. I get it. It's fine. We're done. I get it. Yes. Rainbows. Yay. Okay. Can I go play with my friend? You know what I mean? Like, so Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:52] Casey O'Roarty: So. I love. That's so funny. I love that. And I think, you know, regardless of what the overarching theme is, you know, we're all just trying to do the best we can by our kids, right?
[00:13:02] Yeah. And make sure that they really, you know, are feeling that love and acceptance and, and sometimes it's, you know, we don't even realize the places where the line is for us, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's always interesting too. Like, oh, I thought I was really. You know, kid centered and I trust you to design your experience.
[00:13:23] And then I've got a kiddo that's saying, I gotta drop outta high school 'cause it's not working for me. And I realized, oh. Yeah. I'm really attached to this narrative of you finishing high school, and so it's always so interesting I think when the things that maybe aren't even on our radar.
[00:13:38] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah.
[00:13:39] Casey O'Roarty: Show up in our face.
[00:13:40] Jaimie Kelton: They teach you a lot these kids. Yeah. Yeah. They teach you a lot about the things you really are hung up on and you don't even realize it. The things that you, that you care to care about deep down, that you're even afraid to admit to yourself.
[00:13:53] Casey O'Roarty: Honestly. Yeah.
[00:13:54] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. When you
[00:13:56] Casey O'Roarty: think about being a parent of a queer household, and you talked about seeing yourself in the conversations that you were listening to or not seeing yourself, what do you, what are some of the unique joys that you get to experience because of queer parenthood that.
[00:14:11] Might not be apparent to people that are outside of that community.
[00:14:15] Jaimie Kelton: I think for me, um, and I think this is actually for many, uh, couples who have kids, I have the unique experience of both getting to be a bio parent and a non-bio parent to two children who are being raised in the same household. And I think that that is really.
[00:14:39] A special joy and I feel like I'm getting like a real layer of life that I, that I wouldn't get if I didn't have this non-bio experience. It's opened my eyes to many things that. My eyes wouldn't have been opened up to before that. What I've learned is it doesn't matter the bio connection, which took me a long time to realize, I guess, you know, and I think a lot of people know that inherently, but I thought it might matter.
[00:15:07] And you know, the fears that I had when my daughter was gonna be born and I wasn't gonna have a bio connection. All of that is really valid and real. And many people, um, experience that fear, but I would've never even known that fear had I not gone down that path. Mm-hmm. So I've considered that a gift. Um, and to see the ways she's growing into someone who's actually very like me and also.
[00:15:32] Very much not like me. Mm-hmm. You know, and to see that, I just think it's a layer, um, that I wouldn't have had otherwise. Mm-hmm. I'm not saying it's better, I'm just saying it's an extra layer.
[00:15:44] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. That
[00:15:45] Jaimie Kelton: I wouldn't have experienced.
[00:15:47] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. I was raised in a hou, in a blended family household with stepparents and half siblings and.
[00:15:54] And it was always interesting to me when people wanted to comment on, well, that's your stepmom or that's your half sister. Right. And to me it was just, no, she's just another mom. Believe me. Mm-hmm. She's just another mom. You know, all the good and all the hard and, and finding where her conditioning has influenced me and the places where I get to grow through some of what I've carried on from those early years, I think.
[00:16:19] Yeah, that. Nature nurture conversation is such an interesting one to have. It's for sure. What, what has been surprising about the non-bio? I mean, other than, you know, the, I feel the same kind of connection. What else has been surprising to you?
[00:16:35] Jaimie Kelton: I mean, so many things. Like my son who I did give birth to is a, is very much not like me actually, and actually pushes back against all the things that.
[00:16:46] Make me me, which is kind of funny. It's a good time. Yeah. Yeah. Not the exact, not a good time. Exactly. You are correct. And it's baffling.
[00:16:57] Music: Mm-hmm. Um,
[00:16:58] Jaimie Kelton: and then like my daughter, like, um, we look alike, me and my daughter, and so. We'll be walking down the street and people will be like, oh, if you two aren't the spitting image of each other, my God.
[00:17:10] Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? The dad must have really weak jeans. And my wife, my daughter and I like, just share a little wink and a glance. Like we have that special thing where we're like, ha ha. Like one time we were, um, somewhere and she must have been like. Six or five and, and this older woman was sitting next to us and said, well, you two are just mirrors of each other.
[00:17:36] What an amazing resemblance. And my daughter goes, that's funny 'cause she didn't born me. It's just a fun thing that we have that is special and unique to us. And I, and I absolutely love it. Yeah. Um, and then she's so much like my wife. She's super athletic, um, and that she's grown into that. But she also loves to do a lot of the things I.
[00:18:02] Uh, do. Um, and so I see that I'm seeping into her and it makes me happy. Hopefully I can seep into my son at some point, but I don't know. That sounds, that sounded gross, but you know what I mean. That sounded I do know what you mean not Okay. I do know what
[00:18:14] Casey O'Roarty: you mean.
[00:18:15] Jaimie Kelton: I do know what
[00:18:15] Casey O'Roarty: you mean. We'll move on from that comment.
[00:18:17] Yeah.
[00:18:18] Music: Well, yeah. Yeah.
[00:18:29] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and I think that probably most of my listeners can imagine kind of some of the surface level hard things about being a queer family. But I'm wondering for you, what have you experienced as some of the harder moments being a queer family? What gets in the way of, of your experience
[00:18:51] Jaimie Kelton: there? Well. Well, I think there's the surface stuff like, you know, if we go to a a different town.
[00:18:58] Do we have to hide a little bit? Are we, how accepted are we gonna be? Do we have to, you know, let people believe we're sisters here, so there's that, and I think everybody can kind of imagine. And is
[00:19:09] Casey O'Roarty: that always kind of playing Uhhuh?
[00:19:11] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah, 100%. 100%. If we go to a town that we don't know, uh. That we don't know, like if we're not in our liberal New York City bubble.
[00:19:21] So any town, um, come over to Bellingham. Yeah, it's very friendly over here. Yes, I've heard that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but you know, yeah, it's always just this undercurrent. Yeah. For, for sure. And depending on what town we're in, it can be a much stronger Yeah. Undercurrent current. And I hope my kids don't feel it, but I don't really know if they feel it or not.
[00:19:40] That's probably a conversation I should have with them, but I need to like pull back a little bit. I'm learning, so I'm trying not to. But then also something that is more just internal to me is the fact, even in my liberal city, um, I do feel like I am constantly. Like the, the mom who's pushing the boundaries and saying, and bringing the other, um, perspective into play.
[00:20:09] And you know, like I feel like the squeaky wheel and I feel like I annoy people sometimes because I am, it's like my mission to make sure people know, oh, we're not all, you know, this. Normal family, so to speak. Some of us have two moms, some of us don't have a dad, and I'm always having to like throw that into conversation because it's like my mission and I feel I have a lot of anxiety over that, that people are like behind closed doors.
[00:20:35] Oh my god, Jamie with her pink hair comes back and she's always bringing in another perspective and it's annoying. Like I'm always calling out the husbands for not being at the PTA like. You know, I'm just
[00:20:46] Music: mm-hmm.
[00:20:47] Jaimie Kelton: Calling out the heteronormativity all the time. Um, and I guess I don't have to do that, but I think it's just my personality and then I feel anxiety over being this, um, pushy, squeaky wheel person.
[00:21:00] Casey O'Roarty: Well, and so next weekend I'm gonna be in Dallas and running a, a conference for positive discipline educators and trainers. In one of the mornings we're gonna talk about belonging through equity and inclusion. And I'm gonna lead an activity. And there's a bunch of different statements that are problematic, statements that are thrown out all the time, which includes why do you gotta make a big deal out of everything?
[00:21:22] Right. Which is so dismissive, because I'm guessing, Jamie, you would much rather live in a world where you didn't have to make a big deal about everything. Yeah, exactly. Right. And the idea that for those of us that are cis, straight, white, middle class, you know. Like there's the water that we swim in is for us, right?
[00:21:44] And so we don't see the problematic pieces until they're literally pointed out. So thank you for your service and you know, yeah, I think it's so important. And it shouldn't just be you. Speaking up for, for those things either,
[00:22:02] Jaimie Kelton: well, to that point, all those, the cis hat, white, you know, I check a lot of the boxes.
[00:22:08] Yeah. A lot of the, I'm gonna do quote unquote normal air. We breathe boxes. Privileged. Yeah. Yes. The privileged boxes. So. I do feel also, so why do I have to make a big deal outta it? It's like I feel like I have to because I have the privilege to do so. Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, but yeah, we need more people to.
[00:22:29] Make a big deal out of these silly little things that really don't matter, but do. Yeah, but do, yeah. They matter for our kids, you know?
[00:22:37] Casey O'Roarty: So tell me more. Like, so I'm trying to think, I have all these questions written for you, but I, I ultimately, as I'm talking to you, Jamie, like what do you want to talk about?
[00:22:46] What do you wanna let parents know about your work and your family and your experience of parenting? Because. You know, for me, I feel really grateful that I can open up my platform to the guests that I have on, and my guess is that the majority of people that are listening to my show fall into like that hetero.
[00:23:11] You know, normative family system, although there's probably some deviation here and there. Mm-hmm. And I, uh, you know, I feel like these kinds of conversations are important for this audience because of the water that we swim in. Right. So what are some things that you would wanna kind of shine a light on right now from my audience that would be useful to know and help us be better allies and better supporters and better friends?
[00:23:38] To our people, the people in the world that are. Queer families.
[00:23:43] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. I love that. I love that question. I think that a, like the most obvious thing is we're just like, you, we're just, it just, we have like certain little nuance things that are different, but I'm still yelling at my kids to get out the door when we're 10 minutes late for school.
[00:23:57] You know, we're the, we're the same and we're dealing with the same issues for the most part. Um, but to kind of your point, and I think what you're thinking is, um, like these conversations that I have on my show about. Queer family building and, and queer parenting and just showing up in the world. They're not just for queer people.
[00:24:17] Mm-hmm. Anybody can tune in and learn a lot from these conversations, and they're not, I, and I think my, my audience definitely skews Li Quois because mm-hmm. You know, these are the people who are interested in these topics, but I feel like. If everybody were to listen to the conversations we have, which is a conversation just like you, like most of my conversations are very much like what you and I are talking about.
[00:24:42] Mm-hmm. Plus some funny like Turkey baster moments and like stuff thrown in. You know what I mean? Yeah. But like, I think that if more, if we all just kind of like. If we could interlace and, and, and switch and, um, swap audiences or like mix audiences. I think these stories are for everyone.
[00:25:01] Music: Yeah.
[00:25:01] Jaimie Kelton: Um, and we do ourselves a disservice by thinking that, oh, that's for, that's for lesbians.
[00:25:06] That's not, that's not our thing. You know, I think everybody could learn a lot from the conversations that are on my show. And if you wanna be a. Good Ally, come listen to my show.
[00:25:16] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. And there'll be a link in the show notes, don't you worry listeners.
[00:25:19] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. And then talk to your families at Thanksgiving about the interesting things you learned about Liba Qua families at the Thanksgiving dinner table with Yeah.
[00:25:31] You know? Yeah. The uncle
[00:25:32] Casey O'Roarty: well, and something that I perceive from the outside looking in and through my conversations with you and with Ed and with others. Is that, and you've already said it, that that deep importance of community, right? Mm-hmm. In all the ways community shows up, and so many queer parents rely on that chosen family and community to raise kids in a safe and supportive way.
[00:25:57] So talk a little bit more, expand a little bit more on how community comes into play in your life and. What you wish all parents understood about creating collective support? Because I think that for a lot of us, it's a very insular experience. Mm-hmm. Parenting and raising kids and when things go sideways it gets even worse because we don't realize how many other people are facing similar challenges.
[00:26:26] 'cause we're like, oh God, it's just me.
[00:26:28] Jaimie Kelton: Right. So talk
[00:26:29] Casey O'Roarty: a little bit about community
[00:26:30] Jaimie Kelton: or even how many other people could help out in times. Um, I think that, so for community, for us, we have our, we have chosen family, a very close, we have a, another family that are like their, my kids call them aunts. Their aunts, and, and their kid calls us.
[00:26:47] Aunt Jamie and aunt and um, and we do everything together. We go camping, of course, we go camping. I mean, hello. We go, we go camping together. We go on vacations, we rent houses, places together. We've been doing it. Ever since like the kids were born. So my kids have a very strong sense of, of family through them.
[00:27:08] Mm-hmm. Um, which is also especially important because I am, uh, my family is in San Francisco. We live in New York City, so we don't really see my family as often as we see our chosen family. And, and there's a huge network of a bunch of gay moms that are also a part of this chosen family as well. But those, those, those two are the ones we see the most.
[00:27:27] 'cause they actually live in the city with us. Um, and so it's really important and Ann's family is far out too, and, and, and a little on the older side, so they can't help out. So we rely really heavily on. That chosen family. But also what I've noticed, and, and so this is taking it like out of even just the Jeba Qua community, my wife and I are, are actually going through a bit of a crisis right now.
[00:27:52] My wife has, um, breast cancer, um, and has been sorry to drop a bomb if you didn't know that.
[00:27:58] Casey O'Roarty: No, I literally just recorded, I told you before this, with another woman who lives in Manhattan, who's also at the tail end of her breast cancer journey. So.
[00:28:06] Jaimie Kelton: Oh wow. And my husband
[00:28:07] Casey O'Roarty: has multiple myeloma, so this is a safe space to talk about cancer.
[00:28:12] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. Okay. Sorry to, but, so, I mean, we gotta talk about it, but, um, and this is to the point. I'm sorry. This is, thank you. And so I'm sorry to, yeah, so shitty thank cancer. I'm sorry if we No, you
[00:28:24] Casey O'Roarty: can, you can say that here.
[00:28:25] Jaimie Kelton: Okay. But, um, so, you know, we've been on this. Cancer journey chemo and you know, the whole thing.
[00:28:31] So she just finished, she just finished her chemo, so now we're onto the next stage. It's like ongoing, never ending. But we have had to rely very heavily on our mom community, like the mom community at my kids' schools. Right. And many of them are straight moms that are my kids' friends, and they have all really stepped up and they have stepped like I could cry, like the amount of times they have just like a friend will text me, let me pick up Orion for you.
[00:29:01] I know you guys are doing some, dealing with some stuff and it's like, I, I cry, I cry every second. So. Going through this journey, taking away the whole libi quo thing. Mm-hmm. Going through this journey has really opened my eyes to the power of community and chosen family on a much deeper level, and how you can cultivate that even without cancer.
[00:29:26] Right? Like it's, it's accessible. We need to learn to lean on our. I'm, I'm saying parent community because those are the people I see the most. Yeah. I see 'em that drop off and pick up every day. Right. So we need to give ourselves permission to lean a little bit more and to ask our parent community for help if we need it.
[00:29:47] We all need help. We all need help. And we, and we all so stubbornly to, no, no, no. I can do it all. I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. And then, you know, and then we're not good parents to our kids. So if we could all just give ourselves some grace and lean on the parents. That we see out there in the world with the knowing that I'm leaning on you today, that means you get to lean on me next time.
[00:30:11] Right? And then you have this simpatico thing between the two of you, and it's like, brilliant. I've never leaned as heavily on. My community is, I have recently, and it has opened up my eyes to the real concept of chosen family and how it's, it's, it's not just for, you know, it doesn't have to be for this little community.
[00:30:32] It's the whole Yeah. Being
[00:30:33] Casey O'Roarty: world. Yeah. That's been one of the gifts of my husband's diagnosis is recognizing how, how deeply loved we are.
[00:30:44] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah.
[00:30:45] Casey O'Roarty: And how willing, yeah. The people in my life are to, to truly show up. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, I definitely have also gotten better at boundaries with some, yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:31:01] Which has also been a gift too, because it's a little bit like backs up against the wall and I get to say like, Nope, that's not useful. That's not helpful. No, thank you.
[00:31:11] Jaimie Kelton: This is what I'm getting better at too. Yes. Yeah, this is, I'm just starting to notice the things honestly, that aren't helpful. Um, the things like the people who show up versus the people who show up.
[00:31:21] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. You know, or Here's what I'm gonna do for you versus what do you need me to do for you? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Or how about this alternative treatment? No. Oh my God. We're going Western medicine if you have a great recipe to share. Great. Thank you. I don't need your wacky ass suggestion for somebody who, who's been kicked outta the medical field anyway and is on YouTube swearing by.
[00:31:44] Honey and baking powder. Right. Anyway.
[00:31:47] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah, agreed. Oh my God. Same, same. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's not, that's not helpful. Yeah. Let me, let me give you the number of the person, a person I know at another cancer clinic. I'm okay. We're good. Yeah. We got this. Exactly. Yeah. Thank you. We trust our team.
[00:32:02] Yes.
[00:32:02] Casey O'Roarty: And I think when it comes to our, when it's different, you know, like cancer or any kind of. Illness, I think is one doorway. I think when our, you know, thinking about teenagers and, and tweens and or kids in general that are struggling, there's this funny thing where we wanna protect their privacy and people don't know how to respond.
[00:32:23] And so that, I've been so grateful to my daughter specifically, who's been very. Willing, we'll see what she thinks after more therapy and getting into her thirties if she's gonna come back to me and be like, what the actual fuck, mom? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, but she so far has been so generous about sharing her experience of mental health, and I get so much feedback around this helps me understand my kid, the fact that your daughter was willing to share, but it does feel like it can be hard to open up.
[00:32:53] And so having a tight circle already. In these challenging times, I think can kind of bypass that. You don't need to blast it on Facebook. You don't need to make a caring bridge about your kid with depression, but lean on your peeps.
[00:33:10] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. Lean on your people. Yeah. Lean on your people. Yeah. And you'd be surprised at, at who shows up for you.
[00:33:16] And you'd be surprised at who you really develop strong bonds with that you didn't have before. It's really, it's really interesting. Yes. I love that. That's, yeah. Stronger bonds, like mm-hmm. You know, we were, we were, we were cool, but now we're like, we're cool. Yeah. Ride or dice we're tight. Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:33] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah.
[00:33:33] Jaimie Kelton: Um, and I think that, I think that's just an important. Lesson life lesson really, that the, the gift of cancer has given us. So thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:33:55] Casey O'Roarty: So let's talk a little bit more like, I love who you are in the world and what you put out into the world, and just how you are able to express yourself and your energy. What are some myths or assumptions about queer parenthood that you wish you could kind of like right in the sky for everyone else beyond just like, Hey, everyone, we're just like you.
[00:34:19] What are some things that you see maybe showing up in media or. Assumptions just from the people that you have to interact with all the time that show up that you just like to be like, uh, no, this is incorrect.
[00:34:32] Jaimie Kelton: Well, there's one big glaring one, and I don't think any of your listeners think this, but Sure.
[00:34:37] Not apparently there are people out there that think gay parents are groomers like a real, like it's a thing like we, like we make these babies to then either sexually to reproduce the gay population. Either that or to sexually traffic them or to be pedophiles to them ourselves, like we create the babies to do that.
[00:35:00] Like there is a real, I didn't realize it until I was kind of public on social media, but there's a real narrative out there that that's why we have families, and I don't think any of your listeners think this, but that's not true. That's not true at all. Um, like, like, couldn't be further from the truth.
[00:35:21] We are actually some of the most intentional parents you're gonna find out there because it takes us so much work to create these families and it takes a lot of money in many cases to create this family. And I'm not saying we buy our children. I'm not saying, you know, and then there's the other people who say, oh my God, I would never tell my child how much it cost me to make them.
[00:35:43] That's terrible. No, no, no, I'm not. Saying that? Mm-hmm. Like there's a lot of these weird like assumptions about us that we're going like, like I'm telling my daughter all the time, you cost me $20,000, you better get in line. Like, I mean, I do say that sometimes, but like, not like post birth. Yeah. Like for real.
[00:36:01] Not for real. Like, you know, so there is, there is this weird. Like dark web narrative, um, and then they get up in your, um, comments sometimes and say all kinds of crazy stuff. So there's that. And um, I guess for me, and I can't speak for everyone, so I guess for me as a queer parent, I'm an open book and so nothing, it's not taboo.
[00:36:24] And I feel like a lot of people are just trying to be polite and not. Be nosy and not ask questions, but I would like actually prefer you to ask me.
[00:36:32] Music: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:33] Jaimie Kelton: The question, oh, who gave birth to Rose? Oh my. And did, it's her genetics. Can you know, I'm, I actually want you to ask, so that I know, I guess there's a current, there's a theme running that you might notice that I'm, I have high anxiety and I'm worried what they're saying behind closed doors about us, right?
[00:36:51] Mm-hmm. Like. I just wanna know that you're not closing your door and being like, so who do you think gave birth to Rose? Well, who do you think like that grosses me out. Yeah. Like I, I'd rather just tell you. Yeah. And I'm an open book about donor siblings and like all the things that go into how we make our like.
[00:37:06] Come ask me please so that I know you're not talking about me behind my back and making up stories or just even like gossiping and trying to figure it out. Like that grosses me out.
[00:37:16] Music: Yeah.
[00:37:16] Jaimie Kelton: So for me it's like, just please, you know, but also I don't speak for everyone. Sure, sure, sure. So, you know, tread carefully, but also know that making it taboo and like secretive kind of does the opposite of what we're trying to do for our kids.
[00:37:31] Yeah. Which is just to normalize. Our family.
[00:37:35] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. The first thing that you said about grooming, like when I think of queer families or really any kind, like I just think you've had to grow into adulthood with so much bullshit. I imagine that your parenting is already like the baseline of your parenting already is at a level that many people.
[00:37:59] Don't get to right away simply because you've already had the experience. Well, whatever your experience, I mean, I'm making an assumption there, right? Like,
[00:38:06] Jaimie Kelton: I mean, but No, but in, in many cases we know the feeling of being othered. Yeah. That's it. Exactly. Right? Yeah. And so we have empathy to that and so we're not gonna like other our children.
[00:38:15] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah. Yeah. Good job. We can all learn from that one.
[00:38:20] Jaimie Kelton: I think so, because I think people do other their children. Yeah,
[00:38:22] Casey O'Roarty: for sure.
[00:38:23] Jaimie Kelton: Absolutely. I mean, I did say my son is nothing like me, so I don't know if that's othering him, but that's just me being frustrated with how much he pushes back against me.
[00:38:32] Casey O'Roarty: Well, I think, and I don't know if I said it in this conversation or in my last conversation, but that message of acceptance, you know so much with the parents that I work with who are struggling with their teenagers, so much of the struggle comes from this.
[00:38:46] Unspoken, maybe misperceived, probably not messaging around. I'm not okay with you. Right. I'm not okay with you right now. Mm-hmm.
[00:38:57] Music: You
[00:38:57] Casey O'Roarty: know, we might not say that out loud explicitly to our kiddos, but there's so many facial expressions and language and ques and things that we do and say that basically come back to.
[00:39:11] I'm not okay with who you are right now. Right. It's giving, it's making me worried. I'm scared, I'm, I'm embarrassed, I'm, you know, all these things. And so I think if you didn't come up in a space where the world is already, you know, giving that message. Then it's hard to tune in, to recognize and tune your frequency to, to realize like, oh yeah, I want my kid out to, I feel like we're gonna raise a generation of world changers when we can figure out the formula for creating a space where everybody feels accepted and loved.
[00:39:46] Yeah. Right. And believed in and trusted.
[00:39:49] Jaimie Kelton: Mm.
[00:39:50] Casey O'Roarty: So
[00:39:51] Jaimie Kelton: yes, I agree with you and I am raising my kids to be upstanders, not bystanders. Um, you know, because I know what it feels like, like I said, to be othered or, or, you know, made feel less than, but at the same time, so I, I don't wanna like blow too much steam up my butt here because at the same time I am definitely guilty of like my 11-year-old.
[00:40:12] Like, there are certain things that we hold dear, like honesty. Yeah. And, um, and Upfrontness, which is a kind of honesty. And so I am definitely guilty of what you just said. Like, I don't like, you know, I don't like who you're being right now because mm-hmm. That my displeasure in who you are right now is very much showing through because you lied to me.
[00:40:34] Right. Right. So, um,
[00:40:35] Casey O'Roarty: well there's that, and then there's, I'm not okay with who you are as a person. Right. Yeah. I mean, 'cause I think that also can get subtly messaged.
[00:40:45] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. No, and I think that, and I think it is such a thin line, especially as these kids start getting into puberty and they're getting more sensitive.
[00:40:52] Yeah. Because like we are raising them with full acceptance. Like, you can be whoever you want, you know, as long as you're a kind person in the world. And, and we will love you no matter what. And we say this and I tell, we tell my daughter now that she's getting older, there is nothing you could do. Nothing you could do a, that would make us not love you anymore.
[00:41:10] And B, that would shock us 'cause we've done it all. So like there's nothing you can do. She doesn't come
[00:41:16] Casey O'Roarty: back with What about, because my son will be like, oh yeah, what about if I murder a bunch of people?
[00:41:20] Jaimie Kelton: Uhhuh? Yeah, she does. Or she or I was like, and 'cause we've done it all, she's, and and then she'll be like, like drugs.
[00:41:25] Like what? Drugs? Like what do you mean what drugs? Like this? And I'm like, how do you even know what that is? She'll like mimic a drug. I'm like, how? I'm sorry, wait a second. So then, you know, then you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Who are you hanging out with? Right? So yeah. Whatcha are you watching?
[00:41:39] I don't
[00:41:39] Casey O'Roarty: know. Yeah. Yeah. I've told this story. One particular thing came up with my son who shares everything with me, which is awesome. And. Awful. Yeah. And I said, and I was really grounded through the whole thing. And I said, I don't want you to be confused by this calm external, because inside I am like, holy shit.
[00:42:01] That was a gigantic risk that I would've hoped. You never would take. Right? He was like, I know, I know, I know mom. You know, but I had
[00:42:09] Jaimie Kelton: to just clarify, like, don't be confused, don't get it twisted. Um, but also to the thin line here, right? So silly little thing. My daughter switched to middle school and she got.
[00:42:22] Amazing grades the whole year. We were like slightly shocked and like, oh, whoa, whoa. Like all A's. And then one report card came and they have to take drama in this school, in their sixth grade class. And that's, uh, me, I am mus, I am a musical theater major. Like that's what I did before children. And she, the one B she got was in Drama Dare She.
[00:42:44] I know. So I was, I just made jokes about it, like, oh my God. And so when people would come over, oh yeah. Straight A's. Except drama, like joking though. But I come to find out that some of that she took to heart a little bit, even though I was totally joking. But you know that that's where that thin line is, especially with these sensitive.
[00:43:04] Little souls. Yeah. And I had to clarify like, no, no, no. I, I don't care. I don't care what grade you get. I, we, you know, we know you're working hard as long as you're working hard. We don't even care what grade you get. Yeah. But yeah, it's a dance that the Yeah. And there's no perfect.
[00:43:19] Casey O'Roarty: And we all, like, I appreciate you coming clean, but.
[00:43:22] Yeah. We're all actually human beings doing the best we can with the tools we have in the moment that we're in. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, I appreciate that. So you mentioned honesty. What are some other values, just wrapping up here, what are some other values that you're anchoring into as you raise your kids in this ever evolving climate?
[00:43:44] Jaimie Kelton: Um, yeah, I mean, honesty, kindness, work hard. I mean, the motto that Ann likes to say a lot is work hard and be kind. That's, that's all we care about. Um. Mm-hmm. And be upstanders, not bystanders. Um, stand up for the people who need the standing up for. Yeah. And that's it. Really. Try hard, work hard. Yeah. And be happy.
[00:44:11] Try your best to be hap. Find your happiness. Find your joy. Yeah. And I think that's really like the main tenets of our. Family life, we want them to do well, but not at the expense of their joy or their wellbeing.
[00:44:28] Casey O'Roarty: Mm-hmm. So. I think that's, mm-hmm. I have a funny, can I share a little story? Yeah. Uhhuh. So, God bless my littlest brother.
[00:44:35] He's 18 years younger than me and my stepmom. I love, I love, I love them both so much. And one time they were walking back, I was visiting and my little brother had just been in a regatta, in a sailboat race.
[00:44:50] Jaimie Kelton: Mm.
[00:44:50] Casey O'Roarty: These little sailboats in, in California. Mm-hmm. Where we lived. And I said, oh, how'd you do? And he's like, Matt came in last.
[00:44:58] I said, oh, but you had, did you have fun? And he kind of starts nodding and my stepmom goes, well, we decided that winning is actually the best way to have the best time. Oh, oh. And I was like, Jesus. Oh dear. Oh, right. That's what it's like here. Oh my God. That's why I keep going to therapy, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:45:21] Wow.
[00:45:21] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah, we're not, no, my daughter was in a track all of a sudden. She's like, I'm, I'm trying out for basketball today. I'm trying not for track. I'm, we're like, it's coming outta nowhere. So she had a track meet and she was, had to, I don't know. She came in last uhhuh. She came home, I, 'cause I couldn't go to the track meet and she came home and she was tell, oh yeah, I came in last.
[00:45:40] I was like, oh. Oh, okay. Oh, well I don't care. I actually, I just like started walking at one point. 'cause I was like, nah. Okay. Alright. Okay. And as long as we're happy with that o Okey dokey.
[00:45:54] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, I played a lot of sports, but I always got like most inspirational. Right. Most improved. Never like MVP. I just loved
[00:46:04] Jaimie Kelton: being on the team.
[00:46:05] Casey O'Roarty: Right.
[00:46:06] Jaimie Kelton: Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, I never ever played sports and so I just give her kudos for even like having the guts to do it. 'cause I never had the guts ever. Yeah. So, you know. Yeah. Beautiful. Good for her.
[00:46:17] Casey O'Roarty: Well, Jamie, I have one last question for you, and I'm pretty sure I asked it last time when I had you and Ed on, but I'm gonna ask it again 'cause today's a new day.
[00:46:27] What does joyful courage mean to you and your family?
[00:46:31] Jaimie Kelton: Oh God. Well, just to piggyback of off of the story I just told about Rose, um, to have the courage to do the thing and to do it with joy and to find the joy in doing the thing and to find the joy in ha finding the courage to do the dang thing in the first place, that's joyful courage to me.
[00:46:52] Yeah. Love that. Thank you.
[00:46:54] Casey O'Roarty: Yeah, thank you. Where can people find you and follow your work?
[00:46:58] Jaimie Kelton: Uh, I'm the Queer Family Podcast on all podcasting platforms, so you can find us there. We also have YouTube episodes. Go over there and follow us there 'cause we could use the love. There's a lot of trolls on YouTube.
[00:47:08] Um, of course. Yeah, so Gross and I am on social media. Like all the channels at the Queer Family Podcast, I really like had to choose the longest name for every single handle. It's even the email is the Queer Family [email protected]. So yeah, that's, you can find me at all over and the queer family podcast.com.
[00:47:30] Perfect.
[00:47:31] Casey O'Roarty: Perfect. Listeners, I'll make sure all those links are in the show notes on the website. Jamie, thank you so much for hanging out with me today. This was lovely. Thank you.
[00:47:40] Jaimie Kelton: This was so awesome. Thanks so much, Casey.
[00:47:47] Casey O'Roarty: Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to my Sprout partners, Julietta and Alana. Thank you, Danielle, for supporting with the show notes as well as Chris Mann and the team at Pod Shaper for all the support with getting the show out there and making it sound good. As I mentioned, sharing is caring. If you're willing to pass on this episode to others or take a few minutes to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it helps other parents find this useful content.
[00:48:14] Be sure to check out what we have going on for parents. Of kids of all ages and sign up for our newsletter to stay [email protected]. I see you doing all the things. I believe in you. See you next time.